Will we ever see new game systems?

Faulgor

Expect ESO Chapters to introduce things like new game systems, new classes, and a ton of new content.
- Matt Firor, February 2017

System updates are those that add entirely new systems to the way you can play your existing characters, not merely widening their capabilities, but adding a new layer.
Classes do not fit that description (Firor obviously also makes a distinction), because they cannot be used with existing characters, and merely widen the available class roster instead of deepening the character system itself.

Previous updates that could be considered new systems fall into four broad categories:
QoL: Transmutation and Jewelry Crafting make it easier to put the gear sets you want together, but they don't add new functionality.
Cosmetic: The Outfit system and Housing, while fun and welcome, don't add much to gameplay besides gold sinks and Crown Store items.
Gameplay modes: Battlegrounds are the only addition that comes to mind here. Another one could be horse racing, which has been brought up since beta as a possible update.
Character enhancing: The Champion system is probably the last one we got in this category, and it has been years since then. If you want to be generous you could include the Psijic skill line, but that was barely a drop.

With the introduction of Necromancers, this chapter once again doesn't give us meaningful character enhancing game systems, and I'm afraid after spellcrafting has apparently been scrapped for good, we will not see any for the rest of this game's lifetime. I, and I suspect many others, wouldn't be so unhappy with new classes if we didn't feel they came at the cost of system updates we could use to develop the characters we've played for years. Outside of constant balance updates and new outfits styles, they are virtually unchanged.

I want to make the case that ESO has been lacking in this category, character enhancing system updates, for quite some time, despite them being some of the most requested features.
Including, but not limited to:

• Spellcrafting
• New weapon skills (Unarmed, Spears, Crossbows, staffs of more magical schools, etc)
• Religious/Cult affiliation
• Secondary classes
• New tier of skill/class morphs
• Champion system overhaul
• Difficulty setting with reward systems

When chapters were first introduced, we were told that this format was better to add such new game systems than smaller DLC, but we are closing in on our 3rd chapter release, and no such system update is to be seen.
Is ZOS still interested in developing such systems? Are the players even still interested, or have they become content with more of the same?

Dracane

I definately wish to see new systems. The ones you have listed are all things I would like to have.
From what I have gathered over time, it seems many people would love those things as well.

AlienatedGoat

While I understand your frustration, I also think that new updates in the game have been coming at a good pace. We've managed to see a lot of progress made since Morrowind.

I think that while it's not going to be quick enough to satisfy everyone, ZOS does still have plans to implement new game systems. I wouldn't even count out spellcrafting just yet.

Sheuib

I think jewelry crafting was a meaningful enhancement. It definitely opened up a lot of options.

I need to clarify that the biggest enhancement provided by jewelry crafting is not so much being able to add crafted jewelry as the added jewelry traits.

Seraphayel

I really hope they have some new game systems planned for 2019. If not... the game will be pretty boring.

Battlegrounds were a great addition. Housing / transmutation too. I expect them to release at least one new feature this year and no, a new class doesn't count for me in that regard, new skill lines neither.

Wifeaggro13

This game is so far behind it competition even when games released in 2004 at their 4 year mark were far far beyond this game in every facet. Class diversity, alternate advancement, housing , progression. This game is large but very shallow.

Faulgor

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

While I understand your frustration, I also think that new updates in the game have been coming at a good pace. We've managed to see a lot of progress made since Morrowind.

I think that while it's not going to be quick enough to satisfy everyone, ZOS does still have plans to implement new game systems. I wouldn't even count out spellcrafting just yet.

I agree that the updates that we have seen were pretty good. I definitely like the game more than 2-3 years ago.
We just have no idea if and what their plans are anymore in these areas, and as some like spellcrafting have been teased and never delivered, it leaves you a bit demoralized.

Currently I'm really looking forward to the long-term plans for combat @ZOS_RobGarrett talked about. I really hope they let us in on some of it, but communication has been kind of one-sided the past few months.

Odnoc

New systems, perhaps, as long as they're not like that other game that completely redesigns the classes each expansion because they don't know how to actually "expand" the game, rather just reset everything...

idk

Faulgor wrote: »

I want to make the case that ESO has been lacking in this category, character enhancing system updates, for quite some time, despite them being some of the most requested features.
Including, but not limited to:

• Spellcrafting
• New weapon skills (Unarmed, Spears, Crossbows, staffs of more magical schools, etc)
• Religious/Cult affiliation
• Secondary classes
• New tier of skill/class morphs
• Champion system overhaul
• Difficulty setting with reward systems

It seems that we have only received two chapters and with them we got both a new class and a skill line. Not to mention that we received other new additions like Transmutation came between them.

It seems the case is more solid that the quoted statement above is lacking real detail. I expect since OP has not gotten whatever it is they want that they feel the rest that has been added is not sufficient.

BTW, what is requested is very much secondary. The devs have the responsabillty to determine what they feel works well with the game, then what is worth the effort alone with what is truly feasible. Some of those ideas listed will likely never be added to the game (and are rarely requested).

BTW, Zos is adding a new class (likely it seems) or skill line this year bringing more of this to the game.

Ertosi

@Faulgor I've been catching up on my surveys for the last hour pondering exactly the same thing. Thank you for bringing it up and putting it so well in the OP.

QoL is exactly what I'm looking for as well in the game. Stuff you listed like new weapons, new skills or skill morphs, cosmetic systems, and new types of crafting (especially Spellcrafting! No game is truly an Elder Scrolls game without it).

2017 brought us the Housing system for free to the base game.
2018 brought us the Outfitting system for free to the base game. It also brought Jewelrycrafting and a new skill line with Summerset.

I'm seeing no indications of anything similar for 2019.

I'm 15/15 on leveled toons with lots of time put into each (8-9 trait all, fully finished at the stables, 300+ Skill Points, etc.) so I've got no interest in deleting toons for a new class. Especially not one as limited-sounding as a Necromancer. I really hope on the 15th they give some good reasons why it deserves to be a whole new class as any spell-subschool specialist would have been much more suited to a simple Skill Line.

A new boss by a different name is still just a boss, so Dragons aren't going to do anything for me.

Elsweyr might be #1 on my want-to-visit list, but by itself its still not enough to motivate me to buy a new chapter.

For me, so far its all sounding like a bunch of name-dropping without any real substance. Granted, all we've seen so far is a bit of datamining and will all need to wait until the 15th to see the first real preview, so they still have a chance to Wow me. 2019 is ESO's 5-year anniversary and they promised it had epic things in store. We'll see soon enough, but without some serious QoL stuff added to this year's list, its looking like 2019 is going to be ESO's most Meh year for me.

Faulgor

Ertosi wrote: »

I'm 15/15 on leveled toons with lots of time put into each (8-9 trait all, fully finished at the stables, 300+ Skill Points, etc.) so I've got no interest in deleting toons for a new class. Especially not one as limited-sounding as a Necromancer. I really hope on the 15th they give some good reasons why it deserves to be a whole new class as any spell-subschool specialist would have been much more suited to a simple Skill Line.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. It's impossible to get interested in Necromancers when I don't even know if I'll get to make one, which leaves me just with the zone content in this chapter. Which admittedly I'm still interested in, but it's not much for an "expansion".
Really hope the official announcement next week gives us more to look forward to.

jluchau

I said this in another thread today, but I would love to see a comprehensive gardening system. plant, maintain, harvest resources maybe even animal husbandry. So i don't have to be a hunter/gatherer. It could play into the economy and it gives me something to do in my homestead. I would prefer an intricate and detailed system where different kinds of gardens/farms were capable. Rare seeds, rare animals, maybe cross pollinating/breeding to create things. Timers that required some kind of login schedule for watering, maybe household items that improved this like automatic waterers/feeders... things to work towards.

Someday.

Ertosi

jluchau wrote: »

I said this in another thread today, but I would love to see a comprehensive gardening system. plant, maintain, harvest resources maybe even animal husbandry. So i don't have to be a hunter/gatherer. It could play into the economy and it gives me something to do in my homestead. I would prefer an intricate and detailed system where different kinds of gardens/farms were capable. Rare seeds, rare animals, maybe cross pollinating/breeding to create things. Timers that required some kind of login schedule for watering, maybe household items that improved this like automatic waterers/feeders... things to work towards.

Someday.

See, now that's some good outside-the-box thinking. Not something I considered before but it would really add some value to housing.

I did once propose a kinda-similiar idea over in an "Ideas that would be cool but will never happen" thread... Breedable Pets and Mounts. Not all of them, mind you, just those appropriate (ie just the more basic varieties; better to keep most Crown Store stuff rare and special). All that would be needed is to make Pets and Mounts only placeable in a single home, add a "breedable" tag to any mounts/pets with this mechanic, then add a check to see if two adults of a similar type (ex two senches, or two horses) are nearby in the same home. It doesn't even need to be complex enough for gender to matter. If so, and if together for X number of days, they start getting the chance to drop a runebox containing a baby (pet) version (50% chance of being the same kind as either parent). If the baby version is left in a home for Y number of days, it becomes an adult version. There are already enough matching mounts and babies in the game that something like this would be very easy to implement. It would give you something fun to do in your homes, add a new market for the various runebox babies, while also adding the desire to have more homes for more breeding space, which is a win-win for us and ZOS.

SomeDogsAreCops

@Ertosi

Ertosi wrote: »

2019 is ESO's 5-year anniversary and they promised it had epic things in store.

They probably mean that literally.

SgtSilock

I want to see more player interaction. If you want PvP you have to go to cyrodil. If you want dungeons, you queue. Where do you go to chill? Your player house.

the reason I am looking forward to WoW classic is it is going to bring back a sense of community and liveliness, we need to bring this back into ESO somehow.

Ertosi

SgtSilock wrote: »

I want to see more player interaction. If you want PvP you have to go to cyrodil. If you want dungeons, you queue. Where do you go to chill? Your player house.

the reason I am looking forward to WoW classic is it is going to bring back a sense of community and liveliness, we need to bring this back into ESO somehow.

For more player interaction, I've suggested adding a new battle mode. Allow for guilds to declare wars against each other! One guild has to declare, if the other accepts, then their players can battle each other anywhere they happen to cross paths in Tamriel. It completely avoids the issue of those who don't want to PvP being forced into it, as they get to choose what guilds they wish to be a part of. Add a system of prizes/rewards for participation; they would need a few safety checks to avoid exploiting just for prizes. They could even add a limited number of Guild Vendors, where instead of bidding gold to outright win the vendor you merely win the chance to challenge the current guild holding it by declaring war for the next week; guild with the most kills versus the other keeps it the next week, during which time they are battling the next challenger.

This would satisfy the desire many have for open world PvP while keeping it limited to those wishing to participate. For those not participating, it would still add a level of liveliness to the world around them.

Seraphayel

SomeDogsAreCops wrote: »

@Ertosi

Ertosi wrote: »

2019 is ESO's 5-year anniversary and they promised it had epic things in store.

They probably mean that literally.

100% accurate.

Tandor

SgtSilock wrote: »

I want to see more player interaction. If you want PvP you have to go to cyrodil. If you want dungeons, you queue. Where do you go to chill? Your player house.

the reason I am looking forward to WoW classic is it is going to bring back a sense of community and liveliness, we need to bring this back into ESO somehow.

Reduce the number of guilds you can belong to to one, and open the trading system to everyone. Drop the restricted-interest class representatives and open class forums headed by a developer class lead who communicates with the players. Fix Cyrodiil performance.

Job done.

Khivas_Carrick

Faulgor wrote: »

Expect ESO Chapters to introduce things like new game systems, new classes, and a ton of new content.
- Matt Firor, February 2017

System updates are those that add entirely new systems to the way you can play your existing characters, not merely widening their capabilities, but adding a new layer.
Classes do not fit that description (Firor obviously also makes a distinction), because they cannot be used with existing characters, and merely widen the available class roster instead of deepening the character system itself.

Previous updates that could be considered new systems fall into four broad categories:
QoL: Transmutation and Jewelry Crafting make it easier to put the gear sets you want together, but they don't add new functionality.
Cosmetic: The Outfit system and Housing, while fun and welcome, don't add much to gameplay besides gold sinks and Crown Store items.
Gameplay modes: Battlegrounds are the only addition that comes to mind here. Another one could be horse racing, which has been brought up since beta as a possible update.
Character enhancing: The Champion system is probably the last one we got in this category, and it has been years since then. If you want to be generous you could include the Psijic skill line, but that was barely a drop.

With the introduction of Necromancers, this chapter once again doesn't give us meaningful character enhancing game systems, and I'm afraid after spellcrafting has apparently been scrapped for good, we will not see any for the rest of this game's lifetime. I, and I suspect many others, wouldn't be so unhappy with new classes if we didn't feel they came at the cost of system updates we could use to develop the characters we've played for years. Outside of constant balance updates and new outfits styles, they are virtually unchanged.

I want to make the case that ESO has been lacking in this category, character enhancing system updates, for quite some time, despite them being some of the most requested features.
Including, but not limited to:

• Spellcrafting
• New weapon skills (Unarmed, Spears, Crossbows, staffs of more magical schools, etc)
• Religious/Cult affiliation
• Secondary classes
• New tier of skill/class morphs
• Champion system overhaul
• Difficulty setting with reward systems

When chapters were first introduced, we were told that this format was better to add such new game systems than smaller DLC, but we are closing in on our 3rd chapter release, and no such system update is to be seen.
Is ZOS still interested in developing such systems? Are the players even still interested, or have they become content with more of the same?

The things I see most likely to happen are:

New Weapon Skill Lines. I'd like to see Unarmed and 1H/Spell added as the two new weapon skill likes, with Spears added as a new weapon type for 2H and maaaybe Crossbows added as a new weapon type for Bows, with Spears adding crit and Crossbows added Armor Pen.

Difficulty Settings with rewards/bounties. This would be neat idea as well, plus it'll be easy to implement for literally everything across the game. Overland too easy? Suddenly everything is Elite. Vet Dungeons too simple? Not anymore!

Things I see that would be cool but unlikely to happen:

Champ System Overhaul. This one could be cool, but also hard to implement as you'd have to rebalance the entire game almost around it, and as we've seen, ZoS works slow as hell lol

New tier of Skill Morphs. This one tbh makes sense, but would also kinda be the most ambitious to undertake. This would either be new morphs for morphs or a 3rd option for morphing as opposed to the original two, and there are A LOT of skills to look through for this, so tbh, while possible, Im' not sure they'd do it.

SomeDogsAreCops

SgtSilock wrote: »

I want to see more player interaction. If you want PvP you have to go to cyrodil. If you want dungeons, you queue. Where do you go to chill? Your player house.

the reason I am looking forward to WoW classic is it is going to bring back a sense of community and liveliness, we need to bring this back into ESO somehow.

One Tamriel damaged this a lot. Having difficult areas required people to reach out to nearby players and asking to group, also having to go to dungeons and creating parties was good too, it used to be the same way in WOW and when LFG gets implemented they just turn into mindless drones. At least trials can't be queued.

paulychan

Raising the item cp cap would be a neat system called Exodus, so you may be on to something.

Khivas_Carrick

paulychan wrote: »

Raising the item cp cap would be a neat system called Exodus, so you may be on to something.

Oh, that's another not terrible idea.

Get one or even two more tiers from Rubedite/bedo/ash/silk for cp 250 and 500.

jainiadral

Honestly, I feel like I'm drowning in skill lines and game systems.

Krayl

Raising the item CP cap is sorta pointless when you're talking about a scaling system where the numbers are relative. All you're doing is asking ZOS to make everyone some busywork refarming gear, and making it that much more of a climb for newer players to participate in "end game" activities.

Ertosi

Krayl wrote: »

Raising the item CP cap is sorta pointless when you're talking about a scaling system where the numbers are relative. All you're doing is asking ZOS to make everyone some busywork refarming gear, and making it that much more of a climb for newer players to participate in "end game" activities.

Indeed. There's no way in Oblivion I'm farming all of my equipment sets again. If they ever raise the item level cap, I'll be looking for a new favorite game.

Cireous

• Spellcrafting
  SPELLCRAFTING OR RIOT
  
• New weapon skills (Unarmed, Spears, Crossbows, staffs of more magical schools magical one handers)
  5 YEARS AND NO NEW WEAPONS?! SO TIRED OF STAFF, SO, SO TIRED.
  
• Religious/Cult affiliation
  FUN!
  
• Secondary classes
  OH HELL YES.
  
• New tier of skill/class morphs
  HOW DO WE NOT HAVE THESE ALREADY?
  
• Champion system overhaul
  YES YES YES YES
  
• Difficulty setting with reward systems
  Dragons maybe? WHO AM I KIDDING, PLEASE DO THIS BECAUSE OVERLAND BOREDOM IS SOUL CRUSHING.

Faulgor

So, Rich confirmed that Spellcrafting is not on their roadmap anymore at this time, and there's also nothing for 2019 that would fit this game system category.
I really had hopes that after a system-weak 2017 and 2018, they were working on something big. Turns out it was just dragons.

zaria

Tandor wrote: »

SgtSilock wrote: »

I want to see more player interaction. If you want PvP you have to go to cyrodil. If you want dungeons, you queue. Where do you go to chill? Your player house.

the reason I am looking forward to WoW classic is it is going to bring back a sense of community and liveliness, we need to bring this back into ESO somehow.

Reduce the number of guilds you can belong to to one, and open the trading system to everyone. Drop the restricted-interest class representatives and open class forums headed by a developer class lead who communicates with the players. Fix Cyrodiil performance.

Job done.

Now do you select an PvE or PvP guild.
Also you have to leave your guild to test out an new one.
That was a problem for me in WOW, leave the very nice but too small guild and roll a dice or stay.
Ended up stopped playing.

Finviuswe

We will if people understand that you can't compare this game to WoW and the budget is nothing to compare to WoW and you really are taking apples and oranges at that point, aren't you? lol.

Faulgor

The more I think about it, the more I wish they had added necromancy as a secondary class for Sorcerers.
Something like being able to chose between becoming a Necromancer or a Spellsword once you reach level 50 with your Sorcerer. Templars get Crusader or Pilgrim, Nightblades Assassin or Witchhunter, etc. That way we could have had Necromancers, and finally some character progression.

It's really baffling how other, downright archaic MMOs manage(d) to add several tiers of new classes, and ESO's skill additions over 5 years can fit into a shoebox. I just don't understand why.