Ideas on how to make MagDK viable again (PVE Raids)

SaintSubwayy

First of all, this is not a NERF Magplar thread here, I'm just pointing out that the Gap between MagDK and Magplar will widen even more in Endgame Raids, with the Proposed Changes in Patch 4.3.0, and now 4.3.1
This Thread is made purely for PVE reasons, I tried to make all my suggestions to have as little of an Effect in PVP as Possible (sometimes they may have an impact^^).


So ZOS decided to Buff Magplar in relation to make them more viable in a Meele spot in Raidsetups.
While Magplar is currently very strong as a Ranged DPS, and will profit very much from the Racechanges already, due to the High ammount of "Magic DMG" and low ammount of Flame DMG they deal.

On the Otherhand, magDK's are loosing 2k or more DPS on ST ,due to the Dunmer Changes, while always occupying a meele spot, therefore making MagDK even more undesirable in Raidgroups than they are already.
MagDK's as DD's provide nothing towards group Synergy, that the Tank cannot provide by himself already (Engulfing, minor Brutality), Standart of Might Synergy is the exception (only usefull for alkosh, once in 2-3mins, so not really a gamechanger)


IMO magDK needs some love towards Raiding, but this should not effect PVP as much. Since magDK are on a decent spot there (maybe they can use some love, from loosing the 7% flamedmg, but thats not really something I can certainly say)

Here are some Ideas I came up with. To make MagDK more competitive in the Meele DPS spots in Raids.

Molten Whip:

Lash an enemy with flame, dealing 783 Flame Damage.
While slotted, you Spell and Weapon Damage is increased by 70 150 for Ardent Flame abilities.


Warmth (Passive):

Rank I: When you deal damage with an Ardent Flame ability you reduce the enemy's Movement Speed 15% for 2 seconds
While an Ardentflame Ability is active, increases the DMG of your Light and Heavyattacks by 129 WD and SD

Rank II: Damaging enemies with Ardent Flame abilities also reduces their movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds.
While an Ardentflame Ability is active, increases the DMG of your Light and Heavyattacks by 258 WD and SD


Eruption:

Summon a scorching cloud of ash at the target location, reducing enemy Movement Speed by 70%. and deals 186 Flame Damage every 1 second.
Deal 481 Flame Damage immediatly.
Allies can Activate the "Erupt" Synergy dealing X Flamedmg and grant themselfes and the 3 nearest allies Minor Resolve and Minor Ward for 15 seconds.


Iron Skin (Passive)

Rank I: Block an additional 4% 5% damage, Increases shieldstrengthcap by 5%

Rank II: Block an additional 10% damage, Increases shieldstrengthcap by 10%



Feel free to Add some of your Ideas, or thought on mine below.

GusTheWizard

I think giving them a bonus to light attacks is a good idea because most pvp mag dks use S&B anyway, it’d buff Stam dk though so I’d maybe add the buff to burning Embers

While you have Burning Embers active on a Target your light attacks deal 14% more damage to said target.

KhajiitFelix

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

SaintSubwayy

GusTheWizard wrote: »

I think giving them a bonus to light attacks is a good idea because most pvp mag dks use S&B anyway, it’d buff Stam dk though so I’d maybe add the buff to burning Embers

While you have Burning Embers active on a Target your light attacks deal 14% more damage to said target.

interesting that you would ad it to embers, I assume also to venmous Claw?
Why to this particular DOT, and not the way I supposed, increase LA dmg towards enemies effected by any Ardent flame ability?

SaintSubwayy

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

KhajiitFelix

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

SaintSubwayy

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

you playing Magicka or Stamina DK?

I've found that Combustion passive is Proccing way les son stam DK, than on magDK

KhajiitFelix

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

you playing Magicka or Stamina DK?

I've found that Combustion passive is Proccing way les son stam DK, than on magDK

Magicka

SaintSubwayy

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

you playing Magicka or Stamina DK?

I've found that Combustion passive is Proccing way les son stam DK, than on magDK

Magicka

Interessting, I assume you have the staff passive for increased statuseffwct procchance skilled, and combustion aswell?

I get about 25 Proccs of cumbustion on a 3mio dummy parse when on 50k dps
25 procc is about 12500 magicka alone from the passive which is actually pretty decent in terms of sustain in my eyes

KhajiitFelix

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

you playing Magicka or Stamina DK?

I've found that Combustion passive is Proccing way les son stam DK, than on magDK

Magicka

Interessting, I assume you have the staff passive for increased statuseffwct procchance skilled, and combustion aswell?

I get about 25 Proccs of cumbustion on a 3mio dummy parse when on 50k dps
25 procc is about 12500 magicka alone from the passive which is actually pretty decent in terms of sustain in my eyes

Maybe it's just me can't play that class. Max I got on PTS was 35k and couldn't even sustain that.

SaintSubwayy

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

KhajiitFelix wrote: »

Flames of Oblivion

Activate an aura of flames which launches a fireball at the nearest enemy every 5 seconds, dealing X Flame Damage.

While slotted, you gain Major Prophecy and Major Savagery increasing your Spell and Weapon Critical ratings by X. Each successful hit with fireball restores X Magicka or Stamina depending on which maximum resource is higher.

I like the sustain Idea on the Skill, but do you think DK's need more sustain?

I can sustain my MagDK quite well on Live (running Camoran or Citrusfilet)

Yeah they probably need sustain. Battle roar is the only thing that helps me to sustain.

you playing Magicka or Stamina DK?

I've found that Combustion passive is Proccing way les son stam DK, than on magDK

Magicka

Interessting, I assume you have the staff passive for increased statuseffwct procchance skilled, and combustion aswell?

I get about 25 Proccs of cumbustion on a 3mio dummy parse when on 50k dps
25 procc is about 12500 magicka alone from the passive which is actually pretty decent in terms of sustain in my eyes

Maybe it's just me can't play that class. Max I got on PTS was 35k and couldn't even sustain that.

Well pts lag can be hard to deal with, 210ms + gets really annoing

My dk is a vamp, so I get a bit more reg, which can make the difference, especially on the 3mio dummy, where the sustain gets close to the end of the parse

GusTheWizard

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

interesting that you would ad it to embers, I assume also to venmous Claw?
Why to this particular DOT, and not the way I supposed, increase LA dmg towards enemies effected by any Ardent flame ability?

I just wouldn’t wanna buff Stam dk as well and Zos doesn’t add sell/weapon damage to light attacks because I don’t think that’s how Light/heavy attacks work, it’s always a % just look a these

Bound Arnaments
While Slotted, your Max Stamina is increased by 8% and light attack damage is increased by 11%.

Molten Arnaments
Your own damage with fully-charge Heavy Attacks is increased by 40% while active.

Empower
Increases light attack damage by 40%

Off Balance
Using a Heavy Attack against an Off Balance enemy will deal 70% more
damage.

Queen's Elegance (set)
Increases your Light and Heavy Attack damage by 20%.

That’s why I’d add it to burning embers. Plus this way you actually have to use a melee skill to get this buff.

Anhedonie

I think "erupt" synergy could be more offensive. Like using this synergy would spread burning status effect upon nearby enemies in 8m range and apply Minor Breach/ Fracture.

SaintSubwayy

Anhedonie wrote: »

I think "erupt" synergy could be more offensive. Like using this synergy would spread burning status effect upon nearby enemies in 8m range and apply Minor Breach/ Fracture.

Nice idea with the burning, but Im not sure about the minor breach and freacture, but sounds nice, and would open up a slot for the healers, so they can dropp POTL

JumpmanLane

Bright throats alt Mastery DW Destro will hit pretty hard on a MagDk in DIVINES with little or no sustain issues.

Or something and Lich

SaintSubwayy

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Bright throats alt Mastery DW Destro will hit pretty hard on a MagDk in DIVINES with little or no sustain issues.

Or something and Lich

this sounds very much like a PVP build, or do you plan this for PVE?

Jamdarius

I would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love )

I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

PS: Would be awesome to finally have execution skill. And also increase 1 morph of Fragmented Shield so that it would not be considered useless and destroy tanks casting their own shield version.

SaintSubwayy

Jamdarius wrote: »

I would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love )

I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

Atm nothing will probably get past khajit in PVE, since crit ratio is a very strong stat, shown by DPS parses from 4.3.0
I assume you'd remove SD and WD, and add the Flamedmg increase instead right?


seems to be a comon Idea accross the board to give ash cloud and its morphs a synergy to help them in groups content to be more viable.

How would you change Whip, without wrecking the Current PVE whip or PVP whip, since both morphs are used widely, depending on the Content ppl play?
( leash in PVP, whip in PVE)

Jamdarius

Atm nothing will probably get past khajit in PVE, since crit ratio is a very strong stat, shown by DPS parses from 4.3.0
I assume you'd remove SD and WD, and add the Flamedmg increase instead right?


seems to be a comon Idea accross the board to give ash cloud and its morphs a synergy to help them in groups content to be more viable.

How would you change Whip, without wrecking the Current PVE whip or PVP whip, since both morphs are used widely, depending on the Content ppl play?
( leash in PVP, whip in PVE)

People would have to swallow up that 1 of whips would become stam/poison based, that is what all of the StamDK wants (note I play only MagDK and HealDK myself). I would also change powerlash proc requirements trigger to make it able to powerlash an opponent that would have been hit previously by our whip 2 times instead of the current off-balance (whip would leave non-purgeable stack for 4 seconds after powerlash is used it would consume 2 stacks, adding stack refreshes the timer for the debuff (so whip adds stack -> whip adds stack -> power lash consumes stacks).

I do not want removing spell/weapon damage, I would add back 7% increased flame damage in the form of 400 spell damage to flame skills instead 600 health they offered us. It would make DK's stronger while also not empowering 2 much other classes which would make interesting counterplay for OP Altmers or very sustainable Bretons.

JamesDX

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

Jamdarius

JamesDX wrote: »

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

No, because it would force DK's to have whip slotted and would work only for the MagDK

JamesDX

Jamdarius wrote: »

JamesDX wrote: »

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

No, because it would force DK's to have whip slotted and would work only for the MagDK

This thread is specifically about MagDK...

Jamdarius

JamesDX wrote: »

Jamdarius wrote: »

JamesDX wrote: »

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

No, because it would force DK's to have whip slotted and would work only for the MagDK

This thread is specifically about MagDK...

I know lol... But the way you go with it instead of having bonus on both bars we would only have additional flame bonus on the front bar (unless we double bar the whip), when thinking what to do to buff 1 role you cannot forget about others and you need to think through what can possibly boost what you want without dimnishing other roles/classes, that is what we call balance.

Sure if I would care about only Mag DK I would make a passive in mDK tree to give super flame bonus damage but once again stamDK players would be feeling abandoned.

The way I went about what I would change in DK and Dunmers

would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love )

I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

PS: Would be awesome to finally have execution skill. And also increase 1 morph of Fragmented Shield so that it would not be considered useless and destroy tanks casting their own shield version.

would of course still need some polishing but I think it would certainly buff both mag DK and stamDK and make Dunmers still good choice for being mDK compared to Altmers and Bretons. So I actually thought about more than 1 narrow minded aspect of just mDK.

SaintSubwayy

JamesDX wrote: »

Jamdarius wrote: »

JamesDX wrote: »

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

No, because it would force DK's to have whip slotted and would work only for the MagDK

This thread is specifically about MagDK...

PVE magDK

SaintSubwayy

Jamdarius wrote: »

JamesDX wrote: »

Jamdarius wrote: »

JamesDX wrote: »

Just change whip passive to "While slotted the damage you deal with fire attacks and abilities is increased by 7%"

No, because it would force DK's to have whip slotted and would work only for the MagDK

This thread is specifically about MagDK...

I know lol... But the way you go with it instead of having bonus on both bars we would only have additional flame bonus on the front bar (unless we double bar the whip), when thinking what to do to buff 1 role you cannot forget about others and you need to think through what can possibly boost what you want without dimnishing other roles/classes, that is what we call balance.

Sure if I would care about only Mag DK I would make a passive in mDK tree to give super flame bonus damage but once again stamDK players would be feeling abandoned.

The way I went about what I would change in DK and Dunmers

would add instead of 600 health bonus to Dunmers a passive that works like 5th effect of sun set adding 400 spell dmg to flame based attacks.

I would change Igneous Weapons to also recover highest resources while skill is active (so that it will be somewhat useful morph not like now) and add major brutality to molten weapons so that we would have a choice to make sustain vs more heavy attack damage.

I would add synergy to ash cloud/cinder storm (any kind would do - we need it, prefferable some kind of DPS group buff to make them more needed in end game PvE content)

I would change obsidian shard - either lower the cost to ~2,5k or leave cost as it is but on impact when healing causing AoE heal for half of what we healed main target (obsidian shard would become grenade like missile shattering on impact and stabbing allies in the area with our love )

I would create stam/poison whip morph, I still do not understand why there are so few skills for stam on a "Knight" type class.

PS: Would be awesome to finally have execution skill. And also increase 1 morph of Fragmented Shield so that it would not be considered useless and destroy tanks casting their own shield version.

would of course still need some polishing but I think it would certainly buff both mag DK and stamDK and make Dunmers still good choice for being mDK compared to Altmers and Bretons. So I actually thought about more than 1 narrow minded aspect of just mDK.

Rip dunmer...I dont even bother about them anymore...kitties with shadow seem to be way stronger anyways

Grianasteri

My MagDK is currently very effective and extremely fun to play.

Trials are a small part of the whole ESO content. I always feel caution is advisable when considering making a change to suite just one part of the game.

But I would not say no to a buff to my MagDK

SaintSubwayy

Grianasteri wrote: »

My MagDK is currently very effective and extremely fun to play.

Trials are a small part of the whole ESO content. I always feel caution is advisable when considering making a change to suite just one part of the game.

But I would not say no to a buff to my MagDK

Thats why i tried to keep the suggestions strong for pve but not as impactfull in pvp