A thought about the CP cap

EpicRekkoning

First, let me say that I'm happy with the cap. I've been playing this game since console launch and I've seen how the constant CP increase has, in my opinion, broken the game from a PvE perspective. Everytime we get more CP, dungeons become much easier. So much so that ZOS has had to implement many one-shot mechanics to keep max players from walking through bosses. Personally, I hate the one shot mechanics. I prefer the good old days when we had 160-300 cp, struggling to work together and down skoria on hard mode. It was such a rewarding experience and the dungeon mechanics, while difficult, we still really fun.

With all of that said, I do agree with the counter argument that asks, "what's the point after I hit max level?" Players still enjoy to be rewarded for accomplishments and I think that's an important piece to keeping players. So how do you address both these issues.

A thought I have is to cap CP at a lower amount, maybe 450 or 540. Now before everyone starts throwing tomatoes at me, hear me out. Lowering the cap would allow ZOS to be more creative with dungeon designs and remove the one-shot mechanics. Any of you that have played since launch understand this. It also will help them better balance the game, gear, and classes. They won't need to constantly worry about how 30 extra CP will effect class x. They can focus those questions on how new gear will effect performance.

After max CP, we earn something different at the same rate as CP. Let's call them tokens for now. These tokens could be used to buy whatever ZOS finds appropriate.  The could be used to buy mats, consumables, or my favorite idea, dungeon/pvp gear. ZOS could add a merchant in font of each dungeon, trial, or in Cyrodiil/Imp City. Players could spend X tokens to buy that dungeon/trial/pvp set piece. The cost would have to be substantial enough to not make it too easy to buy gear. My initial thought would be:
Vet:
-25 tokens per armor piece
-50 tokens per weapon/jewelry piece
Trial (non-perfect only)
-50 tokens per armor piece
-80 tokens per weapon/jewelry piece
PVP
Sorry, I dont pvp enough to know what would be best, but I would assume one of the two options above.

If we still earn tokens at the same rate as CP, it would take a while to earn this gear, but still give players something to earn. Any current CP over the cap would be credited to tokens.

Just a thought. If any of you have ideas, let's hear them. I'm sure ZOS is spinning their wheels trying to figure out how to change, so now might be a good time to give them something to think about.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

This is a hard "no" from me. The whole reason the pro-progression side wants to keep vertical progression is to see their characters grow stronger over time. These tokens aren't going to increase our dps, hps, etc, so we'll be stuck at the same point forever. I don't care about swimming in resources, I already have millions of gold and most of the gear I want. I want to see my numbers go up, and only a vertical progression system of some sort allows for that.

Oneshots are annoying, sure, but they didn't have to implement oneshots to counter power creep. That was their choice, and it was equal parts lazy and terrible.

Siohwenoeht

I agree 100% with you about one-shot mechanics. They are a direct result of the current progression design.

I also dislike chasing down gear, which your solution helps with, except that dungeon gear should stay as a reward for completing/ farming the dungeons. I realize the golden vendor exists to help pvpers who don't run that many dungeons but I'm reluctant about putting a vendor at each dungeon selling gear just for accruing experience points.

You could have a totally new set of gear, perhaps, that has similar structure to dungeon gear but at a lower bonus level... Just playing devil's advocate.

Sylvermynx

I don't have a max toon here at this point. But what I remember with a lot of fondness from max toons in WoW and RIFT - was the ability to go clean the clock on content I never had the ability to run before. With 2k ms lag, NO ONE wanted me in group content in those games - and having that background, I wouldn't ever expect people to be happy with me in their group content now in this game. So - max toons is generally the only way I get to see endgame, complex content etc.

That doesn't seem to work in ESO. Bummer.

munster1404

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

This is a hard "no" from me. The whole reason the pro-progression side wants to keep vertical progression is to see their characters grow stronger over time. These tokens aren't going to increase our dps, hps, etc, so we'll be stuck at the same point forever. I don't care about swimming in resources, I already have millions of gold and most of the gear I want. I want to see my numbers go up, and only a vertical progression system of some sort allows for that.

Oneshots are annoying, sure, but they didn't have to implement oneshots to counter power creep. That was their choice, and it was equal parts lazy and terrible.

As a perpetually weak player, CPs helped a lot. Soloed my first world boss at CP 500+ . CP 700 gave me the courage and capability to LFG vanilla dungeons. I would have probably attempt the DLC dungeons at around CP 900ish too if ZoS have not decided to freeze the CP cap.

idk

With the extremely steep diminishing returns CP does very little to create a power creep. Other factors such as new gear and overall changes made to the game have a much bigger effect.

However, the argument that the freeze of the cap hinders a sense of progression is just as weak. Not only is the progression so slight as I said, games with an actual system that gives a sense of progression have a means to reset it and to that regularly. It is generally through tiered gear which Zos does not have. When they raise the level cap that progression is reset.

The thing is, Zos does not have a means to reset the progression they cause and that in itself if the actual issue.

EpicRekkoning

Idk, if you look at one area of the CP system, you're right with diminishing returns balance over performance for that specific area. But the problem is the more CP you gain, the more areas you can invest CP into. DPS for example, you can increase damage by weapons, direct damage, dots all at the same time, while increasing your resistance to physical, spell, and damage over time. Not to mention that you also get a boost to max resources per CP earned. It's the very reason you see dps parses increases with every DLC drop and why ZOS is continuing the nerf/changes class.

Diminishing returns helps, but when players have so many points to put in, they become stronger than the design of that character. Capping the CP can also let ZOS do a better evaluation of the classes. They can let increase power come from one source (new gear), rather than multiple source. They have one variable to worry about.

Tavore1138

It was always on the cards from the second we had people running around with over 1,000 CP a few days after the system was launched and they had to hard cap. The only slight regret is that I was hoping it would get to 1080 so you had the option of getting all the perks if you wanted.

The question now becomes do they come up with other systems to allow us to progress our characters in other ways but that can avoid the power creep scenario?

Personally I have always favoured going back to the soul of TES games and unlocking the class system in some way to allow access to more skill trees. You'd still be limited by your 5 skills per bar and the overal caps on resource pools but might make for some interesting builds and no more whining for class change tokens