Are you happy with the way Zos handles cheating/exploiting and bots?

Waylander07

There has been a lot of arguing in both the forum and in game chat on the subject of cheating.
Many argue that if you think that someone is cheating you are just looking for an excuse for getting beat. The normal rant is “so you think that anybody who beats you must be cheating”. It’s a strange response because I have never seen or heard anybody claim this. I personally think that cheating is happening in ESO and has defiantly happened in the past. Let me be clear I am not claiming that everybody who kills me is cheating or that cheating is widespread because I don’t believe that.

For quite some time I have noticed a certain player (ex-Emperor) performing like he has superpowers, lightning fast able to leap great distances and even appear at the other end of a keep in the blink of an eye (not undo because he had come from the other direction).

This really bothered me because I suffer from M.E (Chronic fatigue syndrome) which makes playing a real challenge some days. On a bad day I forget my keys and perform poorly which is frustrating for me. I am housebound so don’t have much of a life to be honest. I may not be a great or even a good player, but I think that I’m at least decent which is something that I am proud of because of my disability.
I have never been tempted to cheat so when I see a player who does (like the player who spammed ultimate’s or the ex-Emperor) it bothers me. I have worked hard at this game to get to the skill level I am at now so when someone has an unfair advantage because they don’t want to put the work in to get better, I think that sucks. Cheats in my opinion are cowards whose egos can’t accept that they are not the best.

I decided that I was going to do something to expose this ex Emperor and record him in action. This turned out to be more difficult than I thought but yesterday I finally managed it. I then went to report him but found no place to upload my recording. So, I uploaded my video to YouTube and added the URL to the ticket of complaint and waited for a response. This is what I got …

The dwellers of Tamriel thank you for taking time from your adventures to report this offense. Maintaining the integrity of the land is a priority. We will investigate this matter and take appropriate action.

To protect individual privacy, we do not disclose the outcome of our investigation.

Please also be aware that you can add players whose behavior you find objectionable to the ignore list. To do this, open your contacts list (default: O) and click on the "No Entry" icon in the upper right corner. Now you have the option to add players. You can also do this by right-clicking on a player's name and choosing "Ignore". Once this is done, messages from the player in question will no longer be able to reach you.

If you are playing on a console, please contact Sony / Microsoft directly for more information on how to ignore or report a player who you feel is in violation of Sony or Microsoft’s Terms of Service.

Thank you for your continued interest and support!

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

So, it looks like I wont even know the outcome of their investigation because they want to protect the accused players individual privacy. Here’s a question? how many people actually use their real names in this game. I have friends in this game and I only know their character name.
There is also the issue of transparency, if I was wrong about the player cheating, I would like to know because if I don’t and continue to see this player use his super skills then my only conclusion is that ZOS are not interested in dealing with players who cheat.

Waylander07

Just to explain my condition a bit... If I watch tv or listen to an audio book I fall asleep, reading is no longer an option because I can’t concentrate on what I am reading. Walking a short distance leaves me feeling like I have run a marathon. I can spend weeks in bed because I am to tired to get up. For some reason playing ESO keeps me awake though it can be frustrating because of things like forgetting the keys. Most people don’t understand what it is like to have M.E so i though that i would ex[plain and no I’m not looking for sympathy lol.

lagrue

Biased po-

Wait, where's the poll?

But anyway, that is pretty much a standard everywhere in the world... only when it comes to high profiles crimes like murder etc. do you generally see investigative results shared.

Companies, Workplaces, Schools... almost all institutions when dealing with discipline do not release the results of investigations for various legal reasons. They won't tell you if they find your claims valid or not - and they won't tell you what they did as a result of those findings. They are only mandated to assure you that the appropriate actions are being taken, and there is a plethora of reasons for it, including a legal denial of liability.

There are other reasons though, bordering on "Name and Shame." For example if ZOS says they handled it, and you don't like their answer or method of handling it, you could then escalate the situation leading to all kinds of bad scenarios for the player in question, and ZOS themselves. People have been harassed, hacked, DDOSed, threatened and stalked over video games before and I don't think ZOS would want to seem as though their response was helping something escalate to that level. It's just a hypothetical, and I'm not saying you personally would do these things - but somebody would, and that's what ZOS is (trying to) protecting against.

It certainly goes beyond just protecting the accused individual though, it's a safety measure for everybody involved.

Waylander07

lagrue wrote: »

Biased po-

Wait, where's the poll?

But anyway, that is pretty much a standard everywhere in the world... only when it comes to high profiles crimes like murder etc. do you generally see investigative results shared.

Companies, Workplaces, Schools... almost all institutions when dealing with discipline do not release the results of investigations for various legal reasons. They won't tell you if they find your claims valid or not - and they won't tell you what they did as a result of those findings. They are only mandated to assure you that the appropriate actions are being taken, and there is a plethora of reasons for it, including a legal denial of liability.

There are other reasons though, bordering on "Name and Shame." For example if ZOS says they handled it, and you don't like their answer or method of handling it, you could then escalate the situation leading to all kinds of bad scenarios for the player in question, and ZOS themselves. People have been harassed, hacked, DDOSed, threatened and stalked over video games before and I don't think ZOS would want to seem as though their response was helping something escalate to that level. It's just a hypothetical, and I'm not saying you personally would do these things - but somebody would, and that's what ZOS is (trying to) protecting against.

It certainly goes beyond just protecting the accused individual though, it's a safety measure for everybody involved.

I already know the player but am not into harassing him or anybody else anyway. Telling me the outcome of their investigation gives transparency one way or the other. Not knowing leads to frustration and a lack of trust in ZOS which is more likely to escalate the situation in my opinion.

While I don't really expect them to name and shame the person just communicating that people have been caught breaking the rules and have been dealt with would send out a message to those that use cheating/exploiting and bots that there is consequences. I have heard so many times that there is no point in reporting anything because nothing will be done.

I am pretty sure detecting people who cheat is not high on ZOS's priority list (player I mentioned has been doing his superman act for ages). This being the case means that they are relying on people reporting on possible cheating which wont happen if most feel that there is no point in doing so.

Some transparency is needed if there is to be any trust which in my opinion is severely lacking at the moment.
And yea I should have put in a poll lol

dazee

Waylander07 wrote: »

Just to explain my condition a bit... If I watch tv or listen to an audio book I fall asleep, reading is no longer an option because I can’t concentrate on what I am reading. Walking a short distance leaves me feeling like I have run a marathon. I can spend weeks in bed because I am to tired to get up. For some reason playing ESO keeps me awake though it can be frustrating because of things like forgetting the keys. Most people don’t understand what it is like to have M.E so i though that i would ex[plain and no I’m not looking for sympathy lol.

I think I can kinda understand since I have suffered from advanced stages of heart failure in the past, which had to be corrected more than once with surgical procedures, when I was in those stages I felt the same way.

MajBludd

Zos has never been transparent with their punishments or their lack of.

If you report a bot or anything they send back, "if we don't hear back from you in 4 days we will consider this matter resolved."

Why do I need to get back to you about 6 bots I reported? Makes no sense.

Then you get no follow up to your report. So you are left wondering did you waste your time and does ZoS even do anything to these players?

Simple solution would be an automated report to say something like this, "Yes we found this person to be cheating/botting and the account has been removed."

Simple, if they can set up a bot to receive reports what's so hard about a follow up report?

Tigerseye

It is definitely happening - there have been videos posted on Youtube, from the cheaters themselves, showing it.

...and no, I don't think Zos are doing enough about it, but this kind of follows on from my previous comment about "you get what you pay for".

In this case, you overpay for certain very specific things and don't pay anything at all for what really counts; so, it's not surprising that the latter is put on the back burner, somewhat.

I am also very sorry to hear about your illness.

MajBludd

If they can run scripted programs and not be detected by zos what else can they do?

Sure they might get reported and might get banned, but why didn't zos system detect this?
Why, idk, but I've heard people talking about a bypass to zos system. If it's true, I have no clue, but it makes sense.

Waylander07

MajBludd wrote: »

Zos has never been transparent with their punishments or their lack of.

If you report a bot or anything they send back, "if we don't hear back from you in 4 days we will consider this matter resolved."

Why do I need to get back to you about 6 bots I reported? Makes no sense.

Then you get no follow up to your report. So you are left wondering did you waste your time and does ZoS even do anything to these players?

Simple solution would be an automated report to say something like this, "Yes we found this person to be cheating/botting and the account has been removed."

Simple, if they can set up a bot to receive reports what's so hard about a follow up report?

I agree, to be honest their reply left me feeling a bit deflated as I worked really hard to get proof of what I was talking about and now I find out I wont even know what happens. I left them this response …

It would be helpful if we got some information as to what your investigation turned up. Most players think that it is a waste of time even reporting this kind of thing as nothing will be done.

What i will say is that if this is still happening with this player in a couple of weeks time i will take it that he is not cheating. If this is the case then i will see no harm in posting the video in the forum to show others this players wonderful skills.
Transparency is needed in ESO as players are starting to lose faith in certain issues ever being resolved.

MajBludd

The sad thing is you'll probably never get a response @waylander and as I stated in another thread, they will just purchase another account and be right back.

Makes you really feel like all the trouble you go through to aid zos, and their lack of detection, is all a big waste of time.

Waylander07

MajBludd wrote: »

The sad thing is you'll probably never get a response @waylander and as I stated in another thread, they will just purchase another account and be right back.

Makes you really feel like all the trouble you go through to aid zos, and their lack of detection, is all a big waste of time.

I agree sadly

MajBludd

Good luck @waylander07, in game and with your health issues.

Waylander07

MajBludd wrote: »

Good luck @waylander07, in game and with your health issues.

Thanks MajBludd , appreciated

Tandor

I've played multiplayer online games since '97 and I haven't encountered a single developer who will give feedback on a ticket in relation to action on another player's personal account. Fast forward from '97 to '19 and they have the additional matter of data protection legislation to consider. It simply isn't going to happen.

Good luck anyway with the health issues, @Waylander07 , I'd suggest in those circumstances just focusing on having fun with your game and not worrying over what other players are doing. Sometimes easier said than done of course, but try not to be wound up by things outside your control.

laksikus

your exposure of this noncheating ex emperor will not lead to any ban. cos the vid you submitted doesnt show any cheating.

MajBludd

@laksikus so let the people at zos determine that. Nobody is guilty til they are found to be and to expect other players to not report something suspicious is a bit ridiculous.
If he isn't cheating why worry about it?

Waylander07

laksikus wrote: »

your exposure of this noncheating ex emperor will not lead to any ban. cos the vid you submitted doesnt show any cheating.

Amazing how you can come to that conclusion without seeing the video lol, but I will leave that to the devs to decide rather than going by your opinion.

Maybe I will post the video at some point and you can explain how its possible to leap nearly half the width of the keep in a single bound without cheating or how he can move so fast.

laksikus

amazing what you can get up to if you just search for waylander07 in youtube

EDIT after you edited your own post:
I explained already what he did in the other thread
I said what he does to leaps around the keep and how he suddenly "teleports".

laksikus

MajBludd wrote: »

@laksikus so let the people at zos determine that. Nobody is guilty til they are found to be and to expect other players to not report something suspicious is a bit ridiculous.
If he isn't cheating why worry about it?

cos its a bad habit. instead of l2p. noobs just come to forum and cry about thing they dont understand. reporting people too often about non relevant non cheated stuff to ZOS about cheating. does not only lead to harressment against the accused people but alos takes away ressources form ZOS to do different stuff or banning real botters/cheaters

Waylander07

laksikus wrote: »

amazing what you can get up to if you just search for waylander07 in youtube

EDIT after you edited your own post:
I explained already what he did in the other thread
I said what he does to leaps around the keep and how he suddenly "teleports".

Please explain it again for us noobs in this thread

MajBludd

Somethings looked suspicious in that video. But I can't see much to say for certain he is cheating, if that is the video in question.

Looks like a speed build using invisible pots. One thing I noticed is how he "flies"when he starts running.
I have had this happen to me on a few occasions with a speed build.
It's almost as if you are in neutral then you take off with a jump and move a bit faster than normal for a fraction of a second.

laksikus

Waylander07 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

amazing what you can get up to if you just search for waylander07 in youtube

EDIT after you edited your own post:
I explained already what he did in the other thread
I said what he does to leaps around the keep and how he suddenly "teleports".

Please explain it again for us noobs in this thread

bunny hopping and invisibility pots

5 words to explain a thousand word starting post ,)

lagrue

Waylander07 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

your exposure of this noncheating ex emperor will not lead to any ban. cos the vid you submitted doesnt show any cheating.

Amazing how you can come to that conclusion without seeing the video lol, but I will leave that to the devs to decide rather than going by your opinion.

It's not hard to find the video mate.... it took me 10 seconds to find lol

His movement looks normal for a max speed build... however what happens at 0:44 in the video is highly suspect, and does look like cheating to me.

Certainly doesn't look like somebody bunny hopping with invis pots unless there's some bug that allows them to instant trasmit across the keep from that.

Waylander07

MajBludd wrote: »

Somethings looked suspicious in that video. But I can't see much to say for certain he is cheating, if that is the video in question.

Looks like a speed build using invisible pots. One thing I noticed is how he "flies"when he starts running.
I have had this happen to me on a few occasions with a speed build.
It's almost as if you are in neutral then you take off with a jumplan and move a bit faster than normal for a fraction of a second.

Watch when the video 45 secs in, you can see the damage over time missing him even though he is invisible, a few seconds later he is on the opposite tower from the direction that he was traveling in so he could not have used undo to get there. Also I have ran speed enchants before they were nerfed along with speed potion and never got close to his speed. There is also his leap of the tower where he travels half the width of the keep.

Waylander07

When I say half the width I meant to say between towers, my bad for not being clear about that

MajBludd

I have to agree with @laksikus. Although it mat appear as cheating. It can be done without just as he explained.

I've seen far more suspicious things on PC. Most of the times it can be chalked up to people knowing what skills and gear are over performing and having a decent geat setup.

Continue to report suspicious activity and let zos handle it. That's the best you can do.

One more thing. Have you or anybody else from your faction spoke to this person?
A lot of players will come out and tell you exactly what they are doing (gear setup, skills, etc) if you are cordial when you pm them and not throwing salt or accusations.

Hope this helps.

Waylander07

MajBludd wrote: »

I have to agree with @laksikus. Although it mat appear as cheating. It can be done without just as he explained.

I've seen far more suspicious things on PC. Most of the times it can be chalked up to people knowing what skills and gear are over performing and having a decent geat setup.

Continue to report suspicious activity and let zos handle it. That's the best you can do.

One more thing. Have you or anybody else from your faction spoke to this person?
A lot of players will come out and tell you exactly what they are doing (gear setup, skills, etc) if you are cordial when you pm them and not throwing salt or accusations.

Hope this helps.

At the end of the day I just want clarification, I personally think he is cheating but if it turns out that he is not then I will hold my hand up and admit that I was wrong. The whole point of my post is the lack of clarification which leads to distrust of both ZOS and players who look like they are cheating.
I have spoken in chat to someone who knows him who claimed that he wasn't cheating but just using an exploit which is actually cheating if done knowingly.

MajBludd

I agree, using an exploit is just that, an exploit. That draws a line as to who is at fault. Is it the gamer or developer?

If it's a known exploit, has been reported several times, is it zos fault for not taking action to fix the problem or the players?

If zos would clarify their position on known exploits that would help. But we all know how zos lacks any real communication.

So, we get what we have here. If zos said we are working on a fix, this will be the punishment if you are reported for using x exploit. But they dont.

Waylander07

laksikus wrote: »

Waylander07 wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

amazing what you can get up to if you just search for waylander07 in youtube

EDIT after you edited your own post:
I explained already what he did in the other thread
I said what he does to leaps around the keep and how he suddenly "teleports".

Please explain it again for us noobs in this thread

bunny hopping and invisibility pots

5 words to explain a thousand word starting post ,)

I took a still of the player I was talking about in mid leap from tower, Does this look like a bunny hop. As I said if I am wrong I will hold my hand up to it.
[img][/img]

laksikus

it does indeed look like he is jumping with a bunnyhop from the tower

Waylander07

laksikus wrote: »

it does indeed look like he is jumping with a bunnyhop from the tower

Can you explain to me how you do a bunnyhop and how it allows you to jump this far, He has already travelled quite a distance in the pic and judging by how high he is compared to the tower he is probably not half way through his bunnyhop yet,

I'm just trying to get my head round how this is possible