Vykosa Monster Set - Purpose, Use?

Lab3360

How do you feel about this set?
What kind of build would you use this set?

What are youre thoughts?

AlienatedGoat

I tinkered with it a bit after Wolfhunter dropped.

I found it severely limiting. The 4% healing is helpful, especially on NB tanks IMO. But the Major Maim debuff is very short, only 3 seconds, and has a stupidly long 15s cooldown.

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

DeadlyRecluse

It's a neat idea for a set, and it's an interesting/novel application condition (bash a taunted enemy? It's super different compared to all the "% chance when you take damage/% chance when you do damage" sets, but I think there are 2 main issues:

1. Kinda-sorta useless in PvE. The duration is too short to treat as just a general debuff to maintain and reduce overall damage going out form the boss...but most short and critical damage instances aren't really able to be neutralized via major maim--they tend to be one-shotty even with major maim. Just...wonky.
2. If buffed up (6s on 10s cooldown, for instance, does sound useful in PvE), it would become kind of absurd in PvP. 60% uptime on major maim on a sword and board build using ye olde LA-Ransack-bash every 10 seconds? Oof.

So...what other effect could be tied to the proc that would be actually useful in PvE without being dumb in PvP? Or what's the sweet spot in terms of offering enough uptime to be good on bosses but not OP/frustrating on players?

....or just ramp up the uptime and make it specify "monsters" rather than all enemies.

Lab3360

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

It's a neat idea for a set, and it's an interesting/novel application condition (bash a taunted enemy? It's super different compared to all the "% chance when you take damage/% chance when you do damage" sets, but I think there are 2 main issues:

1. Kinda-sorta useless in PvE. The duration is too short to treat as just a general debuff to maintain and reduce overall damage going out form the boss...but most short and critical damage instances aren't really able to be neutralized via major maim--they tend to be one-shotty even with major maim. Just...wonky.
2. If buffed up (6s on 10s cooldown, for instance, does sound useful in PvE), it would become kind of absurd in PvP. 60% uptime on major maim on a sword and board build using ye olde LA-Ransack-bash every 10 seconds? Oof.

So...what other effect could be tied to the proc that would be actually useful in PvE without being dumb in PvP? Or what's the sweet spot in terms of offering enough uptime to be good on bosses but not OP/frustrating on players?

....or just ramp up the uptime and make it specify "monsters" rather than all enemies.

I would like to use the set. But I just cant see abuild that could utilize it.

ccfeeling

Decon item , just like Chokethorn .

DLM

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

So a 30% damage reduction almost half the time? That would be way too OP.

Lord_Eomer

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I tinkered with it a bit after Wolfhunter dropped.

I found it severely limiting. The 4% healing is helpful, especially on NB tanks IMO. But the Major Maim debuff is very short, only 3 seconds, and has a stupidly long 15s cooldown.

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

Most of feedback during PTS was to improve this set but ZOS did not listen much,

Also 1 piece can be better as Max Health or Resistance Stats increase, 4% healing taken is not much useful for PVE tanks!

AlienatedGoat

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I tinkered with it a bit after Wolfhunter dropped.

I found it severely limiting. The 4% healing is helpful, especially on NB tanks IMO. But the Major Maim debuff is very short, only 3 seconds, and has a stupidly long 15s cooldown.

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

Most of feedback during PTS was to improve this set but ZOS did not listen much,

Also 1 piece can be better as Max Health or Resistance Stats increase, 4% healing taken is not much useful for PVE tanks!

Disagree for saptanks. You spend much of the time with active heals on.

Lord_Eomer

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I tinkered with it a bit after Wolfhunter dropped.

I found it severely limiting. The 4% healing is helpful, especially on NB tanks IMO. But the Major Maim debuff is very short, only 3 seconds, and has a stupidly long 15s cooldown.

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

Most of feedback during PTS was to improve this set but ZOS did not listen much,

Also 1 piece can be better as Max Health or Resistance Stats increase, 4% healing taken is not much useful for PVE tanks!

Disagree for saptanks. You spend much of the time with active heals on.

Well, I never saw good tanks facing healing issues as your most of CP already into healing and healing from healer or self healing is already sufficient in PVE even for NB tank.

I do not follow Saptanks build since long ago.

sadlythebest

Sounds like it can be useful in certain situations where you must take a large amount of damage e.g Warrior's thousand cuts or Rakkhat's machinegun. Still, there are better sets for general purpose tanking and for PvP.

AlienatedGoat

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

AlienatedGoat wrote: »

I tinkered with it a bit after Wolfhunter dropped.

I found it severely limiting. The 4% healing is helpful, especially on NB tanks IMO. But the Major Maim debuff is very short, only 3 seconds, and has a stupidly long 15s cooldown.

If it was a 6s debuff on a 10s cooldown, it'd be much more useful.

Most of feedback during PTS was to improve this set but ZOS did not listen much,

Also 1 piece can be better as Max Health or Resistance Stats increase, 4% healing taken is not much useful for PVE tanks!

Disagree for saptanks. You spend much of the time with active heals on.

Well, I never saw good tanks facing healing issues as your most of CP already into healing and healing from healer or self healing is already sufficient in PVE even for NB tank.

I do not follow Saptanks build since long ago.

Saptanks are rare these days. old and dying breed

Lab3360

ccfeeling wrote: »

Decon item , just like Chokethorn .

Ikr!?

Vildebill

Extremely situational, but it has its uses when taking a lot of damage in short time, like a heave boss attack (not that we have that many of those anymore since one shot mechanisms seems to be what the combat team sees as good design).

Like mentioned before, I don't know how to buff this set without making it super OP in PvP.

MaxJrFTW

Obviously to mitigate burst. With that said, the cooldown needs to be 10 seconds to make people use it. A 15 second cooldown with a 3 second effect makes it one of the worst if not the worst monster sets in the game.

ccfeeling

PVE perspective

Typical tank has at least 80% mitigation , I don't think the extra Major Maim is really helpful , also this is single target and last for 3 seconds only

Developer wise ?

Silver_Strider

There's a couple of problems with the set that make it nearly useless in the long term.

1) The weak uptime of this set. A 20% uptime, at best, for a debuff that is largely redundant due to the large amount of 1 shot mechanics in ESO puts this set in a really bad spot already. While it can be used to mitigate some burst attacks here and there, that leads into the 2nd problem.
2) The somewhat uncontrollable nature of it. Bashing is often used to interrupt attacks, most of which are mandatory in order to survive a mechanic (Such as interrupting the Courtyard WW in MHK), meaning it's entirely possible that you will use up this proc before something that you'd want to mitigate can occur. Some fight you might be able to use it to mitigate burst (like on the Warrior in HRC) but in others, the set will be completely out of your control, making an already difficult to utilize set even more niche.

Even if ZOS was to increase the uptime to something more reasonable, the set would still be mediocre in most cases due to the 2nd issue with it, which is beyond help. It's sadly a Decon and move on set.

Lab3360

Silver_Strider wrote: »

There's a couple of problems with the set that make it nearly useless in the long term.

1) The weak uptime of this set. A 20% uptime, at best, for a debuff that is largely redundant due to the large amount of 1 shot mechanics in ESO puts this set in a really bad spot already. While it can be used to mitigate some burst attacks here and there, that leads into the 2nd problem.
2) The somewhat uncontrollable nature of it. Bashing is often used to interrupt attacks, most of which are mandatory in order to survive a mechanic (Such as interrupting the Courtyard WW in MHK), meaning it's entirely possible that you will use up this proc before something that you'd want to mitigate can occur. Some fight you might be able to use it to mitigate burst (like on the Warrior in HRC) but in others, the set will be completely out of your control, making an already difficult to utilize set even more niche.

Even if ZOS was to increase the uptime to something more reasonable, the set would still be mediocre in most cases due to the 2nd issue with it, which is beyond help. It's sadly a Decon and move on set.

#2 is a really good point. The bash will definitely intentionally use the 3nd trait.

This is poor design and should go Zos list for rework.

T3hasiangod

Nefas put up a video recently going over it, and I largely agree with his assessment. This set is fairly niche, and its biggest spot is going to be as main tank in vAS to help mitigate Storm the Heavens and Trial by Fire on the DPS. Other niche uses include using it to help mitigate the Warrior's Thousand Cuts or maybe for Drakeeth's ghost blast in vBRP. But ultimately, it's a pretty niche use set which should be used to decrease incoming damage to your teammates, not to you.

The math supports this conclusion. For a DPS with average 15000 resists, you're looking at about a 19.5 percent relative increase in mitigation (~55.4 versus ~68.8 absolute mitigation). For a tank with max resists and block mitigation, then you're looking at about a 3.8 percent relative increase in mitigation (~88.4 versus ~91.9 absolute mitigation). So it has much greater return for attacks that can also target DPS like many of Olms's mechanics.

Jeremy

Lab3360 wrote: »

How do you feel about this set?
What kind of build would you use this set?

What are youre thoughts?

It looked like crap to me. So I never bothered with it. The duration was just way too short, and the recast was too long.