The problem with expansions that have new classes

Bigevilpeter

First of all expansions are much more expansive than dlcs, also you can't buy them with crowns and they add a lot of important content that would hinder you otherwise if you didnt buy, so you will basically have to buy the expansion if you really want to play the game. Now the other issue with expansions that have new classes is that you need 2 character slots at least to try stamina and magika of that class, however by now so many of the didicated players have already reached the character limit of 8 if not more, so when they buy the expansion they will have to buy 2 extra character slots for 3000 crowns just to be able to try the new class.

So lets say the expansion costs 40$ and then 2 more slots cost around 24$ so thats 64$ just to play the new content that was supposed to be included with the expansion.

Maybe 2 character slots for free would be extreme but at least 1 free slot would show some respect to the playerbase and show that they are not just greedy *** who only care about the money.

Morrowind had this problem for me so I waited till it went on discount to buy the expanion then bought and extra slot afterwards, not because I didnt have the money but because I didnt think they deserved that money from me.

gepe87

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

MajBludd

Delete a toon, make a new one. I always leave at least 3 spots open to try new things. Do you really need 12+ characters?

Reistr_the_Unbroken

MajBludd wrote: »

Delete a toon, make a new one. I always leave at least 3 spots open to try new things. Do you really need 12+ characters?

I have four characters, three that are related to each other as a mother, son and step father, then a Necromancer. Like what am I going to do with the extra slots? Idk yet.

MajBludd

Just save them til you think of something. I find a rushed character usually ends up deleted before you vet it. That's my experience anyways.

Take your time and think of what you want to make. Work on that backstory, if you rp, and then come up with the build.

Turelus

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Wasn't Necromancer another one which was planned/there very early then merged into Sorcerer instead? @SirAndy might be able to confirm/deny that one for me.

Also a class doesn't need years to make, it could be in development for a month or five years and will still never be perfect. The issue with Warden wasn't so much it was bad at launch, but that they ignored that fact for almost two years.

As for OP's comments I agree it's expensive, but at the same time if you're playing ESO (or any MMO really) to compete or enjoy content you're always going to have to pay more money for content, either as expansions or a sub with free updates.

Bigevilpeter

MajBludd wrote: »

Delete a toon, make a new one. I always leave at least 3 spots open to try new things. Do you really need 12+ characters?

I have 10 maxed out characters geared up and everything, deleting 50+ hours of my life is not an option and it shouldnt be so. Also its not like I make a ton of similar characters it is exactly a stamina and magicka of every class which should be fair if I wanted to experience all classes in the game.

Maybe some people dont care about trying every class in the game but it should be expected specially for players who have been playing for 4 years now

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

warden came out a year and half ago, 2 years by the time this chapter comes out. and if you dont think that they had both these classes in mind and at least on the internal test areas since before the game came out, i dont know what to tell you.

Mettaricana

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

To be fair 98% of the necromancer class was probly in the game already

Bone hands aoe on ground
Flaming blue skull projectile
Skeletons
Exploding skeletons
Bone colossus
Flesh atro
That ghost hand that imobilizes
Wraith fear attak
Zombies

Pet sorc ai

Slap on a few passives and a couple morphs and its all been there since mannimarco vanilla game

Merlin13KAGL

MajBludd wrote: »

Delete a toon, make a new one. I always leave at least 3 spots open to try new things. Do you really need 12+ characters?

Hmmmm...currently 5 classes x 3 roles (and this doesn't even count PvP only setups)...

Another way to look at it would be 5 classes x 3 options (Tank, Stam DPS, Mag DPS/Healer ~ since the last two are fairly interchangeable).

15 pretty much puts you at cap, any way you look at it, and that's before introduction of a new class.

If ZoS was really smart, they'd keep character count limited, but offer import/export tokens for existing characters in the crown store, with both tied to the account (to prevent character/account selling.)

That would allow people to 'shelve' alts during less viable patches without losing progress entirely.

Peekachu99

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

I main a stamden and magden and if you can’t value the utility of the class then you’ve no right playing or commenting on it. You’re probably one of the people sending me salty tells when birded and snared to death while my health bar barely dips. Or asking me how I solo’d Lord Warden as a tank when the rest of you were too stupid to use portals.

It’s taken ZoS a while, but a great class and it’s in a good spot unless you’re in a competetive Trials guild, and even then the damage ceiling is so high now that it’s irrelevant.

Necromancers will probably go through similar growing pains.

Derra

Turelus wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Wasn't Necromancer another one which was planned/there very early then merged into Sorcerer instead? @SirAndy might be able to confirm/deny that one for me.

Also a class doesn't need years to make, it could be in development for a month or five years and will still never be perfect. The issue with Warden wasn't so much it was bad at launch, but that they ignored that fact for almost two years.

As for OP's comments I agree it's expensive, but at the same time if you're playing ESO (or any MMO really) to compete or enjoy content you're always going to have to pay more money for content, either as expansions or a sub with free updates.

The only issue might be: If they manage to make pets fun to use on necromancer they´ll face a LOT of upset sorcs.

BigBadVolk

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Wasn't Necromancer another one which was planned/there very early then merged into Sorcerer instead? @SirAndy might be able to confirm/deny that one for me.

Also a class doesn't need years to make, it could be in development for a month or five years and will still never be perfect. The issue with Warden wasn't so much it was bad at launch, but that they ignored that fact for almost two years.

As for OP's comments I agree it's expensive, but at the same time if you're playing ESO (or any MMO really) to compete or enjoy content you're always going to have to pay more money for content, either as expansions or a sub with free updates.

The only issue might be: If they manage to make pets fun to use on necromancer they´ll face a LOT of upset sorcs.

This pretty much, even if just necro pets dont need to be double barred, imagine the uproar

Turelus

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Wasn't Necromancer another one which was planned/there very early then merged into Sorcerer instead? @SirAndy might be able to confirm/deny that one for me.

Also a class doesn't need years to make, it could be in development for a month or five years and will still never be perfect. The issue with Warden wasn't so much it was bad at launch, but that they ignored that fact for almost two years.

As for OP's comments I agree it's expensive, but at the same time if you're playing ESO (or any MMO really) to compete or enjoy content you're always going to have to pay more money for content, either as expansions or a sub with free updates.

The only issue might be: If they manage to make pets fun to use on necromancer they´ll face a LOT of upset sorcs.

One would hope that if they're doing work on pets, everyone would get the love.

Nolic1

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Well in the interview about Morrowind on there ESO Live show they said they had several classes they wanted to release but the Warden was the one they picked for that release and they only worked on it for about a 1 year the same amount of time they have worked on most Chapter releases. See the dev teams work on different projects and when the finish one they move onto the next one for the following year. So everything coming out this year is already being worked on and has sense the first DLC of last year this season of the dragons was most likely lined out sometime after most likely Craglorn.

Wifeaggro13

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

First of all expansions are much more expansive than dlcs, also you can't buy them with crowns and they add a lot of important content that would hinder you otherwise if you didnt buy, so you will basically have to buy the expansion if you really want to play the game. Now the other issue with expansions that have new classes is that you need 2 character slots at least to try stamina and magika of that class, however by now so many of the didicated players have already reached the character limit of 8 if not more, so when they buy the expansion they will have to buy 2 extra character slots for 3000 crowns just to be able to try the new class.

So lets say the expansion costs 40$ and then 2 more slots cost around 24$ so thats 64$ just to play the new content that was supposed to be included with the expansion.

Maybe 2 character slots for free would be extreme but at least 1 free slot would show some respect to the playerbase and show that they are not just greedy *** who only care about the money.

Morrowind had this problem for me so I waited till it went on discount to buy the expanion then bought and extra slot afterwards, not because I didnt have the money but because I didnt think they deserved that money from me.

Your right they dont deserve it . They threw necro together to sell a chapter they knew even the churn base likely would not buy.after the dismal reception of the last chapter . The player base jas figured out all they are doing is breaking and regurgitating the same content as what they released in 2014. I dont expect the necro will even function as a class anyone will want to play in game past cp 160.

yodased

Lol its not even announced officially and you already spitting venom.

Not that i exactly have faith in this company, but give them at least a chance to inform you of something before you order a case of haterade.

doggie

I think it's fair to charge for content, the way Zenimax does it is not the worst. They don't force us to buy the expansion after all. Games like WoW or Destiny actually forces you to buy the latest exp. or you'll be left behind.

Jameliel

It's obvious at this point that all zos cares about is making as much money as possible. The game like many others has a lot of potential that will most likely never be realized. Bugs, bad performance, horrible furnishing plan drop rates, constant over-nerfing, and the list goes on and on. Many great suggestions for improvement have been provided. They are ignored, and the Leads implement random nonsense while the marketing team marches on pushing crown store items and other glitter.

Bigevilpeter

yodased wrote: »

Lol its not even announced officially and you already spitting venom.

Not that i exactly have faith in this company, but give them at least a chance to inform you of something before you order a case of haterade.

They did this with Morrowind so I expect them to do the same with the next expansion, however this is not a haterade it is merely a recommendation

TequilaFire

Derra wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

Wasn't Necromancer another one which was planned/there very early then merged into Sorcerer instead? @SirAndy might be able to confirm/deny that one for me.

Also a class doesn't need years to make, it could be in development for a month or five years and will still never be perfect. The issue with Warden wasn't so much it was bad at launch, but that they ignored that fact for almost two years.

As for OP's comments I agree it's expensive, but at the same time if you're playing ESO (or any MMO really) to compete or enjoy content you're always going to have to pay more money for content, either as expansions or a sub with free updates.

The only issue might be: If they manage to make pets fun to use on necromancer they´ll face a LOT of upset sorcs.

Sorcs are always upset.
Now you will know how Templars felt when Warden was released.

Seraphayel

Some of the arguments here are pretty flat imho:

- I need more character slots to play each class as Stamina or Magicka: no you don't. One slot per class is enough for that because you really don't need two characters of the same class to experience Stamina or Magicka. Same with the "role" argument. One argument in that regard would be one slot for each race because you actually can't play two races on one character. Don't get me wrong, limited character slots is a very cheap way to monetize your game but your Magicka/Stamina argument is not working

- If you are really into playing this game you buy a Chapter without feeling the need to stay competitive or because it offers a new class or new item sets or so. I think it's absolutely fine to "sell" new classes as a feature

- ESO classes compared to other MMORPGs classes are super flat, boring and missing a lot of deeper development. Any talented individual could come up with a new class within one day. I could do that and present you a fully fleshed out class in "ESO regards" by tomorrow afternoon. So the argument for why Warden feels so lacking or Necromancer might be bad are not really working

MLGProPlayer

This is the only MMO I've ever heard of that doesn't give you a free character slot when they release a new class. It's really scummy.

Elwendryll

Oh, I have a theory. Necromancer is not a new class but instead, it will replace sorcerers! They said they were going to make a change on sorcerers in a future update, right?

Starlock

It's important to recognize that not everyone plays the game in the same way as you, or for the same reasons as you. I'm not seeing a good argument for why Zenimax should give everyone a free character slot when many (probably most) players would neither need nor use it for the reasons given in the OP.

Something that would benefit all players? Add 10 bank space upgrade to maximum for every new piece of content that drops. With each new bit of content, they add more style mats, set items, and so forth. Yet bank space max has never been increased. That's a problem for just about everybody.

karekiz

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

This is the only MMO I've ever heard of that doesn't give you a free character slot when they release a new class. It's really scummy.

Everquest
New classes:
Beastlord/Berserker

New Races:
Race:
Iksar/Vah shir/Froglok

Later remixed classes to different races:
Beastlord/Berserker

Never got a free slot

*Don't recall me getting one with Deathknights either, but I could be wrong.

Revokus

gepe87 wrote: »

Still shocked how they made a class in 1 year. Warden was planned from the beginning and its a fail.

There is rumours that Necro was planned as the 6th class all along too. The missing spot in the character creation is a light armor archetype and necro is represented in npc’s just as much as other classes.

lagrue

I wonder how many people actually recognize that our saves are server side and that Zenimax has to consistently pay up to store these saves... I wonder how many recognize most games with server side saving either charge for additional storage - or just severely limit the player... this is the norm for a good reason.

Considering the size of files in modern games, and the sheer amount of stuff to be saved... I mean just housing alone must be a financial nightmare due it having to remember all the houses you own, and for each of them all positions of furniture, etc.. and that's just one system.... It wouldn't shock me in the least if people have saves for this game in the literal gigabytes.... now multiply that by 10 million accounts, which even if not active, have to be saved. The fact we can have some what... like 3-4000 items worth of storage space - not to mention craft bags and double capacities form plus? Then your quests, all their progress and stages, what on the map you've visited and done, achievements.. the list goes on... You think all this stuff fits nice into one simple tiny save at no expense to ZOS? You genuinely believe they roll in the big bucks with slot sales?

Reflect on this and then ask yourself why they might not want to willy nilly throw away character slots at a point.... ask yourself just how much money you have to spend to buy the storage servers of 10 million accounts in a game of this caliber...

I highly doubt greed is the factor here - most businesses would call it practicality... the game comes with 8 free slots... that's more than flexible and if you aren't willing to pay up then you can easily just delete a character and invest the 5 hours it takes to powerlevel a toon.

Mettaricana

Now we just need a 7th and 8th class and to restore unique flavor to each class rather than make everyone to king of dps heal tanks because the other class cried wolf

theyancey

A new class isn't a problem. It is an opportunity.

Wildberryjack

Generally in games I'm an altoholic and this game has been no different. However lately I'm looking to delete the duplicates because I simply do not have time to play them all. I've decided I want one of each class only. To me what is ideal with character slots is enough to cover each class and a few extra for bank alts and such. I may keep one of my lvl 50 duplicates to use for my bank alt and delete my low level bank alt now but it comes down to how many slots are reasonable to give? I know players in WoW who have all 50 slots full and cry for more, I mean where should they draw the line? And yeah it should be drawn as all of that takes storage on the servers.