Up dungeons to 5-6 man as a option

Unit117

It’s no surprise that dps are the popular role. There should be options for 5-6 man dungeons that increases the health of everything substantially. That way people don’t have to sit in queue for 3 hours to find a dungeon that might be terrible.
This can also help alleviate some of the problem of people queuing for roles they shouldn’t be.

idk

The simple solution has been the one we have had all along.

Every character can tank and dps or heal and dps. For 4 man dungeons it just takes swapping gear and skills to turn that DPS into a tank or healer.

There is another solution and that is forming your group to start with. Either from guild (which is usually best) or from zone. There is no wait (other than the GF issue) when you form your group to start with. It is also pretty easy to do.

I know both of those ideas work extremely well and efficiently because I use both all the time. I have better things to do than wait around for a queue to pop, plus it is fast and easy this way.

Vildebill

So practically it's gonna be like before for those who don't use the finder (1 tank and 5 DDs, and bosses with more health), and for those who use the finder (which mostly is DDs with 5k DPS) it's gonna be even slower than now.

Doesn't sound that great to me

Facefister

I would rather have a new mode where I can get the chance to farm golden jewelry instead of hoping for the RNG at the Golden.

profundidob16_ESO

I think this is a really good idea and at the very least worth a shot.

-Implementation should be easy and require few effort since it would simply be another queue with 2 more people and tuned to it.

-Good players can much easier cover for bad players. in 4-man dungeons 1 bad dps can kill 50% of group dmge but in a 6-man dungeon only 25%. Much easier to correct

-Less tank shortage in random group finder groups (but their importance will stay the same)

-Healers will become more important and necessary. With 4 people able to take dmge at any point the presence of a healer is more justified and desired but the load of dmge can also be more spread. 1 good dps player might equip mighty chudan on the spot and a taunt to help release pressure for example

Ofcourse this assumes that during the (re)tuning of the 6-man dungeon the devs up the dmge of mobs enough in order to ensure that healers have a solid place. In other words mob damage should be tuned so that with a dedicated healer in 5th group slot total group dps will be alot higher than when adding a 5th dps instead of healer (guaranteed multiple deaths through the dungeon).

Unit117

Vildebill wrote: »

So practically it's gonna be like before for those who don't use the finder (1 tank and 5 DDs, and bosses with more health), and for those who use the finder (which mostly is DDs with 5k DPS) it's gonna be even slower than now.

Doesn't sound that great to me

You can still do it normally. Keyword was option. This means you are more likely to have a healer whether you use it or not. It’s a good thing

Merlin13KAGL

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

Mettaricana

Make 5-6 man dungeonsnhave a chance to drop the shoulder too kiss my butt rng

FrancisCrawford

When LOTRO introduced content that scaled for 1/2/3/6/12 players, namely skirmishes, that worked great.

That said, it was new content, without any mechanics that assumed a specific number of participants. E.g., they didn't have anything I recall in the way of disabling one participant, a mechanism that ZoS loves and which could add difficulty to scaling.

Ackwalan

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

It will shorten wait time. For some.

Let's say there are 15 people using random dungeon finder. 2 tanks, 3 healers and 10 dps. With 4man groups, 2 groups fill up leaving 1 healer and 6 dps waiting in queue. With 6man groups, you are left with 1 healer and 2 dps waiting in queue. Now this won't help healers, but it would help dps.

profundidob16_ESO

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

Thalidar

Here's a simple fix. Don't play a dps. My tank averages about 10 seconds. Healers normally within 1 minute. If you choose dps that's the price.

However if you don't want to do this, think a bit more as to what you're proposing.

The faster it is for group finder for dps, the less tanks and healers you'll have in game. So unless you remove the need to have them altogether you'll have just as long a wait time, if not longer as you're further reducing how many of them in game you have. A lot of healers and tanks play them simply because of how quick the queue is, so by speeding up the dps they'll just abandon these tougher roles. Do you honestly think ESO will go down that way. I just don't see it.

At present my main healer can cover 2 poor dps, but more players doesn't mean better quality. I doubt he can cover 4 poorly played dps and yes it will happen.

eliisra

I'm totally biased, since I always preferred 5-man party in mmos. Think it's more fun with more people, so I'm all for bigger dungeon groups.

The more dps you can squeeze in per available tank, the shorter the dungeon queue logically speaking. But not sure the effect will be very dramatic though. You'd still have to wait forever to get a tank if using the queue.

Loads of tanks avoid the queue altogether, because dislike tanking for 5-10k dps players and rude people, for obvious reasons(like it's frustrating). If you join a team that's made outside the queue, you normally get better dps, friendlier atmosphere and therefor smoother runs.

If I'm tanking and wanna get daily VR done, I can easily find a decent group from zone in a matter of minutes. The chance of getting into a decent group if I just queue up, is noticeably lower.

Merlin13KAGL

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

The math is dead on, because the 4man queue and the 6 man queue would be separated. There wouldn't be queue options for both at once, just as there are no longer options for multiple roles at once.

You're making presumptions about the required group makeup and the availability of certain roles, assuming 1 out of every 8 people is a tank, and 2 out of every 8 people are healers. You're also assuming that people will legitimately follow those roles, vs 1 tank/5 DPS, or simply 6 DPS, or be equally capable in those roles. The checkboxes don't matter. The actual practiced role does.

Separating the queues means you have just as many slots to fill with half as many people to fill them, assuming the same number of people as there are right now.

People after specific dungeons will tend to run with premade's. It's more reliable for a number of reasons. People after randoms for XP will go with the quickest return.

Tanks don't have issue with queues. Healers don't have issue with queues. 4 man will continue to be faster, especially if content were adjusted simply by health increases. There is no benefit for tanks or healers queuing a 6 man clear, and most won't accordingly.

The only role with an issue here is DPS, and even then, there are no three hour queues. The answer, same as it's always been. Be available for another role, or queue and do something else until it pops.

Unit117

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

The math is dead on, because the 4man queue and the 6 man queue would be separated. There wouldn't be queue options for both at once, just as there are no longer options for multiple roles at once.

You're making presumptions about the required group makeup and the availability of certain roles, assuming 1 out of every 8 people is a tank, and 2 out of every 8 people are healers. You're also assuming that people will legitimately follow those roles, vs 1 tank/5 DPS, or simply 6 DPS, or be equally capable in those roles. The checkboxes don't matter. The actual practiced role does.

Separating the queues means you have just as many slots to fill with half as many people to fill them, assuming the same number of people as there are right now.

People after specific dungeons will tend to run with premade's. It's more reliable for a number of reasons. People after randoms for XP will go with the quickest return.

Tanks don't have issue with queues. Healers don't have issue with queues. 4 man will continue to be faster, especially if content were adjusted simply by health increases. There is no benefit for tanks or healers queuing a 6 man clear, and most won't accordingly.

The only role with an issue here is DPS, and even then, there are no three hour queues. The answer, same as it's always been. Be available for another role, or queue and do something else until it pops.

I got to disagree with you. Current queue is always waiting for tanks or healers.

You get quick queue times If you are a tank or healer but if you are dps. You may be waiting behind 100 other people. On dps. Ive consistently has to wait hours just to get into a dungeon. By adding two more slots meant for dps. You are emptying out that backed up queue of dps players twice as fast.

Your math is assuming we 1-2-1 ratio of tanks-dps-healers when we don’t. The number of dps in this game far out populate tank and healers combined.

Even in trials it’s easy to fill out your dps but it can be more troublesome to find your tanks or healers. This cuts what may be a hour wait for dps. To 30 mins. There’s so many dps in this game. Tanks and healers would hardly be affected by this.

Unit117

Thalidar wrote: »

Here's a simple fix. Don't play a dps. My tank averages about 10 seconds. Healers normally within 1 minute. If you choose dps that's the price.

However if you don't want to do this, think a bit more as to what you're proposing.

The faster it is for group finder for dps, the less tanks and healers you'll have in game. So unless you remove the need to have them altogether you'll have just as long a wait time, if not longer as you're further reducing how many of them in game you have. A lot of healers and tanks play them simply because of how quick the queue is, so by speeding up the dps they'll just abandon these tougher roles. Do you honestly think ESO will go down that way. I just don't see it.

At present my main healer can cover 2 poor dps, but more players doesn't mean better quality. I doubt he can cover 4 poorly played dps and yes it will happen.

My main characters are all tanks. And I rarely play dps. But when I do it’s terrible. I dont enjoy waiting hours to get into one dungeon

Agenericname

Unit117 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

The math is dead on, because the 4man queue and the 6 man queue would be separated. There wouldn't be queue options for both at once, just as there are no longer options for multiple roles at once.

You're making presumptions about the required group makeup and the availability of certain roles, assuming 1 out of every 8 people is a tank, and 2 out of every 8 people are healers. You're also assuming that people will legitimately follow those roles, vs 1 tank/5 DPS, or simply 6 DPS, or be equally capable in those roles. The checkboxes don't matter. The actual practiced role does.

Separating the queues means you have just as many slots to fill with half as many people to fill them, assuming the same number of people as there are right now.

People after specific dungeons will tend to run with premade's. It's more reliable for a number of reasons. People after randoms for XP will go with the quickest return.

Tanks don't have issue with queues. Healers don't have issue with queues. 4 man will continue to be faster, especially if content were adjusted simply by health increases. There is no benefit for tanks or healers queuing a 6 man clear, and most won't accordingly.

The only role with an issue here is DPS, and even then, there are no three hour queues. The answer, same as it's always been. Be available for another role, or queue and do something else until it pops.

I got to disagree with you. Current queue is always waiting for tanks or healers.

You get quick queue times If you are a tank or healer but if you are dps. You may be waiting behind 100 other people. On dps. Ive consistently has to wait hours just to get into a dungeon. By adding two more slots meant for dps. You are emptying out that backed up queue of dps players twice as fast.

Your math is assuming we 1-2-1 ratio of tanks-dps-healers when we don’t. The number of dps in this game far out populate tank and healers combined.

Even in trials it’s easy to fill out your dps but it can be more troublesome to find your tanks or healers. This cuts what may be a hour wait for dps. To 30 mins. There’s so many dps in this game. Tanks and healers would hardly be affected by this.

I wouldn't be against a different configuration per se, but I think there is more to story than just a skewed ratio.

When I queue as a DD I usually queue with one other player. The queue times are nearly instant. It's only when I queue alone that my queue times exceed 3 minutes. I'm guessing that it treats a group differently than a solo player possibly placing them faster since it's more efficient to add 2 + 2 than it is 1 + 1 + 1 + 1.

I'd wager that the number of tanks and healers in the game is more proportionate. The number in the RDF is not.

Kidgangster101

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

I think this is a really good idea and at the very least worth a shot.

-Implementation should be easy and require few effort since it would simply be another queue with 2 more people and tuned to it.

-Good players can much easier cover for bad players. in 4-man dungeons 1 bad dps can kill 50% of group dmge but in a 6-man dungeon only 25%. Much easier to correct

-Less tank shortage in random group finder groups (but their importance will stay the same)

-Healers will become more important and necessary. With 4 people able to take dmge at any point the presence of a healer is more justified and desired but the load of dmge can also be more spread. 1 good dps player might equip mighty chudan on the spot and a taunt to help release pressure for example

So you want the people that que as tank and healer to suffer because DPS won't learn their job correctly or even consider switching? Lol

What happens when 1 out of the 4 DPS is good or what happens when all 4 are bad? It just doesn't make sense to me lol.

Or what if you have a fake tank or healer because they didn't like the DPS que still? Now you have 5 people waiting in a dungeon because of that one person?

I can tell you now that I refuse to random question as my tank or my healer because the attitude people have towards support roles in this game just saying.

josiahva

Unit117 wrote: »

It’s no surprise that dps are the popular role. There should be options for 5-6 man dungeons that increases the health of everything substantially. That way people don’t have to sit in queue for 3 hours to find a dungeon that might be terrible.
This can also help alleviate some of the problem of people queuing for roles they shouldn’t be.

Umm, dungeons(including DLC dungeons) are easy enough as it is...upping to 6 people would make the content completely irrelevant, unless the difficulty scaled from 4-6 players with increased mob and boss numbers and health.

That being said, a better solution is to make 6 player dungeons in the future that is already scaled for more people.

Merlin13KAGL

Unit117 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Logic is flawed on many levels. Requiring 50% more people won't shorten the queue because it will take longer to fill groups due to the requirement.

8 people now can make two groups. 8 people your way will leave 4 empty slots waiting in the queue, vs 3 max the current way. You also have even less people in the queue, because a fill from one queue automatically reduced the total in the opposing queue. You'll end up with 3 people waiting for one fill alongside 5 people waiting for one fill ~ 8 people going absolutely nowhere.

This also doesn't improve odds of valid heals, or tank. Those will both be picked up by DPS as side roles - a couple Restro back bars, a Matriarch here or there, some Vigor's thrown in for good measure.

I'd dare say the tank role will probably even get skipped, just a slightly tankier DPS or two trading the boss back and forth while the other 4 or 5 DPS melt everything.

This also requires two sets of balancing, which they'll never get right. There's a much wider spread in player ability with 2 additional players thrown in. Beyond that, most people queue for the daily, and little else, meaning they're going to go for the simplest, fastest option, same as they do now - a 4 man normal random.

Though I'm guessing it's hyperbole, If you're really in queue 3 hours, you need to requeue, because it's bugged, or you're trying to get dungeon queues during events where everyone is doing something else (current event, case in point.)

Cranking up health does not crank up difficulty on its own. It's simply a filler, same as long maps or waves of trash spawns.

I'd rather see them rework the dungeons to actually require mechanics. After that, I'd see them add the version II's, and perhaps even III's to the existing options.

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

The math is dead on, because the 4man queue and the 6 man queue would be separated. There wouldn't be queue options for both at once, just as there are no longer options for multiple roles at once.

You're making presumptions about the required group makeup and the availability of certain roles, assuming 1 out of every 8 people is a tank, and 2 out of every 8 people are healers. You're also assuming that people will legitimately follow those roles, vs 1 tank/5 DPS, or simply 6 DPS, or be equally capable in those roles. The checkboxes don't matter. The actual practiced role does.

Separating the queues means you have just as many slots to fill with half as many people to fill them, assuming the same number of people as there are right now.

People after specific dungeons will tend to run with premade's. It's more reliable for a number of reasons. People after randoms for XP will go with the quickest return.

Tanks don't have issue with queues. Healers don't have issue with queues. 4 man will continue to be faster, especially if content were adjusted simply by health increases. There is no benefit for tanks or healers queuing a 6 man clear, and most won't accordingly.

The only role with an issue here is DPS, and even then, there are no three hour queues. The answer, same as it's always been. Be available for another role, or queue and do something else until it pops.

I got to disagree with you. Current queue is always waiting for tanks or healers.

Which is exactly why I state

Tanks don't have issue with queues. Healers don't have issue with queues.

Premade, assist with the role imbalance (not by expecting the content to change to accommodate), or queue and do something else while you wait.

It's still not going to be remotely close to a three hour consecutive queue, even if you're tagging a specific dungeon.

Show me a solo screenshot, from Live, showing these excessive queue times and I'll believe it. Until then, it's going to be longer for DPS, but it's not going to be half as unbearable as the OP makes it sound.

josiahva

People always whining about group finder and fake-roles. The solution is simple...dont use it, run a pre-made for all dungeons(random and otherwise) there is NO EXCUSE for not being able to find a group with access to THOUSANDS of players between your 100 person friends list and 5 guilds. I myself dont mind running pugs...but I know what I am getting into when I do, and so should everyone else at this point. If it bothers you that much, dont pug.

Silver_Strider

No idea is flawless and while the OP's intentions are fine, the end result more than likely wouldn't be.

Most good players tend to avoid the group finder altogether because of whatever reason so separating the queue between a 4 man or 6 man wouldn't solve anything since those situations would still but unlike in a 4 man where 1 good DPS can make up for the other bad DPS, 1 good DPS can't cover for 3 bad DPS.

This hypothetical system would be more in favor of premade groups, who don't even use the group finder anyways, so the end result in relation to the group finder would remain the same.

idk

Silver_Strider wrote: »

No idea is flawless and while the OP's intentions are fine, the end result more than likely wouldn't be.

Most good players tend to avoid the group finder altogether because of whatever reason so separating the queue between a 4 man or 6 man wouldn't solve anything since those situations would still but unlike in a 4 man where 1 good DPS can make up for the other bad DPS, 1 good DPS can't cover for 3 bad DPS.

This hypothetical system would be more in favor of premade groups, who don't even use the group finder anyways, so the end result in relation to the group finder would remain the same.

You are correct that skilled players get into premades it’s just to easy to form a group. Then they just queue up so GF places them in the dungeon.

This is also why tanks avoid the GF as they are left with questionable dps so they tend to avoid random groups altogether.

The bigger issue is Zos would have to increase the difficulty of the dungeons to match the party size. This would likely magnify the issues faced when a group has lower dps pushing even more tanks to only queue with premades groups.

And yes, the difficulty would have to be increased due to keep the achievements worthy to get.

Soleya

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

your math is flawed. You forget that in the current stats of an average 8-man group waiting in queue there are only 1 tank (not 2 !!!), 2healers and 5 dps. Out of that can be formed only a single 4-man group, not 2 groups. This means 1 healer and 3 dps stay in queue waiting for a tank while half of that waiting group could have joined in a 6-man group.

6-man groups will help solve this dps abundance problem for sure

Based on my experience your math is flawed.

Out of 8, there is 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 dps and 3 fake tanks.

Stebarnz

If you add people then the potatoes get carried and can hide in the group!! I want 2 man content where there is no room to hide or be carried!
Like a 2 man VMA kinda thing or option to run any content scaled to either 1/2/3/4/5 etc people like the other bro said, to keep everyone happy.

El_Borracho

I couldn't imagine the fury from the healers when these invariably would turn into 1 tank + 5 DPS runs.

Its fine as a 4 man run. And I'm saying this as a DPS that waits in these PUG queues, too.

LeagueTroll

Stebarnz wrote: »

If you add people then the potatoes get carried and can hide in the group!! I want 2 man content where there is no room to hide or be carried!
Like a 2 man VMA kinda thing or option to run any content scaled to either 1/2/3/4/5 etc people like the other bro said, to keep everyone happy.

I don’t mind potatoes getting carried. As long as it’s not me doing the carry. The correct solution is obv remove que cool down. So i can leave potatoes, prolly grab any capable player in the group and que again. Tank que is instant anyways. This can cycle through the dps que way faster.

Stebarnz

LeagueTroll wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

If you add people then the potatoes get carried and can hide in the group!! I want 2 man content where there is no room to hide or be carried!
Like a 2 man VMA kinda thing or option to run any content scaled to either 1/2/3/4/5 etc people like the other bro said, to keep everyone happy.

I don’t mind potatoes getting carried. As long as it’s not me doing the carry. The correct solution is obv remove que cool down. So i can leave potatoes, prolly grab any capable player in the group and que again. Tank que is instant anyways. This can cycle through the dps que way faster.

I hear ya, after 4 years of carrying my patience is thin now, bit of research takes 10 mins but nooooo they are happy with 5k dps.
Just remove queue and make it scale so I can do some 1 and 2 man content. 2 man vma that is 4 x as hard, or some dungeon or thing that has actual challenging content with mechs that are not just 1 shot lazy ass.

Edziu

idk wrote: »

The simple solution has been the one we have had all along.

Every character can tank and dps or heal and dps. For 4 man dungeons it just takes swapping gear and skills to turn that DPS into a tank or healer.

There is another solution and that is forming your group to start with. Either from guild (which is usually best) or from zone. There is no wait (other than the GF issue) when you form your group to start with. It is also pretty easy to do.

I know both of those ideas work extremely well and efficiently because I use both all the time. I have better things to do than wait around for a queue to pop, plus it is fast and easy this way.

yes every character can tank, dps or heal but this simple change isnt viable more

yes for basic content it is enough to jsut swap gear and skills

but for content like trials or dlc dungs it is needed to also change your stats if no need to change morphs

as dps od you will invest to nothing into healt and max as you can into your miant stat to dps
and here I on my mainly dps char whne I want to switch to tank I have only 30k health with ebon and support for dps set and max at 40k health with plagu doctor instaad of set to support dps (as stamplar)

40k seems pretty fine...but oh well, we know not every class is great at some roles than other; like dk is the best for tanking and templar is probably on of worst/hardest to do tank class missing % based heal of you hp and have only shield for this
and especailly stamplar have more struggle for selfhealing in it

but going back to switching setup for other role with my point....40k as for templar tank is realy low as he base more on how big shield he will get from % of max health...so to be really efficient and not struggle I should go and waste gold for respec atleast atributes and some cp for jsut switch regen from stam to more mag to be able to tank harder content

so no, switching role into other role for harder content unfortunately is not that simply
ofc it is simple for basic content...but this content in overall is very easy for old players and if I want to go for this harder endgame and I want to switch role for single run I would need to change almost entiraly all on my current setup to just find group faster for this content and to be able to do this

tl;dr
for basic content yes..it just takes swap gear and skills to go on different role on your character but only for easy basic content, but if we go for harder endgame we need to change almost entirely our build to be even able done this content on different role on our char than always

SiAScORCH

Unit117 wrote: »

It’s no surprise that dps are the popular role. There should be options for 5-6 man dungeons that increases the health of everything substantially. That way people don’t have to sit in queue for 3 hours to find a dungeon that might be terrible.
This can also help alleviate some of the problem of people queuing for roles they shouldn’t be.

Worst idea ever.

If you can't complete on vet, then do it on normal. If people queue up for wrong role then kick. The truth is there is only about 2 non dlc dungeons where a tank is actually needed for hard mode(not required, but needed). I'm not referring to DLC.

BC2, if you want to do hard mode, tank is needed unless you wan't to make the process take 3-4x as long.
CoH2, same as above.

In 2016 before the dps climb to where it is now, back when 20-25 was really good we would run 3 dps and heals. I never used a tank on CoA2. I come back to the game and people are so tank dependent it's a shame.

idk

Edziu wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The simple solution has been the one we have had all along.

Every character can tank and dps or heal and dps. For 4 man dungeons it just takes swapping gear and skills to turn that DPS into a tank or healer.

There is another solution and that is forming your group to start with. Either from guild (which is usually best) or from zone. There is no wait (other than the GF issue) when you form your group to start with. It is also pretty easy to do.

I know both of those ideas work extremely well and efficiently because I use both all the time. I have better things to do than wait around for a queue to pop, plus it is fast and easy this way.

yes every character can tank, dps or heal but this simple change isnt viable more

yes for basic content it is enough to jsut swap gear and skills

but for content like trials or dlc dungs it is needed to also change your stats if no need to change morphs

as dps od you will invest to nothing into healt and max as you can into your miant stat to dps
and here I on my mainly dps char whne I want to switch to tank I have only 30k health with ebon and support for dps set and max at 40k health with plagu doctor instaad of set to support dps (as stamplar)

40k seems pretty fine...but oh well, we know not every class is great at some roles than other; like dk is the best for tanking and templar is probably on of worst/hardest to do tank class missing % based heal of you hp and have only shield for this
and especailly stamplar have more struggle for selfhealing in it

but going back to switching setup for other role with my point....40k as for templar tank is realy low as he base more on how big shield he will get from % of max health...so to be really efficient and not struggle I should go and waste gold for respec atleast atributes and some cp for jsut switch regen from stam to more mag to be able to tank harder content

so no, switching role into other role for harder content unfortunately is not that simply
ofc it is simple for basic content...but this content in overall is very easy for old players and if I want to go for this harder endgame and I want to switch role for single run I would need to change almost entiraly all on my current setup to just find group faster for this content and to be able to do this

tl;dr
for basic content yes..it just takes swap gear and skills to go on different role on your character but only for easy basic content, but if we go for harder endgame we need to change almost entirely our build to be even able done this content on different role on our char than always

You do not make much sense.

First of all, this thread is clearly not about trials so why even mention them. Trials are already 2/3 dps roles.

Second, what I said is totally viable. I have tanked vet dungeons on a character without changing CP or attributes from their normal DPS setting. I have done it a number of times, including when I was not with people I regularly run with.

So if you mean basic content being normal and vet dungeons then yes, what I said is totally viable.