Damage in PvP

Thicclady

>Shield 5k
>Focused Aim 10.2k on full impen
>No CP BG

This is like 1.5 times damage of Sloads, why no complaining? Maybe balance this stuff a bit.

http://i65.tinypic.com/2i9me1l.jpg

VaranisArano

People will always complain about the stuff that kills them, whatever it is.

And I see plenty of people complaining about Snipe, at least when it glitches.

But at least the player actually had to use a skill to hit you, unlike Sloads which procced on cooldown with practically any damage including on itself before the nerf so everyone and their mother was wearing it...

Brutusmax1mus

Lol no one complaining about snipe? We playing the same game?

Thicclady

VaranisArano wrote: »

People will always complain about the stuff that kills them, whatever it is.

No. But when you have very high range ability which damage is more than anything else in no-cp, thats something to complain.

NuarBlack

If you are getting hit that hard then you probably only have 10k resists and would get hit for 12k by frags from my spell strat sorc. Snipe hits most my builds for 4-5k. Occasionally see a 7k on a LA build in there but again those builds also see that from beatles, frags, assassins wills, etc. Too.

People should die. Healing and defense are actually slightly too powerful right now even in no cp. Team with a templar healing has the advantage big time right now.

Jameliel

What were your health and resists at?

Waffennacht

20k snipe BG tooltips are a thing. (Yes, this means without any crit damage meaning crit resistance won't be a factor)

PhoenixGrey

You could run 20k resists and get hit that hard. You dont have much crit resists in no cp and snipe is a hard hitting guaranteed crit

validifyedneb18_ESO

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

You could run 20k resists and get hit that hard. You dont have much crit resists in no cp and snipe is a hard hitting guaranteed crit

Id add to this that really, the only reason I see why anyone would bother with crit resist is to counter these builds and these builds alone.

Edit: Not even counter, just to survive the first few hits in the hope you can get to them before they click cloak.

Thicclady

NuarBlack wrote: »

If you are getting hit that hard then you probably only have 10k resists and would get hit for 12k by frags from my spell strat sorc.

No. I get hit about 7k frag crits. With good luck.

Jameliel wrote: »

What were your health and resists at?

What ever templar has resists, with full impen gear

Its funny that you guys are saying its my gear and not OP Focused Aim

NuarBlack

Thicclady wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

If you are getting hit that hard then you probably only have 10k resists and would get hit for 12k by frags from my spell strat sorc.

No. I get hit about 7k frag crits. With good luck.

Jameliel wrote: »

What were your health and resists at?

What ever templar has resists, with full impen gear

Its funny that you guys are saying its my gear and not OP Focused Aim

There are less sorcs built for pure damage than bowblades is the thing so yes you would get hit that hard by my sorc or one running spinners+spell strat if you are rocking only LA build and let your buffs fall off. Good chance you were fractured too to see that. That's why questions are asked because combat is dynamic in that way. I know 10k snipes are possible, not saying they aren't, just that other builds are capable of similar damage. I have a bow toon and yeah it hits some players for 9-10k others for 3k only.

Also templars don't have a set amount of resistance. Armor, jewelry traits, set bonuses all matter big time. This makes me think you really don't understand the game much at all.

Thicclady

NuarBlack wrote: »

Thicclady wrote: »

NuarBlack wrote: »

If you are getting hit that hard then you probably only have 10k resists and would get hit for 12k by frags from my spell strat sorc.

No. I get hit about 7k frag crits. With good luck.

Jameliel wrote: »

What were your health and resists at?

What ever templar has resists, with full impen gear

Its funny that you guys are saying its my gear and not OP Focused Aim

There are less sorcs built for pure damage than bowblades is the thing so yes you would get hit that hard by my sorc or one running spinners+spell strat if you are rocking only LA build and let your buffs fall off. Good chance you were fractured too to see that. That's why questions are asked because combat is dynamic in that way. I know 10k snipes are possible, not saying they aren't, just that other builds are capable of similar damage. I have a bow toon and yeah it hits some players for 9-10k others for 3k only.

Also templars don't have a set amount of resistance. Armor, jewelry traits, set bonuses all matter big time. This makes me think you really don't understand the game much at all.

haha. I know very well what kind of damage I get, and when I compare snipe damage to anything else, it is higher. Do you understand that simple sentence? Also we not talking about your sorcerer now Im sure it can do 5 million damage

Mayrael

As someone who played hundreds of hours of PvP as a MagSorc, MagPlar and MagBlade I can tell that my sorc frags would hit your Templar for 9-10k. Assassin's Will was already nerfed to be easier to dodge, it's not spamable like snipe is, even frags are far easier to proc than this skill. It's hard hitting skill because it's harder to use than the rest, it's travel time is much higher and sound is very easy to notice.

Crixus8000

NuarBlack wrote: »

If you are getting hit that hard then you probably only have 10k resists and would get hit for 12k by frags from my spell strat sorc. Snipe hits most my builds for 4-5k. Occasionally see a 7k on a LA build in there but again those builds also see that from beatles, frags, assassins wills, etc. Too.

People should die. Healing and defense are actually slightly too powerful right now even in no cp. Team with a templar healing has the advantage big time right now.

I often get hit over 10k snipes and I have 28k resists and full impen. The skill hits harder than anything other than 1 or 2 ults.

And imo damage is more overtuned than defence. 23k zaans compared to defensive monster sets ? 10k snipes. 2k bleed ticks melting people. The only times defence seems overpowered is when someone is using a pure stat build, but most people are using cheesy setups with master axes, proc sets and other things that do much more than defensive counterparts can.

Skander

The thing is: Dark flare has the same mechanic as focused aim, why then it's not as cancerous?

Becouse Dark flare isn't worth it as a bow. Bow gives so much buffs for a playstyle which punishes you for being outnumbered but rewards you for outnumbering. Which in any game is moronic.

Thicclady

Skander wrote: »

The thing is: Dark flare has the same mechanic as focused aim, why then it's not as cancerous?

Becouse Dark flare isn't worth it as a bow. Bow gives so much buffs for a playstyle which punishes you for being outnumbered but rewards you for outnumbering. Which in any game is moronic.

Focused Aim has 7 meters (!) longer range. And Its harder to see.

While Snipe is airborn, they have time to shoot other projectile to hit pretty surely also, bows are practically undetectable in air. When you at middle of the flag lets say and theres 4 people fighting there, its impossible listen to any sound queus especially if in Discord.

BNOC

Skander wrote: »

The thing is: Dark flare has the same mechanic as focused aim, why then it's not as cancerous?

Becouse Dark flare isn't worth it as a bow. Bow gives so much buffs for a playstyle which punishes you for being outnumbered but rewards you for outnumbering. Which in any game is moronic.

Because dark flare isn't broke.

I agree the zerg-catering mechanics like snipe are moronic but to say that they're at a disadvantage when outnumbered is simply wrong - They're no more disadvantaged than everyone else nowadays with these very low TTK's (Especially NB snipers who are at no disadvantage)

The issue withthe playstyle is, I'd guess at least 70% of snipe spammers (At least the ones I see) are NB's - Who of course, instantly cloak as soon as they've shot a couple arrows or see that you've hit them with a single dot and only come out again when they feel safe and ready to snipe again.

They're not really at a disadvantage against more numbers, they snipe from obscene ranges, get consistent desync kills then cloak off to a new position, or simply if there's too many people around, get their kill then cloak and stay hidden until they move on.

Moonsorrow

Crixus8000 wrote: »

The only times defence seems overpowered is when someone is using a pure stat build, but most people are using cheesy setups with master axes, proc sets and other things that do much more than defensive counterparts can.

I feel old for using only a stat build on my stamsorc.. it works still, but have to work like mad to be effective and to deal with stuff like Snipes and snares now that forced to being much slower than used to be.

When on dk can keep Wings up, on warden can keep Shimmering up, as nb can Cloak incoming snipes, as templar just block and overheal..as a stamsorc, well, you know how it is right now.

Still, not want anything nerfed because we need stuff that hit hard and get kills, or whole pvp would be just stalemates. People dont wanna die and not accept anything that kills them as a legit skill/thing/tactic.

Crixus8000

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

The only times defence seems overpowered is when someone is using a pure stat build, but most people are using cheesy setups with master axes, proc sets and other things that do much more than defensive counterparts can.

I feel old for using only a stat build on my stamsorc.. it works still, but have to work like mad to be effective and to deal with stuff like Snipes and snares now that forced to being much slower than used to be.

When on dk can keep Wings up, on warden can keep Shimmering up, as nb can Cloak incoming snipes, as templar just block and overheal..as a stamsorc, well, you know how it is right now.

Still, not want anything nerfed because we need stuff that hit hard and get kills, or whole pvp would be just stalemates. People dont wanna die and not accept anything that kills them as a legit skill/thing/tactic.

Ye lol I use a full stat build on my stamsorc too, although damage is low to make up for the speed loss and huge sustain loss. I don't want snipe nerfed, although I found it very annoying in this patch since I move so damn slow I can't hardly los to avoid it. I would like the dysnc bugs to be fixed fast though, and maybe an easier way to notice it, in 1vx it can be pretty hard to counter once 2 sneaky snipes have landed on your head and your under half hp.

Thicclady

Oh look, 11k

http://i67.tinypic.com/11b86ea.jpg

Zeromaz

Waaah wah waaah

mursie

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

Zeromaz

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

This man is not only extremely good looking, but he’s also right

Thicclady

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

Please, do not say that it any harder to spam bow than any other classes abilities

Thicclady

It all comes down to, is it or is it not OP for to do 11k damage on non CP pvp with one button

Moonsorrow

Crixus8000 wrote: »

Moonsorrow wrote: »

Crixus8000 wrote: »

The only times defence seems overpowered is when someone is using a pure stat build, but most people are using cheesy setups with master axes, proc sets and other things that do much more than defensive counterparts can.

I feel old for using only a stat build on my stamsorc.. it works still, but have to work like mad to be effective and to deal with stuff like Snipes and snares now that forced to being much slower than used to be.

When on dk can keep Wings up, on warden can keep Shimmering up, as nb can Cloak incoming snipes, as templar just block and overheal..as a stamsorc, well, you know how it is right now.

Still, not want anything nerfed because we need stuff that hit hard and get kills, or whole pvp would be just stalemates. People dont wanna die and not accept anything that kills them as a legit skill/thing/tactic.

Ye lol I use a full stat build on my stamsorc too, although damage is low to make up for the speed loss and huge sustain loss. I don't want snipe nerfed, although I found it very annoying in this patch since I move so damn slow I can't hardly los to avoid it. I would like the dysnc bugs to be fixed fast though, and maybe an easier way to notice it, in 1vx it can be pretty hard to counter once 2 sneaky snipes have landed on your head and your under half hp.

Yeah.. right now can easily take out those archer builds if 1vs1 against them, easily take out the tanky melee builds if 1vs1, but.. the fact is, most often you are against tanky melee builds that have buddies spamming snipe at you from range at same time. Only thing that works right now is if can dodge roll around to LoS and i feel the Battlefield Acrobat set is nice for that for sustain. But yeah, a LOT of work compared to other specs if wanna play with stamsorc haha.

Vapirko

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

It’s generally fairly easy. Snipe deals a ton of damage, draining shot is a really good CC and the heal is huge. Snipe draining shot assassins will gg. Or just stealth up close, snipe and incap. The close range of BGs makes it quite simple to kill steal and people are squishier so a CC kncoback like draining shot really messes people up. If you have a good team who can engage the enemy well you’re basically just free to pick people off. Stam sorcs and spin to win are your only real enemies. I literally took my argonian bow build into Cyro just for kicks and was able to 1/2vX a group of 7 AD. I’ve played that build a total of maybe 5 times and never play stamblade. I’m not saying they were good players, but the power of stealth and snipe combined with the stambalde kit is pretty cheesy. I get that it’s really weak in some situations but it’s also really really strong and there isn’t much in between. Also using spin to win as justification for snipe isn’t any kind of argument at all. They’re both silly skills that promote one button spam.

jediodyn_ESO

Vapirko wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

It’s generally fairly easy. Snipe deals a ton of damage, draining shot is a really good CC and the heal is huge. Snipe draining shot assassins will gg. Or just stealth up close, snipe and incap. The close range of BGs makes it quite simple to kill steal and people are squishier so a CC kncoback like draining shot really messes people up. If you have a good team who can engage the enemy well you’re basically just free to pick people off. Stam sorcs and spin to win are your only real enemies. I literally took my argonian bow build into Cyro just for kicks and was able to 1/2vX a group of 7 AD. I’ve played that build a total of maybe 5 times and never play stamblade. I’m not saying they were good players, but the power of stealth and snipe combined with the stambalde kit is pretty cheesy. I get that it’s really weak in some situations but it’s also really really strong and there isn’t much in between. Also using spin to win as justification for snipe isn’t any kind of argument at all. They’re both silly skills that promote one button spam.

What you are saying only works against poorly geared or poorly organized teams without experience. Bowtard in BGs is a waste of space with the very limited exception of the players who know the very best places to get the best angles and who use shadow image like a pro.

Zeromaz

Vapirko wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

It’s generally fairly easy. Snipe deals a ton of damage, draining shot is a really good CC and the heal is huge. Snipe draining shot assassins will gg. Or just stealth up close, snipe and incap. The close range of BGs makes it quite simple to kill steal and people are squishier so a CC kncoback like draining shot really messes people up. If you have a good team who can engage the enemy well you’re basically just free to pick people off. Stam sorcs and spin to win are your only real enemies. I literally took my argonian bow build into Cyro just for kicks and was able to 1/2vX a group of 7 AD. I’ve played that build a total of maybe 5 times and never play stamblade. I’m not saying they were good players, but the power of stealth and snipe combined with the stambalde kit is pretty cheesy. I get that it’s really weak in some situations but it’s also really really strong and there isn’t much in between. Also using spin to win as justification for snipe isn’t any kind of argument at all. They’re both silly skills that promote one button spam.

I don’t know how you can say this when you haven’t played it in any competitive setting.

Thicclady

Zeromaz wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

It’s generally fairly easy. Snipe deals a ton of damage, draining shot is a really good CC and the heal is huge. Snipe draining shot assassins will gg. Or just stealth up close, snipe and incap. The close range of BGs makes it quite simple to kill steal and people are squishier so a CC kncoback like draining shot really messes people up. If you have a good team who can engage the enemy well you’re basically just free to pick people off. Stam sorcs and spin to win are your only real enemies. I literally took my argonian bow build into Cyro just for kicks and was able to 1/2vX a group of 7 AD. I’ve played that build a total of maybe 5 times and never play stamblade. I’m not saying they were good players, but the power of stealth and snipe combined with the stambalde kit is pretty cheesy. I get that it’s really weak in some situations but it’s also really really strong and there isn’t much in between. Also using spin to win as justification for snipe isn’t any kind of argument at all. They’re both silly skills that promote one button spam.

I don’t know how you can say this when you haven’t played it in any competitive setting.

What you are saying only works against poorly geared or poorly organized teams without experience. Bowtard in BGs is a waste of space with the very limited exception of the players who know the very best places to get the best angles and who use shadow image like a pro.
[/quote]


What are you talking about LOL. There is no "competitive setting" in BG:s, leaderboards are not ratings, they grinding results in BG:s. And what you saying just does not make ANY sense whatsoever, bow is very good weapon against anything that happens in BG (capping, transporting ball, making damage and kills on DM). If by "competitive setting" you talking about 3 teams charge eachother spamming whirlwinds and dragon leaps and who ever lives wins, then ok.

Vapirko

Zeromaz wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

mursie wrote: »

if you think bow builds are easy and broken - you should try playing one in bg's. let me know how it goes. also - please make sure to post your teammates chat to you. I'm sure every bg team out there would rather have your bowtard than a DK/Warden/Templar with DB/Spin2Win because of how easy and broken OP you'll be.

It’s generally fairly easy. Snipe deals a ton of damage, draining shot is a really good CC and the heal is huge. Snipe draining shot assassins will gg. Or just stealth up close, snipe and incap. The close range of BGs makes it quite simple to kill steal and people are squishier so a CC kncoback like draining shot really messes people up. If you have a good team who can engage the enemy well you’re basically just free to pick people off. Stam sorcs and spin to win are your only real enemies. I literally took my argonian bow build into Cyro just for kicks and was able to 1/2vX a group of 7 AD. I’ve played that build a total of maybe 5 times and never play stamblade. I’m not saying they were good players, but the power of stealth and snipe combined with the stambalde kit is pretty cheesy. I get that it’s really weak in some situations but it’s also really really strong and there isn’t much in between. Also using spin to win as justification for snipe isn’t any kind of argument at all. They’re both silly skills that promote one button spam.

I don’t know how you can say this when you haven’t played it in any competitive setting.

Yeah what exactly defines a competative setting in this game? Skilled, evenly matched/sized groups? A high end 1v1 of even skill? Well sure, in that setting a lot of popular play styles are going to fall by the wayside and there’s going to be a separate meta for that type of setting. But for the other 90% of PvP bow builds can be quite successful and it’s not that hard. A very new or mediocre player can put on a few good bow sets, hide in the shadows, and easily get off a few snipes and probably lag out a better player. Bonus points if the player is already involved in a 1v1 or 1vX and this bow build doesn’t even have to assume any risk in trying to attack. Put that same new player in a class that can’t deliver a stun and major defile from 48 meters and can’t stealth, and the risk will be much greater and they’re not going to be able to get a 1 button kill. Honestly, if they want to balance bow skills so that they’re less cheesy in pug settings/ganks and more balanced at a higher level of play I am all for that. I’d probably even spend more time on one because it is fun to play Legolas style, I wil give you that. Nothing quite like weaving in and out of a group using stealth as they get confused and ripping melee range bow combos with incap strike. I had a great time doing it. Also, don’t misunderstand me. My problem is not with bows alone. In reality bows aren’t all that great by themselves. It’s more to do with bows paired with stealth and once again, all the bugs that come with it. I don’t know how people still justify being able to unleash a series of shots that carry a CC from stealth, major defile and damage equal to that of most ultimates, as balanced. It just isn’t. The fact that bow builds may or may not be able to hold up at a higher level of gameplay does not mean that they’re balanced. And again, this is bowblades I’m talking about specially. Other classes do not have such easy access to stealth, or as many on demand buffs to single target damage. I would also say that stealth in general is too accessible, and honestly think people shouldn’t be able to attack from normal crouched stealth. Because right now you cannot buff/balance the bow due to its synergy with stamblade abilities, and that prevents bow builds from being made viable in higher levels of gameplay. In my opinion.