DPS Comparison of RACES on MagPlar on PTS4.3.0 (Tests, Graphs, and Analysis)

Seraphayel

ck37090 wrote: »

My question.. who the heck decided to make the Khajit a premiere magica race? They mostly kept existing themes with all other races (albiet they completely removed the dark elf from what WAS their main niche) ... But seriously... Why did they decide to make the Khajit the biggest damage dealer in Magicka and stamina? I just don't get where their heads are at

In almost no combination is Khajiit the top for Magicka/Stamina. It parses very good for both in most cases but it hardly is the best race for either of the two.

@HatchetHaro I agree on some parts but I think you're not totally right when you say that every race needs a "DPS identity". This isn't right now the case and it won't be in the future. If we go by that the defensive/support racials of Nord and Argonian need to be scrapped (not bringing up Imperials, they might be the only race needing a small buff). I could live with a small buff for Argonian DPS when one of their other "non DPS racials" gets a bit weaker in exchange. I mean even the brought up 6% difference from best racials to no racials at all is a quite minor difference in the end, the 1-2% aren't even worth mentioning.

And some are acting like this game is 90% min-maxer top raiders and 10% casuals. At best it's vice versa, if at all. We're talking about potential issues here that might not even apply to 0.1% of the playerbase.

Somewhere

ck37090 wrote: »

My question.. who the heck decided to make the Khajit a premiere magica race? They mostly kept existing themes with all other races (albiet they completely removed the dark elf from what WAS their main niche) ... But seriously... Why did they decide to make the Khajit the biggest damage dealer in Magicka and stamina? I just don't get where their heads are at

I have always felt someone at ZOS really likes Khajiit. I feel like there's always at least a Khajiit somewhere in the crown shop showing things off, or maybe I'm just noticing something that's not there. I think ultimately if they want to keep Khajiit as a "jack of all trades" that critical rate needs to reduced to a smaller number like 4 - 5%. These people asking for increased sustain on the Khajiit, but there's really no need for them to be the best at everything.

I did testing on Magicka Sorcerer and came to the same conclusion: Khajiit simply has the best damage out of all of the magicka inclined races, and I really don't think that's healthy for the game if they were going for balance.

ck37090

Seraphayel wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

My question.. who the heck decided to make the Khajit a premiere magica race? They mostly kept existing themes with all other races (albiet they completely removed the dark elf from what WAS their main niche) ... But seriously... Why did they decide to make the Khajit the biggest damage dealer in Magicka and stamina? I just don't get where their heads are at

In almost no combination is Khajiit the top for Magicka/Stamina. It parses very good for both in most cases but it hardly is the best race for either of the two.

@HatchetHaro I agree on some parts but I think you're not totally right when you say that every race needs a "DPS identity". This isn't right now the case and it won't be in the future. If we go by that the defensive/support racials of Nord and Argonian need to be scrapped (not bringing up Imperials, they might be the only race needing a small buff). I could live with a small buff for Argonian DPS when one of their other "non DPS racials" gets a bit weaker in exchange. I mean even the brought up 6% difference from best racials to no racials at all is a quite minor difference in the end, the 1-2% aren't even worth mentioning.

And some are acting like this game is 90% min-maxer top raiders and 10% casuals. At best it's vice versa, if at all. We're talking about potential issues here that might not even apply to 0.1% of the playerbase.

I didn't say best. .I said premiere.. Just meaning they are one of the best choices... They are the only race that can be one of the better picks for DPS either way... They were a stamina focused race... Why did they decide to make them really good for both? Imo they should be a top pick for stamina DPS... But this idea to give them equally great Magicka a DPS makes no sense

Seraphayel

ck37090 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

ck37090 wrote: »

My question.. who the heck decided to make the Khajit a premiere magica race? They mostly kept existing themes with all other races (albiet they completely removed the dark elf from what WAS their main niche) ... But seriously... Why did they decide to make the Khajit the biggest damage dealer in Magicka and stamina? I just don't get where their heads are at

In almost no combination is Khajiit the top for Magicka/Stamina. It parses very good for both in most cases but it hardly is the best race for either of the two.

@HatchetHaro I agree on some parts but I think you're not totally right when you say that every race needs a "DPS identity". This isn't right now the case and it won't be in the future. If we go by that the defensive/support racials of Nord and Argonian need to be scrapped (not bringing up Imperials, they might be the only race needing a small buff). I could live with a small buff for Argonian DPS when one of their other "non DPS racials" gets a bit weaker in exchange. I mean even the brought up 6% difference from best racials to no racials at all is a quite minor difference in the end, the 1-2% aren't even worth mentioning.

And some are acting like this game is 90% min-maxer top raiders and 10% casuals. At best it's vice versa, if at all. We're talking about potential issues here that might not even apply to 0.1% of the playerbase.

I didn't say best. .I said premiere.. Just meaning they are one of the best choices... They are the only race that can be one of the better picks for DPS either way... They were a stamina focused race... Why did they decide to make them really good for both? Imo they should be a top pick for stamina DPS... But this idea to give them equally great Magicka a DPS makes no sense

Well they did the same with Dunmer, making Khajiit and Dunmer the most versatile races - which fits the racial lore imho. Both races are very capable of magic and melee combat. I think it's a good way to improve both of them. But this might be a bit bias because I'm playing a Magicka Khajiit and finally I am able to represent that due to lore and racials.

Tabbycat

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

From a lore perspective, Khajiit should never be the best magicka users, ever. Altmer should. Every TES fan knows this.

As a TES fan, I'm disappointed and sad that ZOS is ignoring racial lore so much. I can only hope they redeem themselves with better lore friendly balancing before this goes live.

Not every TES fan knows that Alfiq, Dagi and Dagi-raht are spellcasters, apparently. And Alfiq will be introduced in the upcoming Elsweyr chapter as NPCs. So yes, khajiits are pretty much magic users too.

But those breeds are not featured prominantly as playable in the TES series.

For example, the Morrowind description of Khajiit, as follows from the UESP wiki:

Khajiit are cat-like people who come from Elsweyr, known for high intelligence and agility. These traits make them very good thieves and acrobats, but Khajiit are also fearsome warriors. However, they are rarely known to be mages. Khajiit mostly stay on land, but piracy and skooma trade does draw some to work as sailors.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Khajiit

ZOS, in their justification - right from the horse's mouth for you - specifically stated that new racials try to encompass the whole racial diversity of khajiits. I don't know what else is to be said. That's pretty much self-explanatory.

When Todd Howard himself says all breeds of Khajiit are as adept at magic as Altmer, then I'll accept it as lore. Until then, I'm treating it like Battlespire.

Ravena

Khajiit have always been able mages.

Morrowind had cat mages, Oblivion had cat mages [and advanced trainers], Skyrim has Jzargo [strongest mage NPC in the whole game]

It only makes sense they are able to be magicka characters now, too.

Commancho

I think this is balanced
Khajit - trials / pvp short fights - best burst damage, ganker and damage when sustained by big group <stam/mag DD>
Altmer - solo, dungeons, trials, arenas, pvp long fight - best sustain <mag DD>
Breton - solo, dungeons, trials, arenas, pvp long fight - best sustain and perfect healer
Dunmer - solo, dungeons, trials, arenas, pvp - best hybrid <stam/mag DD>

MLGProPlayer

Ravena wrote: »

Khajiit have always been able mages.

Morrowind had cat mages, Oblivion had cat mages [and advanced trainers], Skyrim has Jzargo [strongest mage NPC in the whole game]

It only makes sense they are able to be magicka characters now, too.

Lore-wise, Altmer, Dunmer, and Breton are the magically-inclined races. Anyone can be a powerful mage, but those 3 are the most naturally gifted. Khajiit are definitely not a magically-inclined race in the lore, certainly no more than any of the other remaining races.

Faulgor

Hallothiel wrote: »

nsmurfer wrote: »

Tabbycat wrote: »

From a lore perspective, Khajiit should never be the best magicka users, ever. Altmer should. Every TES fan knows this.

As a TES fan, I'm disappointed and sad that ZOS is ignoring racial lore so much. I can only hope they redeem themselves with better lore friendly balancing before this goes live.

We don't have as much Khajiit lore as other races. How many Khajiit named heroes do we even know of? We mostly knwo about their birthcycle, religious system and general way of life. As for info on specific, we don't have them. I bet that is going to change. ALso BTW, J'zargo, a Khajiit was the strongest mage follower in the game(literally stat and level wise) he went above Lv 200 which is more than any other follower.

Ah you mention J’zargo, my favourite companion & kick ass warrior mage. Who says Khajiit can’t be good at magic?!

Of course they can. Everybody can. But then you have an issue justifying why Nords can't be top magicka DPS when they have Shalidor and the College of Winterhold, or why Argonians aren't good stamina DPS when Shadowscales exist, and so on and so forth.