The Neutral Zone Trap: A thorough look at CC in this game.

fullheartcontainer

With the recent PTS changes to Rapids, I thought it would be good to take a look at the state of Crowd Control abilities in this game. In collaboration with @Teiglin14 and their hockey insight, here we go. For the sake of this post, I will exclusively be talking about CC from the perspective of a PvP player.

@Teiglin14 -

"The Neutral Zone Trap: why slow-moving combat is effective but boring

In an attempt to explain why a game full of crown control abilities (stuns, slows, etc.) makes for boring and frustrating combat, I'm going to compare it to something totally different, so take this with a boulder of salt.

I see increasing frustration among players, especially PvPers, with the number of snares/slows/roots/stuns that have become an integral part of combat. There are many crowd control effects, some of which can be stacked with each other (hard CC's don't grant immunity to soft CC's and vice versa, and you can stack soft CC's). There are also some sets and monster helms that give CC's. Using CC's is a very effective, intelligent, and, quite frankly, necessary part of gameplay. And it's incredibly boring.

Combat is more exciting and attractive when it's back and forth. Literally. Back and forth with movement. Think of the greatest games in football, hockey, soccer, or even combat or sports scenes in movies. The action is part of the tension, and the tension is what makes it exciting. And PvP here has been favoring the opposite.

There is a tactic in ice hockey that was coined the "neutral zone trap", made popular in the late '90's. This highly effective defensive strategy clogs up the center of the arena with strategically placed players, preventing the opposing team from reaching anywhere near the goal. The team executing the trap isn't pushing forward either, placing the entire game in a confined area with little movement. This strategy leads to one team wonderfully controlling their environment and forcing the opposition to abandon the forward push. And it was widely criticized for creating boring, slow games with low scoring and low action. Rules have been enacted to oppose it. (Neutral zone trap)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_zone_trap

Like hockey in the late 90's, ESO has become a slow boring game. Effective and numerous sources of CC with very few sources of mitigation make every combat encounter in this game overly bogged down. Common complaints I've seen are the Battleground/ballgroups relying on Permafrost to get off ult-combos, effectively disallowing counterplay as you get stuck in heaps of damage.

When I talk about Crowd Control, I'm talking about a few different things. This is actually one of my core issues with CC in this game: there are numerous types of CC that can all be stacked on top of each other, and getting rid of one type of CC doesn't necessarily make you immune to the others. These include:

• Stunned
• Off-Balance
• Feared
• Silenced
• Rooted
• Snared
• Various Abilities that otherwise have unique CC

This is incredibly easy to abuse purposefully, a common example is the combination of Talons and Petrify by Dragonknights to juggle CC types and lock down an opponent, however I believe that with as much CC is in this game, it is a much more common issue for people to be unknowingly juggling opponents between different CC types simply due to the fact that most abilities in this game carry a CC.

This brings me to my main point: CC in this game is bloated. Not only are there so many different types, but nearly every ability in the game includes some form of CC. Following this post, I will list all non-set-related abilities containing CC.

So, what should we do about CC? My belief is that CC should be subcategorized into the following:

Major CC

• Stunned
• Feared
• Rooted
• Off-Balance

Minor CC

• Silenced
• Snared

With this change, the few abilities left that provide snare/root removal or immunity to CC should be changed and specified as to whether they provide immunity to Major, Minor, or both. Counterplay for both types of CC should be made available if the build allows it - if not for groups as Rapids previously did, then at an individual level.

Lastly, all abilities with CC should be looked at and asked the question: Why does this have CC? Does it need it? Any abilities that maintain their CC after this overhaul should be classified into the Major/Minor system, unlike special cases like Talons and Eclipse which don't quite fall under any current definitions.

Here is a list of all abilities in game with CC

---

Templar

• Biting Jabs - The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
• Puncturing Sweeps - The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
• Aurora Javelin - stuns for 1.8 seconds and knocks back 8 meters
• Binding Javelin - stuns for 3.1 seconds
• Explosive Charge - stuns for 3 seconds if target is casting
• Toppling Charge - stuns for 1.5 seconds. Sets off-balance if target is casting
• Solar Prison - synergy stuns all enemies for 5 seconds
• Solar Disturbance - synergy stuns all enemies for 2.5 seconds
• Vampire's Bane - Reduces movement speed by 40% for 9 seconds
• Reflective Light - Reduces movement speed by 40% for 5 seconds
• Total Dark - requires breakfree which drains stamina. Non-movement based CC
• Unstable Core - requires breakfree which drains stamina. Non-movement based CC
• Remembrance - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Practiced Incantation - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Ritual of Retribution - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Extended Ritual - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Channeled Focus - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Restoring Focus - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in

Dragonknight

• Shifting Standard - synergy immobilizes all enemies for 5 seconds. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Standard of Might - synergy immobilizes all enemies for 5 seconds. . Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Molten Whip - if target is immobile or stunned, sets them off-balance. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Flame Lash - if target is immobile or stunned, sets them off-balance. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Venemous Claw - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Burning Embers - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Noxious Breath - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Engulfing Flames - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Empowering Chains - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Unrelenting Grip - pulls a target to you. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Flames of Oblivion - Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Cauterize - Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Take Flight - knocks all enemies back and stuns for 2 seconds
• Ferocious Leap - knocks all enemies back and stuns for 2 seconds
• Burning Talons - immobilizes for 4 seconds (this ability does not grant cc immunity if broken free from or purged)
• Choking Talons - immobilizes for 4 seconds (this ability does not grant cc immunity if broken free from or purged)
• Deep Breath - if target is casting, they are stunned for 2 seconds and set off-balance for 5 seconds
• Obsidian Shard - stuns for 3 seconds
• Stone Giant - stuns for 3 seconds
• Fossilize - stuns for 2.5 seconds. Immobilizes for 3 seconds
• Shattering Rocks - stuns for 2.5 seconds
• Cinder Storm - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%
• Eruption - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%

Sorcerer

• Suppression Field - silences all enemies within aoe for 12 seconds
• Absorption Field - silences all enemies within aoe for 12 seconds
• Crystal Blast - stuns for 2 seconds
• Shattering Prison - immobilizes enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds
• Restraining Prison - immobilizes enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds
• Rune Cage - stuns for 3 seconds
• Defensive Rune - stuns for 3 seconds
• Daedric Tomb - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds
• Daedric Minefield - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds
• Greater Storm Atronach - stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds
• Summon Charged Atronach - stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds
• Volatile Familiar - stuns enemies hit for 3 seconds
• Streak - stuns enemies for 1.5 seconds
• Ball of Lightning - stuns enemies for 2 seconds

Nightblade

• Incapacitating Strike - stuns target for 3 seconds
• Lotus Fan - reduces movement speed by 60% for 8 seconds.
• Ambush - snares for 2 seconds
• Bolstering Darkness - reduces movement speed for enemies by 70%
• Veil of Blades - reduces movement speed for enemies by 70%
• Surprise Attack - (while attacking from stealth) sets target off-balance for 4 seconds
• Concealed Weapon - (while attacking from stealth) sets target off-balance for 4 seconds
• Mass Hysteria - causes fear for 2 enemies for 4 seconds. After they recover, their speed is reduced by 53% for 4 seconds
• Manifestation of Terror - can fear 6 enemies per trap, with two traps, for 4 seconds. After they recover, movement speed is reduced by 50% for 4 seconds.
• Soul Tether - stuns enemies for 4.5 seconds
• Debilitate - reduces target movement speed by 40%
• Crippling Grasp - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds and reduces movement speed by 40%

Warden

• Eternal Guardian - stuns enemies for 2 seconds on swipe attack
• Wild Guardian - stuns enemies for 2 seconds on swipe attack
• Northern Storm - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%
• Permafrost - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%. Stuns enemies for 3 seconds
• Gripping Shards - reduces enemy movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Immobilizes enemies for 3 seconds
• Winter's Revenge - reduces enemy movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds
• Arctic Blast - Stuns for 3 seconds
• Frozen Device - teleports target to you. Immobilizes for 3 seconds.
• Frozen Retreat - teleports target to you. Immobilizes for 3 seconds.

Two Handed

• Dizzying Swing - stuns for 3.5 seconds. Knocks back for 4 seconds.
• Stampede - reduces target movement speed by 60% for 8 seconds

One-Hand and Shield

• Deep Slash - reduce target movement speed by 60% for 12 seconds
• Heroic Slash - reduce target movement speed by 60% for 12 seconds
• Shielded Assault - stuns for 3 seconds
• Invasion - Stuns for 3 seconds minimum, and up to 88% longer based on distance traveled
• Reverberating Bash - stuns for 3 seconds

Dual-Wield

• Rending Slashes - reduce movement speed by 40% for 9 seconds
• Shrouded Daggers - reduces target movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds
• Flying Blade - reduces target movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds

Bow

• Magnum Shot - knocks target and self back 6 meters each. Stuns target for 1.5 seconds
• Draining Shot - knocks target back 6 meters and stuns them for 1.5 seconds
• Bombard - immobolizes enemies for 2 seconds unless they are snared. When they can move again, movement speed is reduced by 40% for 6 seconds
• Acid Spray - reduces enemy movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds
• Venom Arrow - if target is casting, they are set off balance and stunned for 3 seconds

Destruction Staff

• Icy Rage - immobilizes enemies hit by 3 seconds
• Eye of Frost - immobilizes enemies hit by 3 seconds
• Crushing Shock - enemies that are casting will be set off-balance and stunned for 3 seconds
• Wall of Frost - reduces enemy movement speed and immobilizes chilled enemies
• Wall of Storms - sets concussed enemies off-balance
• Blockade of Frost - reduces enemy movement speed and immobilizes chilled enemies
• Blockade of Storms - sets concussed enemies off-balance
• Flame Clench - knocks target back
• Frost Clench - immobilizes the target
• Shock Clench - stuns the target
• Flame Reach - knocks target back
• Frost Reach - immobilizes the target
• Shock Reach - stuns the target

Fighters Guild

• Dawnbreaker of Smiting - stuns for 1.8 seconds
• Silver Shards - reduces movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds
• Silver Leash - Pulls target to you. Reduces movement speed by 40% for 4 seconds
• Turn Undead - fears undead targets for 4 seconds
• Rearming Trap - immobilizes for 6 seconds
• Lightweight Beast Trap - immobilizes for 6 seconds

Mages Guild

• Ice Comet - knocks enemies in area back. Stuns for 2 seconds. Reduces movement speed for enemies by 50% for 5 seconds
• Shooting Star - knocks enemies in area back. Stuns for 2 seconds.
• Volcanic Rune - knocks up any enemies, stuns them for 10 seconds

Psijic Order

• Borrowed Time - slows enemies followed by a 3 second stun
• Time Freeze - slows enemies followed by 3 second stun

Undaunted

• Shadow Silk - reduces enemies movement speed by 50%
• Tangling Webs - reduces enemies movement speed by 50%. Synergy causes a 35 second fear

Alliance

• Anti-Cavalry Caltrops- reduces enemies movement speed by 30%
• Razor Caltrops - reduces enemies movement speed by 30%. Initial explosion reduces movement speed by 70% for 3 seconds
• Lingering Flare - enemies exposed by ability are reduced movement speed 50%
• Scorching Flare - enemies exposed by ability are reduced movement speed 50%

Werewolf

• Ferocious Roar - fears up to 6 enemies for 3.3 seconds and sets them off-balance for 5 seconds
• Deafening Roar - fears up to 6 enemies for 3.3 seconds

Vampire

• Invigorating Drain - stuns enemy for 3 seconds. After feeding, target is set off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds
• Accelerating Drain - stuns enemy for 3 seconds. After feeding, target is set off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds

KenaPKK

Hmmm.

While I do not necessarily agree with your specific solution, I do understand your frustration and the direction in which you wish for CC in ESO to go -- smoother and more mobile gameplay with more transparent action and reaction. I also appreciate the visualization of listing CCs available to each class and weapon line.

I think the best takeaway from this post is your explanation of the neutral zone trap in hockey. I'd never heard of that or its history in hockey, and I definitely see and feel the parallels happening in ESO. Thanks for this.

usmcjdking

This is a really great write-up.

aetherial_heavenn

I think the OP has an elegant solution but others may disagree. What we can hope for is that the combat lead and team read this, as it may explain a level of frustration in PvP that is felt and spoken of, but rarely articulated so clearly.

When I came to ESO in early 2016, we chose it because the PvP which while zergy, was fast paced and fun. I don't like the steady shift to 'lock em down with 6 types of cc's and insta burst' direction we have been heading in. I am assuming they are changing retreating manoevre to take away the stun removal that 'Rapids Guy' does in ball groups. I would point out, 'Rapids Guy' is a direct counter to the many permutations of stackable hard/ soft/unique CC effects in the game.

For me, as a healer it is analogous to PvE boss one-shot mechanics. OR NPCs only having only CCs in a PvE dungeon. Used occasionally these mechanics provide a fun challenge but when used all the time they wear thin. In another game I played, the player base started calling called Dunland, 'Stunland' because of an overused stun mechanic. What was otherwise a great expansion became notoriously tedious because of it.

I don't want a twitch reflex, can't play if you lag, ultra fast game. But I would like an alternative to everything feeling like I'm drowning in custard.

In the interests of full disclosure I do play mag. But in our open to zone discord channel, I hear stam players commenting on the CC slowing the game down, and limiting playstyles, too.

Mashille

Really nice in depth look at the sheer amount of disables in ESO and the problems they cause.

kypranb14_ESO

Why is off-balance considered a CC? I'm pretty sure that it's not. If you get heavy attacked while off-balance it will stun you, and grant the attacker 100% additional resource return however.

- I think a Major/Minor system on snares would be great. 10%/30% seem like good numbers as they would be a direct counter to Major/Minor Expedition.
- I also think that Minor Snares should be allowed to have greater duration, but Major snares should be capped at 4 seconds similarly to their Expedition counterparts.

fullheartcontainer

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is off-balance considered a CC? .

Strictly speaking, you're right in PvP it's not as much a CC as in PvE, but it is as you said a method by which people can place additional stuns to you. It's worth listing these as they can be equated to stun-allowance

heavier

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

With the recent PTS changes to Rapids, I thought it would be good to take a look at the state of Crowd Control abilities in this game. In collaboration with @Teiglin14 and their hockey insight, here we go. For the sake of this post, I will exclusively be talking about CC from the perspective of a PvP player.

@Teiglin14 -

"The Neutral Zone Trap: why slow-moving combat is effective but boring

In an attempt to explain why a game full of crown control abilities (stuns, slows, etc.) makes for boring and frustrating combat, I'm going to compare it to something totally different, so take this with a boulder of salt.

I see increasing frustration among players, especially PvPers, with the number of snares/slows/roots/stuns that have become an integral part of combat. There are many crowd control effects, some of which can be stacked with each other (hard CC's don't grant immunity to soft CC's and vice versa, and you can stack soft CC's). There are also some sets and monster helms that give CC's. Using CC's is a very effective, intelligent, and, quite frankly, necessary part of gameplay. And it's incredibly boring.

Combat is more exciting and attractive when it's back and forth. Literally. Back and forth with movement. Think of the greatest games in football, hockey, soccer, or even combat or sports scenes in movies. The action is part of the tension, and the tension is what makes it exciting. And PvP here has been favoring the opposite.

There is a tactic in ice hockey that was coined the "neutral zone trap", made popular in the late '90's. This highly effective defensive strategy clogs up the center of the arena with strategically placed players, preventing the opposing team from reaching anywhere near the goal. The team executing the trap isn't pushing forward either, placing the entire game in a confined area with little movement. This strategy leads to one team wonderfully controlling their environment and forcing the opposition to abandon the forward push. And it was widely criticized for creating boring, slow games with low scoring and low action. Rules have been enacted to oppose it. (Neutral zone trap)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutral_zone_trap

Like hockey in the late 90's, ESO has become a slow boring game. Effective and numerous sources of CC with very few sources of mitigation make every combat encounter in this game overly bogged down. Common complaints I've seen are the Battleground/ballgroups relying on Permafrost to get off ult-combos, effectively disallowing counterplay as you get stuck in heaps of damage.

When I talk about Crowd Control, I'm talking about a few different things. This is actually one of my core issues with CC in this game: there are numerous types of CC that can all be stacked on top of each other, and getting rid of one type of CC doesn't necessarily make you immune to the others. These include:

• Stunned
• Off-Balance
• Feared
• Silenced
• Rooted
• Snared
• Various Abilities that otherwise have unique CC

This is incredibly easy to abuse purposefully, a common example is the combination of Talons and Petrify by Dragonknights to juggle CC types and lock down an opponent, however I believe that with as much CC is in this game, it is a much more common issue for people to be unknowingly juggling opponents between different CC types simply due to the fact that most abilities in this game carry a CC.

This brings me to my main point: CC in this game is bloated. Not only are there so many different types, but nearly every ability in the game includes some form of CC. Following this post, I will list all non-set-related abilities containing CC.

So, what should we do about CC? My belief is that CC should be subcategorized into the following:

Major CC

• Stunned
• Feared
• Rooted
• Off-Balance

Minor CC

• Silenced
• Snared

With this change, the few abilities left that provide snare/root removal or immunity to CC should be changed and specified as to whether they provide immunity to Major, Minor, or both. Counterplay for both types of CC should be made available if the build allows it - if not for groups as Rapids previously did, then at an individual level.

Lastly, all abilities with CC should be looked at and asked the question: Why does this have CC? Does it need it? Any abilities that maintain their CC after this overhaul should be classified into the Major/Minor system, unlike special cases like Talons and Eclipse which don't quite fall under any current definitions.

Here is a list of all abilities in game with CC

---

Templar

• Biting Jabs - The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
• Puncturing Sweeps - The final strike reduces the Movement Speed of the closest enemy by 70% for 2 seconds
• Aurora Javelin - stuns for 1.8 seconds and knocks back 8 meters
• Binding Javelin - stuns for 3.1 seconds
• Explosive Charge - stuns for 3 seconds if target is casting
• Toppling Charge - stuns for 1.5 seconds. Sets off-balance if target is casting
• Solar Prison - synergy stuns all enemies for 5 seconds
• Solar Disturbance - synergy stuns all enemies for 2.5 seconds
• Vampire's Bane - Reduces movement speed by 40% for 9 seconds
• Reflective Light - Reduces movement speed by 40% for 5 seconds
• Total Dark - requires breakfree which drains stamina. Non-movement based CC
• Unstable Core - requires breakfree which drains stamina. Non-movement based CC
• Remembrance - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Practiced Incantation - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Ritual of Retribution - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Extended Ritual - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Channeled Focus - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in
• Restoring Focus - reduced enemy movement by 15% while standing in

Dragonknight

• Shifting Standard - synergy immobilizes all enemies for 5 seconds. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Standard of Might - synergy immobilizes all enemies for 5 seconds. . Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Molten Whip - if target is immobile or stunned, sets them off-balance. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Flame Lash - if target is immobile or stunned, sets them off-balance. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Venemous Claw - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Burning Embers - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Noxious Breath - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Engulfing Flames - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Empowering Chains - reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Unrelenting Grip - pulls a target to you. Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Flames of Oblivion - Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Cauterize - Reduces speed by 30% for 4 seconds
• Take Flight - knocks all enemies back and stuns for 2 seconds
• Ferocious Leap - knocks all enemies back and stuns for 2 seconds
• Burning Talons - immobilizes for 4 seconds (this ability does not grant cc immunity if broken free from or purged)
• Choking Talons - immobilizes for 4 seconds (this ability does not grant cc immunity if broken free from or purged)
• Deep Breath - if target is casting, they are stunned for 2 seconds and set off-balance for 5 seconds
• Obsidian Shard - stuns for 3 seconds
• Stone Giant - stuns for 3 seconds
• Fossilize - stuns for 2.5 seconds. Immobilizes for 3 seconds
• Shattering Rocks - stuns for 2.5 seconds
• Cinder Storm - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%
• Eruption - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%

Sorcerer

• Suppression Field - silences all enemies within aoe for 12 seconds
• Absorption Field - silences all enemies within aoe for 12 seconds
• Crystal Blast - stuns for 2 seconds
• Shattering Prison - immobilizes enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds
• Restraining Prison - immobilizes enemies in front of you for 4.5 seconds
• Rune Cage - stuns for 3 seconds
• Defensive Rune - stuns for 3 seconds
• Daedric Tomb - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds
• Daedric Minefield - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds
• Greater Storm Atronach - stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds
• Summon Charged Atronach - stuns nearby enemies for 3 seconds
• Volatile Familiar - stuns enemies hit for 3 seconds
• Streak - stuns enemies for 1.5 seconds
• Ball of Lightning - stuns enemies for 2 seconds

Nightblade

• Incapacitating Strike - stuns target for 3 seconds
• Lotus Fan - reduces movement speed by 60% for 8 seconds.
• Ambush - snares for 2 seconds
• Bolstering Darkness - reduces movement speed for enemies by 70%
• Veil of Blades - reduces movement speed for enemies by 70%
• Surprise Attack - (while attacking from stealth) sets target off-balance for 4 seconds
• Concealed Weapon - (while attacking from stealth) sets target off-balance for 4 seconds
• Mass Hysteria - causes fear for 2 enemies for 4 seconds. After they recover, their speed is reduced by 53% for 4 seconds
• Manifestation of Terror - can fear 6 enemies per trap, with two traps, for 4 seconds. After they recover, movement speed is reduced by 50% for 4 seconds.
• Soul Tether - stuns enemies for 4.5 seconds
• Debilitate - reduces target movement speed by 40%
• Crippling Grasp - immobilizes for 1.5 seconds and reduces movement speed by 40%

Warden

• Eternal Guardian - stuns enemies for 2 seconds on swipe attack
• Wild Guardian - stuns enemies for 2 seconds on swipe attack
• Northern Storm - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%
• Permafrost - reduces enemy movement speed by 70%. Stuns enemies for 3 seconds
• Gripping Shards - reduces enemy movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds. Immobilizes enemies for 3 seconds
• Winter's Revenge - reduces enemy movement speed by 30% for 3 seconds
• Arctic Blast - Stuns for 3 seconds
• Frozen Device - teleports target to you. Immobilizes for 3 seconds.
• Frozen Retreat - teleports target to you. Immobilizes for 3 seconds.

Two Handed

• Dizzying Swing - stuns for 3.5 seconds. Knocks back for 4 seconds.
• Stampede - reduces target movement speed by 60% for 8 seconds

One-Hand and Shield

• Deep Slash - reduce target movement speed by 60% for 12 seconds
• Heroic Slash - reduce target movement speed by 60% for 12 seconds
• Shielded Assault - stuns for 3 seconds
• Invasion - Stuns for 3 seconds minimum, and up to 88% longer based on distance traveled
• Reverberating Bash - stuns for 3 seconds

Dual-Wield

• Rending Slashes - reduce movement speed by 40% for 9 seconds
• Shrouded Daggers - reduces target movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds
• Flying Blade - reduces target movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds

Bow

• Magnum Shot - knocks target and self back 6 meters each. Stuns target for 1.5 seconds
• Draining Shot - knocks target back 6 meters and stuns them for 1.5 seconds
• Bombard - immobolizes enemies for 2 seconds unless they are snared. When they can move again, movement speed is reduced by 40% for 6 seconds
• Acid Spray - reduces enemy movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds
• Venom Arrow - if target is casting, they are set off balance and stunned for 3 seconds

Destruction Staff

• Icy Rage - immobilizes enemies hit by 3 seconds
• Eye of Frost - immobilizes enemies hit by 3 seconds
• Crushing Shock - enemies that are casting will be set off-balance and stunned for 3 seconds
• Wall of Frost - reduces enemy movement speed and immobilizes chilled enemies
• Wall of Storms - sets concussed enemies off-balance
• Blockade of Frost - reduces enemy movement speed and immobilizes chilled enemies
• Blockade of Storms - sets concussed enemies off-balance
• Flame Clench - knocks target back
• Frost Clench - immobilizes the target
• Shock Clench - stuns the target
• Flame Reach - knocks target back
• Frost Reach - immobilizes the target
• Shock Reach - stuns the target

Fighters Guild

• Dawnbreaker of Smiting - stuns for 1.8 seconds
• Silver Shards - reduces movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds
• Silver Leash - Pulls target to you. Reduces movement speed by 40% for 4 seconds
• Turn Undead - fears undead targets for 4 seconds
• Rearming Trap - immobilizes for 6 seconds
• Lightweight Beast Trap - immobilizes for 6 seconds

Mages Guild

• Ice Comet - knocks enemies in area back. Stuns for 2 seconds. Reduces movement speed for enemies by 50% for 5 seconds
• Shooting Star - knocks enemies in area back. Stuns for 2 seconds.
• Volcanic Rune - knocks up any enemies, stuns them for 10 seconds

Psijic Order

• Borrowed Time - slows enemies followed by a 3 second stun
• Time Freeze - slows enemies followed by 3 second stun

Undaunted

• Shadow Silk - reduces enemies movement speed by 50%
• Tangling Webs - reduces enemies movement speed by 50%. Synergy causes a 35 second fear

Alliance

• Anti-Cavalry Caltrops- reduces enemies movement speed by 30%
• Razor Caltrops - reduces enemies movement speed by 30%. Initial explosion reduces movement speed by 70% for 3 seconds
• Lingering Flare - enemies exposed by ability are reduced movement speed 50%
• Scorching Flare - enemies exposed by ability are reduced movement speed 50%

Werewolf

• Ferocious Roar - fears up to 6 enemies for 3.3 seconds and sets them off-balance for 5 seconds
• Deafening Roar - fears up to 6 enemies for 3.3 seconds

Vampire

• Invigorating Drain - stuns enemy for 3 seconds. After feeding, target is set off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds
• Accelerating Drain - stuns enemy for 3 seconds. After feeding, target is set off-balance and stunned for 4 seconds

all these CC are copy pasted from existing MMO
what ESO devs forgot when copy pasting is to add cooldowns to skills
furthermore CC immunity makes for 2x as effective offense and 1/2 as effective defense.
think about it. under pressure you can do literally nothing but wait for the CC immune timer to expire and heal/block.
confrontation is decided by inherent build tankiness and how high the burst DPS is.

movement and even the need to chain abilities take the backseat.

heavier

kypranb14_ESO wrote: »

Why is off-balance considered a CC? I'm pretty sure that it's not. If you get heavy attacked while off-balance it will stun you, and grant the attacker 100% additional resource return however.

- I think a Major/Minor system on snares would be great. 10%/30% seem like good numbers as they would be a direct counter to Major/Minor Expedition.
- I also think that Minor Snares should be allowed to have greater duration, but Major snares should be capped at 4 seconds similarly to their Expedition counterparts.

or ground snare debuff could stack with each tick and have a ceiling like normal mmo does...

heavier

also let's not forget gapclose when we're dismantling movement lol
makes running from a fight almost impossible

the hockey analogy is pretty on point

Jimmy_The_Fixer

Why consider silence a “minor CC”? on many builds silence prevents the use of 10 out of 10 abilities in their bars. Rootspam is frustrating but it’s nowhere near that crippling.

Morgul667

Quite interesting thanks

Overall a good idea, reduce qty of skills that cc people

Iskiab

I don't think cc is overpowered. Maybe try not clustering together for buffs and heals so you don't have a huge target painted on your group?

If anything it's still underpowered, a lot of cyrodiil groups use tight clusters as a strategy, if cc was overpowered they would have stopped by now. The intent of crowd control is to stop strategies of this nature.

There needs to be more area effect cc, not less.

Iskiab

Iskiab wrote: »

I don't think cc is overpowered. Maybe try not clustering together for buffs and heals so you don't have a huge target painted on your group?

If anything it's still underpowered, a lot of cyrodiil groups use tight clusters as a strategy, if cc was overpowered they would have stopped by now. The intent of crowd control is to stop strategies of this nature.

There needs to be more area effect cc, not less.

Actually I take that back, cc is perfect right now. What's needed are better aoe damage ranged abilities, inevitable detonation and one destruction staff ranged ability isn't enough.

fullheartcontainer

Jimmy_The_Fixer wrote: »

Why consider silence a “minor CC”? on many builds silence prevents the use of 10 out of 10 abilities in their bars. Rootspam is frustrating but it’s nowhere near that crippling.

I consider this minor because you can just walk out of it

Royaji

So you just want to rename hard CCs to Major and soft CCs to Minor? And put roots under hard CCs? Even though by definition hard CCs should limit all of your control and roots only prevent you from moving and not using skills?

Also adding silence to CCs even though there is exactly one skill in the game that provides it? And that skill is ground AoE 200 cost ultimate with fairly small radius...

Why is off-balance even there? It's not a CC and the stun it *can* lead to is subject to all regular stun (and thus all other hard CC) rules.

There are already enough counterplays to hard CC too. Immovability pots and the fact that all of them can be broken leading to 6 second immunity to all of them. I admit, some CCs are buggy but that is not a design issue. Bugs should be fixed.

The sluggish gameplay is a soft CCs issue. Specifically snares since they are not subject to a streamlined minor/major system and are all other the place. Abundance of snares is a problem and some of them have to go (duh). They can be a bit less effective overall too.

Root spam can be annoying but it is mostly problematic because of snares since you can't walk away from root spammer. Roots can also be broken by roll dodge and are pretty essential for kiting (or whatever there is left of it).

Feanor

Awesome posting. The amount of snares and immobilizes is staggering.

danno8

Feanor wrote: »

Awesome posting. The amount of snares and immobilizes is staggering.

It is a lot.

Although it is a bit disingenuous, since he uses base skills and then the morph that still has the base skills effect in it.

fullheartcontainer

danno8 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Awesome posting. The amount of snares and immobilizes is staggering.

It is a lot.

Although it is a bit disingenuous, since he uses base skills and then the morph that still has the base skills effect in it.

Actually no, I only used morphs in this @danno8

Mr_Walker

Iskiab wrote: »

I don't think cc is overpowered. Maybe try not clustering together for buffs and heals so you don't have a huge target painted on your group?

If anything it's still underpowered, a lot of cyrodiil groups use tight clusters as a strategy, if cc was overpowered they would have stopped by now. The intent of crowd control is to stop strategies of this nature.

There needs to be more area effect cc, not less.

A lot of people use tight clusters because you can have a guy running rapids to counter the spamming of CC by the opponent group. Look upon it as a symptom, rather than the problem. Plus, you know, teamwork.

IMO more CCs will have the game hemorrhaging players.

danno8

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Awesome posting. The amount of snares and immobilizes is staggering.

It is a lot.

Although it is a bit disingenuous, since he uses base skills and then the morph that still has the base skills effect in it.

Actually no, I only used morphs in this @danno8

My mistake, nevertheless since the two skills cannot coexist on the same character, they aren't really separate when making the point of abundance.

This games uniqueness is also its problem. No cool down on skills means endless snaring or rooting. But there is also no cool downs on speed boosts or skills that provide immunities to such CC.

Balancing those two playstyles, where one can't forever be snared and the other can't be forever outmanoevered is a huge challenge for ZoS.

StarOfElyon

It's like the neutral zone trap only that you're forced to play without a goalie too so that they can dump the Puck into your empty net every time you turn it over.