Would you like the floaty combat to be overhauled?

Royaji

Darkstorne wrote: »

The combat is undeniably awful, but most players will compare it to decade-old MMOs and cite literally any improvement over those as a sign that it’s in a good place. The fact that animation cancelling still causing damage before an animation connects has now been labeled a “feature” shows that combat is never going to change though. Yet again, a lot of players embrace that as a good thing, because they think “fixing” animation cancelling means removing the ability to cancel animations altogether rather than adjusting the point in an animation that damage is dealt.

And a lot of people do not comprehend that there is no such thing as "point in animation that damage is dealt" in ESO's system. Instant skills are just that, instant. Not bound to animation at all.

And making skills resolve at the end of the animation is equivalent to adding cast time to every single skill in the game. Why is that a bad idea?
1) Name me a cast time skill that people like. None of them feel good to use. Nobody wants to have all their skills work like Uppercut.
2) It will increase the load on the servers significantly which contradicts your second point. Instead of simple "button is pressed (or more specifically released) > resolve skill" you end up with "button > start cast time > check that cast time is over > resolve skill".

The current trend is simplifieing calculations for the sake of performance, your proposal will be a massive step back on that area.

jcm2606

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

This game is popular because of the weave/rotation system most fluid combat in an MMORPG that's worth playing. People leave when they burn out playing way to much and blame on the game.

No. People hate the "weave" nonsense. It's an annoying gimmick that the game would be better without.

Seriously, do we want combat to be based around intelligent use of skills and situational awareness, or manual dexterity in mindless button pressing?

Then I mustn't qualify as a person, because I, for one, enjoy how fluid and dynamic weaving and animation cancelling makes the combat system.

darkblue5

Try necromancer. ZOS actually made the animations work with how the game is played.

Uviryth

jcm2606 wrote: »

Then I mustn't qualify as a person, because I, for one, enjoy how fluid and dynamic weaving and animation cancelling makes the combat system.

What exactly do you think is "fluid" about it? If anything, its about as clunky as they come, in feel and in view.

fred4

I literally have no idea what the OP is talking about.

BNOC

fred4 wrote: »

I literally have no idea what the OP is talking about.

It appears he's talking about clipping animations but he may just be on about the animations in general not being up to standard.

He also said that "you'll find plenty of people on Reddit and other gaming forums saying that they like ESO but cannot stand its combat and have stopped playing because of it." which honestly, doesn't surprise me as they are literally bottom of the barrel players in terms of comprehension.

If we ever took Reddit forum ESO'ers seriously then we'd all be riding around in sunflowers and there would be no combat at all, only hand holding and dialogue.

Emma_Overload

Cerra wrote: »

When you hit and do damage there should be a change to the animation. Your sword shouldn't just whoosh through the target's body like you missed. Also, if you cancel an animation it should cancel the attack the animation was representing. Don't lock you into an animation if you need to cancel to block or dodge, but also don't allow the previous attack to finish if you didn't give it the time to finish.

No, this would be horrible for ESO. Players would accidentally cancel intentional actions all the time, and the forums would be in an uproar.

bulbousb16_ESO

jcm2606 wrote: »

Then I mustn't qualify as a person, because I, for one, enjoy how fluid and dynamic weaving and animation cancelling makes the combat system.

Most likely not. There is nothing "fluid and dynamic" about mindlessly pressing buttons in a regular rotation without any thought to the situation on the ground. Perhaps you are some kind of AI?

Uviryth

BNOC wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I literally have no idea what the OP is talking about.

It appears he's talking about clipping animations but he may just be on about the animations in general not being up to standard.

He also said that "you'll find plenty of people on Reddit and other gaming forums saying that they like ESO but cannot stand its combat and have stopped playing because of it." which honestly, doesn't surprise me as they are literally bottom of the barrel players in terms of comprehension.

If we ever took Reddit forum ESO'ers seriously then we'd all be riding around in sunflowers and there would be no combat at all, only hand holding and dialogue.

I agree about Reddit, yet they are not wrong at this. If you talk to any ex-ESOplayer as to why they left, its almost always the Combat, sometimes the CP-System.

BNOC

Uviryth wrote: »

BNOC wrote: »

fred4 wrote: »

I literally have no idea what the OP is talking about.

It appears he's talking about clipping animations but he may just be on about the animations in general not being up to standard.

He also said that "you'll find plenty of people on Reddit and other gaming forums saying that they like ESO but cannot stand its combat and have stopped playing because of it." which honestly, doesn't surprise me as they are literally bottom of the barrel players in terms of comprehension.

If we ever took Reddit forum ESO'ers seriously then we'd all be riding around in sunflowers and there would be no combat at all, only hand holding and dialogue.

I agree about Reddit, yet they are not wrong at this. If you talk to any ex-ESOplayer as to why they left, its almost always the Combat, sometimes the CP-System.

The players I know that have left (quite a lot, all max CP so that's not their issue) almost always blame it on "The patch nerfed my character", "Sorcs are **** now" or simply "New game, me like" etc.

Whilst that is related to combat, it's not in the sense of animations and weaving and often is just a hurdle that they choose not to try jump.

Anti_Virus

It’s overall good but with a Big issue:

Weapons disappearing during animations.

Its a big pet peeve and immersion breaking on classes like templar who wields a 2h but will disappear when using bitting jabs and reappear when the animation finishes.

Same can be said with Nightblade, and upcoming necromancer.

At least warden and sorc had fine tuned animations.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

From point and click to tab target to action combat, ESO’s combat has been my favorite, though Tera had some cool combat.

The whole animation canceling has been an argument for years but I think it’s a nice little “separate the men/women from the boys/girls”.

If there was anything about combat or movement in general I didn’t like it would be jumping. It doesn’t feel right.

Bradyfjord

The only time it feels 'floaty' for me is when I get a bad ping spike. Usually, I experience this when near a siege battle, or a lot of effects going on.


TLDR: I don't think it is a bad combat system that causes problems, but how our computers interact with the servers.

kmontywrwb17_ESO

I can't understand how anyone can play ESO and not acknowledge that the combat is bland and lacks meaningful feedback, and effect. WoW's combat is direct, and everything you choose and do has an impact. With ESO, I can literally just default fire my bow and it feels the same as using my skills damage-wise. It's spongy and unsatisfying.

I don't know what Zenimax are doing, but as others here have said, improving the combat should be their number one priority. It is the biggest thing holding the game back. The world itself is beautiful.

jlmurra2

Combat only felt "floaty" to me when I had just began playing. Now that I am adjusted to it, it feels perfectly suited.

fred4

Kaladinar wrote: »

I've played for hundreds of hours in ESO, mostly in the first couple of years after the PC launch. After stopping for a while, I've always continued to follow the game's updates and expansions, planning to return at one point or another since I like most of the game's core mechanics and I have enjoyed exploring the various regions.

However, there is one system that kept me from coming back for good and that is combat. The game's clunky and disappointing combat (mostly due to poor animations) has been the source of constant complaints ever since the beta, but the developers never really did focus on making it substantially better even if it's the single most important activity in the game, whether you are doing PvE content or PvP content. Whenever there is a public announcement of a new DLC and expansion, such as Elsweyr, you'll find plenty of people on Reddit and other gaming forums saying that they like ESO but cannot stand its combat and have stopped playing because of it.

I've always hoped the time would come when they'd address this open issue, but they haven't so far, which is a bit surprising to me since several MMORPGs did something similar over time, improving their combat systems (I'm not talking about balance here, mind you). Meanwhile, I ask you how important this would be for you personally. Hopefully, we can get a more accurate snapshot of how much this issue is truly felt in the community.

I've heard this from MMO players outside the ESO community, such as Kira TV on YouTube. He used the same word, "floaty". Can you please explain what you mean by that? I have yet to find anything of substance on this notion, anyone who has defined what "floaty" means or why they dislike the combat. Unfortunately I don't play other MMOs, so it would be great if you could explain this without referencing another game. If you're using another game as an example, then please explain what it actually is that makes the combat feel different.

I agree with others that animations won't change. I believe ZOS already revised them once, very early in the game's history. I doubt they will ever do it again. I'm really scratching my head though, because I think the combat is one of the strongest points of the game and the reason I've kept playing it for 6 years. Here are two of the points I like:

(1) Motion is stop / start between running and standing still. There is no sense of momentum. When you jump you can still do some things that may affect your trajectory. In other words, the game does not implement too realistic physics in this regard. However this is one of the things I really like in games. I hate games that implement delays to your control inputs in order to achieve more realistic character motion or better physics. This extends to rotating the camera as well. Games that are "jerky", but follow your keyboard and mouse inputs precisely play much better, in my opinion. In other words, if you have an issue with that, then we're simply at odds and no game is going to satisfy us both.

(2) I like animation cancelling, because it's integral to creating responsive combat. Dodge roll, block, bash, bar swap. If you couldn't do these things quickly, outside of the global cooldown, the game would just feel permanently laggy. This is part of what makes the game feel dynamic and fun. It also makes it harder to play, as you need to take full advantage of these mechanics to be competitive in, for example, PvP. It makes for a fast-paced game. That is a good thing. The relatively high skill ceiling is what gives you room to grow as a player and keeps you engaged.

I don't feel nearly as strongly about light / heavy attack weaving. It's not essential to the flow of combat, however it is deeply intertwined with many game mechanics, for example Merciless Resolve. I therefore don't see it going away and I don't have a problem with it.

colossalvoids

kmontywrwb17_ESO wrote: »

It is the biggest thing holding the game back. The world itself is beautiful.

Yeah, have nothing to do with game performance issues and no vision from combat balancing team, just need a wowlike combat and it's a bestseller instantly.

Anyway the most common answers to the "why do you still play" are still including combat system for a reason (but with a remark - when it actually works) alongside tes lore, addictiveness and other aspects. It's not for everyone it seems but moment you change it believe it or not huge portion of players will leave instantly. Gladly devs are at least aware of it so nothing major to be expected in that department for now.

Benzux

kmontywrwb17_ESO

fred4 wrote: »

I've heard this from MMO players outside the ESO community, such as Kira TV on YouTube. He used the same word, "floaty". Can you please explain what you mean by that? I have yet to find anything of substance on this notion, anyone who has defined what "floaty" means or why they dislike the combat. Unfortunately I don't play other MMOs, so it would be great if you could explain this without referencing another game. If you're using another game as an example, then please explain what it actually is that makes the combat feel different.

If you haven't played any other MMO or action game that has snappy, fluid combat and combat systems that reflect changes in skill/power clearly, nothing anyone can say is going to help your understanding. The difference is all feel, and is night and day.

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

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