Necromancer Champion Of Meridia of the Mages Guild And Psjiic Order

Aliyavana

Anyone else feel they need to address this? like unique dialogue? it would feel a bit off like on the level on how people in the base game zones do not recognize you are a vampire.

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

idk

It would be good but it is impractical to rework the quests to have this. It is certainly not worth the costs.

eso_nya

Things u'd need to rework:

Old Mainquest (Lyris: "Wait, u want to recruit a necromancer?? R u trying to be funny or r u really that [edit: bad word for not-smart]?" Sansa Han will be sooo happy \o/)
Mages Guild (founded and led by Vanus with the purpuse of ridding tamriel of necromancy)
A message across tamriel (Vanus, lol, be faster than the slaughterfish when u have to swim to stirk)
Alikr Desert zone quests (try to persuade the guards on the dock its a good idea to let a necro in their lands when they have their hands full with two of em already)
Aertaeum (who'd think boss-of-valsiren would ban a necro for being what he is? They'd prolly wouldnt let u into Alinor anyways)
Hews Bane (Those guys r mainly redguards aswell)
Aldmeri Zones after Marbruk (the queen wont be fond of necros anymore)
The Rift (w/ the Wormcult trying to enslave companion spirits and sinmur)
Glenumbra (Wormcult farming reputation for u again)
Rivenspire (the peasants might have an opinion against undead thralls)
Southern Bangkorai (Prejudiceless Redguards again, fighting a necromantress)
Eastmarch (King Jorunn might have an opinion aswell after what his brother tried to pull with his dead sister)
Not quite sure about Shadowfenn iirr the skinstealers were using necro magic aswell? Argonians prolly dont care, to relaxed to bother. "Nahhh beko, u have to do what u have to do, the river flows and noone cares."

On the upside: That Indoril guy in Stonefalls prolly thinks u r cool, kinda, well he has the bigger one

Doesnt really qualify for a sad Drizzt Do'Urden backstory aswell, as u could just learn some real magic.

RaddlemanNumber7

I don't see any need for this. They are all quite happy to work with someone who is a Vampire, Lycanthrope, Dark Brotherhood member, thief, person with maximum heat and/or an astronomical bounty. Just having Necromancer as your underlying Class is no big deal by comparison.

gepe87

Who cares about coherent story and lore? People asked for necromancer and we will have it. $$$ matters. Maybe we can have some Kirkbride sci-fi stuff too.

WuffyCerulei

The fact that Meridia doesn’t give 2 craps about you being a vampire in-game kinda goes along the line here. Same with being a vamp/werewolf with the fighter’s guild.

myskyrim26

It is just a gameplay. Meridia hates undead, yet you can be a vampire and she pays no attention. Same for Mages Guild and Psjiic. They don't care about vampire or werewolf member. It's an MMO - that's the problem. In a single game NPCs could refuse to talk or something. But not in MMO.

Ajaxandriel

The Alik'r quest line will have no sense as a Necromancer PC :')

Ermiq

eso_nya wrote: »

Things u'd need to rework:

Old Mainquest (Lyris: "Wait, u want to recruit a necromancer?? R u trying to be funny or r u really that [edit: bad word for not-smart]?" Sansa Han will be sooo happy \o/)
Mages Guild (founded and led by Vanus with the purpuse of ridding tamriel of necromancy)
A message across tamriel (Vanus, lol, be faster than the slaughterfish when u have to swim to stirk)
Alikr Desert zone quests (try to persuade the guards on the dock its a good idea to let a necro in their lands when they have their hands full with two of em already)
Aertaeum (who'd think boss-of-valsiren would ban a necro for being what he is? They'd prolly wouldnt let u into Alinor anyways)
Hews Bane (Those guys r mainly redguards aswell)
Aldmeri Zones after Marbruk (the queen wont be fond of necros anymore)
The Rift (w/ the Wormcult trying to enslave companion spirits and sinmur)
Glenumbra (Wormcult farming reputation for u again)
Rivenspire (the peasants might have an opinion against undead thralls)
Southern Bangkorai (Prejudiceless Redguards again, fighting a necromantress)
Eastmarch (King Jorunn might have an opinion aswell after what his brother tried to pull with his dead sister)
Not quite sure about Shadowfenn iirr the skinstealers were using necro magic aswell? Argonians prolly dont care, to relaxed to bother. "Nahhh beko, u have to do what u have to do, the river flows and noone cares."

On the upside: That Indoril guy in Stonefalls prolly thinks u r cool, kinda, well he has the bigger one

Doesnt really qualify for a sad Drizzt Do'Urden backstory aswell, as u could just learn some real magic.

Awesome arguments here.
Sadly, we already know ZOS don't give a duck about the lore and immersive issues and inconsistencies.
Really disappointed. Another one great MMORPG is ruined by money-driven and crowd-controlled developement.

Chaos2088

This is an MMO people.......there is going to be stuff like this, if it erks you that much....don't play the game.

Ermiq

Chaos2088 wrote: »

This is an MMO people.......there is going to be stuff like this, if it erks you that much....don't play the game.

That's what I'm doing now actually.
I was in slack-mode lately which means I didn't play the game actively but I was checking out what's going on in the game and I've been waiting for something interesting that might get me back to the game.
It was so nice to see the news about necrodancers, you know. For me personally, it's like Pandaria announcement in WoW. It's like "are you kidding me?".
I'm still here just because I've spent some lifetime in this game, I've putted some efforts and invested some money into it, it has been a great game mostly, and now I've got fractured but whole, if you know what I mean.

notimetocare

Eremith wrote: »

eso_nya wrote: »

Things u'd need to rework:

Old Mainquest (Lyris: "Wait, u want to recruit a necromancer?? R u trying to be funny or r u really that [edit: bad word for not-smart]?" Sansa Han will be sooo happy \o/)
Mages Guild (founded and led by Vanus with the purpuse of ridding tamriel of necromancy)
A message across tamriel (Vanus, lol, be faster than the slaughterfish when u have to swim to stirk)
Alikr Desert zone quests (try to persuade the guards on the dock its a good idea to let a necro in their lands when they have their hands full with two of em already)
Aertaeum (who'd think boss-of-valsiren would ban a necro for being what he is? They'd prolly wouldnt let u into Alinor anyways)
Hews Bane (Those guys r mainly redguards aswell)
Aldmeri Zones after Marbruk (the queen wont be fond of necros anymore)
The Rift (w/ the Wormcult trying to enslave companion spirits and sinmur)
Glenumbra (Wormcult farming reputation for u again)
Rivenspire (the peasants might have an opinion against undead thralls)
Southern Bangkorai (Prejudiceless Redguards again, fighting a necromantress)
Eastmarch (King Jorunn might have an opinion aswell after what his brother tried to pull with his dead sister)
Not quite sure about Shadowfenn iirr the skinstealers were using necro magic aswell? Argonians prolly dont care, to relaxed to bother. "Nahhh beko, u have to do what u have to do, the river flows and noone cares."

On the upside: That Indoril guy in Stonefalls prolly thinks u r cool, kinda, well he has the bigger one

Doesnt really qualify for a sad Drizzt Do'Urden backstory aswell, as u could just learn some real magic.

Awesome arguments here.
Sadly, we already know ZOS don't give a duck about the lore and immersive issues and inconsistencies.
Really disappointed. Another one great MMORPG is ruined by money-driven and crowd-controlled developement.

LOL, Given the scope of differences in a SP vs MMORPG, ZoS has done incredibly well in terms of lore. It's there, just have to take the nerd rage blinders off. This isn't you anime-modded Skyrim kiddos

Urvoth

They don't necessarily have to know you're a vampire or necromancer if you hide it well.

Irfind

But what is with he mage guild ? We join them as players, but they banished necros ... what

Hm ok i just disguise me as a special mage then

NordSwordnBoard

In regards to Meridia, iirc a bunch of vampires help you fight Molag Bal. We look at vamps & ww differently because the majority of us get bitten on purpose. That's not always the case for NPCs, so Meridia may have some sympathy if they were victims - that can be cured.

Necromancers choose to work with the dead specifically, and the only cure is not to practice.

So I guess player necromancers are like a replicant hunting other replicants in Bladerunner. Plenty of issues there they could work into cut scenes and dialogue to make this fit together.

Mannimarco – Mannimarco lost his title as a companion when he betrayed the rest of the group.
Vestige – During "Council of the Five Companions," the Vestige is given the option of becoming the new fifth Companion.

"Another necromancer? What could go wrong - of course we trust the Vestige - don't pre-judge him!"

A vote to kick NecroVestige from the group has started:

Korah_Eaglecry

gepe87 wrote: »

Who cares about coherent story and lore? People asked for necromancer and we will have it. $$$ matters. Maybe we can have some Kirkbride sci-fi stuff too.

I guess you think youre being clever here but the truth is going back and reworking content on that level would take years. And there is no viable reason to deny players the opportunity to play a new class, one that has been asked for for a long time, because older content conflicts with the class.

zaria

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

I don't see any need for this. They are all quite happy to work with someone who is a Vampire, Lycanthrope, Dark Brotherhood member, thief, person with maximum heat and/or an astronomical bounty. Just having Necromancer as your underlying Class is no big deal by comparison.

How do people know you are an necromancer if you don't cast necromancer spells?
Granted the comment from abnur tharn during the main quest, we make an necromaster of you become a bit like guards in Skyrim complaining that Khajiit having furry ears.

ArchMikem

myskyrim26 wrote: »

It is just a gameplay. Meridia hates undead, yet you can be a vampire and she pays no attention. Same for Mages Guild and Psjiic. They don't care about vampire or werewolf member. It's an MMO - that's the problem. In a single game NPCs could refuse to talk or something. But not in MMO.

The Psijics banned Necromancy with extreme prejudice after what happened with Mannimarco. In no rational way would they allow a Necromancer join the Order.

OtarTheMad

A necromancer would do what we would do IRL if faced with something similar... lie.

Tessitura

eso_nya wrote: »

Things u'd need to rework:

Old Mainquest (Lyris: "Wait, u want to recruit a necromancer?? R u trying to be funny or r u really that [edit: bad word for not-smart]?" Sansa Han will be sooo happy \o/)
Mages Guild (founded and led by Vanus with the purpuse of ridding tamriel of necromancy)
A message across tamriel (Vanus, lol, be faster than the slaughterfish when u have to swim to stirk)
Alikr Desert zone quests (try to persuade the guards on the dock its a good idea to let a necro in their lands when they have their hands full with two of em already)
Aertaeum (who'd think boss-of-valsiren would ban a necro for being what he is? They'd prolly wouldnt let u into Alinor anyways)
Hews Bane (Those guys r mainly redguards aswell)
Aldmeri Zones after Marbruk (the queen wont be fond of necros anymore)
The Rift (w/ the Wormcult trying to enslave companion spirits and sinmur)
Glenumbra (Wormcult farming reputation for u again)
Rivenspire (the peasants might have an opinion against undead thralls)
Southern Bangkorai (Prejudiceless Redguards again, fighting a necromantress)
Eastmarch (King Jorunn might have an opinion aswell after what his brother tried to pull with his dead sister)
Not quite sure about Shadowfenn iirr the skinstealers were using necro magic aswell? Argonians prolly dont care, to relaxed to bother. "Nahhh beko, u have to do what u have to do, the river flows and noone cares."

On the upside: That Indoril guy in Stonefalls prolly thinks u r cool, kinda, well he has the bigger one

Doesnt really qualify for a sad Drizzt Do'Urden backstory aswell, as u could just learn some real magic.

Just to be clear, the Mage's Guild was not founded to get rid of necromancy, it was founded in to give the common people a safe place to learn and practice magic, as well as have access to magical services since the Psijic would not do it. Vanus just so happens to have a personal history with Mannimarco and wants to stop him. After Marco and Vanus are gone, the Mage's Guild becomes open to necromancy, then at the end of the guilds days, it banes it once more thanks to Travon. And your other problems are somewhat handled in that, it's illegal to cast necromancy spells, you do it and you get a bounty if caught. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for me.

Nerouyn

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this?

Yes. It's one of the things I can't wrap my head around. They have to address this.

Meridia despises the undead on an elemental level. She'd want to kill a player necromancer on sight.

The psijics are not quite as rabidly anti necromancers but are definitely anti. Again I don't think they would knowingly do business with one. And they're supposedly near all knowing.

Aliyavana wrote: »

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

I don't think that's anywhere near enough.

For Meridia the only way I could see it working is if she pretends not to notice the player is a necromancer (i.e. no change to existing content) secretly planning to use them to achieve her goals, then double cross and kill them. But maybe Molag Bal - who loves necromancers - could somehow thwart her and save the player.

That would only require a tiny bit of extra, alternative content and VO - her trying to kill you at the end of the main story and maybe the player being portaled away to safety by one of Molag Bal's minions. Easy.

For the Psijics, it could work in parallel to the justice system. Maybe you can get away with joining them, completing their content and skill line, if you just never use any class abilities for that duration (about 6 hours). Rely on weapons and other guild abilities.

Use a necro ability and they notice and kick you out. Then there could be a timeline reset cooldown (1 week) after which you can visit an NPC who'll throw you back in time for another attempt. Vivec would have the juice and the inclination. It's not necromancy to dunmer unless practiced on dunmer corpses. And you never do

Once you've completed the Psijic quests, you could safely be kicked out again. You'd have learned the skills. You just wouldn't be able to enter their tower. Provided any relevant quest lore books are outside the tower that wouldn't be a problem.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

Nerouyn wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this?

Yes. It's one of the things I can't wrap my head around. They have to address this.

Meridia despises the undead on an elemental level. She'd want to kill a player necromancer on sight.

The psijics are not quite as rabidly anti necromancers but are definitely anti. Again I don't think they would knowingly do business with one. And they're supposedly near all knowing.

Aliyavana wrote: »

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

I don't think that's anywhere near enough.

For Meridia the only way I could see it working is if she pretends not to notice the player is a necromancer (i.e. no change to existing content) secretly planning to use them to achieve her goals, then double cross and kill them. But maybe Molag Bal - who loves necromancers - could somehow thwart her and save the player.

That would only require a tiny bit of extra, alternative content and VO - her trying to kill you at the end of the main story and maybe the player being portaled away to safety by one of Molag Bal's minions. Easy.

For the Psijics, it could work in parallel to the justice system. Maybe you can get away with joining them, completing their content and skill line, if you just never use any class abilities for that duration (about 6 hours). Rely on weapons and other guild abilities.

Use a necro ability and they notice and kick you out. Then there could be a timeline reset cooldown (1 week) after which you can visit an NPC who'll throw you back in time for another attempt. Vivec would have the juice and the inclination. It's not necromancy to dunmer unless practiced on dunmer corpses. And you never do

Once you've completed the Psijic quests, you could safely be kicked out again. You'd have learned the skills. You just wouldn't be able to enter their tower. Provided any relevant quest lore books are outside the tower that wouldn't be a problem.

I’d be all for that.

max_only

Urvoth wrote: »

They don't necessarily have to know you're a vampire or necromancer if you hide it well.

OtarTheMad wrote: »

A necromancer would do what we would do IRL if faced with something similar... lie.

This.

In the housing quest you can say “of course I don’t worship Daedra [lie]”. It gives the same result no matter which you pick.

So we can lie and obfuscate no problem. Also, not all necromancers are bad people, take a look at Ed and Alphonse Elric. Sometimes you necro out of love.

Dumac

If they do have the justice system react to the use of Necromancy, then that means that Mages Guild and Psijics will react to the use of the magic as if it is a crime. So, that would help for it to fit in better with the whole; "how can I be a necromancer and a member of the mages guild" thing.

Kulvar

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this? like unique dialogue? it would feel a bit off like on the level on how people in the base game zones do not recognize you are a vampire.

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

They don't even acknowledge race in several quest.
There's an Altmer merchant in Stonefall asking for help and calling Argonians "beasts" even if you're an Argonian.
There's an other quest with a Dunmer slaver telling you that Argonian have no real emotions so it's okay to abuse them. Yep, even if you're an Argonian.

KhajiitFelix

Kulvar wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this? like unique dialogue? it would feel a bit off like on the level on how people in the base game zones do not recognize you are a vampire.

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

They don't even acknowledge race in several quest.
There's an Altmer merchant in Stonefall asking for help and calling Argonians "beasts" even if you're an Argonian.
There's an other quest with a Dunmer slaver telling you that Argonian have no real emotions so it's okay to abuse them. Yep, even if you're an Argonian.

Zos explained it so it's lore friendly. They have low resolution eyes so they are blind.

Number_51

"NECROMANCY?! Pshaaaw... that was just a summoning spell with a touch of illusion thrown in."

As for Meridia, he/she's a Deadric Prince and does what he/she wants for his/her own reasons.

Necromancer or not, how do you think Meridia is going to feel about you when you enter Garlas Malatar and slaughter all the Aurorans? Careful, I believe the third paragraph in the link contains spoilers about upcoming DLC.

Bruccius

Kulvar wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this? like unique dialogue? it would feel a bit off like on the level on how people in the base game zones do not recognize you are a vampire.

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

They don't even acknowledge race in several quest.
There's an Altmer merchant in Stonefall asking for help and calling Argonians "beasts" even if you're an Argonian.
There's an other quest with a Dunmer slaver telling you that Argonian have no real emotions so it's okay to abuse them. Yep, even if you're an Argonian.

Well, Argonians are literally beastfolk, so the Altmer merchant isn't wrong....
And we all know the Dunmer never liked Argonians, and certainly didn't care for their feelings. Ever played TES III as an Argonian? You should.

notimetocare

Urvoth wrote: »

They don't necessarily have to know you're a vampire or necromancer if you hide it well.

Vampire yes, necromancer? Not really. Especially when that magic is your primary form of combat xD

Korah_Eaglecry

Kulvar wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

Anyone else feel they need to address this? like unique dialogue? it would feel a bit off like on the level on how people in the base game zones do not recognize you are a vampire.

Something like meridia saying she dislikes us but is just using us or lie options for the mages guild, etc.

They don't even acknowledge race in several quest.
There's an Altmer merchant in Stonefall asking for help and calling Argonians "beasts" even if you're an Argonian.
There's an other quest with a Dunmer slaver telling you that Argonian have no real emotions so it's okay to abuse them. Yep, even if you're an Argonian.

By that logic they should also refuse to do quests with you when youre wanted or commit a crime in their presence. People are getting entirely too bent out of shape over necromancers.

Kulvar

@Bruccius I'm not saying that Altmer/Dunmer should be kind with Argonians, I'm saying that it's weird for quest giver to trash talk Argonians when giving quests to Argonians players. In this case, the dialog should slightly change. Still full of racism, but in a more subtle way.

@Korah_Eaglecry Wrong, because when you commit a crime in Glenumbra, there's no reason for a quest giver to know about it on the opposite side of Tamriel. You keeping your bounty everywhere is pure gameplay.