Stealth in ESO

AefionBloodclaw

So I was playing some Skyrim recently, and this is how I usually play Elder Scrolls games, sneaking around and avoiding enemies, occasionally taking a headshot or using poison with my bow and then using magic when I sometimes get detected. I much more enjoy exploration and adventure than fighting and mindless killing. But I've found in ESO I can't use this playstyle much at all, I can stealth, and max out my detection radiance reduction, and even use poisons, but I hate how as soon as I kill one monster, I'm instantly detected by all other mobs. In Skyrim you can hide and when a bandit dies all the others come looking for you and such, and maybe find you, but maybe not, and its much more thrilling and satisfying freaking out the NPCs and then taking them out one by one. Here the stealth playstyle fails. I don't suppose you will ever be able to play a proper stealth playstyle in this game?

MattT1988

Do the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLC’s. You’ll get what your after there.

AefionBloodclaw

MattT1988 wrote: »

Do the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLC’s. You’ll get what your after there.

Nah, did those and you still can't do proper stealth. You can't even do any wall running or climbing even though a couple of the characters clearly climb over a portcullis etc.

phermitgb

okay, 1, I can't remember any elder scrolls game that allowed wall running. As for climbing, the only "climbing" you could do was specific ladders, or quasi-climbing with spells or magic skill enhancement (like boots with + athletics or some such)

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

and this was in a single player game where there was, arguably, room for advanced AI to work with detection, and alert levels, and searching and giving up on the search after a period of time, etc, etc...

expecting this degree of stealth sophistication in any game is a gamble at best, and in an MMO?...nearly preposterous. I've played a lot of single player games that can't handle stealth well, and I can't think of any MMO that does it particularly

ESO has a passable stealth system. It's relatively straightforward, and reasonably reliable in it's output, at least for the thieves guild content. And while it certainly lacks sophistication in the general world, it still..."works". In the loosest sense.

to get any better stealth, would, I believe, require a far more specific and dedicated engine around stealth mechanics, and to be fair, Elder Scrolls games aren't *strictly* stealth games, so designing them with a super-complex stealth mechanics would probably turn them into something they currently aren't

yes, it'd be nice if stealth was better...I just don't think it's a realistic expectation from an elder scrolls game to begin with, and from an MMO even more so

Brrrofski

What class are you playing?

A nightblade allows you to stealth at will thanks to it's cloak ability

MattT1988

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Do the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLC’s. You’ll get what your after there.

Nah, did those and you still can't do proper stealth. You can't even do any wall running or climbing even though a couple of the characters clearly climb over a portcullis etc.

If your after all that, then your playing the wrong game.

AefionBloodclaw

Brrrofski wrote: »

What class are you playing?

A nightblade allows you to stealth at will thanks to it's cloak ability

I play as a Nightblade so I'm all up to date with the abilities. I am now stealthing through Delves now because I'm sick of fighting mobs (the worst thing about MMORPGs.)

Feanor

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

But that’s the core of it - people want Skyrim-like stealth because they want the feeling of being ridiculously overpowered.

dan958

Feanor wrote: »

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

But that’s the core of it - people want Skyrim-like stealth because they want the feeling of being ridiculously overpowered.

Not everyone. I like sneaking around while a large group of enemies in PVP are trying to track me down. I really enjoy burning siege equipment, hoping that nobody spots me for the few seconds I am visibile, because if they did, i'd be toast.

It just reminsd me of my times back when I first started playing in 2014. I went into PVP extremely underleveled and didnt know what I was doing. I spent majority of the time hiding.

phermitgb

Feanor wrote: »

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

But that’s the core of it - people want Skyrim-like stealth because they want the feeling of being ridiculously overpowered.

see, I know very few people who say - I want a stealth game, and I want the stealth system from Skyrim (or Fallout 3/4, there are so many similarities)
in my experience, there are a very few, select, stealth games that people generally agree are well done. Early "Thief" titles come to mind. Other stealth games either make your stealth experience highly overpowered in order to make it playable at all, or generally make stealth such a mind-bogglingly obnoxious experience that it becomes a highlight of the overall game experience only in a nostalgic way (as in, HAHAH IT SUCKED SO MUCH BUT I BEAT IT ANYWAY HOOORAH!)

yah, I can see the desire to be violently overpowered...for awhile. But after awhile, I like a varying degree of challenge, and most stealth systems just can't handle a middle ground very well. Like the OP, I spent, quite frankly, a painful amount of time stealthing my way through most of skyrim (and easily doubled if not more the actual playtime I spent on it because of it) - but there was a point after which I just...DIDN'T...spend the high end points on stealth, because I was already so overpowered I was stealthing my way through entire dungeons, and having those extra stealth powers would make it even more embarassingly easy

meh...I get your point. I do, I just...can't get on board with it. It's late, I'm tired.

Yuffie91

Its a mmorpg. Being able to hide always would be kind of OP in pvp and dungeons..

AefionBloodclaw

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Its a mmorpg. Being able to hide always would be kind of OP in pvp and dungeons..

well I don't play PvP and the Dungeons are pretty rubbish in this game... just run through and kill stuff, occasionally a good story, but barely any puzzles or traps. Sure they are fun but not really immersive.

MartiniDaniels

Cheating mobs which are alert of you forever after first detection are hilarious, this is stupid mechanic to prevent some cheesing.. but come on, this is pve mobs mostly, who will suffer from these cheese?
Basically in pve combat stealth is useless, this is huge downside of the game.

Kombinator

Feanor wrote: »

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

But that’s the core of it - people want Skyrim-like stealth because they want the feeling of being ridiculously overpowered.

Be nightblade. Same effect. As long as you got magicka you can just run through everything.

I think, that this is a mistake by the way. Either NB shouldn't have that overpowered sneaking, or everyone should get it. Maybe put into Legerdemain.

SpacemanSpiff1

Brrrofski wrote: »

What class are you playing?

A nightblade allows you to stealth at will thanks to it's cloak ability

it wont take you out of combat and you'll be visible after that 2.9ish seconds.

that said, i dont think we need more stealth for pve. most enemies are easily slaughtered/melted in a straight-up fight.

Edit: FFS this is a year old necro.

MattT1988

Kombinator wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

also, 2 - let's be fair - stealth, at least in skyrim, and to a lesser degree oblivion - was a little ridiculously generous at high levels. In fact, wasn't there a perk that specifically forced enemies to lose track of you if you initiated stealth in front of them at the higher tier?

But that’s the core of it - people want Skyrim-like stealth because they want the feeling of being ridiculously overpowered.

Be nightblade. Same effect. As long as you got magicka you can just run through everything.

I think, that this is a mistake by the way. Either NB shouldn't have that overpowered sneaking, or everyone should get it. Maybe put into Legerdemain.

This thread is over a year old. You new here? The mods don’t like it when folks necro threads.

DMuehlhausen

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Do the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLC’s. You’ll get what your after there.

Nah, did those and you still can't do proper stealth. You can't even do any wall running or climbing even though a couple of the characters clearly climb over a portcullis etc.

Keep playing Skyrim then. This isn't the type of game where you can just sneak around through the majority of it.

mague

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

So I was playing some Skyrim recently, and this is how I usually play Elder Scrolls games, sneaking around and avoiding enemies, occasionally taking a headshot or using poison with my bow and then using magic when I sometimes get detected. I much more enjoy exploration and adventure than fighting and mindless killing. But I've found in ESO I can't use this playstyle much at all, I can stealth, and max out my detection radiance reduction, and even use poisons, but I hate how as soon as I kill one monster, I'm instantly detected by all other mobs. In Skyrim you can hide and when a bandit dies all the others come looking for you and such, and maybe find you, but maybe not, and its much more thrilling and satisfying freaking out the NPCs and then taking them out one by one. Here the stealth playstyle fails. I don't suppose you will ever be able to play a proper stealth playstyle in this game?

If you are not a Nightbalde you can craft invis potions. Invisibility stops any NPC aggression and you are able to sneak on.

You can do a lot. Once in while i play an unarmed Khajiit Warden with sneak armor and try my best to go deep into any delve/dungeon/quest area without fighting. On the coldharbour questline i always join the Lamia and never kill an oblivion bosmer.

xXMeowMeowXx

Then play Skyrim and be happy. I mean that in a nice way.

ESO is an mmo and not another game but it’s own beautiful train wreck. That has amazing content and things to keep you engaged for a very long time.

Honestly, it also meets so many different community needs, it really doesn’t get the credit it deserves.

You also need to re-enter stealth once detected and disengage.

You can have near permastealth in PvP. Enough to give another player a booty tickle before blowing all their friends up or gank them a good majority of the time.

SpacemanSpiff1

.

Rowjoh

try stealth in PVP.

Heart pumping adrenaline rush as you stealth around an enemy keep picking them off one by one as they become increasingly more desperate to detect and kill you ! WAHOOO!

nsmurfer

Khajiit + 4pc Darloc Brae+5 pc Night Mother + 3 pc Night Terror. Congratulations, you are now truly invisible.

zaria

mague wrote: »

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

So I was playing some Skyrim recently, and this is how I usually play Elder Scrolls games, sneaking around and avoiding enemies, occasionally taking a headshot or using poison with my bow and then using magic when I sometimes get detected. I much more enjoy exploration and adventure than fighting and mindless killing. But I've found in ESO I can't use this playstyle much at all, I can stealth, and max out my detection radiance reduction, and even use poisons, but I hate how as soon as I kill one monster, I'm instantly detected by all other mobs. In Skyrim you can hide and when a bandit dies all the others come looking for you and such, and maybe find you, but maybe not, and its much more thrilling and satisfying freaking out the NPCs and then taking them out one by one. Here the stealth playstyle fails. I don't suppose you will ever be able to play a proper stealth playstyle in this game?

If you are not a Nightbalde you can craft invis potions. Invisibility stops any NPC aggression and you are able to sneak on.

You can do a lot. Once in while i play an unarmed Khajiit Warden with sneak armor and try my best to go deep into any delve/dungeon/quest area without fighting. On the coldharbour questline i always join the Lamia and never kill an oblivion bosmer.

Funny I just did that quest yesterday, I had issues that Shadowy Disguise did not break contact, even if the enemies was quite some distance back and I was an Khajiit with 5 medium.
Note this could to large degree just be stuck in combat to.
And yes felt pretty stupid then got the tips that I could just use the wisps to become hidden from them

Obviously sided with the Lamia as having them as friendly is pretty unique.

Gilvoth

AefionBloodclaw wrote: »

MattT1988 wrote: »

Do the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood DLC’s. You’ll get what your after there.

Nah, did those and you still can't do proper stealth. You can't even do any wall running or climbing even though a couple of the characters clearly climb over a portcullis etc.

this ^
all truth.

max_only

This necro is bad and you should feel bad :P