The new High Elf mitigation passive is useless

ZeroXFF

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This should instead be this:

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When this effect is on cooldown, reduce damage taken by 5%.

Nobody uses channeled skills when they can avoid it. This would actually make High Elves worth considering as tanks. But with the current proposal they are only good for a single role: mag DD.

Nazzraeda

My altmer magwarden toon who sometimes offtanks trials would beg to differ. Altmers new BiS race for Deep Thoughts channel confirmed.

SaintSubwayy

Nazzraeda wrote: »

My altmer magwarden on which I sometimes offtank trials would beg to disagree. Altmers new BiS race for Deep Thoughts channel confirmed.

the 5% from Altmerpassive and the 30% major protection probably wont stack, like no % mitigation does.

30% dmg rediction and another 5% from the remaining 70%, so in Total you will only gain 3,5% more reduction, from this passive.
Probably even less, when taking CP, armor etc into the calculation.

Nazzraeda

Yeah I know it's not anything that would make altmer tanks BiS, but hey, it's a tiny flavor that adds something extra to the race apart from generic max mag/sustain/damage passives

Xsorus

Rofl; Altmer magicka Templar got a straight huge buff with the change.

ZeroXFF

Nazzraeda wrote: »

My altmer magwarden toon who sometimes offtanks trials would beg to differ. Altmers new BiS race for Deep Thoughts channel confirmed.

So this passive is useful with just exactly 1 skill that you need to buy an expansion for. How exactly is it again in line with the goal they set for making all races useful for different play styles?

Nazzraeda

As I said above - it's tiny flavor which in my eyes is welcome, as it's not anything game changing yet adds something that moves racials beyond generic flat buffs to regen/resources. Also, this passive is useful with ton of other skills that have channel time. Jesus beam, altar, soul assault, deep thoughts, dark deal etc. are just a few off the top of my head. 5% reduction is not a game changer but is nice to have. I don't really understand your problem with it.

Also, with current nerf to % resources more races are viable tank choices as they will not have drastically lower HP then previous imperial/argonian/whatever health juggernauts. As I said, I was able to off tank in every vTrial on my MAGICKA altmer tank then, so now it will be even nicer for me. 5% reduction and as @SaintSubwayy pointed out above - probably even less, but it's there and I'm fine with it. Every little bit helps.

TheYKcid

It's not useless—Altmer Magplars are going to get some SERIOUS mileage out if it.

For Magsorcs—the main users of Altmer—there won't be a whole lot, I'll admit. But it will be useful when using Dark Conversion under pressure, mitigating some of the downsides of a time-delayed heal.

All-in-all, Altmer users are getting a nice power bump (once you factor in the new spell damage bonus). No complaints from me.

Mayrael

It shouldn't be defensive but offensive one, to add some damage to skills like dark flare, crystal blast, sweeps, jesus beam, soul assault etc.

Tasear

magicka tank... also maybe a since for necromancers...

ZeroXFF

Nazzraeda wrote: »

As I said above - it's tiny flavor which in my eyes is welcome, as it's not anything game changing yet adds something that moves racials beyond generic flat buffs to regen/resources. Also, this passive is useful with ton of other skills that have channel time. Jesus beam, altar, soul assault, deep thoughts, dark deal etc. are just a few off the top of my head. 5% reduction is not a game changer but is nice to have. I don't really understand your problem with it.

Also, with current nerf to % resources more races are viable tank choices as they will not have drastically lower HP then previous imperial/argonian/whatever health juggernauts. As I said, I was able to off tank in every vTrial on my MAGICKA altmer tank then, so now it will be even nicer for me. 5% reduction and as @SaintSubwayy pointed out above - probably even less, but it's there and I'm fine with it. Every little bit helps.

I couldn't care less about 5% mitigation for 0.1% of a fight duration in situations when I don't take damage anyways. That's nothing. Also, how many tanks do you see running around jesus beaming? And if it was done the way I suggest, you'd still get that buff while doing all that.

Just to reiterate, I don't hate on it because it's 5%, I hate on it because it's niche to the point of uselessness as the uptime on it will be tiny on any serious build, especially a tank build, and in case of the latter it will be up in situations when tanks don't take a lot of damage anyways (no tank drops block and starts channeling dark deal when the boss is about to hit him with a heavy attack). If this mechanic would have been in any way useful you'd see a lot more people running with the Light of Cyrodiil set.

Lughlongarm

With or without the mitigation passive, altmer is still the king of magicka dps, how can you say it doesn't shine in any role?

ZeroXFF

Lughlongarm wrote: »

With or without the mitigation passive, altmer is still the king of magicka dps, how can you say it doesn't shine in any role?

I did not say that. You should read my first post again.

SaintSubwayy

Lughlongarm wrote: »

With or without the mitigation passive, altmer is still the king of magicka dps, how can you say it doesn't shine in any role?

well only role it may shine is meele Magplar, and thats it.

Templar is the only class which has a channeled Spammable (flurry left out, since its stam anyways)

So magplar is the probably best role to get something out of thi spassive, and even there the uptime is like 5% for 5% mitigation, so jeah its useless.

better give them 500 Resistance, this would probably already outperfom those 5%

StarOfElyon

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This should instead be this:

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When this effect is on cooldown, reduce damage taken by 5%.

Nobody uses channeled skills when they can avoid it. This would actually make High Elves worth considering as tanks. But with the current proposal they are only good for a single role: mag DD.

The Templar's Puncturing Sweeps, Dark Flare, and Radiant Destruction are all channels and this passive is much needed. (and it helps Rite of Passage too)

StarOfElyon

Mayrael wrote: »

It shouldn't be defensive but offensive one, to add some damage to skills like dark flare, crystal blast, sweeps, jesus beam, soul assault etc.

Magicka characters have their best passives in light armor so more defense is desperately needed. Damage in this game is already high with proc sets.

Emma_Overload

It's not useless.

TheYKcid

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Nazzraeda wrote: »

My altmer magwarden on which I sometimes offtank trials would beg to disagree. Altmers new BiS race for Deep Thoughts channel confirmed.

the 5% from Altmerpassive and the 30% major protection probably wont stack, like no % mitigation does.

30% dmg rediction and another 5% from the remaining 70%, so in Total you will only gain 3,5% more reduction, from this passive.
Probably even less, when taking CP, armor etc into the calculation.

Just a correction—ALL %-based mitigation stacks, as long as you don't have any duplicate buffs of the same name. So yes, it's going to stack with Major Protection. As well as Minor Protection, and other bonuses such as those from CP.

ZeroXFF

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This should instead be this:

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When this effect is on cooldown, reduce damage taken by 5%.

Nobody uses channeled skills when they can avoid it. This would actually make High Elves worth considering as tanks. But with the current proposal they are only good for a single role: mag DD.

The Templar's Puncturing Sweeps, Dark Flare, and Radiant Destruction are all channels and this passive is much needed.

How many of those skills are used by tanks? Hell, how many of them are used by DDs? Dark Flare isn't even used by PvPers. So it's only one skill of a single spec of a single class in just execute that would benefit from this.

How is this fulfilling the stated goal of making all races usable with different play styles?

I even have a high elf magplar tank, and this passive gives me nothing. The only channeled skill I use is puncturing sweep, and I only use it when I barely take damage anyways.

Pelican

The new passive will be very useful for magplars channelling jabs/soul assault/jesus beam/rite of passage, it will also be very useful for magsorcs because it makes you less vulnerable while channelling conversion and especially recasting pets.
The new passive looks unremarkable, but it is a small thing that can make a huge difference in a fight.

Lughlongarm

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

With or without the mitigation passive, altmer is still the king of magicka dps, how can you say it doesn't shine in any role?

I did not say that. You should read my first post again.

You are right, I didn't read it right, but I think the point still stands. Altmer got an additional "role option", as limited as it might be. It always used to be, and still is, the go to race if you want to do max dps on a magicka build. You do have some competing options with the upcoming changes, but I'm almost sure altmers will take the lead.

StarOfElyon

ZeroXFF wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This should instead be this:

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When this effect is on cooldown, reduce damage taken by 5%.

Nobody uses channeled skills when they can avoid it. This would actually make High Elves worth considering as tanks. But with the current proposal they are only good for a single role: mag DD.

The Templar's Puncturing Sweeps, Dark Flare, and Radiant Destruction are all channels and this passive is much needed.

How many of those skills are used by tanks? Hell, how many of them are used by DDs? Dark Flare isn't even used by PvPers. So it's only one skill of a single spec of a single class in just execute that would benefit from this.

How is this fulfilling the stated goal of making all races usable with different play styles?

I even have a high elf magplar tank, and this passive gives me nothing. The only channeled skill I use is puncturing sweep, and I only use it when I barely take damage anyways.

Then you don't need the passives because you've replaced them with the benefits of heavy armor. But since Altmer specialize in magicka, it makes sense that they would have to mitigate some of the shortcomings of wearing light armor. Altmer in heavy armor didn't get buffed but I don't think it's a big hit to your game.

ZeroXFF

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

ZeroXFF wrote: »

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. Reduces damage taken by 5% while you are using an ability with a cast or channel time.

This should instead be this:

Spell Recharge: Restore 575 Magicka or Stamina, based on whichever is higher, after activating a Class Ability. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds. When this effect is on cooldown, reduce damage taken by 5%.

Nobody uses channeled skills when they can avoid it. This would actually make High Elves worth considering as tanks. But with the current proposal they are only good for a single role: mag DD.

The Templar's Puncturing Sweeps, Dark Flare, and Radiant Destruction are all channels and this passive is much needed.

How many of those skills are used by tanks? Hell, how many of them are used by DDs? Dark Flare isn't even used by PvPers. So it's only one skill of a single spec of a single class in just execute that would benefit from this.

How is this fulfilling the stated goal of making all races usable with different play styles?

I even have a high elf magplar tank, and this passive gives me nothing. The only channeled skill I use is puncturing sweep, and I only use it when I barely take damage anyways.

Then you don't need the passives because you've replaced them with the benefits of heavy armor. But since Altmer specialize in magicka, it makes sense that they would have to mitigate some of the shortcomings of wearing light armor. Altmer in heavy armor didn't get buffed but I don't think it's a big hit to your game.

But this doesn't mitigate the shortcomings of light armor for 4/5 classes, and even for the one class that could make use of it it's too situational to be in line with their stated goal.

You know how it would offset the shortcomings of light armor though? If it was implemented the way I suggest in the first post.

Stx

Even if you completely take away the 5% mitigation the altmer radials are still fantastic so I really dont understand the complaints.

StarOfElyon

I don't see how this negatively effects your game though. It's just that you didn't get more effective in heavy armor. I'm not dismissing your complaints. But as a light armor, Altmer Templar, my character needs these passives. I'm sorry your more "out of the box" playstyle isn't getting a boost though.

CatchMeTrolling

You mean you don’t like the passive personally. It’ll be good for magplars. I feel you don’t actually pvp because you said more people would be using cyrodiils light when Templar’s do use that.

It’s clear it wasn’t meant for every build. The same way other races have perks that’s not for every build. If we follow that logic we’ll be cherry picking every race.

ccloyesb14_ESO

I'll make use of it on my warden.

ZeroXFF

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You mean you don’t like the passive personally. It’ll be good for magplars. I feel you don’t actually pvp because you said more people would be using cyrodiils light when Templar’s do use that.

It’s clear it wasn’t meant for every build. The same way other races have perks that’s not for every build. If we follow that logic we’ll be cherry picking every race.

The perks are very powerful in their niche. This one isn't. Khajiit 5m sneak bonus is massive. So if you want to go that way, let's do it.

5% mitigation is of marginal use even if it's up 100% of the time, that's why people go for 3% more HP of imperials over 6% mitigation of nords right now (not to mention argonians healing and resources which are just in a league of their own). Tying these 5% to a 0.1% uptime in situations when it wouldn't make a difference anyways is quite frankly a joke and not a perk.

CatchMeTrolling

ZeroXFF wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

You mean you don’t like the passive personally. It’ll be good for magplars. I feel you don’t actually pvp because you said more people would be using cyrodiils light when Templar’s do use that.

It’s clear it wasn’t meant for every build. The same way other races have perks that’s not for every build. If we follow that logic we’ll be cherry picking every race.

The perks are very powerful in their niche. This one isn't. Khajiit 5m sneak bonus is massive. So if you want to go that way, let's do it.

5% mitigation is of marginal use even if it's up 100% of the time, that's why people go for 3% more HP of imperials over 6% mitigation of nords right now (not to mention argonians healing and resources which are just in a league of their own). Tying these 5% to a 0.1% uptime in situations when it wouldn't make a difference anyways is quite frankly a joke and not a perk.

People don’t use nords because they’d rather use argonian plus they aren’t flexible. Not many people even play imperial because their passives are lackluster. Maybe in pve.

As far as mitigation perks sure players don’t roll Nord but in pvp players make use of mitigation skills and gear. Such as major protection, minor protection and sets like cyrodiils light. The only difference with this passive is it favors a particular class but like I said we can apply the same thing with other passives.

Minno

Stx wrote: »

Even if you completely take away the 5% mitigation the altmer radials are still fantastic so I really dont understand the complaints.

Agreed. and 5% mitigation is still 5% mitigation. It only boosts your overall total mitigation by a lower number.
But if you arent rolling in mitigation sets, you can combine 5% with something like cyro light for another 15% in channels and then use meditate for major protection to get some obscene mitigation.

And remember this form of mitigation will likely mitigate bleeds. Jabbing while hit by a bleed on a magplar will be great synergy for high elf come pts, I imagine, especially using cyros light.

xStaticx

Wouldn't this passive also effect channeling a heavy attack like from a lightning staff?