Dear Community: We can do better! (reaction to race changes)

sha-ext

I am playing this game since beta and i think i have written 4 posts or something, so i am usually not a forum person.
After just browsing the forums for 30min or so i encountered so many horrible reactions to the race changes that i felt the need to speak up.

I am not talking about the changes itself - that is another matter to discuss - i am talking about the community's reaction to said changes.

First of all: Relax people! Let's test things on the PTS, see how those changes actually play out. There is no reason at all to already post RIP threads - i think we are jumping the gun a little bit there.

The race changes and the idea behind it have been presented in a calm manner, with well thought out arguments, let's try to answer in kind. Everyone is free to disagree with those arguments.

There is no reason to use the 'F'-word, or any other insults - the changes haven't even made it to the PTS yet!
If you think a change is not deserved: Present your arguments like an adult (to be fair, i have also seen posts that do this!)
Nobody will take a post seriously, that seems to have been written by an angry, hormon-fueled teenager.



I think we can do better!

Skwor

I think the changes are pretty good actually, all of them.

GarnetFire17

My only real problem is that Wood Elf got no love.

Lord_Eomer

I am loving new changes, finally ZOS did some good balance changes.

Thank You ZOS,

@ZOS_GinaBruno

HatchetHaro

The issue is that ZOS does not have a good track record when it comes to balance and especially listening to their community. The whole argument of "guys calm down wait till it comes onto the PTS and then they'll change it according to feedback" has been done to death, and ultimately, multiple PTS cycles come and go, and none of the community-requested changes get implemented.

Fact of the matter is that we are tired of being ignored.

MakeMeUhSamich

Class Change tokens are where they should be focusing. How many new races have been added since launch?

BoloBoffin

@sha-ext, these are the forums. They have been a salt mine forever. There's always something that someone is a'yelling about, and today it's the racial passives. I really appreciate your kind spirit, but I hope you are not discouraged when the outrage keeps stacking up. Personally, I dip in when major changes are happening, try to get my questions answered asap, and then get back to playing. There is plenty of good here - not trying to say there isn't! It's just that this is where the salt winds blow fiercely. All we can do is be the change we want to see in Tamriel and then check our blood pressure when we leave.

MartiniDaniels

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I am loving new changes, finally ZOS did some good balance changes.

Thank You ZOS,

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Lol, look the poll and there will you see 40% of unhappy player base which is more then enough to consider if changes are good. Other 20% are unsure, and those 40% who accepts the changes are simply bad with maths and don't understand that everybody got nerfed in dps terms, even altmers.
The only who was tremendously buffed are magkhajiits, those are happy yes, and nords which received justified long needed buff to be good tanks.

mb10

There is not "relax" this is a straught up nerf and cash grab wtf are you talking about?

ZOS could literally stab people like you and you'd say "chill! its just a bit of blood, lets see how it pans out"

BoloBoffin

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I am loving new changes, finally ZOS did some good balance changes.

Thank You ZOS,

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Lol, look the poll and there will you see 40% of unhappy player base which is more then enough to consider if changes are good. Other 20% are unsure, and those 40% who accepts the changes are simply bad with maths and don't understand that everybody got nerfed in dps terms, even altmers.
The only who was tremendously buffed are magkhajiits, those are happy yes, and nords which received justified long needed buff to be good tanks.

"40% of players who post here at the forums," you meant to say. I'd be surprised if the number of players here at the forums were as high as 5% of who play the game overall.

Chaos2088

Sorry to be dumb, but where are the changes posted by ZoS?

Michae

I don't even know where to find the info on what is change. I play one char and I have the race that I like on it so I don't really care about the change but there seems to be much more cryiong on the forums for crying's sake than criticisms of any substance.

Kagukan

I saw the proposed changes. None seem that bad to me. I don't understand what all the fuss is about.

mairwen85

Michae wrote: »

I don't even know where to find the info on what is change. I play one char and I have the race that I like on it so I don't really care about the change but there seems to be much more cryiong on the forums for crying's sake than criticisms of any substance.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21/p1

Vahrokh

sha-ext wrote: »

I am playing this game since beta and i think i have written 4 posts or something, so i am usually not a forum person.
After just browsing the forums for 30min or so i encountered so many horrible reactions to the race changes that i felt the need to speak up.

I am not talking about the changes itself - that is another matter to discuss - i am talking about the community's reaction to said changes.

First of all: Relax people! Let's test things on the PTS, see how those changes actually play out. There is no reason at all to already post RIP threads - i think we are jumping the gun a little bit there.

The race changes and the idea behind it have been presented in a calm manner, with well thought out arguments, let's try to answer in kind. Everyone is free to disagree with those arguments.

There is no reason to use the 'F'-word, or any other insults - the changes haven't even made it to the PTS yet!
If you think a change is not deserved: Present your arguments like an adult (to be fair, i have also seen posts that do this!)
Nobody will take a post seriously, that seems to have been written by an angry, hormon-fueled teenager.



I think we can do better!

There's NOTHING to relax.

There are people here who spent hundreds euros and honed their main character to do hm vMOL, vAS + 3 and similar and now they just smash those characters to the trash bin.

At least, when the stock you invested in crashes, you are "just" angry because you lost money.

In MMOs, not only the stock crashes but you are also slapped in the face on the characters you love and cared for years.

sha-ext

BoloBoffin wrote: »

@sha-ext, these are the forums. They have been a salt mine forever. There's always something that someone is a'yelling about, and today it's the racial passives. I really appreciate your kind spirit, but I hope you are not discouraged when the outrage keeps stacking up. Personally, I dip in when major changes are happening, try to get my questions answered asap, and then get back to playing. There is plenty of good here - not trying to say there isn't! It's just that this is where the salt winds blow fiercely. All we can do is be the change we want to see in Tamriel and then check our blood pressure when we leave.

Main reason why i do not post on the forums

MartiniDaniels

BoloBoffin wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

I am loving new changes, finally ZOS did some good balance changes.

Thank You ZOS,

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Lol, look the poll and there will you see 40% of unhappy player base which is more then enough to consider if changes are good. Other 20% are unsure, and those 40% who accepts the changes are simply bad with maths and don't understand that everybody got nerfed in dps terms, even altmers.
The only who was tremendously buffed are magkhajiits, those are happy yes, and nords which received justified long needed buff to be good tanks.

"40% of players who post here at the forums," you meant to say. I'd be surprised if the number of players here at the forums were as high as 5% of who play the game overall.

I still don't understand what you all are so happy about? that somebody's main hero got nerfed more then your main? that instead of advertised "freedom" and "diversity" or unique race mechanics we got exact match race-role, some for PVE and some for PVP?
The only persons who should be happy with changes are nord tanks and magkittens. I bet it's 10% of community or even less, what others are so excited i don't know. "Master race got nerfed! Lizards got nerfed! woo-hoo!"

Tommy_The_Gun

sha-ext wrote: »

Let's test things on the PTS, see how those changes actually play out.

The problem is that all changes on PTS are tested by min-maxers DPS players. That is the major problem here. Almost no one is testing tanking & healing.

sha-ext

Vahrokh wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

snip

There's NOTHING to relax.

There are people here who spent hundreds euros and honed their main character to do hm vMOL, vAS + 3 and similar and now they just smash those characters to the trash bin.

At least, when the stock you invested in crashes, you are "just" angry because you lost money.

In MMOs, not only the stock crashes but you are also slapped in the face on the characters you love and cared for years.

There is. Taking time to really understand the changes, view them in comparison to all other changes (some races have been so much stronger than others), view them in the light of the power creep, view them in actual game play and not in some hypothetical instance.
We win absolutely nothing by panicking right now.

I know the history of ZOS not listening, but the answer is not impolitness, anger and so forth

DirkRavenclaw

I like the Changes, cant wait for PTS to go live and test it out next Week

Vahrokh

sha-ext wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

snip

There's NOTHING to relax.

There are people here who spent hundreds euros and honed their main character to do hm vMOL, vAS + 3 and similar and now they just smash those characters to the trash bin.

At least, when the stock you invested in crashes, you are "just" angry because you lost money.

In MMOs, not only the stock crashes but you are also slapped in the face on the characters you love and cared for years.

There is. Taking time to really understand the changes, view them in comparison to all other changes (some races have been so much stronger than others), view them in the light of the power creep, view them in actual game play and not in some hypothetical instance.
We win absolutely nothing by panicking right now.

I know the history of ZOS not listening, but the answer is not impolitness, anger and so forth

I am one of the handful guys who got banned (twice) and mounted up an hell on the PTS forums until ZOS reverted their SICK "cast time shield" ultra-nerf.

If you don't act now and pre-empt their decisions, there's NO way you'll get fixed before 1 year.

I've played classes who stayed nerfed for 1-3 years, it's not fun. It's not fun being left out trials because of your race. I hate racism in RL, I hate it in a game, where MATH, not opinion, proves the utter future magicka dominance of Altmers over Dark Elves.

kathandira

I think the only ones who are really complaining are those who focus on the marginal differences. The majority of the community will not really notice a huge difference (Those who do not do Vet Hardmodes). Those who just do the Normal stuff will hardly be affected, which is the majority of the player base.

Mayrael

Ok PTS. As others mentioned, ZOS has bad habit of totally ignored feedback unless we rage at forums.
In general I like those changes, but what I don't like is complete overhaul of race passives and not giving us any way to change race of our characters without spending huge amounts of money, that's a dirty move. When they change skills they offer us almost free respecs, but somehow now they don't do that. Why? Once again that's a D... Move.

Tasear

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Sorry to be dumb, but where are the changes posted by ZoS?

Yes https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453551/upcoming-racial-balance-changes-for-update-21#latest

Vahrokh

Mayrael wrote: »

Ok PTS. As others mentioned, ZOS has bad habit of totally ignored feedback unless we rage at forums.
In general I like those changes, but what I don't like is complete overhaul of race passives and not giving us any way to change race of our characters without spending huge amounts of money, that's a dirty move. When they change skills they offer us almost free respecs, but somehow now they don't do that. Why? Once again that's a D... Move.

They need an injection of fresh cash, because Fallout 76 is dragging the whole mothership down.

Sanctuary_Reaper

Dunmer Magdk got well and truly shafted hard.

Skwor

Vahrokh wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

sha-ext wrote: »

snip

There's NOTHING to relax.

There are people here who spent hundreds euros and honed their main character to do hm vMOL, vAS + 3 and similar and now they just smash those characters to the trash bin.

At least, when the stock you invested in crashes, you are "just" angry because you lost money.

In MMOs, not only the stock crashes but you are also slapped in the face on the characters you love and cared for years.

There is. Taking time to really understand the changes, view them in comparison to all other changes (some races have been so much stronger than others), view them in the light of the power creep, view them in actual game play and not in some hypothetical instance.
We win absolutely nothing by panicking right now.

I know the history of ZOS not listening, but the answer is not impolitness, anger and so forth

I am one of the handful guys who got banned (twice) and mounted up an hell on the PTS forums until ZOS reverted their SICK "cast time shield" ultra-nerf.

If you don't act now and pre-empt their decisions, there's NO way you'll get fixed before 1 year.

I've played classes who stayed nerfed for 1-3 years, it's not fun. It's not fun being left out trials because of your race. I hate racism in RL, I hate it in a game, where MATH, not opinion, proves the utter future magicka dominance of Altmers over Dark Elves.

Having always played a breton templar since beta I can safely say this is nowhere near the nerfing you make it out to be. Also being a breton templar I know a thing or two about getting picked over in the min max world.

The min max world won't change and all you are really arguing about is which race gets excluded, I see more protectionism for you preferred race than a concern for others.

Arrodisia

People are more upset about the cost of race change being pushed on the player base for their(ZOS's) balancing mistakes than the actual race changes themselves imo. 1 token per account is poorly thought out.

Jaimeh

I'm sad for certain changes, but for the moment, it's best to keep calm and carry on; racial passives by themselves don't complete the picture, unless classes and builds come into play, so I'm eagerly waiting for the PTS.

Juju_beans

Every time there's a change the hypersensitive min/max players take to the forums with RIP, class is destroyed, race is destroyed, gameplay is destroyed.

Funny though..I still see plenty of sorcerers in game and that class was destroyed and DOA after the last change.

JadonSky

I like the new race changes. I think most people are mad because their class is now not "meta" and all their character where the same race to make them meta. Kinda like they Ninja on the release stream on Tuesday said he has all argonians lol. So now they are upset they cant change. It was known they Redguard, Altmer, and argonian for the top 3 races and everyone knew they would probably take a hit (even though altmer turned out pretty good).

I play Breton or imperial with the exception of one Altmer that I used as a pvp sorc that got nurfed anyways last patch. So I have no need to change race plus even if Breton got nerfed id still play it bc its just the class i play in every Elder Scrolls games.

But I feel for the people that are worried about meta and chose based on best states for their class, so I think the best solution to make people happy would be to give one free race/name change token then make race/name change tokens free or for a very low cost (10-100 crowns each) for the the first week or 2. This way the dedicated players that are on frequently have a chance to change any of their current characters. Then any old player that rejoin months later at least have 1 token available to them.