Making Hybrids Viable for Dunmer Players

orion_1981usub17_ESO

Hey folks,
With the favorite and most awesome race of Tamriel being pigeonholed into a very awkward position, its time to come together and put our superior intellects together and figure out how we can make an actual hybrid viable for each class (necromancer not included due to tribunal opposition).

Issue #1: Gearing.
Currently the only viable hybrid sets in game seem to be exclusively crafting sets, shacklebreaker and mechanical acuity to name a few. But outside of crafting the dungeon sets meant for hybrid swing one way or another usually only throwing a bone of one bonus vs three. On top of that only three monster helms are viable for hybrids being molag kena, balorgh, and dominhaus.


In the end we dunmer, need good sets that make hybrids viable. (and I will happily craft you a set for the right price until they do give us sets designed for hybrids. PS4)


Issue #2: splitting stat points, champion points.
Every player knows trying to split stat points and champion points is bad juju, if your putting 50/50, then the guy with 100 in 1 generally outpaces you. I personally don't see anyway around this so its likely that true hybrids are always gonna win second place. Except if your splitting your skills

In the end dunmer will have two resources to pull from, can it work? We must try!

Issue #3: splitting skills
When I was a young dunmer 5 years ago, I wanted to play a hybrid templar casting heals and using s/b, today I use destro/destro cause its simply more effective (and burning heretics was fun). But a good hybrid today will likely need to split between a staff and weapon set up. Maybe we can make my templar that shield charges straight into the enemy and drops a flame wall (likely ice wall soon)....sigh I will miss the fire buff.

Thinking of spammable magicka/stamina combos maybe be the only thing to keep our race alive, so Redoran and Telavani had better have a sit down.

Issue #4: on dealing with Vampires and werewolves
Though these creatures are abominations before the blessed tribunal, some folks might think its a easy way to power. However werewolves will likely lag behind in hybrids more than vampires, and vamps still get some much need fire resistance. We'll just have to wait and see if creatures of the night add anything to a good hybrid build.

So folks, that's all for tonight. For some reason ZOS has mistakenly placed our races as a number 2, which is highly offensive and likely a fatal mistake to those that believe this. We as the master race, must not fear the racial passive changes but embrace them as a liberation. We will blend the arts of death....or we will quickly become the least played race, and I for one wont accept that.

LeagueTroll

Or give fire dmg? How is red mountain not associated with fire? Dark elf with fire dmg bonus was totally lore friendly already.

WrathOfInnos

Eventually the champion point system was going to become very good for hybrids. Pure builds are getting close to the point where they max out the relevant trees. Every CP increase barely benefits pure builds, while significantly buffing hybrids. Too bad the increases have now stopped, due to people complaining about power creep.

RedFireDisco

The problem with hybrids is penetration and crit. By the time you stretch your resources and attributes to get within a reasonable degree of a normal build, the problem is penetration is hard to buff for both stats, though not impossible. If you do aim to buff with a sharpened weapon and lover stone, your spell/weapon damage is low.

You can't slot inner light and camo hunter either. It's just untenable

If you use Pelinal's you lose a 5th slot stat because all it does is gives you equal spell/weapon damage. So there needs to be something new happen to give viability to hybrids.

Maybe a specific hybrid set that matches spell/weapon damage pen and crit?

Jamdarius

The problem for making good hybrid builds for end game PvE is not Gear/Skills dependant at all, the reason hybrids are not good in PvE at all comes from really bad system design of skills and passives:
1. CP - to be top you have to either be soecced into tank heal or stam DPS or mag DPS to fully benefit from it
2. Armor passives do not allow you to benefit from them

As long as the 2 above will not change there is no way to make a viable PvE hybrid build no matter the sets.
However it is different story for PvP, I believe Dunmers will perform quite nice on PvP.

Kadoin

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Eventually the champion point system was going to become very good for hybrids. Pure builds are getting close to the point where they max out the relevant trees. Every CP increase barely benefits pure builds, while significantly buffing hybrids. Too bad the increases have now stopped, due to people complaining about power creep.

Hybrids are already on top in PvP... DK and templar at least, NB too if you have the skill...

Trancestor

Kadoin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Eventually the champion point system was going to become very good for hybrids. Pure builds are getting close to the point where they max out the relevant trees. Every CP increase barely benefits pure builds, while significantly buffing hybrids. Too bad the increases have now stopped, due to people complaining about power creep.

Hybrids are already on top in PvP... DK and templar at least, NB too if you have the skill...

Good? Yes. On top? Lol no.

Zacuel

If hybrids we're more viable then most of us wouldn't be so bothered by the changes.

I fear that despite our best efforts we simply cannot compete with a pve hybrid dd build.

I'm not saying it's not possible.

I just don't see "hey, we need your hybrid dd to help clear this vet trial" happening anytime doon.

Thankfully I do pvp. So there's that I guess.

Ermiq

Hybrids are quite good in PvP.
In PvE hybrids are completely useless. No matter what sets you use, no matter how your CPs are allocated. One-stat builds are always perform much better in PvE, with only one exception: some hybrid tank builds are quite good, but... Dunmer-tank because we get +600 HP? Makes me laugh.
However, we are not BiS in PvE now, and we will not, so nothing changes actually. Just like now we're playing Dunmer because of either aesthetics or PvP, we'll continue doing the same.

orion_1981usub17_ESO

So What we need are sets that reward the splitting of stats and skills.

Hear me out. We already have drauger hulk, mothers sorrow, spinners, ect. The sets are what often make specialization important. As well as skill bonus proc sets like soria or burning spellweave.

So what Hybirds need are sets that grant stats on the basis of the attribute spread. such as granting both stamina and magicka to the same level as drauger hulk but to both stats so long as they are split. so 50/50 would give you 100/100 but going 60/40 would correspond to a stat drop of 80/20. and so forth and so forth. Sets would be required for raw stats, penetration, ect. You could also have sets that require two effects and give a corresponding proc buff. Such as causing both poison and flaming would give you a damage bonus that is 1.25-1.5 higher than a single proc set (since you must use two skills)

With out any game mechanics that reward stat splitting and make it viable, then dunmer will be a race always receiving half a racial bonus.

Ajax_22

orion_1981usub17_ESO wrote: »

With the favorite and most awesome race of Tamriel being pigeonholed into a very awkward position,

Dunmer aren't in an awkward position. They are now the top Stamina DPS race as far as damage potential goes, and third best Magic DPS race. For anything other than the top one percent of players who run hardcore trials groups no one will really notice a significant change.

Hybrids aren't viable because to be effective at anything you have to stack a single stat. Hybrid sets try to fix this by increasing the power of the lesser stat to the higher stat. However, they usually also split stats for their smaller set bonuses, and only equalize a single stat. To make hybrids viable you would need a set that increases your highest crit, damage, penetration, and max Stam/Magic by 25-50% of the lower value then makes both of the same value after all other bonuses are applied. A set like this is the only way to make hybrids work. However, a set like this also has the potential to be very broken.

Jitterbug

Dunmer, 5 shackle, 5 trainee, 1 domihaus, 1 kena

ToRelax

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Eventually the champion point system was going to become very good for hybrids. Pure builds are getting close to the point where they max out the relevant trees. Every CP increase barely benefits pure builds, while significantly buffing hybrids. Too bad the increases have now stopped, due to people complaining about power creep.

The current champion system by nature favours specialized builds and always will until such a time when you can max out stars relevant for any build. Of course hybrids would gain more with a CP increase today - because they are still behind in the benefit they already got and so not yet effected as much by diminishing returns.

Kadoin wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Eventually the champion point system was going to become very good for hybrids. Pure builds are getting close to the point where they max out the relevant trees. Every CP increase barely benefits pure builds, while significantly buffing hybrids. Too bad the increases have now stopped, due to people complaining about power creep.

Hybrids are already on top in PvP... DK and templar at least, NB too if you have the skill...

Not even close.

MartiniDaniels

Zacuel wrote: »

If hybrids we're more viable then most of us wouldn't be so bothered by the changes.

I fear that despite our best efforts we simply cannot compete with a pve hybrid dd build.

I'm not saying it's not possible.

I just don't see "hey, we need your hybrid dd to help clear this vet trial" happening anytime doon.

Thankfully I do pvp. So there's that I guess.

It's impossible in pve. Magdps or stamdps will just lay down dots while wearing something like juli+ms or hundings+sprrigan and will do twice more damage then hybrid will do combining maelstrom bow with maelstrom inferno, using best skills in the game, etc..
It's just how damage scales in this game, it increases non-linearly. I.e. + 250 damage with crit 30% and penetration 3k is not the same as +250 damage with crit 80% and penetration 9k.

Nebthet78

Had they kept the Caps on all of our Stats that we had prior to the CP system, then hybrid builds would still be viable today, and there would be a whole lot more diversity in this game than we currently have.

They need to reinstitute Caps on all our stats, in addition to capping maximum achievable DPS in order to prevent the ceiling from raising any further than it already is from the middle and lower tier players.