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Argonian has been overnerfed
Aedrion
✭✭✭✭✭
Hello forum dwellers
With the recent patchnotes up, I noticed that argonian has gone from overperforming slightly to being somewhere at the bottom of the barrel. In this thread, I'd like to indicate why the changes to argonians have been too heavy-handed, hoping perhaps to catch the eye of ZoS or a class rep and have them take something from it.
First of all, I will not deny that argonian was a little overtuned. Having both good sustain through potions, a chunk of health, immunity to poison and diseased, extra magicka and a very powerful healing trait, the race was a go-to for too many specs.
But the sweeping nerf to every trait is too much and was likely done because of how the racial balance tweaks were calculated.
You see, the team likely works with a system that resembles something like each race having passives worth 10 points in total. Each effect is worth a certain amount of points, so that in the end, the values attributed to each race are mostly balanced. If one trait is very good, the others will be mediocre, if one trait is very weak, the others will be stronger. Etc.
What we're likely seeing here is Resourceful being seen as an extremely powerful trait. ZoS themselves stated that upon inspection, argonians had almost double the racial bonuses of other races because of that trait and so they tweaked resourceful and nerfed everything else to stay within racial strength parameters.
This is correct... in theory. Let's clarify!
Resourceful gives you 4620 of all stats every 45 seconds. That means that this equates a regen bonus of 205 for every stat. 205 health regen, 205 magicka regen and 205 stamina regen. On top of that, with glyphs, it could be increased to a 4620 of all stats every ~25 seconds for a whopping 369 of each regen.
Considering that other races get maybe one of these – and not even as strong – as a whole racial, one would logically conclude that this trait is SO good that obviously, the other traits must be toned down to compensate.
But, that's the theory. In practice, this mathematical approach quickly falls apart for the following 4 reasons.
1. You will not always get the full 4620 stats when you use your potion. Sometimes, you'll be in dire need of stamina but not in need of magicka, or the opposite, or you'll need a quick burst of health to get you out of execution range but your resources are doing okay. This is especially prevalent in PvE where you might only need one type or resource and the health and other resource are completely useless. Even in PvP, you might need to be quickly able to dodge or use a skill and pop a potion for the resources, wasting the other stats. The only situation in which you get that flawless 205 regen is when you use your potion at just the right time, when everything is low. This is the minority of cases because all of the stats are delivered in one burst.
2. Even if you calculate it as a regeneration boost, it's not actually regeneration. There's a huge difference between regeneration and a buff that restores a stat. Regeneration can be boosted by gear, by skills, by potions, flat bonuses like this cannot. A regen value of 175 stamina regen is stronger than 205 flat bonus. Compare to dark deal, that buff gives you 220 stamina or magicka every 2 seconds but cannot be increased by medium or light armour, potions or skills. Thus to compare these flat values to actual regeneration is incorrect.
3. Potions aren't always used for resources. Potions are versatile and serve a ton of purposes. They can give you a buff your class doesn't have, they can plug a hole in your build, they can permit you to see NB's, or enter stealth yourself, or grant a speed bonus. In these uses of potions, you'll want to use them when you need the effects, not when you need the stats. If a NB enters stealth while you're at high magicka and HP, using a potion to reveal him wastes the stats. If you need brutality, sorcery or another buff, you'll want to have that effect active asap, before you need healing and resources. You will probably even wish to enter a fight with immovable in some cases, literally giving you nothing for this racial. The purpose of many potions doesn't click with optimising the stat gain.
4. Two minor reasons rolled into one. Firstly, it requires a consumable. No other racial does, this passive is strong because it demands a player uses a finite supply of potions. That's a little more investment required that many other racials. Secondly, Jewellery glyphs make this trait sound absurdly strong but not everybody uses alchemy glyphs. They also leave most builds with strong regen but it hobbles damage output in most cases and makes you devour potion supplies like an addict.
Combine all four of these and you can see that there's a difference between Resourceful on paper and in practise.
Now, I'm not asking them to reverse the changes to this trait specifically. It was a little too much and I'm fine with what it is now. But the skill isn't so strong that all other traits deserve to be so minor. Quick to Mend lost over 50% of its potency, poison immunity is gone and 9% HP was turned into +1000 health, with doesn't compare to other similar traits' changes.
Perhaps the resource gain from resourceful could spread out over time? Perhaps some other traits could be buffed a little bit to make to align a little more with previous values. Such +4% healing and and 3% healing taken? Or 1500 HP instead of 1000?
All I wish to ask is that the other racials aren't so heavily nerfed because of resourceful's deceptively strong numbers. Thus, I hope the team looks at feedback, not just this feedback, and takes another look at argonians before this change goes live.
Sidenote: I am aware other races have also been tweaked in strange ways but I wanted to address this nerf primarily since the nerfhammer came down very hard here.
Cheers and have a good one!
Aedrion
With the recent patchnotes up, I noticed that argonian has gone from overperforming slightly to being somewhere at the bottom of the barrel. In this thread, I'd like to indicate why the changes to argonians have been too heavy-handed, hoping perhaps to catch the eye of ZoS or a class rep and have them take something from it.
First of all, I will not deny that argonian was a little overtuned. Having both good sustain through potions, a chunk of health, immunity to poison and diseased, extra magicka and a very powerful healing trait, the race was a go-to for too many specs.
But the sweeping nerf to every trait is too much and was likely done because of how the racial balance tweaks were calculated.
You see, the team likely works with a system that resembles something like each race having passives worth 10 points in total. Each effect is worth a certain amount of points, so that in the end, the values attributed to each race are mostly balanced. If one trait is very good, the others will be mediocre, if one trait is very weak, the others will be stronger. Etc.
What we're likely seeing here is Resourceful being seen as an extremely powerful trait. ZoS themselves stated that upon inspection, argonians had almost double the racial bonuses of other races because of that trait and so they tweaked resourceful and nerfed everything else to stay within racial strength parameters.
This is correct... in theory. Let's clarify!
Resourceful gives you 4620 of all stats every 45 seconds. That means that this equates a regen bonus of 205 for every stat. 205 health regen, 205 magicka regen and 205 stamina regen. On top of that, with glyphs, it could be increased to a 4620 of all stats every ~25 seconds for a whopping 369 of each regen.
Considering that other races get maybe one of these – and not even as strong – as a whole racial, one would logically conclude that this trait is SO good that obviously, the other traits must be toned down to compensate.
But, that's the theory. In practice, this mathematical approach quickly falls apart for the following 4 reasons.
1. You will not always get the full 4620 stats when you use your potion. Sometimes, you'll be in dire need of stamina but not in need of magicka, or the opposite, or you'll need a quick burst of health to get you out of execution range but your resources are doing okay. This is especially prevalent in PvE where you might only need one type or resource and the health and other resource are completely useless. Even in PvP, you might need to be quickly able to dodge or use a skill and pop a potion for the resources, wasting the other stats. The only situation in which you get that flawless 205 regen is when you use your potion at just the right time, when everything is low. This is the minority of cases because all of the stats are delivered in one burst.
2. Even if you calculate it as a regeneration boost, it's not actually regeneration. There's a huge difference between regeneration and a buff that restores a stat. Regeneration can be boosted by gear, by skills, by potions, flat bonuses like this cannot. A regen value of 175 stamina regen is stronger than 205 flat bonus. Compare to dark deal, that buff gives you 220 stamina or magicka every 2 seconds but cannot be increased by medium or light armour, potions or skills. Thus to compare these flat values to actual regeneration is incorrect.
3. Potions aren't always used for resources. Potions are versatile and serve a ton of purposes. They can give you a buff your class doesn't have, they can plug a hole in your build, they can permit you to see NB's, or enter stealth yourself, or grant a speed bonus. In these uses of potions, you'll want to use them when you need the effects, not when you need the stats. If a NB enters stealth while you're at high magicka and HP, using a potion to reveal him wastes the stats. If you need brutality, sorcery or another buff, you'll want to have that effect active asap, before you need healing and resources. You will probably even wish to enter a fight with immovable in some cases, literally giving you nothing for this racial. The purpose of many potions doesn't click with optimising the stat gain.
4. Two minor reasons rolled into one. Firstly, it requires a consumable. No other racial does, this passive is strong because it demands a player uses a finite supply of potions. That's a little more investment required that many other racials. Secondly, Jewellery glyphs make this trait sound absurdly strong but not everybody uses alchemy glyphs. They also leave most builds with strong regen but it hobbles damage output in most cases and makes you devour potion supplies like an addict.
Combine all four of these and you can see that there's a difference between Resourceful on paper and in practise.
Now, I'm not asking them to reverse the changes to this trait specifically. It was a little too much and I'm fine with what it is now. But the skill isn't so strong that all other traits deserve to be so minor. Quick to Mend lost over 50% of its potency, poison immunity is gone and 9% HP was turned into +1000 health, with doesn't compare to other similar traits' changes.
Perhaps the resource gain from resourceful could spread out over time? Perhaps some other traits could be buffed a little bit to make to align a little more with previous values. Such +4% healing and and 3% healing taken? Or 1500 HP instead of 1000?
All I wish to ask is that the other racials aren't so heavily nerfed because of resourceful's deceptively strong numbers. Thus, I hope the team looks at feedback, not just this feedback, and takes another look at argonians before this change goes live.
Sidenote: I am aware other races have also been tweaked in strange ways but I wanted to address this nerf primarily since the nerfhammer came down very hard here.
Cheers and have a good one!
Aedrion
22
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InvictusApollo✭✭✭✭✭
✭"finite supply of potions" - What? Those things are everywhere. I haven't checked but Im sure that if I lifted the seat of my toilet I would find a potion suitable for Argonians to regenerate all of their stats.9 -
Defilted✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lizard folk.. AKA "Dirt people" deserve what they get! lol =pXBOX NA
XBOX Series X
#NightmareBear4 -
Schattenfluegel✭✭✭✭Overnerfed?
Have you look at the Sorcchanges? The new passive is a huge dps loss on pve on a Stamsorc...and you're going to tell me, that the Argonians are overnerfed - if you loose a Little Sustain? Play a Stamsorc, then you are able to know, how good your sustain is.Edited by Schattenfluegel on January 22, 2019 3:15PMLove my Stamsorc2 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »Overnerfed?
Have you look at the Sorcchanges? The new passive is a huge dps loss on pve on a Stamsorc...and you're going to tell me, that the Argonians are overnerfed - if you loose a Little Sustain? Play a Stamsorc, then you are able to know, how good your sustain is.
This thread isn't about stamsorcs, it's about argonians. And it's also not about sustain on argonians. You didn't read the thread well enough.InvictusApollo wrote: »"finite supply of potions" - What? Those things are everywhere. I haven't checked but Im sure that if I lifted the seat of my toilet I would find a potion suitable for Argonians to regenerate all of their stats.
If you use crappy potions sure. If you used crafted ones designed to complement your build, then no, they aren't found in toilets. Don't drink toilet water.10 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Aedrion
One thing you neglect is that Resourceful is so good because it gives the stat back in a burst. I don’t care if it’s 300 or 600 regen when the 4620 I get on top allows me to finish my opponent or to activate a dodge roll that saves me just so.
In every tight situation where it’s a race between going out of resources and finishing your task Resourceful totally outshines any other form of Regen.
Argonian will be ok.Edited by Feanor on January 22, 2019 4:02PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.9 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭@Aedrion
In every tight situation where it’s a race between going out of resources and finishing your task Resourceful totally outshines any other form of Regen.
May I re-iterate that this thread isn't about Resourceful? It's about the nerfs to the whole race on the back of resourceful being assumed to be all-powerful.
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Praeficere✭✭✭✭Think it could be nerfed more to be honestThough the shadow has moved not,
A thousand miles I’ve passed –
Ageless as the mountains but forgetting not the past.
Are you Resolute?
PC EU Progression Guild15 -
Anoregon✭✭✭Kitty_Quietly wrote: »I’d trade the potion passive for cost reduction and a bit more damage.
100% this. The potion passive causes way too many issues on both the balance and actual gameplay fronts to be worth keeping. Scrap it so that Argonians can actually have meaningful balance in line with the other races.3 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Praeficere wrote: »Think it could be nerfed more to be honest
They've been nerfed to near irrelevance.
Bretons now have more sustain, making them the better Healer
Nords offer the most group utility with Ultimate regen passive, making it the go to tank now
Our PvP performance has dropped across the board with less sustain, survivability and Poison Status immunity removed.
Our DPS has suffered as a result of our sustain being nerfed.
If anything, they need a buff to help them out because as it stands, Argonian is right back to being bottom of the food chain, just like it was prior to Morrowind.Argonian forever8 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Schattenfluegel wrote: »Overnerfed?
Have you look at the Sorcchanges? The new passive is a huge dps loss on pve on a Stamsorc...and you're going to tell me, that the Argonians are overnerfed - if you loose a Little Sustain? Play a Stamsorc, then you are able to know, how good your sustain is.
Apples and pears. What's your point about a class when here the guy is talking about an entire RACE?Edited by Xvorg on January 22, 2019 5:44PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Silver_Strider wrote: »Praeficere wrote: »Think it could be nerfed more to be honest
They've been nerfed to near irrelevance.
Bretons now have more sustain, making them the better Healer
Nords offer the most group utility with Ultimate regen passive, making it the go to tank now
Our PvP performance has dropped across the board with less sustain, survivability and Poison Status immunity removed.
Our DPS has suffered as a result of our sustain being nerfed.
If anything, they need a buff to help them out because as it stands, Argonian is right back to being bottom of the food chain, just like it was prior to Morrowind.
Pretty much this, but hey, keyboard racists are happySarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭Tbh I'd like to see the 4% healing done replaced, as I'm a DPS. I'm not a healer, but it seems like a weak bonus to me. Could be wrong tho, I'd appreciate if someone would enlighten me if I am.Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.0 -
Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Tbh I'd like to see the 4% healing done replaced, as I'm a DPS. I'm not a healer, but it seems like a weak bonus to me. Could be wrong tho, I'd appreciate if someone would enlighten me if I am.
You request ties into what they should have done for races in the first place, which is offering choices of morphs for each passive. I can't comment more beyond that. In the current model they stuck with, you're asking for a passive that caters to your specific needs, which is a little unreasonable.
4% healing increase is very meh. Spell- or weaponpower or a stat increase like most races have is better because it increases damage AND healing with magicka or stamina skills AND it scales with gear/buffs. This healing increase is very static.2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »"finite supply of potions" - What? Those things are everywhere. I haven't checked but Im sure that if I lifted the seat of my toilet I would find a potion suitable for Argonians to regenerate all of their stats.
Are they? Yea I guess I could just go buy a 100 stack of these for 20k and guzzle them like it's 45.Edited by Wuuffyy on January 22, 2019 8:55PMWuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions1 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Tbh I'd like to see the 4% healing done replaced, as I'm a DPS. I'm not a healer, but it seems like a weak bonus to me. Could be wrong tho, I'd appreciate if someone would enlighten me if I am.
As a solo DPS-er you need to self heal too. And here is where 4% will help you.
For example you could use Automaton set (5 items - Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities) instead of Hunding's Rage (5 items -Adds 299 Weapon Damage). With Automaton you will do more DPS and less self heals and 4% healing bonus will help you compensate.
If you seek to minmax just your DPS then Argonian is not your race.
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Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Tbh I'd like to see the 4% healing done replaced, as I'm a DPS. I'm not a healer, but it seems like a weak bonus to me. Could be wrong tho, I'd appreciate if someone would enlighten me if I am.
As a solo DPS-er you need to self heal too. And here is where 4% will help you.
For example you could use Automaton set (5 items - Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities) instead of Hunding's Rage (5 items -Adds 299 Weapon Damage). With Automaton you will do more DPS and less self heals and 4% healing bonus will help you compensate.
If you seek to minmax just your DPS then Argonian is not your race.
The same is true of Argonians for ALL roles now. Nords are now the go to Tank, Breton the go to Healer and everyone else is a better DPS option. There is legitimately nothing worthwhile about Argonians now since we are now outclassed in every single area. Hell, I'd say we're worse off then we ever were since Thieves Guild because we had 9% healing received back then, making our self healing infinitely better than the 4% Healing done we have now and our sustain was 12% of max resources, which wasn't OP at all and arguably better for DPS purposes since it at least gave more of our primary stat than what is currently the case, while still being a nice heal.Argonian forever4 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭-_-Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Andele✭✭It would have been nice if the hp was 1500, but its really whatever, worst change was that Quick to Mend is still boring and that Resourceful depends on item usage.
Thematically cool would be if quick to mend started off weak, but got proportionally stronger the lower hp % you are at (e.g. keeping 4% base, but getting 0.05% more per 1% hp missing) or Resourceful being that Argonians got a infinite white quality/weaker than usual hist tripot available, but if you use a real potion, you get the current instant resource regen (or even a different effect, since hist sap was supposedly used to give temporary super mode to argonians in lore, hell why not give each race a racial that has morphs, with both base and variants being viable).
The actual resource regen numbers balance tho is more of a general ESO champ point progression and set design problem.1 -
BejaProphet✭✭✭✭✭
✭A much more intelligent post than I expected.
And sadly it’s true. It’s not that the passive are nothing now, but especially when set next to some of the new stars they are nothing.
The only role they seem primed for now is healer, yet I wonder how their heals and sustain compare to a Breton?
Anyways, not a big deal to me. I’m jumping ship like every other tank in game.Edited by BejaProphet on January 23, 2019 12:20AMRoyal Poet's Dungeon Tanking Guide https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/416797/royal-poets-guide-to-traditional-tanking-in-veteran-dungeons#latest0 -
Cage_Lizardman✭✭✭✭✭BejaProphet wrote: »The only role they seem primed for now is healer, yet I wonder how their heals and sustain compare to a Breton?
Well Alcast already recommends Altmer/Breton/Argonian as healer now. Both Altmer and Breton has been buffed, and Argonian nothing but nerfed. So...
I suppose for some pvp purposes Argonians could still be recommended... maybe?1 -
RaptorRodeoGod✭✭✭✭✭RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »Tbh I'd like to see the 4% healing done replaced, as I'm a DPS. I'm not a healer, but it seems like a weak bonus to me. Could be wrong tho, I'd appreciate if someone would enlighten me if I am.
As a solo DPS-er you need to self heal too. And here is where 4% will help you.
For example you could use Automaton set (5 items - Adds 400 Weapon Damage to your Physical Damage abilities) instead of Hunding's Rage (5 items -Adds 299 Weapon Damage). With Automaton you will do more DPS and less self heals and 4% healing bonus will help you compensate.
If you seek to minmax just your DPS then Argonian is not your race.
Yeah but 4% isn't gonna help me in a life or death situation. I can heal back to full hp with one matriarch heal, and power surge keeps me topped off most of the time. I think the same would still be the case if I swapped to another race.Give all classes access to a Scribing skill that works like Arcanist beam.
---
Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 10 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. Make a self debuff mythic. Literally anything at this point.0 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe they are on the lower side for MagDPS and now the third best tanks instead of by far the best.
It might be possible to get them a buff still on the PTS there is still time.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Problem with argonian is, now they are useless for both dps and healing because there is much potent race to go (altmer).
Since they buffed strongest race for magicka says they wanna us all to play altmers.
Numbers on argonians maybe look nice for some, but in reality its useless because if you play other roles than tanks, in most cases resourceful is wasted. Many players (me included) using potions for only one stat when its low.
See for yourself when you use your potions how often you need only magicka/stamina on your dds and healers
Yes, argonians are overnerfed because they nerfed every single passive they had, and on top of that they buffed other stronger races (altmer, redguard - both now have better resources and damage than Argo)3 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Aedrion
One thing you neglect is that Resourceful is so good because it gives the stat back in a burst. I don’t care if it’s 300 or 600 regen when the 4620 I get on top allows me to finish my opponent or to activate a dodge roll that saves me just so.
In every tight situation where it’s a race between going out of resources and finishing your task Resourceful totally outshines any other form of Regen.
Argonian will be ok.
This isn't about one use in one situation.
Drinking any potion you need will give you that stat back whether you have the Argonian burst or not. And if you are a magicka starved for the extra stam and happy you got stam back drinking a mag-pot, that one dodge roll isn't going to make or break your fight vs someone that had the sustain the whole time and never go that low.
You are creating a situation to point out the strongest it can possibly be in use and fact is, as the OP points out when talking about the passive is 90% of the time you aren't in that situation and getting a fraction of the benefit.
BUT, even I've agreed that the potion nerf was coming, even if I didn't think it was as OP as others. But they had every passive nerfed. 1K health bonus for 9% is less that 50% nerf. Sure, all races got flat values, but this was not a fair exchange like Altmer going from 10% to 2K.
They lost healing in. Which will be yet another hit to tanking as healing out is a crap bonus for that build in comparison b/c you getting more healing (and stronger ones) than you are doing on your own. Although healers will at least see a benefit still I suppose.
And they lost poison resist.
They took too much away in their support ability (tankiness) without offering enough to help them perform better in a damage build. I realize the 1K magicka will be slightly stronger than the 3% they got, so it's something, but funny enough, it actually can make you even less tanky for a tank build as you take more points out of health to put into stamina if you want your stamina up higher for stat return using shards/orbs.
And I know PvPers love to complain about tanks in pvp, but most don't have any idea what they are complaining about, they just see someone that doesn't fall over easy and 'know' that it's b/c they have heavy armor, or are a certain race, or have a strong sword/board passive, or a set that's too strong, etc. I've played the exact same builds in pve and pvp (same gear, CP, etc - only changing races) and can tell you that you feel a much bigger loss going from a race that has great DPS bonuses than you get from the support passives.
[side note] - as a player that often tanks in PvE when I do trials, this has been yet another nerf and will make the job even less enjoyable. Literally every patch since Morrowind two years ago has made tanking more tedious and less of a fun role to play as they've hammered any passives in heavy armor, champion points, sword and board and now racials. It's depressing and I'm about done with it all.Edited by xaraan on January 23, 2019 7:34AM-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
Flamingfunk✭✭✭The way I see the logic of race changes is that the last racial trait should be like a 5 set bonus.
Most classes have a unique, interesting and good 4th racial.
4% healing done is underwhelming, it's boring and absolutely not a 5 set bonus most people would drool over.
Please, make the last racial trait something interesting and/or fun.2 -
SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »"finite supply of potions" - What? Those things are everywhere. I haven't checked but Im sure that if I lifted the seat of my toilet I would find a potion suitable for Argonians to regenerate all of their stats.
If you use crappy potions sure. If you used crafted ones designed to complement your build, then no, they aren't found in toilets. Don't drink toilet water.
well IF you use crafted Potions, you are jus trunning arround with 20 of them?
More likely 400-600 when beginning to play, so they are indeed infinite for some fights.
atleast when I go to PVP I take a shjt ton of potions with me, why wouldnt I, they dont block much inv space anyways.
in PVE, the nerf aint that hard, we have tank running the tristat Crownpots on their argonian tanks, cause they dont need crafted tristats
but the argument of having infinite, or more than enough potions at hand is true for 95% of the casesPC EU
vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM
Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer0 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Goddamit
It was literally said by the devs that argonian had 2 times the racials of other races and now you are crying becouse they got rebalanced
They literally got more max mag and max health which is a huge boon
Get over yourselves. Argonian is still strong in pvp and one of the best pve tanksI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations2
