This is How to Fix Snare and Immobilize Spam

GrumpyDuckling

Snares, Immobilizes, and Stuns are now considered Major/Minor debuffs. This would create consistency in their application and operation, effectively creating immunity windows that mean when a player becomes snared or immobilized, they are immune to snare or immobilize for [x] seconds (the same way stun works).

Snares

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 10% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

Immobilizes

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Stupefy, immobilizing them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Stupefy and Minor Stupefy share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

Stuns

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Paralysis, stunning them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Paralysis, stunning them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Paralysis and Minor Paralysis share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

This covers the framework for mobility debuffs, and the next step would be up to ZOS to determine which current skills/sets would apply the Major effects, and which skills/sets should apply the Minor effects.

Edit: Reworded for clarity

Grimlok_S

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Applying Major/Minor debuffs to Snares, Immobilizes, and Stuns would create consistency in their application and operation as counters to mobility buffs. The framework would look something like this:

Snares

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 70% for 4 seconds. This affect can be broken by cleanse, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 50% for 4 seconds. This affect can be broken by cleanse, and has a 6 second cooldown.

Immobilizes

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 6 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleanse, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleanse, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Stupefy and Minor Stupefy share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

Stuns

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Paralysis, stunning them for 6 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Paralysis, stunning them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Paralysis and Minor Paralysis share the same cooldown animation, and cannot be stacked on one another.

FTFY

Alfie2072

correct me if im wrong, but are you saying these things should be in the game to counter mobility? because mobility isnt in a very good place right now, its the worst its ever been, i could be reading this wrong though

GrumpyDuckling

Alfie2072 wrote: »

correct me if im wrong, but are you saying these things should be in the game to counter mobility? because mobility isnt in a very good place right now, its the worst its ever been, i could be reading this wrong though

This is a nerf to the current state of snares and immobilizes (it helps speed).

Basically, with this framework, snares and immobilizes have flat values and there would be an immunity period to them (just like stun currently has... meaning that after you get snared or immobilized, there is a window in which you cannot get snared or immobilized again until the time of the window is up). This would prevent players from just casting snares and immobilizes repeatedly, and reapplying them immediately. The person casting the snare and/or immobilize would have to be smart about doing so (like we currently do with stuns).

Edit: I reworded the original post to more clearly state the intent.

lueckgenb16_ESO

Is there actually anything like diminishing returns in this game?

Im thinking about things like this:

Player is recieving a first snare: ability works for x seconds
Player is recieving a second snare within like 5 seconds after the first snare wore off: ability works for x-50% seconds
Player is recieving a third snare within like 5 seconds after the second snare wore off: ability works for x-75% seconds
Player is recieving a fourth snare within like 5 seconds after the third snare wore off: ability works for x-100% seconds

So now the player is immune to snares for 5 seconds wich automatically leads to a new "first snare".

Same could work with stuns, immobilize etc.

Means that you guarantee that a player is not outplayed just by spamming cc.

Im not really sure how it works atm it just ran through my head because I've seen it in other games.
I did not read every forum post regarding this "movement issue" so please don't kill me guys if someone already stated something like this. (but I feel movement is broken right now and will be even worse with wreathstone)

Interested in your thoughts.

Kadoin

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Snares, Immobilizes, and Stuns are now considered Major/Minor debuffs. This would create consistency in their application and operation, effectively creating immunity windows that mean when a player becomes snared or immobilized, they are immune to snare or immobilize for [x] seconds (the same way stun works).

Snares

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 10% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

Immobilizes

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Stupefy, immobilizing them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Stupefy and Minor Stupefy share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

Stuns

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Paralysis, stunning them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Paralysis, stunning them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Paralysis and Minor Paralysis share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

This covers the framework for mobility debuffs, and the next step would be up to ZOS to determine which current skills/sets would apply the Major effects, and which skills/sets should apply the Minor effects.

Edit: Reworded for clarity

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

lueckgenb16_ESO

Kadoin wrote: »

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

You should equip for things like this. And if you are in light armor in the frontline without friends defending you, you made a mistake. Im sorry to say that and I don't wanna stomp on you or something, but your issue has nothing to do with the movement problems this game has at the moment.

Alfie2072

Kadoin wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Snares, Immobilizes, and Stuns are now considered Major/Minor debuffs. This would create consistency in their application and operation, effectively creating immunity windows that mean when a player becomes snared or immobilized, they are immune to snare or immobilize for [x] seconds (the same way stun works).

Snares

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 10% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

Immobilizes

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Stupefy, immobilizing them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Stupefy and Minor Stupefy share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

Stuns

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Paralysis, stunning them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Paralysis, stunning them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Paralysis and Minor Paralysis share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

This covers the framework for mobility debuffs, and the next step would be up to ZOS to determine which current skills/sets would apply the Major effects, and which skills/sets should apply the Minor effects.

Edit: Reworded for clarity

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

you should kill him because he has given up so much to be able to have max speed, accessory traits, mundas, race, potion, gear sets
dont quite understand why you would do nothing, this comment didnt really make sense, its kind of hinting your a complete glass cannon which in that case you burst him by the time he reaches you

Kadoin

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

You should equip for things like this. And if you are in light armor in the frontline without friends defending you, you made a mistake. Im sorry to say that and I don't wanna stomp on you or something, but your issue has nothing to do with the movement problems this game has at the moment.

You're funny. That dismissal is equivalent to me saying your movement problems have nothing to do with me because you can slot heavy and simply walk as slow as you want until you gap close. Now you can pretend that's not the case, but considering I do that on my stam chars, I'm pretty certain that's a "counter" to the snare meta. The changes he propose would buff max resist stam builds stacking damage even more.

Alfie2072 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Snares, Immobilizes, and Stuns are now considered Major/Minor debuffs. This would create consistency in their application and operation, effectively creating immunity windows that mean when a player becomes snared or immobilized, they are immune to snare or immobilize for [x] seconds (the same way stun works).

Snares

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Impediment, reducing their movement speed by 10% for 4 seconds. This effect can be cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

Immobilizes

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Stupefy, immobilizing them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Stupefy and Minor Stupefy share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

Stuns

• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Major Paralysis, stunning them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.
• [x skill/set] afflicts the enemy with Minor Paralysis, stunning them for 1.5 seconds. This effect can be broken by using break free, and has a 6 second cooldown.

*Note: Major Paralysis and Minor Paralysis share the same cooldown, and cannot be stacked on one another.

This covers the framework for mobility debuffs, and the next step would be up to ZOS to determine which current skills/sets would apply the Major effects, and which skills/sets should apply the Minor effects.

Edit: Reworded for clarity

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

you should kill him because he has given up so much to be able to have max speed, accessory traits, mundas, race, potion, gear sets
dont quite understand why you would do nothing, this comment didnt really make sense, its kind of hinting your a complete glass cannon which in that case you burst him by the time he reaches you

Have you been in CP PvP?

lueckgenb16_ESO

Kadoin wrote: »

You're funny. That dismissal is equivalent to me saying your movement problems have nothing to do with me because you can slot heavy and simply walk as slow as you want until you gap close. Now you can pretend that's not the case, but considering I do that on my stam chars, I'm pretty certain that's a "counter" to the snare meta. The changes he propose would buff max resist stam builds stacking damage even more.

Dude when I talk about movement problems I don't rate anything (class,stam,mag,etc.) above the other. With movement I'm taking everything in. I don't want stam to roll over mag and vice versa. Just saying that pointing out ONE specific problem won't help. I'm not saying "your problem has nothing to do with me" im saying "your problem has nothing to do with the overall problem of the game". That's a difference! I neither want a ranged char get f-ed because of these issues nor a melee.

And still: If you are in light armor on open field alone and get in melee range you should be in trouble. You should snare a melee at range and then get tf away. I see your problem but its just too specific. I feel we need more global changes.

Snares are applied to easily atm. and chain-snares/roots are really bad for gameplay overall. That's why I stated the changes:

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Player is recieving a first snare: ability works for x seconds
Player is recieving a second snare within like 5 seconds after the first snare wore off: ability works for x-50% seconds
Player is recieving a third snare within like 5 seconds after the second snare wore off: ability works for x-75% seconds
Player is recieving a fourth snare within like 5 seconds after the third snare wore off: ability works for x-100% seconds

So now the player is immune to snares for 5 seconds wich automatically leads to a new "first snare".

Same could work with stuns, immobilize etc.

Means that you guarantee that a player is not outplayed just by spamming cc.

I just want the stupid ball groups to stop and end the full time snare or root thing. I neither want the super-speed on a character to happen, but atleast they did adress it in the last patch. Global improvements to movement over all? I don't see a vision here or anywhere atm.

lueckgenb16_ESO

Kadoin wrote: »

Have you been in CP PvP?

CP PvP is f-ed up anyway but atleast you can just choose to play NON-CP PvP instead.

Kadoin

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

You're funny. That dismissal is equivalent to me saying your movement problems have nothing to do with me because you can slot heavy and simply walk as slow as you want until you gap close. Now you can pretend that's not the case, but considering I do that on my stam chars, I'm pretty certain that's a "counter" to the snare meta. The changes he propose would buff max resist stam builds stacking damage even more.

Dude when I talk about movement problems I don't rate anything (class,stam,mag,etc.) above the other. With movement I'm taking everything in. I don't want stam to roll over mag and vice versa. Just saying that pointing out ONE specific problem won't help. I'm not saying "your problem has nothing to do with me" im saying "your problem has nothing to do with the overall problem of the game". That's a difference! I neither want a ranged char get f-ed because of these issues nor a melee.

And still: If you are in light armor on open field alone and get in melee range you should be in trouble. You should snare a melee at range and then get tf away. I see your problem but its just too specific. I feel we need more global changes.

Snares are applied to easily atm. and chain-snares/roots are really bad for gameplay overall. That's why I stated the changes:

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Player is recieving a first snare: ability works for x seconds
Player is recieving a second snare within like 5 seconds after the first snare wore off: ability works for x-50% seconds
Player is recieving a third snare within like 5 seconds after the second snare wore off: ability works for x-75% seconds
Player is recieving a fourth snare within like 5 seconds after the third snare wore off: ability works for x-100% seconds

So now the player is immune to snares for 5 seconds wich automatically leads to a new "first snare".

Same could work with stuns, immobilize etc.

Means that you guarantee that a player is not outplayed just by spamming cc.

I just want the stupid ball groups to stop and end the full time snare or root thing. I neither want the super-speed on a character to happen, but atleast they did adress it in the last patch. Global improvements to movement over all? I don't see a vision here or anywhere atm.

You know templar and mag DK have melee components? Which is why I said they will need something else to compensate for the changes. Both those classes revolve around snares, and to say otherwise is just silly. Let's not even get into mag wardens. Wouldn't want to summon them here, now would we? That's an entire class that becomes useless without snares considering its damage theme and terrible skill meshing.

I don't know if you realize this, but other classes also have melee components for mag builds (DK, templar, NB). The snare changes described in this thread would nothing but buff stam chars because you can get immunity on them when you want it, and with a global cd/immunity that means that those immunity-granting skills become even more powerful than they were before + you save stam from having to use it when you have immunity. Couple that with lower costs across the board, weapon damage stacking, pot differences, etc. and you have a game where you would have to be an idiot to not be stam in PvP.

Oh wait, that's already nearly the complete case on live!

EDit: Further, explain how a snare nerf will nerf a ball group? They can just spam stuns, they can also not be snared and run in your face with destro ult + start increasing their movement speed. Heal stacking making them invincible? Snare nerf won't touch that! Proc sets all dropping on you at once? Snare nerf won't touch that either!

What it will do is let them always win. You'd actually be buffing them with the suggestions, esp. when they need to go through breaches or on an open field. They'll need less purify spam and can push more healing out, more damage, and more ults. I fail to see it.

lueckgenb16_ESO

Okay man I won't discuss this with you anymore because you don't seem to get it. You seem to be going on cherry picking on things you don't like but thats not what I try to do here.
And by the way Templars and Wardens are not known to be in a bad place in pvp right now (especially the mag versions).
You probably don't even read patch notes and the incoming nerf to rapid assault regarding ball groups (whitch is good) or new sets that are coming.

I don't want to quote everything I think is wrong with your statements. I made my point. You made yours. Let's go on on with this discussion. #nohate

Kadoin

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Okay man I won't discuss this with you anymore because you don't seem to get it. You seem to be going on cherry picking on things you don't like but thats not what I try to do here.
And by the way Templars and Wardens are not known to be in a bad place in pvp right now (especially the mag versions).
You probably don't even read patch notes and the incoming nerf to rapid assault regarding ball groups (whitch is good) or new sets that are coming.

I don't want to quote everything I think is wrong with your statements. I made my point. You made yours. Let's go on on with this discussion. #nohate

Whatever you say. Just so you know, I don't care about anyone on the forums either way. You suggest a change and I oppose it because I find it flawed. I'm gonna speak out about it. It's literally that simple. ZOS will balance however they want, and if it really goes the way you or others suggest, I'll just swap to stam builds because that will be the final nail in mag build coffins.

Also, you're free to think what you want, but you can't seriously argue that a snare nerf is NOT a buff to a ball group or organized raid, esp. with the coming rapids nerf, without showing exactly how that is so.

It's funny how these forums always have someone trying to school others. You can't really do that if you only seek to buff your linear playstyle and have never bothered with any other kinds.

lueckgenb16_ESO

I play in PvP:
Mag Templar
Stam Templar
Mag DK
Mag Warden
Stam Warden
Stam NB
Mag Sorc

It's funny how these forums always have someone trying to school others. You can't really do that if you only seek to buff your linear playstyle and have never bothered with any other kinds.

It's also funny how people always accomplish to misread posts if they really want to.

And yes, it seems you only care about yourself. You disqualify yourself man.

Draxys

Aside from balancing, this seems a little boring tbh. I like that some things are outside the major/minor system so that there’s variety. I do think snares could be in there, but I’d like to see stun/roots stay the same. Also, don’t we already have root cooldowns? Obviously there’s CC immunity and the fact that roots don’t stack.
Edit- I meant snares, but I guess neither roots nor snares stack.

Jakx

5 piece light armor immune to snare, 5 piece medium should have a better skill activated snare immunity (more than 2 seconds but requires a button press), let heavy armor rot in snares.

Radical I know

Aedrion

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Afflicts the enemy with Major Stupefy, immobilizing them for 3 seconds. This effect can be broken by using roll dodge or cleansed, and has a 6 second cooldown.

I like your ideas man, we certainly need a big 'ol rework of how CC works in this game.
But I'm pretty stupefy is already in the game because this looks familiar...

KhajiitFelix

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

I play in PvP:
Mag Templar
Stam Templar
Mag DK
Mag Warden
Stam Warden
Stam NB
Mag Sorc

It's funny how these forums always have someone trying to school others. You can't really do that if you only seek to buff your linear playstyle and have never bothered with any other kinds.

It's also funny how people always accomplish to misread posts if they really want to.

And yes, it seems you only care about yourself. You disqualify yourself man.

You play cancer, @lueckgenb16_ESO

Minno

But snares already have a major/minor; highest overrides lowest and can't stack lol. And speed gives up too much compared to snares when making that decision.

Problem is speed was increased too much with summerset and nerfed too much with wolfhunter but access to snares remained the same. Some abilities are way too powerful for the snare they have and others are just balanced so it's justified (ie rending slashes versus vamps bane or snb 60% snare but has minor maim and minor heroism on a spamable that costs less than 2k).

GrumpyDuckling

Minno wrote: »

But snares already have a major/minor; highest overrides lowest and can't stack lol. And speed gives up too much compared to snares when making that decision.

Problem is speed was increased too much with summerset and nerfed too much with wolfhunter but access to snares remained the same. Some abilities are way too powerful for the snare they have and others are just balanced so it's justified (ie rending slashes versus vamps bane or snb 60% snare but has minor maim and minor heroism on a spamable that costs less than 2k).

I don't think snares have a major/minor though. Yes, highest overrides lowest and can't stack, but a major/minor would mean consistent numbers across the snaring mechanic, and offer means to create an immunity periods/cooldown periods of the debuff on skills (think along the lines of defile, with major/minor, and a brief immunity period/cooldown periods on skills).

Nutshotz

lueckgenb16_ESO wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

And when a stam player with max speed and damage charges at me in light armor, I should do nothing? Templar circle becomes worthless and so does the "house" idea? If they push changes like this then DK and Templar both need extreme changes.

You should equip for things like this. And if you are in light armor in the frontline without friends defending you, you made a mistake. Im sorry to say that and I don't wanna stomp on you or something, but your issue has nothing to do with the movement problems this game has at the moment.

This to me saying that a light armor wearer shouldn't be out in the front line and deserves to be steam rolled. Sounds to me like youre a heavy armor meta type. Purtay any of the Stam class version. I'm sorry but get off of that pedistle!

Minno

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

But snares already have a major/minor; highest overrides lowest and can't stack lol. And speed gives up too much compared to snares when making that decision.

Problem is speed was increased too much with summerset and nerfed too much with wolfhunter but access to snares remained the same. Some abilities are way too powerful for the snare they have and others are just balanced so it's justified (ie rending slashes versus vamps bane or snb 60% snare but has minor maim and minor heroism on a spamable that costs less than 2k).

I don't think snares have a major/minor though. Yes, highest overrides lowest and can't stack, but a major/minor would mean consistent numbers across the snaring mechanic, and offer means to create an immunity periods/cooldown periods of the debuff on skills (think along the lines of defile, with major/minor, and a brief immunity period/cooldown periods on skills).

its not a major/minor system, but it is consistent. everyone is being hit by a 40% and the difference between 40-70% is kinda minimal. You will not see any difference if the devs placed all snares on a major/minor system except waste their time on a solution that doesnt fix the issue.

GrumpyDuckling

Minno wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

But snares already have a major/minor; highest overrides lowest and can't stack lol. And speed gives up too much compared to snares when making that decision.

Problem is speed was increased too much with summerset and nerfed too much with wolfhunter but access to snares remained the same. Some abilities are way too powerful for the snare they have and others are just balanced so it's justified (ie rending slashes versus vamps bane or snb 60% snare but has minor maim and minor heroism on a spamable that costs less than 2k).

I don't think snares have a major/minor though. Yes, highest overrides lowest and can't stack, but a major/minor would mean consistent numbers across the snaring mechanic, and offer means to create an immunity periods/cooldown periods of the debuff on skills (think along the lines of defile, with major/minor, and a brief immunity period/cooldown periods on skills).

its not a major/minor system, but it is consistent. everyone is being hit by a 40% and the difference between 40-70% is kinda minimal. You will not see any difference if the devs placed all snares on a major/minor system except waste their time on a solution that doesnt fix the issue.

If you read the first post you'll see the suggestion that snares be reduced to 30% (major) and 10% (minor), which I think would work towards a solution.

Hearts_Wake

Flawed from the jump.
Your snares can stack.
Shame.

GrumpyDuckling

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Flawed from the jump.
Your snares can stack.
Shame.

Nope, not flawed.
Major and Minor Expedition can stack. So the snares can too.
Unshame.

Minno

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Flawed from the jump.
Your snares can stack.
Shame.

Nope, not flawed.
Major and Minor Expedition can stack. So the snares can too.
Unshame.

Yes flawed, because you already have this system:
-first snares CANT stack but highest overrides lowest. This is important for the next few points.
- second, the most prevalent snares are those at 30-40%. Your change would mean nothing would feel different for much of cyro.
- third, you didnt solve the real issue; access to speed is less than access to snares.

You just swept the issue under the rug.

Rake

Just introduce fatigue to snare spam. Same as sorcerers streak.

SkysOutThizeOut

Stop with proposing new nerfs to new problems that were caused by nerfing something else.
@Minno is right. This idea won’t solve the issue.

GrumpyDuckling

Minno wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Flawed from the jump.
Your snares can stack.
Shame.

Nope, not flawed.
Major and Minor Expedition can stack. So the snares can too.
Unshame.

Yes flawed, because you already have this system:
-first snares CANT stack but highest overrides lowest. This is important for the next few points.
- second, the most prevalent snares are those at 30-40%. Your change would mean nothing would feel different for much of cyro.
- third, you didnt solve the real issue; access to speed is less than access to snares.

You just swept the issue under the rug.

@Minno Seriously? The proposed changes includes a cooldown period which provides immunity from snares. If you think the result of a snare immunity window would be that "nothing would feel different for much of cyro," then I find it hard to take what you say seriously.

Edit: Also, in the comment you are quoting we were talking about the proposed idea of the thread, which would allow the major/minor snare to stack. So yes, they would stack. You saying that they "CANT" stack is just you saying how it currently works, which I wasn't talking about. In a major/minor system, yes the major/minor can stack (with the exception of stuns/immobilizes).

Minno

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Hearts_Wake wrote: »

Flawed from the jump.
Your snares can stack.
Shame.

Nope, not flawed.
Major and Minor Expedition can stack. So the snares can too.
Unshame.

Yes flawed, because you already have this system:
-first snares CANT stack but highest overrides lowest. This is important for the next few points.
- second, the most prevalent snares are those at 30-40%. Your change would mean nothing would feel different for much of cyro.
- third, you didnt solve the real issue; access to speed is less than access to snares.

You just swept the issue under the rug.

@Minno Seriously? The proposed changes includes a cooldown period which provides immunity from snares. If you think the result of a snare immunity window would be that "nothing would feel different for much of cyro," then I find it hard to take what you say seriously.

Edit: Also, in the comment you are quoting we were talking about the proposed idea of the thread, which would allow the major/minor snare to stack. So yes, they would stack. You saying that they "CANT" stack is just you saying how it currently works, which I wasn't talking about. In a major/minor system, yes the major/minor can stack (with the exception of stuns/immobilizes).

but you want counterplay, yet give everyone access to snare immunity that doesnt suggest a clear cost to accessing the snare in the first place.

The only issue is that it takes more effort to get speed than it does for me to cast one ability with a 40% snare. major expedition+steed = 40% but I have to waste a mundas+GCD+skill slot to get it but the snarer only has to slot an ability+cast it and some abilities actually deal damage so you see offensive positives for running a snare.

No one is having these discussions seriously enough for me to roll with those discussions. Till then, GG.