What's up with Orc max resource changes?

Pelican

Let's compare orc changes with dark elf changes:

Orc: Brawny: 6% Max Health and Stamina → Increases your Max Health and Stamina by 500.
Dark elf: Dynamic: 6% Max Stamina and Magicka → Increases your Max Stamina and Magicka by 1250.

Why is orc being given so much less max resources than dark elf even though both of them are originally at 6%? Shouldn't orc be given 1250 for both max hp and stam too, or at least 1000?

Brawny passive skill is basically useless now, but I'm confident that this is simply an oversight by the devs and it will be fixed.

Faulgor

I think the new Orcs are best compared to the new Altmer. Both have a damage bonus and a conditional resource return, but for some reason Orcs get 1000 less max stats. That's the lowest of all races by quite a bit, which doesn't fit the sturdy nature of Orcs at all.

Putting Brawny at 1000 health and stamina would be the most balanced choice.

TheYKcid

From what I gleaned from the patch notes, new passives aren't being converted from the old ones on a 1-to-1 basis. Rather, the entire race toolkit is being assessed as a whole to provide a consistent number of "set bonus equivalents" once you summate all their passives. So the deficiency in Orc's raw stats is meant to be compensated by the extra passives they have (sprinting, healing, recovery) for which the Dunmer has no equivalent.

Hybrid races (like Dunmer) also get slightly more total stats, reason being that their power is spread-out over more areas.

Vapirko

I agree. Although I’m overall happy with the new orc kit, 500 seems very very low. At least where stamina is concerned. For my PvP stamplar which is build to max Stam for PoL, that’s going to take a massive chunk of resources away. I have 39k stamina currently and I can’t imagine a scenario where I’ll lose less than 3-4K Stam maybe more although admittedly I’m just assuming. If someone else knows better do tag and let me know. I’m eager to get on PTS and see, don’t want to start yelling just yet. I could be wrong but this seems like it’ll benefit heavy armor Stam wardens the most. They’re barely going to need any recovery and they already don’t need much max Stam. But again it could look in practice.

Crixus8000

I loved orc but I will be changing races now. Everything was nerfed for my playstyle and the max stats are very small.

I mean orc is still good but for my stamsorc it will be worse now. Stamsorcs usually use tk and focus some hp rec since we lack survivability so I will be losing some of that. Stamsorcs get extra stam from bound armaments but no wep modifiers so that is worse. And the health loss and the small healing reveived loss too.

The sustain is ok but I would rather have max stam/hp rec again. I can see orc being better for some other builds now though.

Vapirko

Crixus8000 wrote: »

I loved orc but I will be changing races now. Everything was nerfed for my playstyle and the max stats are very small.

Yeah it is possible I’ll be going redguard for my orc, or maybe Nord but not sure yet. There’s still a lot of time and 500 seems really low. Maybe we can get them to reevaluate it once we get on PTS.

BaylorCorvette

On my current orc stamsorc with battle spirit it is 25.8k health and 32.1k stam. with the changes those stats drop to 24.8k health (1k health loss) and 30.8k stam (1.2k stam loss). What I did was remove my current racial passives and went into Cyrodiil this morning to see what my stats were without racial passives and then I just added what they said the "new" Orc Stats would be. If you build for max stam it will def hurt on Orc (I'm talking 35k+)

I also did some testing for tool tip damage. Tool tip for DB with the following conditions.

Steed Mundus with Orc swift warrior passive that gives 4% melee damage: 18,763
Warrior Mundus to simulate the 258 weapon damage Orc will be getting, but I removed the Orc swift warrior passive to eliminate the 4% melee damage: 18,935.

But we're going to lose about 1k or more max stam. So tool tips will be about the same.

DB, Spin2Win, Reverse Slice, etc are all going to be very similar in tooltips from live right now to the proposed PTS changes. However the "buff" aspect of it is that bow abilities and vigor tool tips will go up slightly. So the damage aspect is a net buff (even if it is a small one).

We are getting a sustain buff which is nice and the loss of the health recovery isn't terrible. I run medium armor with artaum broth and I will be down about 180 health recovery.

The only thing I feel Orc needs changed when look at the proposed PTS changes is that I think Orc should get 1k health & stam vs the 500 health and stam ZoS is proposing.

Glory

TheYKcid wrote: »

From what I gleaned from the patch notes, new passives aren't being converted from the old ones on a 1-to-1 basis. Rather, the entire race toolkit is being assessed as a whole to provide a consistent number of "set bonus equivalents" once you summate all their passives. So the deficiency in Orc's raw stats is meant to be compensated by the extra passives they have (sprinting, healing, recovery) for which the Dunmer has no equivalent.

Hybrid races (like Dunmer) also get slightly more total stats, reason being that their power is spread-out over more areas.

This is pretty much it.

For example, if you look at Argonian you will see it did not undergo the same conversions that other classes did. This is because it was overstatted compared to other classes, and the dev team removed enough of that overstat before converting to this "set bonus equivalent" style.

Ragnarock41

The extra weapon damage and sustain should more than make up for it. Though I agree 500 stam/hp sounds too small to be valueable.

My "meh" orc Dk just became a lot stronger thanks to these changes(sDks love flat sustain and weapon damage) and Im no longer forced to wear troll king to utilize the hp regen passive, because its gone but whatever really. TK builds were really overtuned.

Orc got changed in a really good way , it might need small buffs to max stam but thats it.

Samsquanch

The real problem lies in the fact that dark elf gets more than twice as much max Stam (1250 for dark elf, 500 for orc) and dark elf also gets 258 weapon and spell damage where as orc only gets 258 weapon damage.

Dark elves get more magicka for utility on top of this. And they even get 100 more max health?

At least bump the orc bonuses up to 1000 or give us a couple thousand resistances. If you aren’t willing to bump up the orc stats, then the dark elf should have a weapon damage bonus reduction.

validifyedneb18_ESO

The dark elf conversion is consistent with the translation ratio used for high elves magicka. Just to get that out of the way.

From what ZOS put in the post every race now has the same total "set value" from their passives, so the only real thing that goes into this is if there are passives that dont play into the right narrative.

Like, cold and fire resist. Sure, they add "set value", but that set value could have been used for stats regeneration for example.

In this case, you've seen the same happening, ZOS have put less value on orcs maxstat and health in favor of other passives.

barshemm

I think if these changes go live as is, I may have to race change to redguard or Nord for pvp Stam sorc. The sustain is going to be great for my pve Stam sorc though. Sad Orcs are now better for pve than pvp, so much for the warrior race.

Vapirko

barshemm wrote: »

I think if these changes go live as is, I may have to race change to redguard or Nord for pvp Stam sorc. The sustain is going to be great for my pve Stam sorc though. Sad Orcs are now better for pve than pvp, so much for the warrior race.

It’s jsut a max stat loss. Orcs will still be good, and you still get the speed bonus and sprint reduction not to mention an extra 190 stamina and health return. Let’s just see how the max stats work out on the PTS. I think it is low, especially for me I have a 39k stamina Templar, so I know there’s gonna be a big hit there, and maybe we can get them to change some stuff if it looks too severe.

Banana

Usain bolts dont need max resources

sneakymitchell

You get weapon damage which had effect on every stam damage/heal/shield.

ccfeeling

They suck at maths

Casul

I would love if orcs got there weapon damage passive to work like this

Once you enter combat gain 100 weapon damage every 5 seconds, capping at 500 weapon damage. So after 25 seconds the orc goes into a berserk mode and gets higher damage as a result. Would be good for PvE and PvE I think.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

BuildMan wrote: »

I would love if orcs got there weapon damage passive to work like this

Once you enter combat gain 100 weapon damage every 5 seconds, capping at 500 weapon damage. So after 25 seconds the orc goes into a berserk mode and gets higher damage as a result. Would be good for PvE and PvE I think.

Make it every 5 seconds and I love this ldea.

BaylorCorvette

BuildMan wrote: »

I would love if orcs got there weapon damage passive to work like this

Once you enter combat gain 100 weapon damage every 5 seconds, capping at 500 weapon damage. So after 25 seconds the orc goes into a berserk mode and gets higher damage as a result. Would be good for PvE and PvE I think.

Well since we're usually perma stuck in combat now in Cyrodiil that would be OP AF.

Casul

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

I would love if orcs got there weapon damage passive to work like this

Once you enter combat gain 100 weapon damage every 5 seconds, capping at 500 weapon damage. So after 25 seconds the orc goes into a berserk mode and gets higher damage as a result. Would be good for PvE and PvE I think.

Make it every 5 seconds and I love this ldea.

@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
? I’m confused

My idea is 100 WD every 5 seconds, stacking 5 times (25 seconds for max)

Casul

BaylorCorvette wrote: »

BuildMan wrote: »

I would love if orcs got there weapon damage passive to work like this

Once you enter combat gain 100 weapon damage every 5 seconds, capping at 500 weapon damage. So after 25 seconds the orc goes into a berserk mode and gets higher damage as a result. Would be good for PvE and PvE I think.

Well since we're usually perma stuck in combat now in Cyrodiil that would be OP AF.

I disagree since the other orc passives are pretty lackluster.