Pet Sorc Problems (From a Vet Player)

codestripper

So, let me start off by saying that I've been playing the pet sorc class variation for years. My opinion on what the class currently is does not align with what It should be and let me explain why I think this way.

To choose to play pet sorc, is to choose to give up damage for survivability.

While most classes can consistently get 50-60k dps from players at the highest level, pet sorc can get around 40-48k depending on the player, rotation, and what they were willing to give up to squeeze out slightly more damage (from all parses that I have seen). This amount of damage is by no means weak, but it is certainly not competitive. That being said, why do people choose to go petsorc (pre-murkmire)? Because you had insane suvivability aspects. If you built correctly you could even make due with hardened ward + twilight matriarch as your only sources of survivability and still be just fine. This was due to the common method of magicka stacking. Magicka stacking allows us to not only maximize pet DPS, but also bolster our overall survivability with more shields (which would in turn keep our pets alive too). We were by no means the "meta", but we at least had a solid trade-off for our 10k~ loss in dps comparatively.

These benefits however were forfeited at the release of murkmire. Our main reason for choosing pet sorc (the shield) was now gone. If we're lucky we can get it to around 10k with a warden health buff, other than that it's a shadow of its former self. Now, don't get me wrong, I still play the pet sorc and I have still achieved scores of 580k+ in vMA since the patch with him. But the problem lies in comparing it to other classes. Lets compare survivability to it's other variant, the pure sorc:

Pet sorc new survivability skills: power/crit surge, twilight matriarch, hardened ward
Pure sorc survivability skills: power/crit surge, empowered ward/harness magicka

At first glance you'd think with the addition of the twilight matriarch you would have more healing overall. This however is not the case unless you also spec your build into crit (mother's sorrow & thief mundus). This will result in around 3k lower overall dps compared to (infallible aether / lover) and the loss of a group utility set. This is due to critical rating and damage being much more heavily boosted by a pure sorc's strengths than a pet sorc, leaving a twlight matriarch (group off-healing) as the only benefit of going pet sorc for survivability.

In terms of damage, again we lose at a 10k~ loss (13k~ for more survivability) compared to our pure sorc brothers. Overall this means that the pure sorc has made the pet sorc obsolete in most areas, especially due to most pet sorcs choosing to use the twilight tormentor for some reason (eliminating the group utility from the class right off the bat).

Speaking of group utility.

There are 3 things a pet sorc can bring to a group for extra utility, another one of the main reason for choosing this class.
1. Infallible Aether - Extra 8% damage on a target from all incoming sources (usable thanks to our heavy attack rotation)
- No longer viable if you want to keep your survivability at max (see above)
- Must be used in a heavy attack rotation (to get higher numbers people are now switching to light attack rotations to achieve 45-48k~ dps)

2. Twilgiht Familiar - Provides insane group off-healing and can really come in handy to save group wipes
- Being switched out for Twilight Tormentor to try to squeeze out what tiny amounts of extra damage it actually gives to try to be competitive with other classes
- Dies to things still in all content, yes even group PvE content (see below)

3. Off Balance - Due to lightning staff usage, helps increase the DPS of anyone who uses the off-balance passive in CP
- Still useful, but not as much as people have started to navigate away from that passive in favor of more useful ones

The pets make everyone mad!

1. They make me mad because they don't stay alive anymore in vMA (forget about healing yourself with the twilight during round 4 boss phase)
2. They make the group mad because the volatile familiar stuns adds so the tank can't pull them and the twilight matriarch stands in people's faces in trials
3. They make me mad even more because we can't control them, hell we can't even set any positioning or combat options for them! Only "Y" for telling them to attack or come back and you have to spam it to get it to work.
4. They make trial groups mad because pet fixes to trial mechanics are not widely known and left a really bad taste in a lot of people's mouths.

Here's some ideas, none of them are perfect, I don't design video game mechanics for a living
1. Why not give us a pet bar like other MMO's? This would address a lot of the pet problems, maybe even a toggle to turn on and off the pet stun in different kinds of content but keep the pulse
2. Give us our shield back, it makes playing the class less enjoyable for me overall and keeps our pets alive, literally nothing wrong with it besides whiners in PvP (where the shields got stronger if anything)
3. Make the pets consistently invincible in all content or consistently not invincible. You're confusing way too many people with this, when new players see their pets die in PvE overland, they expect that's how they work. They go into dungeons, they assume they need to watch their health and shield spam them though mechanics. Then they learn they don't die in dungeons, go into vMA only to have them die again! It's extremely irritating having to explain it over and over again to new players.
4. If you're not going to help our survivability, buff the pets and give us more damage, it's as simple as that.

Conclusion

Pet sorcs (while still able to complete all content) can not do it competitively or without backlash from group members in PUGs. This is unacceptable at this point. You made us give up a playstyle for no reason and I don't understand why. I will continue to play, improve, and adapt my pet sorc to new changes, but I really hope this reaches the eyes of the community. A lot of you will not care, maybe will want to see a video of me explaining each thing to understand more, might even just be toxic for the sake of it, but I just wanted to get this out there so the community knows how veteran pet sorc players feel like they're being treated.

TL;DR - Pet sorcs are so 2000 and late.

Also, here's a parse because I know how some of you people are without one:

pelle412

I like my pet sorc as well, but for reasons you've stated, I don't play it that much. Compared to playing magblade or magplar, the sorc skill animations and weaving feels a bit clunky too (not sure why though). I did a vAA run last summer with 12 dual pet sorcs with pet proc set gear (like maw of infernal) just to see how crazy it would get. Lots of fun and worked just fine.

iCaliban

Pet sorc needs a dps buff. Im the same as you, havent seen a parse in the 50k range. My personal best is 46k, which is still well behind mag blade/non pet builds. And very far behind stamina melee builds.

The change to minor prophecy is also painful because pet sorcs have no reliable way to proc it. (if double pet build)

Ill disagree about vma. Just went flawless with mine 2 days ago.

Ill also disagree in general about how hard it is to survive. Surge is a no brainer and with any sort of decent crit, that + matriarch is more than enough outside vet trials. In vet trials, well, you rely on your healer like everyone else.

codestripper

iCaliban wrote: »

Pet sorc needs a dps buff. Im the same as you, havent seen a parse in the 50k range. My personal best is 46k, which is still well behind mag blade/non pet builds. And very far behind stamina melee builds.

The change to minor prophecy is also painful because pet sorcs have no reliable way to proc it. (if double pet build)

Ill disagree about vma. Just went flawless with mine 2 days ago.

That's not disagreeing. You can only really get above the 580k mark with a flawless. I was just saying it was annoying that they keep dying. Don't tell me your flappy bird doesn't die to the 4th round boss, or to the 5th round boss when she dies and the ice respawns, because I know both of those are true

Edit: Jut saw your edits, the point is more of, we sacrificed damage for the survivability we had. I never even had to use surge to keep alive before this update. And for me that made up for the lack of damage. The fact that our survivability is now on the level of pure sorcs with nothing to compensate with more of where I was getting at.

SirAndy

That pretty much sums it up. I still play my PetSorc for solo PvE where the i have to rely on my own survivability.
I run the Clannfear instead of the Matriarch because it still has a soft taunt and i get a cheap 10k burst heal from it.

As far as group content, i've pugged a few trials and dungeons with it during the last two events and it does OK, but it's not a character i would bring for a leaderboard run.

I do however use it for vMA and to solo vet group dungeons ...

codestripper

SirAndy wrote: »

That pretty much sums it up. I still play my PetSorc for solo PvE where the i have to rely on my own survivability.
I run the Clannfear instead of the Matriarch because it still has a soft taunt and i get a cheap 10k burst heal from it.

As far as group content, i've pugged a few trials and dungeons with it during the last two events and it does OK, but it's not a character i would bring for a leaderboard run.

I do however use it for vMA and to solo vet group dungeons ...

The clanfear hasn't provided any sort of taunt for ages. Also that would mean you're not using the scamp which is your highest source of damage as a pet sorc. Not to mention that the matriarch actually heals the same if not more and does it to 2 targets.

The reason the clanfear is used is because it scales off of your max health whereas the twilight scales from your max magicka. I'd also like to point out that all pets actually get a "soft taunt". As in like, they follow the aggression system, if you attack first they taunt to you until either hard taunted or more damage is outweighed at the next soft taunt check.

I recommend trying it out, you don't have to do it that way if it doesn't work for you, but you'll see more damage out of your build for sure. Not trying to kill your playstyle my friend

SirAndy

codestripper wrote: »

The clanfear hasn't provided any soft of taunt for ages.

Shhh, it still does ...

iCaliban

codestripper wrote: »

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iCaliban wrote: »

Pet sorc needs a dps buff. Im the same as you, havent seen a parse in the 50k range. My personal best is 46k, which is still well behind mag blade/non pet builds. And very far behind stamina melee builds.

The change to minor prophecy is also painful because pet sorcs have no reliable way to proc it. (if double pet build)

Ill disagree about vma. Just went flawless with mine 2 days ago.

That's not disagreeing. You can only really get above the 580k mark with a flawless. I was just saying it was annoying that they keep dying. Don't tell me your flappy bird doesn't die to the 4th round boss, or to the 5th round boss when she dies and the ice respawns, because I know both of those are true

Edit: Jut saw your edits, the point is more of, we sacrificed damage for the survivability we had. I never even had to use surge to keep alive before this update. And for me that made up for the lack of damage. The fact that our survivability is now on the level of pure sorcs with nothing to compensate with more of where I was getting at.

I dont do overland, and ive only done one run of vma since the changes which was my flawless run. (long since have all the gear) My pets died twice, ice stage, and 2nd stage dwemer. Wasnt a huge issue, but I also specifically made a tankier build because I was flawless hunting.

I never said anything about score. I was commenting about dps. I havent seen a 50k pet sorc parse, ever. With magblades routinely pushing 55k.

Edit: in group content, pet sorcs are quit sturdy

InvictusApollo

I have also abandoned my petsorc. Magblade and Magplar simply are better in every way. The only situation I play petsorc is... pvp O_o

ccfeeling

I still really like my Pets Sorc .

He can dps and healing , because we rare run healer in 4 man DLC HM .

AcadianPaladin

Agree with OP. Prior to Murkmire my sorc (lightning AoE, empowered ward, surge, boundless storm, matriarch, no VF) was very survivable and had mediocre dps - and that was fine by me. No one would ever call her overpowered.

After the shield nerf, she gave up much of what made her a mage and had to grab the same crap that melee warriors grab (more hitpoints and resists). End result is that she is less survivable and does quite a bit less than her previously mediocre damage. What's to like about that? What made her feel like a mage is gone and she is not very much fun anymore. *sad panda*

Dracane

Pets should only require one slot. That's all there is to say for me.
Since Overload's third bar is gone, there is no reason or excuse for them still eating up 2 slots each.

Dracane

codestripper wrote: »

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SirAndy wrote: »

That pretty much sums it up. I still play my PetSorc for solo PvE where the i have to rely on my own survivability.
I run the Clannfear instead of the Matriarch because it still has a soft taunt and i get a cheap 10k burst heal from it.

As far as group content, i've pugged a few trials and dungeons with it during the last two events and it does OK, but it's not a character i would bring for a leaderboard run.

I do however use it for vMA and to solo vet group dungeons ...

The clanfear hasn't provided any sort of taunt for ages. Also that would mean you're not using the scamp which is your highest source of damage as a pet sorc. Not to mention that the matriarch actually heals the same if not more and does it to 2 targets.

The reason the clanfear is used is because it scales off of your max health whereas the twilight scales from your max magicka. I'd also like to point out that all pets actually get a "soft taunt". As in like, they follow the aggression system, if you attack first they taunt to you until either hard taunted or more damage is outweighed at the next soft taunt check.

I recommend trying it out, you don't have to do it that way if it doesn't work for you, but you'll see more damage out of your build for sure. Not trying to kill your playstyle my friend

The clannfear really does taunt, but only when you are the only player present. I always use it against Imperial City bosses on No CP campaigns. It tanks reliably and you can actually even see the 15s taunt debuff on the enemy. It's a great carry when you are alone on no cp. However, useless once another players joins, then the taunt no longer works.

md3788

codestripper wrote: »

Also, here's a parse because I know how some of you people are without one:

Do you run trials or do you play solo? I wonder because your Spell Penetration is so high. If you play trials, do you adjust your set up at all?

MashmalloMan

md3788 wrote: »

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codestripper wrote: »

Also, here's a parse because I know how some of you people are without one:

Do you run trials or do you play solo? I wonder because your Spell Penetration is so high. If you play trials, do you adjust your set up at all?

I was thinking the same thing, it would of been more accurate to show a build you would actually use in a group setting as the penetration here is both inflating dps but lowering dmg potential given all the investment you had to do to make it that high via cp, lover and major breach.

Although the post isn't really about the parse, I hope your switching lover and cp out for groups.

codestripper

Marshall1289 wrote: »

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md3788 wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Also, here's a parse because I know how some of you people are without one:

Do you run trials or do you play solo? I wonder because your Spell Penetration is so high. If you play trials, do you adjust your set up at all?

I was thinking the same thing, it would of been more accurate to show a build you would actually use in a group setting as the penetration here is both inflating dps but lowering dmg potential given all the investment you had to do to make it that high via cp, lover and major breach.

Although the post isn't really about the parse, I hope your switching lover and cp out for groups.

To answer both of your questions, this is what I use in all group content. It does not "inflate dps" for this reason. In group content if I had a real raid group that made me overpen I would consider changing to the mage or thief depending. But I only usually do vMA, HM 4 man content and normal vet trials, where I never overpen due to not enough support sets ever being provided.

Edit: Also, this was a self-buffed parse. So I was applying major breach myself with weakness. I did not adjust my cp for this.

FThisIWantALongerNam

18k pen and only 44k DPS? you're doing something wrong. I've got 46-47k parses from this patch, at under 12k pen. Would easily break 55k if given alkosh/crusher etc and brought to pen cap through external buffs, and still should reach 50k if I changed to lover on self-buffed (or VERY close to, I could also try to cheese higher with zaan instead of ilambris or BT instead of arcane etc etc)

100% agree that DPS wise, they're a bit behind magplar and magblade, but not by as much as you're letting on or believe

(this parse wasn't even using perf asylum, just ilambris, necro and front bar sorrow)

ZettaVC

I'm really interested to know what sets you are running on the pet build now? Because I used to play mine a lot but it has been shelved since murkmire. It's feels weak in infal/necro/zaan or ill. I actually respecced it for pvp. Really miss the shield size!

FThisIWantALongerNam

Infal is part of your problem there, infal should be run on healer, it's garbage for DPS. My parse 2 posts above was necro sorrow and ilambris (could cheese a bit higher with zaan or perf asylum, the former I don't like, and the latter I don't have xD)

f047ys3v3n

Bottom line, pets really arn't strong enough to justify 2 bar slots. In fact, they are no stronger than a typical 1 bar ability. Of course, when they were strong enough it made for an easy to play high dps build that wasn't resource starved so ZOS nerfed that.

ZOS has done better with the surviveability of pets (except vMA which seems to be bugged) this is nice and they generally interfere less with mechanics now then before.

As for the demise of the whole pet / shield synergy with max magica (it used to be a pet / shield / regen) synergy. Just more unintended consequences of ham handed Wobbling. Sorcs are really better off going max spell damage and not max magica now like pretty much everybody else.

I should mention that I prefer playing a frag sorc to a pets one anyway. The pets just always cause issues with mob grouping and players mistaking them for enemies in daedric dungeons and trying to attack them even when they are working.

codestripper

FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

18k pen and only 44k DPS? you're doing something wrong. I've got 46-47k parses from this patch, at under 12k pen. Would easily break 55k if given alkosh/crusher etc and brought to pen cap through external buffs, and still should reach 50k if I changed to lover on self-buffed (or VERY close to, I could also try to cheese higher with zaan instead of ilambris or BT instead of arcane etc etc)

100% agree that DPS wise, they're a bit behind magplar and magblade, but not by as much as you're letting on or believe

(this parse wasn't even using perf asylum, just ilambris, necro and front bar sorrow)

1. That image link does not work
2. So, to clarify about my parse, I get that dps along with nearly unlimited sustain (look at Magicka regen vs drain), which I think is a pretty good trade-off for only a 1-3k dps loss
3. Unless you run with a group that has constant uptime with those debuffs, there is no reason not to run the lover. Almost all content I run I never reach pen cap. my actual penetration is around 12k with lover, breach makes it 18k from elemental drain.
4. Good luck getting 55k with those buffs, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see any parse to backup your words actually.

FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

Infal is part of your problem there, infal should be run on healer, it's garbage for DPS. My parse 2 posts above was necro sorrow and ilambris (could cheese a bit higher with zaan or perf asylum, the former I don't like, and the latter I don't have xD)

codestripper wrote: »

1. Infallible Aether - Extra 8% damage on a target from all incoming sources (usable thanks to our heavy attack rotation)
- No longer viable if you want to keep your survivability at max (see above)
- Must be used in a heavy attack rotation (to get higher numbers people are now switching to light attack rotations to achieve 45-48k~ dps)

I listed this set as one of the benefits to using this class, as I stated before I see pet sorcs as utility classes rather than high dps. I also included a parse to show you can still achieve good numbers with it. In no way was this ever to show a min/max dps parse.

Also, yes it is a great set for the dps to use (if you have a heavy attack rotaiton) because it frees up an extra set slot for healers, which only benefits the group more. Like I said, really no reason not to run it unless you're trying to squeeze out that extra try hard dps like i mentioned above.

md3788

codestripper wrote: »

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FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

18k pen and only 44k DPS? you're doing something wrong. I've got 46-47k parses from this patch, at under 12k pen. Would easily break 55k if given alkosh/crusher etc and brought to pen cap through external buffs, and still should reach 50k if I changed to lover on self-buffed (or VERY close to, I could also try to cheese higher with zaan instead of ilambris or BT instead of arcane etc etc)

100% agree that DPS wise, they're a bit behind magplar and magblade, but not by as much as you're letting on or believe

(this parse wasn't even using perf asylum, just ilambris, necro and front bar sorrow)

1. That image link does not work
2. So, to clarify about my parse, I get that dps along with nearly unlimited sustain (look at Magicka regen vs drain), which I think is a pretty good trade-off for only a 1-3k dps loss
3. Unless you run with a group that has constant uptime with those debuffs, there is no reason not to run the lover. Almost all content I run I never reach pen cap. my actual penetration is around 12k with lover, breach makes it 18k from elemental drain.
4. Good luck getting 55k with those buffs, I'd love to see it. I'd love to see any parse to backup your words actually.

show previous quotes

FThisIWantALongerNam wrote: »

Infal is part of your problem there, infal should be run on healer, it's garbage for DPS. My parse 2 posts above was necro sorrow and ilambris (could cheese a bit higher with zaan or perf asylum, the former I don't like, and the latter I don't have xD)

show previous quotes

codestripper wrote: »

1. Infallible Aether - Extra 8% damage on a target from all incoming sources (usable thanks to our heavy attack rotation)
- No longer viable if you want to keep your survivability at max (see above)
- Must be used in a heavy attack rotation (to get higher numbers people are now switching to light attack rotations to achieve 45-48k~ dps)

I listed this set as one of the benefits to using this class, as I stated before I see pet sorcs as utility classes rather than high dps. I also included a parse to show you can still achieve good numbers with it. In no way was this ever to show a min/max dps parse.

Also, yes it is a great set for the dps to use (if you have a heavy attack rotaiton) because it frees up an extra set slot for healers, which only benefits the group more. Like I said, really no reason not to run it unless you're trying to squeeze out that extra try hard dps like i mentioned above.

What do you swap out for when a healer is running infal? I find most are these days.

codestripper

md3788 wrote: »

What do you swap out for when a healer is running infal? I find most are these days.

Usually I ask if the healer wants to swap to a different support set since infal will be provided, they almost always agree, if they are unable to for whatever reason I use mother's sorrow.

Odovacar

Very true and insightful post! I hope many of the community members (that play them or not) read this. I still enjoy my pet sorc but it's unfortunate with their current state.

Imryll

I've been playing a pet sorc since beta. I have characters of other classes, but none of them have gotten very far into the story. Since the Murkmire nerfs, I've just not wanted to play. I do keep logging in for the daily reward, but my sub recently expired and I don't see myself renewing until I see signs that they want to make the spec fun again. I've bought the Elsweyr chapter, and will play as much of its main quest as you can do solo, just to see the zone, but my enthusiasm for the game is definitely flagging.

katorga

With changes to the game over the last 3 years: pet does not taunt, shield nerfs, overload nerfs, etc. the need to drop pets completely and redo the class fromground up.

The pets, as crappy as they are, are not workable without the overload third bar. The entire tree is useless.

codestripper

katorga wrote: »

With changes to the game over the last 3 years: pet does not taunt, shield nerfs, overload nerfs, etc. the need to drop pets completely and redo the class fromground up.

The pets, as crappy as they are, are not workable without the overload third bar. The entire tree is useless.

I wouldn't exactly go that far. Maybe the third bar is needed in PvP or for healers, but a PvE DPS can still get away with no overload bar. The rotation is simple enough to do so.

Vigawatt

codestripper wrote: »

4. If you're not going to help our survivability, buff the pets and give us more damage, it's as simple as that.

Not to bring other thread topics in to this one, but with the proposed racial changes pets will likely get weaker. With the focus on max magicka for pet sorc, a change from a percentage based magicka increase in racial passives to a fixed value will likely be a decrease for most pet sorc.

I respect that you've been playing pet sorc for a long time. I started playing in June and I have only one character, a pet sorc, so you know the class better than I do. When I was reading about pet sorc builds I would come across threads on how pet sorc could solo almost anything. By the time I had started playing they had been nerfed somewhat but were still powerful. To play devil's advocate, I think the change in Murkmire was meant to balance pet sorc more because they were seen as too powerful.

But the proposed racial changes is more of an inadvertent nerf on pet sorc. Of course I'm biased as I only play pet sorc and I want to have a viable character, but Murkmire stacked with Update 21 really seems to be swinging it too far the other way.

I would consider reworking the pet damage equation so it's a larger scale vs magicka to offset the reduction and provide a damage boost, or the oft requested make the pet abilities one slot. It is structurally different than any other spell, because it's not like if you cast Liquid Lightning then change bars you're AOE vanishes.

To be fair for balance, I'd even consider a timer on the pets if it were to move to one slot only. Like the previous example, other spells don't vanish when you change bars but they also have a time limit. 5 minutes, 10 minutes? Wouldn't get you through a longer fight but having to resummon just once or twice during a longer fight seems ok. However I do like having them always by my side in case I'm attacked when running through a zone.

NinchiTV

Dracane wrote: »

Pets should only require one slot. That's all there is to say for me.
Since Overload's third bar is gone, there is no reason or excuse for them still eating up 2 slots each.

/THREAD

codestripper

Vigawatt wrote: »

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codestripper wrote: »

4. If you're not going to help our survivability, buff the pets and give us more damage, it's as simple as that.

Not to bring other thread topics in to this one, but with the proposed racial changes pets will likely get weaker. With the focus on max magicka for pet sorc, a change from a percentage based magicka increase in racial passives to a fixed value will likely be a decrease for most pet sorc.

I respect that you've been playing pet sorc for a long time. I started playing in June and I have only one character, a pet sorc, so you know the class better than I do. When I was reading about pet sorc builds I would come across threads on how pet sorc could solo almost anything. By the time I had started playing they had been nerfed somewhat but were still powerful. To play devil's advocate, I think the change in Murkmire was meant to balance pet sorc more because they were seen as too powerful.

But the proposed racial changes is more of an inadvertent nerf on pet sorc. Of course I'm biased as I only play pet sorc and I want to have a viable character, but Murkmire stacked with Update 21 really seems to be swinging it too far the other way.

I would consider reworking the pet damage equation so it's a larger scale vs magicka to offset the reduction and provide a damage boost, or the oft requested make the pet abilities one slot. It is structurally different than any other spell, because it's not like if you cast Liquid Lightning then change bars you're AOE vanishes.

To be fair for balance, I'd even consider a timer on the pets if it were to move to one slot only. Like the previous example, other spells don't vanish when you change bars but they also have a time limit. 5 minutes, 10 minutes? Wouldn't get you through a longer fight but having to resummon just once or twice during a longer fight seems ok. However I do like having them always by my side in case I'm attacked when running through a zone.

I run a dunmer on my pet sorc, logged into the PTS last night before bed and found that my DPS has actually increased quite a bit due to the pet changes. (I did lose about 2k magicka though so boo) Using Mother's Sorrow, Necropotence, and Zaans I went from 40k on live to 45k. Haven't tried with infallible aether yet though, I destroyed my staff when I was drunk and I've yet to find a new one. I'm going to try changing up the build this weekend to see if I can push closer to 50k. I think it's perfectly doable with the same rotation, just might need to change up the sets a little.

In terms of making the pets 1 slot...ehhh I mean, they'd need to nerf the pet damage to compensate. I guess we could then fit more on the bars but I'd rather keep the damage on a pet sorc with the pets personally.

IonicKai

I want pets to be a one per bar instead of a true one bar. What I mean is that if you have the familiar on your front bar and the twilight on your back bar they do not despawn on bar swap. This would give pet builds the extra damage or utility from the twilight without sacrificing all their slots and would make it so that you still need a proper pet build as you couldn't just slot one for the free dot.