Having reservations about diving back in

Kalgert

So every now and then I like to jump on to the forums and see what people are talking about. Sometimes I see some really funny stuff, other times it's pretty dismal.

Though now I see that there will be a new class coming in with an expansion, and Necromancers no less. I will adnit, a part of the is rather tempted, but ultimately I can't sas I really want to get back in to the game.

I do like and respect the game, sunk a good amount of time and money in to it, so I can't say I feel too keen on completely abandoning the game. However since it is an MMO, I wish to do MMO activities with a few ambitious desires involved in it.

Although those ambitious desires of playing as a DPS tend to get stiffled, when my memories of Dungeons consist of people using one or two AoE abilities consistently and end uo outdamaging everyone in the group, while I essentially played piano with my abilities and didn't get very close to their damage numbers.

So... What does everyone else think in regards to this conundrum?

russelmmendoza

Its the year of the dragons. If thats not enough for you then it not worth coming back.

On dps practice is best. Race class sets skill rotation are important as practicing. I used to dps with 10-15k. Got it to 30-33k dps with practice. Still low but good enough for vet hm dungeons and some vet trials.

Kalgert

russelmmendoza wrote: »

Its the year of the dragons. If thats not enough for you then it not worth coming back.

On dps practice is best.

This was all I could read before I simply stopped properly following the response.

"Year of the dragons". So I guess this means that dragons are gonna be flying around the world? While that does sound exciting, I actually don't find that compelling enough to dive in. Necromancers do sound quite good, but at the same time, it's just that I have no real reason to go play the game, if the only thing that I can do are Normal dungeons with any reasonable hope of actually seeing them to the end (Which are ***-easy and with 'roided up badasses running around in there, makes them a complete waste of time).

And your "Practice is best" mantra sounds like a buzzword for "I don't have anything better to say to explain what is wrong, so I'll just copy-paste a response", as it doesn't explain how someone is capable of out-DPS'ing someone actually putting in a lot of effort, with only the spam of one AoE ability, maybe two abilities (Yes, I do actually keep an eye out, and more often than not it's just spamming an AoE ability that outdamages everyone around).

I had a spellcaster that I focused on Fire damage with. Both staves were fire, I slotted a lot of damage over time/AoE abilities, a buff for my spell damage and to lower the resistances on my target. Essentially a single-target build that certainly would do a lot of damage (Even had gear that supported fire damage). I played the abilities like a freakin' piano, and all I could muster was 13k at most. While certainly some random hobo would jump in, throw down one AoE ability and do 20k easily. Where the *** is the logic in that? Only cements how the PvE is a hot load of garbage.

P.S: I like the subtle flex about your DPS. Real classy.

Tandor

Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you do, then play it. If you don't, then why come back? We can no more advise you on that than we can tell you which main course to pick at your local restaurant. If you're on PC you could, of course, give the PTS a whirl in a short while and see how you feel without making any commitment one way or the other.

RogueShark

I can guarantee you that people who are actively participating and CONTRIBUTING to end-game content are not just spamming "one or two AoEs" and out-DPSing all their friends who are pushing more buttons.

"Kalgert wrote: »

"While certainly some random hobo would jump in, throw down one AoE ability and do 20k easily. Where the *** is the logic in that?

You're going to see AoEs doing more damage when you're running through dungeons... because dungeons are full of trash packs that get pulled together, and if you aren't AoEing them... then you should be. I would stress that this, in particular, shouldn't make you feel bad. If there's a pack of mobs, AoE is just going to out-DPS single target, because they're hitting all the mobs while you're focused on one.

@russelmmendoza telling you to practice isn't just hot air. This game isn't like other MMOs, like WoW, where your light attacks are done for you and all you have to worry about is your rotation/priority. I see my guildies parsing constantly, trying to perfect their light-attack weaving and get their rotation down pat. It DOES take time and practice.

You can play any way you want, but there will always, in any game, be certain skills/builds/etc that will be best for each class. I don't necessarily advocate looking up builds and following them blindly, but using them for guidance to see what meshes well with other skills doesn't hurt.


All that being said, if you don't enjoy the gameplay then it's probably not worth coming back. I know people who have tried to get into ESO and the combat just didn't click with them. It happens.

EllieBlue

Tandor wrote: »

Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you do, then play it. If you don't, then why come back? We can no more advise you on that than we can tell you which main course to pick at your local restaurant. If you're on PC you could, of course, give the PTS a whirl in a short while and see how you feel without making any commitment one way or the other.

100% Agree with the above. Either you do or you don't.

Kalgert

Tandor wrote: »

Either you enjoy the game or you don't. If you do, then play it. If you don't, then why come back? We can no more advise you on that than we can tell you which main course to pick at your local restaurant. If you're on PC you could, of course, give the PTS a whirl in a short while and see how you feel without making any commitment one way or the other.

I think I did state in the original post that I respect the game. Which essentially means "I like this game". Which I do. Though if you read further in to the posts I made, you'd probably have an idea why I am being cautious about jumping back in to it.

RogueShark wrote: »

I can guarantee you that people who are actively participating and CONTRIBUTING to end-game content are not just spamming "one or two AoEs" and out-DPSing all their friends who are pushing more buttons

It has been a while since I did play the game, but the last dungeon I did, I saw someone essentially dashing forward and melted everything with only using one or two abilities at most. Maybe an ultimate as well for burst damage, but it was barely using their entire bar of abilities. How do you explain that?

RogueShark wrote: »

You're going to see AoEs doing more damage when you're running through dungeons... because dungeons are full of trash packs that get pulled together, and if you aren't AoEing them... then you should be. I would stress that this, in particular, shouldn't make you feel bad. If there's a pack of mobs, AoE is just going to out-DPS single target, because they're hitting all the mobs while you're focused on one.

@russelmmendoza telling you to practice isn't just hot air. This game isn't like other MMOs, like WoW, where your light attacks are done for you and all you have to worry about is your rotation/priority. I see my guildies parsing constantly, trying to perfect their light-attack weaving and get their rotation down pat. It DOES take time and practice.

You can play any way you want, but there will always, in any game, be certain skills/builds/etc that will be best for each class. I don't necessarily advocate looking up builds and following them blindly, but using them for guidance to see what meshes well with other skills doesn't hurt.


All that being said, if you don't enjoy the gameplay then it's probably not worth coming back. I know people who have tried to get into ESO and the combat just didn't click with them. It happens.

It isn't even packs of mobs that get melted by these singular AoE casts. It's bosses too. Although there these people did actually do a bit more than just spam one AoE ability, but they still barely showed much effort compared to me, and essentially single-handedly killed the boss, outdamaging everyone around them. And no one seems to be giving an explanation beyond "Practice you must", like some demented Yoda.

And yes, it is hot air. Because I actually have a skeleton in my house that I did beat on, and I showed 13k DPS at most with all my single target damage with DoTs and spell resistance lowerings and everything that would buff my attacks on the skeleton. Meanwhile someone who'd probably barely show any effort would likely do twice my damage without any problem (Though I do remember the skeleton going down in about 5-6 minutes of me constantly whacking him by myself. Is that good? How do I know, nobody bothers telling me apart from saying the same old thing). All of this is mostly coming from me doing normal dungeons, those being a breeze because a bunch of fake tanks and healers go in, play as DPS, smash through the content, and win the day, while veteran dungeons I can barely get in to without getting one-shot, or being boo'd at because I am not doing super duper ultra Triple X DPS.

And that is the problem, the whole "Play any way you want" approach. While really welcoming and fun yes, but it doesn't mix well with the whole fine-tuning of dungeon encounters/PvE content that requires following of mechanics. Eventually you will get bogged down with having to keep track of variables to really "Push it to the Limit", so to speak, and at that point it's not all that enjoyable, is it? I'd rather have a game where classes are fine-tuned with fine-tuned PvE content, rather than freeform classes with fine-tuned PvE content. You can have one or the other, but not both.

I like the gameplay. I hate the Engame PvE, and I also hate players who do said endgame PvE and are absolutely useless in giving proper explanations or advice to someone who may want to be doing harder stuff and is open for advice. Like a guild leader told my girlfriend nothing nice or positive, only said "Do this, do that", not complimenting her survivability (While the leader died a few times during the boss encounter), making her bail out.

Long story short: PvE Endgame in ESO is hot garbage, and it makes me not want to play the game, despite me actually enjoying the core gameplay.

RogueShark

I guess I should step back a second and ask... what's your class/spec and what level or CP are you? This is important information to try and help out. ^^

I'll reassure that normal dungeons are not a place to worry or test your 'worth' because, like you even said, most of the time you're getting a full group of DPS and they just want to plow through it as fast as possible. You aren't going to get much chance to do a lot of DPS if everything is being AoE'd down immediately. This is also not 'end game' content to compare to.

It's unfortunate that you (and your girlfriend) have had poor experiences with raiding (I assume?) but that's not how every guild or every trial will go. I've seen that there are a lot of people available in-game and on the forums who are more than willing to give advice.

russelmmendoza

Whelp I was doing 10-15k dps when I was button mashing.

Then I practice a lot on the mantra:
This is my main toon mantra, redgard stamblade.
5 relequen 5 adv yokeda 2 selene dw bow purple.

Frontbar dw.
Fb skill. Rendering slash, killers blade, surprise attack, rearming trap, relentless focus, dawnbreaker smithing

Backbar bow
Poison injection, razor caltrops, endless hail, evil hunter, siphoning strike, dawnbreaker smithing.

Start with:
relentless focus
barswap
La Siphoning strike
La endless hail
La razor caltrops
La poison injection
Barswap
La rendering slash
La rearming trap
La surprise attack (3×)
Rinse repeat.

Use spectral bow when its ready.
Use dawnbreaker when available.
Use killers blade instead of surprise attack when target hp is less than 25%.

It took me a month to get it done right. If you make a mistake on rotation just continue youll memorize it with practice.

freespirit

Jump back in only if you're going to have fun!

I don't do 4 man dungeons because well I don't like them!

My fun comes from Trials, selling, housing and PVP

Everyone is different, if dungeons are your preferred gameplay then you will encounter all of the stuff you dislike, expand your parameters you might have fun

idk

If you have reservations about returning this it not the right time.

Between the racial passive changes and Zos finally working on developing a vision for combat in this game after 5 years of being live we should expect a lot of changes.

It may be best to wait and see. Zos does not have a great track record of thinking things through. Think of the CP release with no CP cap and Zos expected the average player to ear the full 3600 points in less than 2 years. Not exactly their best thought process.

adeptusminor

It sounds like you want to do as much damage as a top tier end game player without really putting much effort into it. You said you practiced on a target dummy, but if you are just practicing a bad rotation with a bad skill setup it's not going to help. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Of course CP and gear will make a difference, but it primarily comes down to your rotation. You say that you max out at 13k dps....that's not that great honestly (depending on your level). With a VMA staff, if I just heavy attack my max CP char does 10k. If you want to improve your dps there are plenty of people both here on the forums and in game and places like Alcast's discord that are more than willing to help you, but you said you don't enjoy getting bogged down with keeping track of the variables and that's sort of a requirement if you want to do top tier damage. So again, it just sounds like you want to be as good as the better players while not enjoying or wanting to do what is required to achieve that.

edit: You also wrote that you hate endgame PVE. If that's the case and you don't want to do any endgame content like trials or vet dungeons, your dps isn't really relevant, so I'm not sure what exactly the issue is.

rynth

Kalgert wrote: »

So every now and then I like to jump on to the forums and see what people are talking about. Sometimes I see some really funny stuff, other times it's pretty dismal.

Though now I see that there will be a new class coming in with an expansion, and Necromancers no less. I will adnit, a part of the is rather tempted, but ultimately I can't sas I really want to get back in to the game.

I do like and respect the game, sunk a good amount of time and money in to it, so I can't say I feel too keen on completely abandoning the game. However since it is an MMO, I wish to do MMO activities with a few ambitious desires involved in it.

Although those ambitious desires of playing as a DPS tend to get stiffled, when my memories of Dungeons consist of people using one or two AoE abilities consistently and end uo outdamaging everyone in the group, while I essentially played piano with my abilities and didn't get very close to their damage numbers.

So... What does everyone else think in regards to this conundrum?

If you base any type of judgement on the forums then I say you better not come back vast majority of forums is poison except for a few insightful posts. Also if you need to post something like this then you shouldn't come back, fact that you feel need post something like this just adding to another complaining thread for people and probably yourself as well judging by your responses.

CH77

I too am thinking about coming back to the game.
Since launch it was the only game I ever played until Murkmire dropped.
The latency to Australia since that patch went skyward and it became unplayable.
I'm guessing there's no change (something to do with Akamal or something - some DDOS preventative measure rerouting (I know nothing about these things)...going by forum posts) but I'm so keen to get back into the game

jainiadral

Just jump in and see for yourself! I'm assuming since you've already played that you've paid for at least the base game, so all it costs is some time to download the game. You don't have anything to lose.

Yuffie91

It sounds like you only think negative things and are trying to find people to flower it up for you so you have an excuse to come back..which seems pretty pointless

Kel

Yuffie91 wrote: »

It sounds like you only think negative things and are trying to find people to flower it up for you so you have an excuse to come back..which seems pretty pointless

Yeah, I'd say he's here to just argue with people.
This thread is absolutely pointless.