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Question For Vivec PC/NA Players

Vapirko
Vapirko
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Why do people not want to play in Shor? I’m genuinely curious. Even during this event with huge overflow, massive lag in Vivec and queues of 100+ people seem incredibly resistant to playing in Shor, and are still running to the most over crowded, lag filled campaign. What about Vivec draws you in over a campaign with less zerging and better performance? Does it have to do with the 50 transmute crystals vs 40 in 30 days? Is it just that there’s never much happening (a vicious cycle if no one takes the initiative), or something else? If players spread out more often it would be better performance in Vivec and better campaign health in Shor and would honestly be a win all the way around. So, what are your reasons?
  • Vapirko
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    For me, as a usually solo player who has to play outside of prime time, Vivec is the only campaign I’ve found that always has something going on at all hours. I’ve tried Shor, and I find the people friendlier, but there just isn’t as much activity when I have time to PVP, and I’m not a consistent enough player to join a PvP guild or regular group.

    I do hear you on that. I also play off hours a lot due to my time zone so Vivec is my guest campaign. But I play Shor whenever something is happening, and I always go in to check as often there’s some good fights to be had even when pop is very low. I do feel that the overall low population throughout most of the day is ZOS’ fault in a big way for decreased performance over the years, lacklustster communication, no plan for PvP etc. But at least for a good portion of the day there’s certainly room to spread out and a lot of people make a deal out of Vivec performance. This event has really highlighted that with a lot of people making complaints about queue and lag in Vivec and yet seem unwilling to move to Shor.
  • Datthaw
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    I think it's more just a vicious cycle.

    My take on pc na shor

    Was some what popular, mainly with higher tier guilds and players, those players play a certain way and seem to have a "code" if you will. These people started to police play styles through just shame and flaming tbh. For example ball destro ballgroups. This discouraged guilds with newer players from participating. Not only did the better players police the campaign, they stopped to care about the campaign I general, which is what the newer players enjoy. On top of that players and guilds began to leave eachother alone because "uneven fights" and would allow the others to potato farm. This makes the new players frustrated because no one cares about the keeps and thier faction allies will let them die. New players leave shor for vivec where they can find a group and have safety in numbers and they guilds and solo players a left not fighting. Eventually many of them follow the prey.

    Obviously all my point of view opinion.
    Edited by Datthaw on January 15, 2019 2:22AM
  • Vapirko
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    Datthaw wrote: »
    I think it's more just a vicious cycle.

    My take on pc na shor

    Was some what popular, mainly with higher tier guilds and players, those players play a certain way and seem to have a "code" if you will. These people started to police play styles through just shame and flaming tbh. For example ball destro ballgroups. This discouraged guilds with newer players from participating. Not only did the better players police the campaign, they stopped to care about the campaign I general, which is what the newer players enjoy. On top of that players and guilds began to leave eachother alone because "uneven fights" and would allow the others to potato farm. This makes the new players frustrated because no one cares about the keeps and thier faction allies will let them die. New players leave shor for vivec where they can find a group and have safety in numbers and they guilds and solo players a left not fighting. Eventually many of them follow the prey.

    Obviously all my point of view opinion.

    You’re very right, there was a big disagreement in how Shor should be. But imo the problem stemmed from the fight always being one sided. The lower pops in Shor means big guilds can’t just come in with a 10-15 person group and start rolling the map. Because a map entirely one color discourages play as much as an empty map (often they are one and the same). It was very difficult to maintain even sides. Long time Shor players got sick of being rolled over every day and the guilds got sick of being told what to do. It needs a combination of work from all involved. Guilds should be very aware of the population around and try to run groups accordingly and players need to realize that sometimes you’re jsut going to get stomped. Unfortunately the toxcicity got out of hand. What Shor needs imo, is more regular casual players, not necessarily hardcore guild groups rn, unless it could be evened out. Those can always come later or run smaller groups for now. Still I would urge people who find Vivec to be too laggy to try Shor. If the queue is full play Shor until your Vivec Queue pops. I say this because Shor has been loads of fun during the event even on off hours and that’s largely due to a steady stream of solo and casual players. Even if it’s at 1 bar and just 10 people are running around on each faction it’s still great.
    Edited by Vapirko on January 15, 2019 2:29AM
  • technohic
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    Event will only last 10 days. Vivec will then be the only full campaign again for another 20. Shor will only last 7 of the 10 days of the event but once the event is over, you will be behind on Vivec and Shor will be flipped one color during the day. Hard to sell people on coming to being pushed to the gates and an Emp group running around.
  • Vapirko
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    technohic wrote: »
    Event will only last 10 days. Vivec will then be the only full campaign again for another 20. Shor will only last 7 of the 10 days of the event but once the event is over, you will be behind on Vivec and Shor will be flipped one color during the day. Hard to sell people on coming to being pushed to the gates and an Emp group running around.

    I know, but we almost revitalized the campaign once or twice. It just wasn’t given enough time to grow before the disagreements killed it again. We all should have just suffered through for a bit and see where it went.
  • ironbob2008
    Shor is a playground, Vivec is a war zone. People gravitate to where the action is and where the most opportunity derives from.
  • Vapirko
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    Shor is a playground, Vivec is a war zone. People gravitate to where the action is and where the most opportunity derives from.

    Hmm, I’m not exactly sure I know what you mean. Personally I find the level of PvP in Shor to be higher in general than on Vivec. As far as action/opportunity goes, there’s be more of it if more people played there. Again, instead of complaining about the horrific lag and queue times, people could just try out/migrate to Shor.
  • Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO
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    During the event it's not so much of an issue to swap. Especially if you play as a guild together somewhere but here are the reasons most would give I'd say:

    1) you are unlikely to catch up to gold placement if you don't earn ap during double AP (depending on if that is important to you)
    2) friends playing there
    3) familiarity (similar people and known enemies)
    4) always full server during & after the event.
    5) campaign score doesn't stop.
    Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on January 15, 2019 11:16AM
    @Solar_Breeze
    NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast Podcast)
    EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad) / Banana Squad
  • Heimpai
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    For me, as a usually solo player who has to play outside of prime time, Vivec is the only campaign I’ve found that always has something going on at all hours. I’ve tried Shor, and I find the people friendlier, but there just isn’t as much activity when I have time to PVP, and I’m not a consistent enough player to join a PvP guild or regular group.

    ^100%. Shor has 1 bars on all factions most the time during my primetime
  • redspecter23
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    I used to play in Shor. As an average player, I found that nearly every group I would run into on AD side was outperforming my small groups by a large margin. Absolute professionals, which is great for them, horrible for me. I've been playing on Sotha Sil lately and the overall average skill level of my opponents is much more balanced compared to my skill level.

    You can only be farmed so many times before you just move on to something else. Yes, you could make an argument that I should just "git gud" but I have no control over the other people in my group and I suspect my opponents on Shor are gitting better faster than I am.

    I wouldn't go back to Shor if you paid me to do it.
  • NBrookus
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    Shor was a fun campaign when there were many small groups. All 3 factions had guilds that would pick up pugs. And yes, those groups tried to police the campaign so that it stayed viable and was interesting for as many players as possible, although they didn't always agree on what those rules should be. But most of the time you could log in and at worst you might have tri-keeps and maybe be down a scroll.

    Then some larger guilds started coming in and steamrolling the map for lols. And selling and swapping emp. Pushing factions to their gates. Emp groups with every scroll and keep buff gate camping right at the ledge. The regulars left. Potential new players logged in, saw that going on, and went elsewhere.

    I've been to Shor recently a few times when Vivec is lagging and I wanted to play in prime time. Getting repeatedly chased by 12 AD so they can Xv1 me wasn't really going to provide an opportunity for a fun pvp session. The map was full of odd colored resources, most of which were farms with bored enemies. I can't imagine new players, solos and casuals going into Shor and deciding to stay under those conditions.

    Shor frankly has nothing to offer right now. There is very little consistent action. Scoring is irrelevant when it is so easily manipulated by whatever happens off-peak, even in Vivec. Larger guilds will easily dominate the map. Smaller guilds won't get the quantity and quality of fights they are looking for. Solo players will get zerged or farmed.

    I'm not a fan of no CP but I'd rather play Sotha as my lag relief campaign than Shor.
    PC NA
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Breton Magicka Templar, Dunmer Magicka DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • pzschrek
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    Edit: TLDNR - I actually do want shor to work, but given the pop swings and how it is, I cant go in by myself and have any fun there. It's a chicken or egg issue..."Its not fun because the factions are rarely balanced, and the reason it's rarely balanced is...because it's rarely balanced"

    Pop is too small, resulting in imbalances. On someplace like vivec, you might get overwhelmed like 20v10 at sej or something. It happens...but it might happen the other way when you take it back in just 10 minutes. Or maybe you'll have a nice 10 v 10 in the fields between, or what have you in time. It's dynamic and changeable, and just because you came up short in one battle doesnt mean you wont have the means to win the next one.

    In shor however, after the first engagement or two, if you get run over by a group you know that this isnt a momentary situation of you being on the back foot in that particular place and time, but that is how the campaign IS and every fight you have will likely be that way for much of the evening.

    Also Too many small man farm groups. You got there and it at least LOOKS like there's a couple farm groups of highly skilled players on every faction who go deep to flip rss and look for good fights 4v1 or 2ing people that trickle up to them.

    All of those things are less fun for me than playing in lag. Especially when alone.

    The few times I've been with groups in there, usually it's too much and we can just run over everything, which also isn't very fun. Plus even if there is a big group, you have to carefully curate the campaign because if you wipe them once or at most twice they leave and the camp is dead. I remember during the Sheriff days when I was in TM on AD, DC was working on dethroning red. We wanted the campaign to stay alive, and knew all the reds logged the moment they lost emp. So we ran in. slaughtered all the blues, then ran out leaving the reds to flip the keep. Boy was the sheriff mad (he got mad about everything though), and we were just like "we want to keep PVP in shor alive tonight."

    Edited by pzschrek on January 18, 2019 5:41PM
    “The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
  • NBrookus
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    The Sheriff was one of those people whom there were disagreements on how to keep the campaign healthy. Which was expected since he often disagreed with himself by the next day. But he did do his part to try and hold down the blue side of the map and was certainly better for the campaign's health than the current situation.

    Edited by NBrookus on January 19, 2019 1:04AM
    PC NA
    Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Breton Magicka Templar, Dunmer Magicka DK, Bosmer Stamina NB, Nord Stamina Warden, Redguard Stamina Necro
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka NB, Breton Magicka Sorcerer, Orc Stamina Warden
    Dunmer Magicka DK, Argonian Magicka Templar, Altmer Magicka Sorcerer
  • pzschrek
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    Yeah. I liked him. Over zealous at times and had a bent toward over-moralizing everything in a video game, but a generally decent person. He was on my friends list.
    Edited by pzschrek on January 18, 2019 7:36PM
    “The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
  • VaranisArano
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    Unrfotunately, outside of Midyear Mayhem, there's very little competition in Shor for a large organized raid that's used to the numbers and fights of Vivec. Every time my raid popped over to Shor for a couple nights, we'd take the map without a lot of solid opposition. No offense to the regulars of Shor - they just arent used to dealing with a Vivec raid. That wasnt fun for us, probably wasnt fun for them, and so we always wound up back in Vivec where it was laggy but at least we reliably had competition.

    During Midyear Mayhem, I play Shor. Vivec starts lagging for me at 10 in the morning, so no way would I manage primetine play.
  • MajBludd
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    Doesnt seem like anybody plays to the objectives. Just ress farm groups.
  • mayasunrising
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    I actually tried both Shor and Vivec early on, but I settled on Vivec primarily because I love my guild and our Viv is our home campaign. I also am able to game off and on throughout the day so I'm able to get on and solo when pop is lower, and then group up during prime time when pop is high. I'm also a love of large scale battles, and most of the times Shor just doesn't have the pop for that.

    I will say this tho; most of the times when I guest shor while waiting in the Vivec queue, I do have an enjoyable time and your players are much kinder.
    "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." Anaïs Nin

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  • twitch_zero
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    No-one on during ocx hours
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