Curious Why NB 1H&S DPS Is Low?

Vaerth

I have been told it is not any good to use 1H&S as DPS. I am just curious why? If a NB is running full medium armor, full stamina attributes, and si not using the taunt skill, then why does it not work? Can NB stamina class morphs not fill the skills for the damage? What makes it so much worse than 2H and DW? My skills are the same for the most part with Stamblade, so I generally was wondering what it is able the weapon line that makes it no good for a DPS to use? I understand it is not viable, I just seek to know why is all lol.

Mettaricana

The skills are slow and dont do crap for dmg if your a rotation god yeah can hit 40k dps but overall its dps is kinda crap

Berenhir

No damage bonus in SnB skill line, no sufficient weapon damage bonus from equipping SnB, no crit bonus from SnB.

DocFrost72

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

codestripper

I mean...It is viable for content you can make it viable in. If you can get 30-40k DPS with that setup then by all means go into vet trials, nobody will complain just look at you funny. You're missing a lot of free damage with the DW tree but that's about it.

Vaerth

Mettaricana wrote: »

The skills are slow and dont do crap for dmg if your a rotation god yeah can hit 40k dps but overall its dps is kinda crap

So it is the skills used for the weapon line that cause issues?

My guess was maybe that light and heavy attacks are way weaker than with DW and 2H or something along those lines lol. I love 1H&S but tanking is not for me yet, I am not skills enough / knowledgeable enough to have others rely on me

DocFrost72

Berenhir wrote: »

No damage bonus in SnB skill line, no sufficient weapon damage bonus from equipping SnB, no crit bonus from SnB.

Not strictly true. You get a percent dmg bonus from the sword and board passive. The effect is the same though, still lower base dmg from s&s than dw.

Vaerth

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

Vaerth

codestripper wrote: »

I mean...It is viable for content you can make it viable in. If you can get 30-40k DPS with that setup then by all means go into vet trials, nobody will complain just look at you funny. You're missing a lot of free damage with the DW tree but that's about it.

Oh no that makes sense I get it, I will no slow a team down because of my desired playstyle. I wish it was different with ESO but it is what it is lol.

Vaerth

Berenhir wrote: »

No damage bonus in SnB skill line, no sufficient weapon damage bonus from equipping SnB, no crit bonus from SnB.

All this info from you and others comments really helps clear up why it is not very good to use. Thank you kindly for the input!

DocFrost72

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

Oakmontowls_ESO

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

The difference is that you have no room to improve. If you are hitting 40k dps with S&B you aren't going to get much higher practicing. Now if you are doing 40k dps with DW then you can still improve another 10k+ by practicing.

codestripper

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

The difference is that you have no room to improve. If you are hitting 40k dps with S&B you aren't going to get much higher practicing. Now if you are doing 40k dps with DW then you can still improve another 10k+ by practicing.

The thing is, you can do all end game content perfectly fine at 40kdps....so I mean, you really don't need to get the extra 10k. That's what you sacrifice to have a S&B with all it's benefits. Oh well lol. If that's how the dude wants to play then let them play.

Vaerth

codestripper wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

The difference is that you have no room to improve. If you are hitting 40k dps with S&B you aren't going to get much higher practicing. Now if you are doing 40k dps with DW then you can still improve another 10k+ by practicing.

The thing is, you can do all end game content perfectly fine at 40kdps....so I mean, you really don't need to get the extra 10k. That's what you sacrifice to have a S&B with all it's benefits. Oh well lol. If that's how the dude wants to play then let them play.

I just do not want to burden others because of my desire to play with a shield

I was thinking perhaps I could build it more of a DPS / support roll. Offering heals / buffs to my team to help with slightly less DPS? Who knows

Vaerth

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

Do you think people would get mad or boot me for using a DPS / Support 1H&S NB? I am sure some would tolerate it, but I just do not want to be burdening anyone for my own desire to have a shield lol.

codestripper

Vaerth wrote: »

Do you think people would get mad or boot me for using a DPS / Support 1H&S NB? I am sure some would tolerate it, but I just do not want to be burdening anyone for my own desire to have a shield lol.

As long as you can DPS, you'll be fine....well and as long as you don't start taunting things. People only care if you pull your weight as your role.

Oakmontowls_ESO

Vaerth wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Loss of damage oriented weapon passives, crit/bleed damage from weapon type, soon to be halved enchant potency, and loss of dots (cleave/twin slashes).

That said...

You can pull good dps from a nb with sword and shield. You will be behind say, the same exact character with dw or 2h front bar, but the loss is manageable and you can be viable for all but score runs. Post build (if you have one)?

Thank you for the info! (I noticed you love to troll)

It's a wonderful hobby. I try to keep build info serious though. As proof:

That was on the pts around a year or more ago. That level of dps passes the requirements (current) of my trials team. That character was an argonian (no dmg bonus from passives whatsoever) and did not have access to gold armor OR relequen (as relequen wasn't even a thing then). I am confident a nightblade with a good rotation could, nowadays, get up as high as 40k or even more dps. That, in perspective, is enough to slam vet dungeons and trials. As @codestripper said though, you're going to get judgmental looks, and you won't be picked for score runs. All up to you, really.

Also don't get hooked on the "letting my team down" if you're pulling 40k self buffed. Trust me, if you try a random PUG or two, you'll see what I mean.

The difference is that you have no room to improve. If you are hitting 40k dps with S&B you aren't going to get much higher practicing. Now if you are doing 40k dps with DW then you can still improve another 10k+ by practicing.

The thing is, you can do all end game content perfectly fine at 40kdps....so I mean, you really don't need to get the extra 10k. That's what you sacrifice to have a S&B with all it's benefits. Oh well lol. If that's how the dude wants to play then let them play.

I just do not want to burden others because of my desire to play with a shield

I was thinking perhaps I could build it more of a DPS / support roll. Offering heals / buffs to my team to help with slightly less DPS? Who knows

That doesn't really work, in trials buffing and healing is only a support role job (tank healer). Have you tried just building your character into a more dps orientated tank? It wont really work for vet trials but should be decent for 4man content. If you are hard set on being a buff dps character, you can look into sets like war machine in conjunction with the ult Incapacitating strike.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Vaerth wrote: »

I have been told it is not any good to use 1H&S as DPS. I am just curious why? If a NB is running full medium armor, full stamina attributes, and si not using the taunt skill, then why does it not work? Can NB stamina class morphs not fill the skills for the damage? What makes it so much worse than 2H and DW? My skills are the same for the most part with Stamblade, so I generally was wondering what it is able the weapon line that makes it no good for a DPS to use? I understand it is not viable, I just seek to know why is all lol.

Don't listen some elitists above who cannot do more than 20K away from the dummy.

As long as you use bow in 2nd bar, for the endless hail, poison arrow and caltrops which are half your dps, first qbar can be S&B. And especially Charged Mace/Hammer + Shield with damage depending usage. For PVP oblivion for PVE something relevant (but not disease as you overlap with skills).

As NB (like templars) you have access to a spammable that doing Physical damage, and major fracture. Thats Surprise Attack. Mix heavy attack with it on weaving and you will hit hard.
Then you have access to an execute, Killer Blade.

Gear. Everyone would say typical Relequen + AY which is OK if you can make it work. (which are circumstantial away from dummies)

If you feel that you are trying hard to keep the stacks up, or your character is lacking on trash fights, I suggest try Automaton instead of AY and Briarheart instead of Relequen if your crit is 70%+, otherwise something like Blood Moon or the new upcoming Tzogvin’s. Might seem weird pointing to another stack set, however it has 10 seconds stack not 5 seconds stack. It would be easier to maintain.

Helmet any damage one but Slimecraw as you get Minor Beserk from class skill.
Mundus depends your needs. Regen, Damage or Crit you do not need penetration one as you have Surprise Attack & Mace.

Oakmontowls_ESO

p_tsakirisb16_ESO wrote: »

Vaerth wrote: »

I have been told it is not any good to use 1H&S as DPS. I am just curious why? If a NB is running full medium armor, full stamina attributes, and si not using the taunt skill, then why does it not work? Can NB stamina class morphs not fill the skills for the damage? What makes it so much worse than 2H and DW? My skills are the same for the most part with Stamblade, so I generally was wondering what it is able the weapon line that makes it no good for a DPS to use? I understand it is not viable, I just seek to know why is all lol.

Don't listen some elitists above who cannot do more than 20K away from the dummy.

As long as you use bow in 2nd bar, for the endless hail, poison arrow and caltrops which are half your dps, first qbar can be S&B. And especially Charged Mace/Hammer + Shield with damage depending usage. For PVP oblivion for PVE something relevant (but not disease as you overlap with skills).

As NB (like templars) you have access to a spammable that doing Physical damage, and major fracture. Thats Surprise Attack. Mix heavy attack with it on weaving and you will hit hard.
Then you have access to an execute, Killer Blade.

Gear. Everyone would say typical Relequen + AY which is OK if you can make it work. (which are circumstantial away from dummies)

If you feel that you are trying hard to keep the stacks up, or your character is lacking on trash fights, I suggest try Automaton instead of AY and Briarheart instead of Relequen if your crit is 70%+, otherwise something like Blood Moon or the new upcoming Tzogvin’s. Might seem weird pointing to another stack set, however it has 10 seconds stack not 5 seconds stack. It would be easier to maintain.

Helmet any damage one but Slimecraw as you get Minor Beserk from class skill.
Mundus depends your needs. Regen, Damage or Crit you do not need penetration one as you have Surprise Attack & Mace.

So first of all you'd have to be really bad to do less than 20k away from a dummy (except in certain fights). Secondly mace/dagger/sword/axe doesn't matter for S&B. You also have not mentioned one of the most important skills for a night blade, Grim focus. You also should be building for a light attack build not a heavy attack one. Rele+AY is only circumstantial in that it is pure single target dps(which is what stam focuses on in trials). I would not suggest Automaton as that will only buff physical damage and not Poison injection, killer's blade, relentless focus(grim focus morph), Incapacitating strike, and Power extraction (if for some reason you are running it for aoe). Also Briar heart is going to lose to Hundings rage unless you have the maximum up time possible. I don't really have any opinions on blood moon or Tzogvin. As for helmet the "best" is probably Velidreth

russelmmendoza

Me too I want a snb nightblade.
But I can only do 15k dps with snb nb.
I guess my rotation suck.

Would it be too much to get damage bonus for snb.
Give snb weapon bonus like the dw.
Give nightblade a cc like dk talons.

Royaji

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Would it be too much to get damage bonus for snb.
Give snb weapon bonus like the dw.
Give nightblade a cc like dk talons.

Yes, yes and yes.

One-handed and shield is a defensive weapon. You do not put offensive bonuses on defensive weapons since you then defeat the point of offensive weapons. It also gets bonus resistances from shield that dual-wield does not have. Nightblades already have a very strong toolkit and a wide variety of skills other classes do not have. Time Stop is your non-DK version of AoE lockdown.

russelmmendoza

Is the psijic ability only for those who own summerset?

Oakmontowls_ESO

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Is the psijic ability only for those who own summerset?

Yes

TimeWizard

s&b isn't built to be a dps weapon, just like restoration staff isn't built to be a dps weapon. They are defensive/support weapons. While you can create a build that will do sufficient dps to complete most content, you will always be better off with dual wield/2-hand and bow. If you want to run pvp rather than pve there are many builds that utilize the defensiveness of s&b, but in pve s&b is only used by tanks.

SoLooney

Cause sword and board is meant to tank and defend, not put out a crap ton of dps.

Why would there be other skill lines if sword and board can dps along with defending?

firedrgn

Man the screams if you could shield block and dps .

Vaerth

For me, using s shield in combat is simple logic. I get that this is a game, but I would not go to war or battle with a huge, slow, 2H weapon. I would not DW either, was that serves very little usage compared to a shield. I get that in a game thing are not the same. I understand that. If you have a weapon in one hand, does it really matter? I mean, you are getting bite by the blade then smash in the face by the shield, seems to make sense to me. Tell Spartans that shields are no good, see how that goes I loved watch 300 a while back, sword slash, skull bashing shield hits, was epic. I guess I thought it would make sense to slash and bash in ESO, as I kind of figured it was meant to be viable anyway you like lol. Getting kicked from groups in PvE for using a shield would suck, but then again there are many elitist in online games. I would just entirely skip dungeons and enjoy solo / co op gameplay but then I do not get the cool gear or see the story / achievements. The lack os real customization for builds in ESO makes it hard to enjoy playing or doing well. That is what I have come up with at least lol. I can play boring builds that are not me, and do well. Or I can play the way I like and get kicked for trying another way lol.

Bladerunner1

Use a Nirn 1H weapon since that's the last trait on the list that isn't getting halved in a month. Maybe run a double poison if you want to max out DPS, otherwise you're only dropping rending slashes and replacing it with yet another fighters guild ability to gain yet another weapon damage modifier. You could use an extra surprise attack in your rotation or slot heroic slash for more ult regen, or slot power extraction for aoe/major brutality. It can do above and beyond any DPS requirements short of getting high on a leaderboard.

Vaerth

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

Use a Nirn 1H weapon since that's the last trait on the list that isn't getting halved in a month. Maybe run a double poison if you want to max out DPS, otherwise you're only dropping rending slashes and replacing it with yet another fighters guild ability to gain yet another weapon damage modifier. You could use an extra surprise attack in your rotation or slot heroic slash for more ult regen, or slot power extraction for aoe/major brutality. It can do above and beyond any DPS requirements short of getting high on a leaderboard.

Really? That does not sound bad at all. I could care less about leader boards, I just want to be a support DPS that can hold my own. In and out of Dungeons. I do not PvP in this game, and I will not since I last did 3 years ago and found it to be so very boring and terrible lol. I am really wish to try this out now, but my fear is not that I can't make a viable build, more I am worried i will get kicked for running a shield. I wanted to try out 1H&S Front bar and Bow on back bar.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Viable is very relative. Could a 60K Stamblade make a few adjustments to his rotation (they really only use rending slashes), slot a S+B and pull viable DPS for most content? Abso-freakin-lutely .

BUT (there is always a but) they are going to be taking a big damage loss. They are losing a DOT, an enchant, weapon damage, and a host of damage passives from the DW line. So for the vast majority of situations, the question becomes, why would anyone do this? The other thing to consider is that if you are an average or below average DPS with DW weapons, the hit might be too much for you to handle.

But hey, give it a go. Build it, test it, and practice the crap out of it. If you can get to the point where you are pulling 30k or so on a dummy, knock yourself out. If you cant, stay out of vet groupfinder (you can do darn near anything in normal and get away with it). 30k might seem high to some people, but queuing as a DPS with a S+B is going to draw attention, so you probably want a bit of a buffer.