Lets talk Justice System Revamp.

Thevampirenight

The justice system, was added for immersion, adding crime to the game. But I do think it was added for other reasons such as dealing witht bots farming for expensive items to sell. Making it a lot harder for them to town farm. Where it is at right now is well universal. If you steal someones carrot the guards in ad or ep, the guards in dc will all know about it. Certain Crimes we know of are stealing, murder, and trespassing and assault.

What I would like to see with the reformed Justice system. I'm thinking coding is the main reason why they made it universal as they didn't want to program it in for each zone. I'm guessing they were rushing to finish it. They originally wanted to add a Enforcer system. To allow players to go after other player then realized how bad of an idea this might be for many folks that don't want other players killing them and taking their stuff so like class change tokens it was given the not ever happening treatment. Since then they did the two crime dlcs. Added in New mechanics, but still with the unrealistic everyone knows what you did.

Edited to add this since some mistaken this idea for another pvp open world justice system, This is Pve Only no pvp justice enforcement It would only cause to many problems. However with risk of npc bounty hunters spawning near your location if its higher then 500,000 gold to try and take it off of you. Even harder bounty hunters to fight off would be sent per million bounty you have. So they can add in the Enforcer system but only a npc one. Npcs hunt the players, players don't hunt other players for their crimes.

Well what I would like to see is the revamp functions in stages a lot like vampirism. If they can't do that then I would like to see it just apply to whatever faction you are in.
Stage one those who would know of your crime are local, the zone you are in or just the city. Basically think of a ping, effect that announces a crime. In a big city wide ping. So all the guards know to be on the look out. Things like minor theft, and attempting pick locking won't generate heat until the item is say rare, uncommon, very rare, epic. Legendary. Depending on the value the higher the bounty and heat. Stage one would be local, less then 2000 worth in bounty. Stage one elevates to stage two, if the bounty is not paid. Stage two is bounties higher then 2500 to 15000, If it reaches up to 15000 it goes automatically to the entire alliance knowing about it. The Entire zone you got the bounty knows about it. So guards will be on the look out. If its not paid off within five or ten minutes, then stage three the entire alliance you are in knows about the bounty. Stage Four, Bounties over 500000 Every alliance knows about it. Will attempt to attack you on sight. Till its paid off.

The Jailing, Prison System. The major major big thing about any justice system being locked up. Right now there is only two options pay or flee.
Here is how they could do it.
The jailing system would work in two ways. Do the time or work the bounty off. If you do the time, you get a black screen, an illusionary effect that you spent your time, and depending on how much bounty you owed it would come with its own consequences. A bounty less then 2000, it does not do anything. a Bounty of 2001 up to 50000, a Skills random skills exp progress is reset. With a 2 percent chance of one of your other skills leveling up by one Bounties over 50000 several skills skill exp bars are reset and you lose progress in the skill lines rank. Bounties over 250000 cause you to lose, progress in all skills and skillines when it comes with exp, baring guild skilline progress from this as they have special conditions which to level them up. So fighters Guild, Mages Guild, Pjiic, Dark Brotherhood and Theives Guild would never be effected. Bounties over 500000, you lose progress plus two levels. Or all progress in current cp points. Bounties over 1,000,000 your own alliance guards and soliders will attack you in all pvp zones. A chance bounty hunters will spawn next to you to try and turn you into a prison. If it goes over 2 million. Forcing you to fight them off. IF you survive you get to keep going on if not, well prison will reset your levels by five, if its over 5m by 20. Why so harsh well because crime does not pay and doing such horrible things should have high costs just like in real life.
Edited to add something I should have talked about here. But I am now.
Jail Escape!

What they could do with this is add in a special storage chest, that keeps all your items that were taken away including stolen goods. Escaping should be a challenge, guards patroling the jails prisons, like the single player games players would have one or two lockpicks. A secret wall maybe in some of the jails or prisons maybe an rng element to which cell has the secret escape route. If your lucky you have it easy for escaping the prison and jails and because of how embarrasing it is. The guards won't really report your escape and if you make it out you are in the clear as for bounty. But if its done in more then one day then its not. But this would do one other important thing if you have a fancy legendary item you don't want to risk losing and you got a bounty going to jail could be an option so players can have a chance of retrieving it.It wouldn't go without its risks but a chance to retrieve and keep it would be a lot better then guards killing you and taking it anyways.

As for the jails prisons, each alliance would get their own special place to send criminals either it be locally or in a certain zone.
I know coding might restrict them from what they can do, but I think they could add in a prison system. Along with a bounty heat system that ends up spreading to letting your entire alliance know. Would make it so much better.

Stage One- Small Time Criminal after ten minutes guards will send out mages or court wizards to inform the rest of the zone of your criminality or five minutes if you bounty reaches over 5000 and one minutes if it reaches over 25000. and you become Stage two- Locally know if its not payed off within a couple of hours or if more crimes are committed and you are caught then bounty increases then you become Alliance known. Stage 3 Infamous. All the guards in the alliance where you did your crimes will know about you and will go after you. Stage four- Very Infamous , this can only be reached and isn't on the timer if you get a bounty more then 500,000. Then all the Alliances will go after you. Stage-5 Pvp zones, soldiers and guards and every npc in keeps will attack you on sight.

As for Crimes. How I would like to see them done is like this. I don't want to see them just add in just necromancy and vampire and werewolves but other abilities along with other things. With some zones having some things that are illegal that are not in other provinces. While some are in others.
What should be illegal everywhere.
Stealing,
Assault,
Trespassing/lockpicking.
Murder
Lycanthropy

Transform into a werewolf and being seen bounty plus attacked on sight. All Zones but pvp do to how dangerous Werewolves are. They take it seriously if one is found to be rampaging around. This is do to them being able to take on so many people at once and kill them rather quickly, the main reason why just being infected by one is cause for being executed in Cyrodill by the imperial legion.

On a province or zone basis. Depending on which zone or province you are in they might not apply to all provinces.

Vampirism and Vampire Like Ability Laws

Feeding on innocent folks gives you attack on sight heat. Using Batswarm abilties, life drain abilties and nightblade abilties that act like vampire abilties will give you heat then a bounty. Why Nghtblade abilties some of them are twisted and act in a way like a vampire ability. This will vary on the zones. Morrowind being the most against vampires and anything to do with them, with be the worst places for vampires to be. But allowable up to a point everywhere else. So Nightblade vampire like abilties and all vampires abilties will result in you being attacked on sight along with a bounty in Dunmer Homelands.

Defiling a corpse.

Taboo you will get a warning but not attacked on site but if you use any abilties necromancy abilties on corpses have been been murdered by you or someone else will result in an attack on sight plus bounty. Applies to necromancy most zones except Khajiit Homelands. As they are not as caring about the art from what we know. Since they don't really react to their graves being dugged up. Defiling a Corpse will also count as taking items from the corpse.
Lockpicking what does not belong to you.

Dueling Laws-

You are not allowed to duel anywhere where the public can be hurt. Doing so in a city will give you a bounty if spotted.

Invisibility Ban/ Anti Voyeurism Laws

This would apply to crime ridden areas. Zones which have lots of crime problems, Hews Bane, Anvil and Kvatch, Riften and Windhelm.

Dangerous Animals, Daedric Pets Act.

Summoned Daedra are allowed but if they get in the way, you will be breaking the law and get a bounty. Combat animals that are not mounts will not be allowed in cities. Having a Bear in the public areas can you to get a bounty. Common sense why they would restrict such summons. Bears can be unpredictable so they should be restricted.

Green Pact Laws-

Picking Flowers or fruits off the ground anywhere gives you a bounty and they can do this by including this to the stealing system so all flower nodes would be marked as such in valenwood zones.

Necromancy Allowed on any race but Dunmer.

This would only apply in morrowind zones. As Dunmer are the only ones who truly matter everyone else is lesser and that is how they treat necromancy in their homelands at this point in time.

Necromancy Allowed

Nord, Khajiit, and Argonian zones. Banned in Covenent, Altmer and Bosmer zones.

Necromancy Banned

Depending on how the people of those areas feel about it and local and faction laws on the matter. This is the total ban on all Necromancer Abilities

Daedric Summoning Ban

This would make sense in Summerset Isles. Given the reverence towards the Aedra and the Problems the Daedra have caused for the Altmer People. Like the Chimer taking up daedra worship and the creation of the orcs anything that has to do with them should be obviously illegal here along with unsanctioned Necromancy

Theft being Legal(limited)

This will only apply to Valenwood zones but still get a bounty if spotted by a non bosmer and applies if spoted by a guard. This is do to the Rite of Theft in Bosmer Homelands its a big part of their culture and its how some Altmer were able to win land within the bosmer homelands.

Starlock

. . .

I’m just going to say I’m quite confident and glad something like this will never be implemented. Pretty sure anyone who has a dedicated rogue with a high perma-bounty will say the same.

Thevampirenight

Starlock wrote: »

. . .

I’m just going to say I’m quite confident and glad something like this will never be implemented. Pretty sure anyone who has a dedicated rogue with a high perma-bounty will say the same.

I want to see a justice system that goes along with the lore of how it would and should work. While at the same time working with the mmo mechanics. The justice system would not be the exact same everywhere. Each province basically has their own laws. Not having jails or the abilty to be thrown in jail breaks the spirte of justice as Jails serve the purpose of making sure those who broke the law do their time. Of course they would have to make escaping a possibility and they might not be able to do it exactly how they did it in the other elder scrolls. Having variation would be something that would make the system a lot better then it is. Not stealing a carrot in dc and ending up having a guard come up to me in ep asking for the bounty for said stolen carrot. Kinda like they did it in skyrim and less how they did it in oblivion. Where every guard in the province knows about it.

Siohwenoeht

Very well thought out! It's going to take a minute to digest it all...

MythicEmperor

Based on the lore in a strict interpretation, I 100% agree in regards to Dunmer necromancy. There is, however, a caveat. To quote Ancestors and the Dunmer (https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Ancestors_and_the_Dunmer):

Telvanni "Necromancy"
The Telvanni are adept masters of necromancy. They do not, however, practice necromancy upon the remains of Dark Elves. Sane Telvanni regard such practices with loathing and righteous anger. They do practice necromancy upon the remains of animals and upon the remains of Humans, Orcs, and Argonians -- who are technically no more than animals in Morrowind.

Now, you may think this changes nothing. Strictly speaking, you’d be right. The thing is, most Telvanni aren’t exactly ‘sane,’ so to me this implies that the House really doesn’t care on whom you practice necromancy. They accept vampires and even sell Dunmer slaves, meaning they will do whatever to whomever so long as it benefits them.

FoolishOptimist

I'll preface this by saying that my stamplar commits mass murder on a daily basis. He currently has a bounty of over 2 million.

What I Like

• I like that each zone may differ slightly depending on what is and isn't against the law and could incur a bounty.
• I like the idea of spontaneous combats that appear to keep you on edge.
• There are aspects of my personality that enjoy that experience and skill points are at risk if the Wanted is captured.

What I feel needs more consideration

• Currently, Cyrodil and IC Sewers are the only locations outside of Outlaw Refuges where your bounty is not cared for. This provides the player a haven to further their mount skills at stables, increase their inventory slots and so on. If you take this away from the player then those stalls need to be added into the Refuge locations.
• Would killing bounty hunters also count as killing an innocent? Will there be desirable loot that drops? Perhaps a greater chance at rarer stolen goods. If you're going to increase the risk then ideally you should risk the reward.
• I've been wanting this for a while now, but they should add a universal Invisibility spell to either the vampirism skill line, or the thieves guild/dark brotherhood skill lines. Don't make it combat focused like NBs (guaranteeing critical hit) but rather keep it exploration-focused) If you're going to insist that the greatest criminals across Tamriel are to be hounded down, then you should allow them an at-will chance of escape that doesn't rely on potion cool downs or heavy attacking an enemy (CP).

Nisekev

I like the idea of punishment for having permanent pets out when in towns.

Blobsky

I mean it was meant to be a "full world PvP" design but ZoS failed to deliver abd released the half effort instead.

Theres a few clips of them showing how that was meant to work, but somebody else can find them

Siohwenoeht

Blobsky wrote: »

I mean it was meant to be a "full world PvP" design but ZoS failed to deliver abd released the half effort instead.

Theres a few clips of them showing how that was meant to work, but somebody else can find them

They didn't quite fail to deliver, they wisely choose not to because it could and would lead to players griefing each other.

firedrgn

Yo blobsky where have you been ? Are you coming back to eso?

Reistr_the_Unbroken

They’re not changing the base game

SkillzMFG

I like the core of your idea since I'm a RP and lore fanatic and most of your suggestions are lore-based, but then again I realize that I'm in the minority in this game and that things like these are probably never going to be implemented in game.

A man can dream though...?

Tandor

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Blobsky wrote: »

I mean it was meant to be a "full world PvP" design but ZoS failed to deliver abd released the half effort instead.

Theres a few clips of them showing how that was meant to work, but somebody else can find them

They didn't quite fail to deliver, they wisely choose not to because it could and would lead to players griefing each other.

It was partly that, and also because they couldn't see how to avoid it being exploited by people playing "Criminals and Enforcers" together on pre-arranged terms.

The problem with having penalties restricted by zone or alliance is that players would simply run off and play the game elsewhere while running down the bounty. There would be no consequence at all. I accept that at the moment you can just log out and play a different character, so I'd be happy with the bounty only running down while the character is actually in the game.

Generally speaking I think the system is fine as it is, although I'm not averse to tweaking the penalties a bit. However, it's not intended to be a highly challenging contest between you and every NPC in the game and for most it's just a fun part of the game and a reasonably efficient way for players (especially non-traders) to make some gold.

Tavore1138

I've always found it crazy that I could steal a carrot in one alliance and have the guards chasing me down in one of the others - whereas they should be more 'Well done for stealing an enemy carrot brave hero!'.

I think messing with skills would probably annoy too many and jail would be tough to do in a fun way but a few more smarts about how alliances react to crimes committed in other areas would be a little more immersive than a psychic global police force... you could even find that killing enemy alliance nobles would get you rewards in another alliance whereas killing respected traders might get you penalties in any alliance and killing the poor might be ignored even in the alliance where you committed the crime

ArchangelIsraphel

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Thevampirenight

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system.

Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty. Having favor to it, is something I would like to see as well. As different crimes for different zones. The main reason why I made the list up there. I know they might not make it like I suggested it should be. But maybe more in that direction would be for the best. A separate bounty system for all three factions. Would be preferable to every alliance knowing about it and guards going after you. In the other factions for crimes you did in the faction you were in. Unless it was so high as to warrant them knowing and having you wanted for those crimes in the enemy faction as if they come over to theirs I'm sure they don't want a mass murderer or serial killer on their streets.

So yes I think there needs to be changes to how it works. Both for immersion and roleplaying reasons. But also to make it lore friendly. People in Elder Scrolls don't have the means of sending out warrants for arrests or deaths to everyone instantly like they do in real life. I am really wondering how all the guards are able to know as well. As if they are all telepathically linked to one another. Skyrim did the justice system a lot better. Making it based on holds. I know coding might restrict them, from doing it for every zone but they could maybe do it by alliance. Which would be a major improvement to what we have now with the current justice system.

ArchangelIsraphel

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Thevampirenight

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Cp Loss no, as that is account wide, but progress towards the next Cp Point yes. Also there might be a reason for skillpoint loss constant beatings, abuse by the guards. Spending so many days in the prison, being attacked by other inmates maybe being restricted from using any magic by magical handcuffs that drain magicka. There is many reasons why it could be the case. Making it a little more like oblivions way of handling it. Along with Skyrims wouldn't break the lore and force players to be more careful. That they cannot just mass murder npcs all over the place without serious consequences. If players don't want to face them then there is those bounty pardon pamphlets things players can get to clear off their bounties.

Having meaningful consequences would not hurt the game and might actually help the game out. Players would like having more of the rpg elements of the singleplayer games mixed in with the mmo mechanics. Having a meaningful justice system. That is more like the single player games, Wouldn't hurt at all and of course they can always add the option to escape. If that is what they want to do, from the jails/ prisons. Making it as difficult though would maybe work well. They might have to do some coding to program it to work with inventory maybe a storage chest for all the items the guards took from you, where you can reclaim your stuff and stolen goods. If you go to jail, which I'm sure if caught by the guards players will want to do. In order to keep their legendary stolen items they don't want to part with. Right now if the guards catch you, and kill you that is all taken away. A jailing system would be a chance for players to keep such items.
I added something to my post talking about how they could do the escape system as that is something I should have added to the post anyways.

ArchangelIsraphel

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Cp Loss no, as that is account wide, but progress towards the next Cp Point yes. Also there might be a reason for skillpoint loss constant beatings, abuse by the guards. Spending so many days in the prison, being attacked by other inmates maybe being restricted from using any magic by magical handcuffs that drain magicka. There is many reasons why it could be the case. Making it a little more like oblivions way of handling it. Along with Skyrims wouldn't break the lore and force players to be more careful. That they cannot just mass murder npcs all over the place without serious consequences. If players don't want to face them then there is those bounty pardon pamphlets things players can get to clear off their bounties.

I'm not even a player who mass murders NPC's and I still think this idea is going overboard for an MMO. And I HATE seeing people murder NPCs. Again, it's fine in a solo game. Not so much in an MMO where you are wasting peoples time and effort because they murdered an NPC. And if you still have pardon pamphlets, it really makes the entire idea moot since you can grind those without limit?

Sorry, I like the lore as much as anyone else, but doing this for the sake of it is just a step backwards.

Thevampirenight

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Cp Loss no, as that is account wide, but progress towards the next Cp Point yes. Also there might be a reason for skillpoint loss constant beatings, abuse by the guards. Spending so many days in the prison, being attacked by other inmates maybe being restricted from using any magic by magical handcuffs that drain magicka. There is many reasons why it could be the case. Making it a little more like oblivions way of handling it. Along with Skyrims wouldn't break the lore and force players to be more careful. That they cannot just mass murder npcs all over the place without serious consequences. If players don't want to face them then there is those bounty pardon pamphlets things players can get to clear off their bounties.

I'm not even a player who mass murders NPC's and I still think this idea is going overboard for an MMO. And I HATE seeing people murder NPCs. Again, it's fine in a solo game. Not so much in an MMO where you are wasting peoples time and effort because they murdered an NPC. And if you still have pardon pamphlets, it really makes the entire idea moot since you can grind those without limit?

Sorry, I like the lore as much as anyone else, but doing this for the sake of it is just a step backwards.

Well they are going to add necromancers to the justice system in some form or might as far as we know. I'm sure that would be very annoying. While they are doing a little bit of a re haul with the justice system when it comes to crimes it is the perfect opportunity to revamp the system. When they added it in they were going to do it in two parts but they never finished it because of how bad it would be to have a pvp justice system. They saw the writing on the wall of how much of a bad idea that would be and trashed the idea. Having the second part of the justice system in the form of a revamp. To make it more like the single player games way of handling things. Well can lead to opportunities that have not been opened up in the game. Pvp Enforcer system is out, but a pve jailing system would work even better. Heck they can even make it so you can roleplay in the jails, if you wanted to with your cell mates. Maybe Prison Roleplaying guilds as well! A lot of opportunities with having jails and prisons.

ArchangelIsraphel

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Cp Loss no, as that is account wide, but progress towards the next Cp Point yes. Also there might be a reason for skillpoint loss constant beatings, abuse by the guards. Spending so many days in the prison, being attacked by other inmates maybe being restricted from using any magic by magical handcuffs that drain magicka. There is many reasons why it could be the case. Making it a little more like oblivions way of handling it. Along with Skyrims wouldn't break the lore and force players to be more careful. That they cannot just mass murder npcs all over the place without serious consequences. If players don't want to face them then there is those bounty pardon pamphlets things players can get to clear off their bounties.

I'm not even a player who mass murders NPC's and I still think this idea is going overboard for an MMO. And I HATE seeing people murder NPCs. Again, it's fine in a solo game. Not so much in an MMO where you are wasting peoples time and effort because they murdered an NPC. And if you still have pardon pamphlets, it really makes the entire idea moot since you can grind those without limit?

Sorry, I like the lore as much as anyone else, but doing this for the sake of it is just a step backwards.

Well they are going to add necromancers to the justice system in some form or might as far as we know. I'm sure that would be very annoying. While they are doing a little bit of a re haul with the justice system when it comes to crimes it is the perfect opportunity to revamp the system. When they did it they were going to do it in two parts but they never finished it because of how bad it would be to have a pvp justice system. They saw the writing on the wall of how much of a bad idea that would be and trashed the idea. Having the second part of the justice system in the form of a revamp. To make it more like the single player games way of handling things. Well can lead to opportunities that have not been opened up in the game. Pvp Enforcer system is out, but a pve jailing system would work even better.

Given that I think the necromancer aspect being added to the justice system is also excessive, I have to disagree with you entirely. Like I said, the PVE jailing system you suggest is far too punishing for an mmo setting. I'd rather see them fix other aspects of the game than add inconveniences.

Stealing/Killing from an NPC who is otherwise unaffected by it should not be punished through the theft of your real world time and effort thought gamplay.

Thevampirenight

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

So in other words what you're saying is you want a "justice" system where the game flags players for PVP....and essentially allows those doing "acts of justice" to become real thieves, impacting real players- hunting them down, affecting them in other aspects of the game, where as you aren't even actually hurting anyone when you steal...you're only stealing from NPC's, not real people. Why should anyone in game be at the mercy of other players for stealing from NPC's?

And you actually want all alliances to go after a person? Really? Honestly I don't think your suggestion is even realistic. Especially since a criminal with any skill would be able to disguise themselves if they got caught and ran away. All of the mechanics you describe here don't give anyone any new mechanics to DEFEND themselves if they have a bounty on their heads.

As far as I'm concerned, those who are "enforcing the law" become the actual criminals in this case, because they're hurting players, while thieves aren't touching players at all.

The jailing system is...I have no words. Why would you even want that?

This suggestion is not fun. It is not even bordering on fun. The justice system is fine as it is. It's a fun little mechanic that doesn't need to be made toxic and abrasive.

Umm no, not at all. No pvp for justice system. What I mentioned was npcs attacking you if you had over one or two million bounty a very high threshold. In pvp areas, Jailing system, yes I think its needed its unrealstic we don't have it. Its a big part of every elder scrolls games justice systems the way the justice system stands right now. I would have to say is a joke, as there is no way npcs from other alliances should know about your crimes unless your crimes are so serious as to warrent them knowing about them and going after you. If you don't like an abrasive justice system, well look at how it is in real life. Criminals would love to have an eso or elder scrolls form of justice system. Whats the point in having the justice system if there is no jail or prison option to serve off the bounty.

This is a game. Not real life.

Now if you'd written mechanics for prison breaks and getting out? That might have been interesting. But the highly punishing system you suggest is... out of proportion to the imaginary crime. It's different when you are playing a solo Elder Scrolls game- by all means spend your time how you like. But what you are talking about impacts the time and effort people put into building their characters in an mmo setting where these things are important for other aspects of gameplay, and that shouldn't ever be touched by the justice system. At all.

Skill loss? CP loss? That's insanity. If you want to talk about real life... people don't suddenly loose all knowledge of prior abilities just because they're in jail. For instance if someone knows how to, say, shoot a bow? They wouldn't abruptly not know how to do that just because they get locked up. They'd still know how to do that when they got out. Skill loss makes no sense. It would be bad enough to have your time consumed.

Cp Loss no, as that is account wide, but progress towards the next Cp Point yes. Also there might be a reason for skillpoint loss constant beatings, abuse by the guards. Spending so many days in the prison, being attacked by other inmates maybe being restricted from using any magic by magical handcuffs that drain magicka. There is many reasons why it could be the case. Making it a little more like oblivions way of handling it. Along with Skyrims wouldn't break the lore and force players to be more careful. That they cannot just mass murder npcs all over the place without serious consequences. If players don't want to face them then there is those bounty pardon pamphlets things players can get to clear off their bounties.

I'm not even a player who mass murders NPC's and I still think this idea is going overboard for an MMO. And I HATE seeing people murder NPCs. Again, it's fine in a solo game. Not so much in an MMO where you are wasting peoples time and effort because they murdered an NPC. And if you still have pardon pamphlets, it really makes the entire idea moot since you can grind those without limit?

Sorry, I like the lore as much as anyone else, but doing this for the sake of it is just a step backwards.

Well they are going to add necromancers to the justice system in some form or might as far as we know. I'm sure that would be very annoying. While they are doing a little bit of a re haul with the justice system when it comes to crimes it is the perfect opportunity to revamp the system. When they did it they were going to do it in two parts but they never finished it because of how bad it would be to have a pvp justice system. They saw the writing on the wall of how much of a bad idea that would be and trashed the idea. Having the second part of the justice system in the form of a revamp. To make it more like the single player games way of handling things. Well can lead to opportunities that have not been opened up in the game. Pvp Enforcer system is out, but a pve jailing system would work even better.

Given that I think the necromancer aspect being added to the justice system is also excessive, I have to disagree with you entirely. Like I said, the PVE jailing system you suggest is far too punishing for an mmo setting. I'd rather see them fix other aspects of the game than add inconveniences.

Maybe but then again its optional like the single player games. They can keep the mechanics of the flee system. They kill you they take all your stolen stuff and you end up at a wayshrines. I'm sure a lot of folks would like having the jail option. They can even make it not as punishing as I suggested. But as they say

StarOfElyon

I would like to be able to sheath my weapons and stop the attacks from guards. The way it is now, you basically have to just wait till they kill you.

If my character has a relatively clean record, I should be able to get a slap on the wrist when I surrender. If I've had multiple run-ins with the law or am a member of the Thieves Guild or something, I should have a tough time with the guards.

Bouldercleave

You did a lot of work and research for something that they sadly will never implement. I like many if not most of your ideas as long as players are never included in enforcing the Justice system. That just opens the door for abuse and griefing.

I agree that the system could and SHOULD be much more in depth.

Dracan_Fontom

Just let me kill a guard and I'll be happy.

Tandor

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Just let me kill a guard and I'll be happy.

Unfortunately, that would result in Guild Night invasions with guard corpses littering the cities, and many players would not be happy! On a smaller scale, it would result in players ganging up on individual guards. The invincibility of guards is at the heart of the present system and if that were to be changed then the whole basis of the Justice System would need to be changed too. There will be those who want that, but so long as we have the present system guards need to remain invincible.

Thevampirenight

Tandor wrote: »

Dracan_Fontom wrote: »

Just let me kill a guard and I'll be happy.

Unfortunately, that would result in Guild Night invasions with guard corpses littering the cities, and many players would not be happy! On a smaller scale, it would result in players ganging up on individual guards. The invincibility of guards is at the heart of the present system and if that were to be changed then the whole basis of the Justice System would need to be changed too. There will be those who want that, but so long as we have the present system guards need to remain invincible.

Yeah that is the major reason why they made them invincible. What I miss is guard to player interaction. Like you saw in other games like Oblivion and Skryim, heck the guards in Skryim are the main reason why the Arrow in the Knee joke is so famous. Having this type of interaction even if they only have so many lines they can say. I wouldn't mind having that here. Maybe even the guards can have a chance of telling you about a rumor where you might find a skyshard or interesting area that would then be marked on your map.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

No, ZoS isn’t changing the entire base game just for your open world PvP idea

Thevampirenight

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

No, ZoS isn’t changing the entire base game just for your open world PvP idea

I edited my thread to note that this isn't a open world pvp idea. As some seem to mistake it as such for some reason. As much fun as it could be, it would be very problematic for one. Players could and will abuse it. They will wait at refuge doors for wanted criminals. They canned the idea after player feed back and after thinking about how to do it they saw the the writing on the wall of how bad of an idea it would be and canned it for those very reasons since players could game the system for their benefit. But they did give us open world pvp dueling in pve zones. But I do think we need a part two adding pve systems includes jailing system and they can add in a npc bounty hunter system where bounty hunter mobs will spawn near your location. If you got really high bounty but no pvp enforcer system. A Pve one would work just as good.

If players still wanted a playable enforcer system they could add in a pve enforcer faction. But instead you are tasked with going after random delve bosses. Bandit npcs and monsters and npc criminals within cities. With its own skilline that maybe have a few useful passives that can be used against bosses bandits and common monsters as well as apprehending npc criminals. Maybe as you level it you get say 300 gold, then 600 gold then 1200 gold for each criminal brought to justice. As well as weeklies that can land you like 15000 gold if you successfully capture a dangerous npc criminal. While delve and world bosses would be their own unique quests that help level it up as well as give say like 600 gold if below level fifty and if you are level fifty 1500 gold per completion.

AlexanderDeLarge

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

No, ZoS isn’t changing the entire base game just for your open world PvP idea

They should though because it'd go a hell of a long way making the game feel more like what a mainline TES game spanning multiple provinces would hopefully be like.