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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
My thoughts on the racial changes
ezio45
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Over all good but needs work
Zos stated that one of the goals for this change was to give more options for all roles.
Tanks: I think they succeeded here, I would say there are alot of effective options now for tanks. Agronians are still strong for this, orc and imperial seem like they are on par with agronian now. Nord even seems like it could be a good tank for pvp utilizing the ulti gen passive
Mag dps: We didnt gain any races for mag dps we just switched khajiit with darkelf. I like that khajjit is mag dps with crit and If it works out i can see it being used for high crit builds vs highelf which is a more spell damage focused build. I think darkelf is weak now and one of the worse races. It needs work but ill go into that later.
Healers: I really think zos failed here in there goal to provide players with more race options for healers. Breton is clearly the best choice for healers now with argonian behind a bit. Im ok with them switching that around. However we dropped highelf entirely as a healer race. It was viable for healing although not the best option before. The refunding 575 mag every 6 seconds is pretty bad as far as im concerned for recovery. Which is a healers most important stat.
Stam dps: I think there are more effective options now but the quality of those options are lacking. Redguard is still the best choose follow by khajjit and woodelf but they need work. orc and imperial are ok options for more tanky stam dps builds
Thoughts on individual races
Khajjit: the 75 recovery to to stam and mag is a joke. This is the weakest passive out of all the races by far. I think zos knows this by now and if they are smart will make adjustments during pts. Which I hope they do. As i said earlier I think khajjit is in a good place to become the high crit build option for mag and stam dps if they get this passive more solid. If it was my option id like to see khajjit lose the health recovery and gain a x increase to stam and mag recovery. Lunar blessing is also pretty weak, again i would say lose the health boost and up the mag and stam pool to like 1800-2k
orc: brawny is to low, especially when looking at imperial. I get that orc has the healing received but its just not enough to make it on par with imperial and those to are similar enought were they are going to be the options players look to for that type of build and imperial is always going to win.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler please consider these last to paragraphs
Dark elf: Its to similar to highelf now. if it stays like it is highelf or darkelf is going to always beat out one another depending on what zos nerfs or buffs going forward. Right now highelf is a better option for mag dps. There is 0 reason as of right now to pick a dark elf. I came up with a solution and honestly I really like it. Boost dark elf resources to 2k stam and 2k mag. This will make darkelf the same as highelf but with 2k stam. Which would make darkelf better tan highelf, its the same but with 2k more stam so why not take it. The answer to that is give highelf a better recovery passive. Switch Spell Recharge to something like gain 150 mag recovery for 6 seconds after you use a class ability. Spell Recharge as of right now isnt a strong passive and only holds up because the options for mag dps are limited to it and khajiit.
Why is that an effective solution? It differentiates high elf and dark elf to the point they arnt competing for the same builds on the mag side. It makes darkelf a race version of shackle breaker for both mag and stam builds. If you look at the top dps races it holds up with them. If your making a stam dps You can choose redguard for damage and sustain, darkelf would be a better option though for stam builds that require using more magic skills like stamsorc. If your making a mag dps you can choose highelf for damage and sustain, darkelf would be a better option though for mag builds that need more stam, like in pvp. Also giving highelf more sustain makes it an option for healing again. Giving more options for roles was one of zos goals for this racial rework and healers are the only role that zos flat out failed causing there to be less effective options for healing. So giving highelf a better sustain passive would leave healer racials with the same amount as it started with but with highelf, argonian and breton being closer to eachother for those effective option.
Edited by ezio45 on January 18, 2019 6:30AM Zos stated that one of the goals for this change was to give more options for all roles.
Tanks: I think they succeeded here, I would say there are alot of effective options now for tanks. Agronians are still strong for this, orc and imperial seem like they are on par with agronian now. Nord even seems like it could be a good tank for pvp utilizing the ulti gen passive
Mag dps: We didnt gain any races for mag dps we just switched khajiit with darkelf. I like that khajjit is mag dps with crit and If it works out i can see it being used for high crit builds vs highelf which is a more spell damage focused build. I think darkelf is weak now and one of the worse races. It needs work but ill go into that later.
Healers: I really think zos failed here in there goal to provide players with more race options for healers. Breton is clearly the best choice for healers now with argonian behind a bit. Im ok with them switching that around. However we dropped highelf entirely as a healer race. It was viable for healing although not the best option before. The refunding 575 mag every 6 seconds is pretty bad as far as im concerned for recovery. Which is a healers most important stat.
Stam dps: I think there are more effective options now but the quality of those options are lacking. Redguard is still the best choose follow by khajjit and woodelf but they need work. orc and imperial are ok options for more tanky stam dps builds
Thoughts on individual races
Khajjit: the 75 recovery to to stam and mag is a joke. This is the weakest passive out of all the races by far. I think zos knows this by now and if they are smart will make adjustments during pts. Which I hope they do. As i said earlier I think khajjit is in a good place to become the high crit build option for mag and stam dps if they get this passive more solid. If it was my option id like to see khajjit lose the health recovery and gain a x increase to stam and mag recovery. Lunar blessing is also pretty weak, again i would say lose the health boost and up the mag and stam pool to like 1800-2k
orc: brawny is to low, especially when looking at imperial. I get that orc has the healing received but its just not enough to make it on par with imperial and those to are similar enought were they are going to be the options players look to for that type of build and imperial is always going to win.
@ZOS_BrianWheeler please consider these last to paragraphs
Dark elf: Its to similar to highelf now. if it stays like it is highelf or darkelf is going to always beat out one another depending on what zos nerfs or buffs going forward. Right now highelf is a better option for mag dps. There is 0 reason as of right now to pick a dark elf. I came up with a solution and honestly I really like it. Boost dark elf resources to 2k stam and 2k mag. This will make darkelf the same as highelf but with 2k stam. Which would make darkelf better tan highelf, its the same but with 2k more stam so why not take it. The answer to that is give highelf a better recovery passive. Switch Spell Recharge to something like gain 150 mag recovery for 6 seconds after you use a class ability. Spell Recharge as of right now isnt a strong passive and only holds up because the options for mag dps are limited to it and khajiit.
Why is that an effective solution? It differentiates high elf and dark elf to the point they arnt competing for the same builds on the mag side. It makes darkelf a race version of shackle breaker for both mag and stam builds. If you look at the top dps races it holds up with them. If your making a stam dps You can choose redguard for damage and sustain, darkelf would be a better option though for stam builds that require using more magic skills like stamsorc. If your making a mag dps you can choose highelf for damage and sustain, darkelf would be a better option though for mag builds that need more stam, like in pvp. Also giving highelf more sustain makes it an option for healing again. Giving more options for roles was one of zos goals for this racial rework and healers are the only role that zos flat out failed causing there to be less effective options for healing. So giving highelf a better sustain passive would leave healer racials with the same amount as it started with but with highelf, argonian and breton being closer to eachother for those effective option.
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PathwayM✭✭✭✭Ehhhhh, again with the people not doing math. Did you even realize that the Altmer racial is actually 191 mag recovery when used on cooldown? That's more than your suggestion lol.
Do the math first, test, then provide feedback.5 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
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10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ehhhhh, again with the people not doing math. Did you even realize that the Altmer racial is actually 191 mag recovery when used on cooldown? That's more than your suggestion lol.
Do the math first, test, then provide feedback.
I did go the math? I think lol stats right now are
Right now on my highelf i have 1700 mag recov 9% of 1700 is 153 a second which over 12 seconds (amount of time it takes Spell Recharge to proc twice) amounts to 1836 mag vs the proc of Spell Recharge x2 which is 1150 O.o
so Spell Recharge is like 61% of the passive i had before, unless I just am calculating it wrong0 -
PathwayM✭✭✭✭
10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
Minor heroism is .66 per second, the nord passive is .5 per second. It's pretty comparable, free, requires no skill uptime to be maintained, and is almost worth a 5 piece set buff lol. That armor and spell resist is worth almost 3k stats is pvp as well so it quickly outperforms other races that are trying to use protective on their jewelry (which is very common mind you). And the 6% damage mit on nord actually doesn't perform as well as you think due to how incoming damage is calculated.1 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
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10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
i mean if you look at bloodspawn that is a 6% chance for 14 ultimate every 6 seconds. this is a guaranteed proc every 10 for 5 seconds
to see how they really compare you would need numbers on how much uptime bloodspwn has but just eye balling it they seem pretty close.0 -
TheValkyn✭✭✭✭✭
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10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
Minor heroism is .66 per second, the nord passive is .5 per second. It's pretty comparable, free, requires no skill uptime to be maintained, and is almost worth a 5 piece set buff lol. That armor and spell resist is worth almost 3k stats is pvp as well so it quickly outperforms other races that are trying to use protective on their jewelry (which is very common mind you). And the 6% damage mit on nord actually doesn't perform as well as you think due to how incoming damage is calculated.
@PathwayM If you're already hitting the hard cap in phys and spell resistance without trying then 4k resistances gives you zero benefit as a heavy armor tank unless you plan on wearing medium or light.0 -
PathwayM✭✭✭✭
10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
Minor heroism is .66 per second, the nord passive is .5 per second. It's pretty comparable, free, requires no skill uptime to be maintained, and is almost worth a 5 piece set buff lol. That armor and spell resist is worth almost 3k stats is pvp as well so it quickly outperforms other races that are trying to use protective on their jewelry (which is very common mind you). And the 6% damage mit on nord actually doesn't perform as well as you think due to how incoming damage is calculated.
@PathwayM If you're already hitting the hard cap in phys and spell resistance without trying then 4k resistances gives you zero benefit as a heavy armor tank unless you plan on wearing medium or light.
The only builds that are likely hitting the hard-cap for armor and physical resist are pve-tanks who still value the ult-gen passive. Otherwise, in pvp the racial is fantastic as there aren't that many heavy armor builds left in Cyrodiil and the ones that are still there aren't really using sets that put them at the hardcap anyway; so in the context of PvP those racial benefits are extremely valuable.2 -
Protossyder✭✭✭✭Ehhhhh, again with the people not doing math. Did you even realize that the Altmer racial is actually 191 mag recovery when used on cooldown? That's more than your suggestion lol.
Do the math first, test, then provide feedback.
I did go the math? I think lol stats right now are
Right now on my highelf i have 1700 mag recov 9% of 1700 is 153 a second which over 12 seconds (amount of time it takes Spell Recharge to proc twice) amounts to 1836 mag vs the proc of Spell Recharge x2 which is 1150 O.o
so Spell Recharge is like 61% of the passive i had before, unless I just am calculating it wrong
@ezio45
Recovery tics every 2 seconds. And 1700 <=> 1560 + (1560*0,09), so your 9% are ca. 140 mag recovery, not 153.Edited by Protossyder on January 18, 2019 12:59PMCharacters worth mentioning:Daedrós - Magicka DK - Altmer - PvE & PvP - Emperor - IR - GH - TTTArenas: vDSA (~46k) - vMA (~586k)
Dragybor - Stamblade - Redguard - PvE (first char)
Yondaime Raikage - Stamsorc - Redguard - PvP
Zerg Overmind - Magblade - Altmer - PvE - GH
Yenari - Magsorc - Altmer - PvE - Flawless Conqueror
Devoured-his-siblings - DK Tank - Argonian - PvE - Unchained
Valkyrja Valhalla - StamDK - Redguard - PvE
Hyperion der Obere - Magplar - Altmer - PvE
Affa al'Dschinni - Stamplar - Orc - PvP
Enjoys-the-slaughter - Templar Healer - Argonian - PvE
Hades Adamastos - Stamcro - Orc - PvE
Khaba the Cruel - Magsorc- Altmer - PvP
Hekate Ourania - Magcro - Atlmer - PvE - TTT
Trials: vAA hm - vHRC hm - vSO hm - vMoL hm (~161k) - vHoF hm (~218k) - vAS+2 (~114k) - vCR+3 - vSS hm - vKA hm
PC - EU2 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
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10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
Minor heroism is .66 per second, the nord passive is .5 per second. It's pretty comparable, free, requires no skill uptime to be maintained, and is almost worth a 5 piece set buff lol. That armor and spell resist is worth almost 3k stats is pvp as well so it quickly outperforms other races that are trying to use protective on their jewelry (which is very common mind you). And the 6% damage mit on nord actually doesn't perform as well as you think due to how incoming damage is calculated.
@PathwayM If you're already hitting the hard cap in phys and spell resistance without trying then 4k resistances gives you zero benefit as a heavy armor tank unless you plan on wearing medium or light.
To hit cap without using resistance sets you need to wear helm like lord warden, chudan or bone pirate. You won't hit cap in bloodspawn/earthgore+ebon+alkosh. Obviously, with nord racial you can now hit cap while wearing bloodspawn. Bloodspawn is very random, but with good rng you may receive very good horn uptime that way.
I bet when those changes go live, nord will be only race allowed for tank for score runs.0 -
HappyLittleTree✭✭✭✭✭
✭In another post someone (sry for not quoting) wrote this:
Agonians:
Make Resourceful give 1000 Magic OR Stamina, depending on which is higher, with the potion passive being changed from a Tri-Stat restore to a slightly stronger Bi-Stat, with emphasis again being on the higher resource+Health and since we no longer have a Tri-Stat restore effect, you can now also put a slight damage buff on Life Mender, adding 100 Weapon and/or Spell Damage so that our damage is now slightly higher, which also helps offset the huge nerf to our self healing without it being grossly OP or UP.Thuu chakkuth lod Hajhiit c’oo? Hajhiit gortsuquth gorihuth thuu gooluthduj thdeitoluu!
XBox-EU0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Protossyder wrote: »Ehhhhh, again with the people not doing math. Did you even realize that the Altmer racial is actually 191 mag recovery when used on cooldown? That's more than your suggestion lol.
Do the math first, test, then provide feedback.
I did go the math? I think lol stats right now are
Right now on my highelf i have 1700 mag recov 9% of 1700 is 153 a second which over 12 seconds (amount of time it takes Spell Recharge to proc twice) amounts to 1836 mag vs the proc of Spell Recharge x2 which is 1150 O.o
so Spell Recharge is like 61% of the passive i had before, unless I just am calculating it wrong
@ezio45
Recovery tics every 2 seconds. And 1700 <=> 1560 + (1560*0,09), so your 9% are ca. 140 mag recovery, not 153.
alright well thank you
dint now recov was every 2 seconds 0 -
deLioncourt✭✭✭✭
10 seconds is a long time for 5 ultimate. That's 0.5 ultimate every 1 second. Even if your battle lasts an entire minute in pvp that's only 30 extra ultimate that you gained... That's pathetic.
Also, Nords lost 6% damage reduction in exchange for extra armor. I always hit the armor hard cap without trying. Tanks don't need extra armor and spell resist.
Minor heroism is .66 per second, the nord passive is .5 per second. It's pretty comparable, free, requires no skill uptime to be maintained, and is almost worth a 5 piece set buff lol. That armor and spell resist is worth almost 3k stats is pvp as well so it quickly outperforms other races that are trying to use protective on their jewelry (which is very common mind you). And the 6% damage mit on nord actually doesn't perform as well as you think due to how incoming damage is calculated.
"free"?
we lose the other passive for it, which is way better IMO. That's not free. That's expensive.0