How to bow/bow NB In BGs by Ovenface

  • Abelcher339b14_ESO
    i actually like the bow gank builds. They brought me closer to my main. Bow ganker met my magicka dk. Say hello wings :)
  • iCaliban
    iCaliban
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    LMAO you actually put it up huh ovenface? GG man. I hate playing against you
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    My bow / chicken video was based in large part on ovenface here
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA. Any high MMR player will tell you that.

    I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic. Which is sadly a great analogy for stealth snipe gameplay.
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    LMAO you actually put it up huh ovenface? GG man. I hate playing against you

    I love that you hate it
  • Slack
    Slack
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    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    No need for chicken, since calling himself Ovenface, he is probably baked all the time, or maybe taking the D
    Edited by Slack on January 4, 2019 3:38AM
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    I'll be posting various little tip videos on specific parts to try and help other people who want to play this. Here is the first one.

    How to manage magicka by Ovenface

  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    My bow / chicken video was based in large part on ovenface here
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA. Any high MMR player will tell you that.

    I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic. Which is sadly a great analogy for stealth snipe gameplay.

    100% serious. Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    My bow / chicken video was based in large part on ovenface here
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA. Any high MMR player will tell you that.

    I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic. Which is sadly a great analogy for stealth snipe gameplay.

    100% serious. Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA.

    Oh I believe that part of it, never disputed. But whether you take stealth snipe builds (sans chicken wings) seriously was more the question.
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    iCaliban wrote: »
    LMAO you actually put it up huh ovenface? GG man. I hate playing against you

    I agree with icaliban, and I dislike playing against snipe and draining shot users, bowblades in particular. the reason I focus snipe users is because it is ridiculous that you can do the same damage as a dizzying swing from 40 meters away (and can be safely spammed from behind a group/zerg, etc). Even more annoying is when its combined with cloak for that stun from 40 meters away which is usually used when the person that is being targeted is in a fight. Combined with draining shot which has the tendency to bug out and not let you cc break, bow builds are annoying.
    Edited by Aliyavana on January 4, 2019 5:26AM
    Zebendal- Stam Sorc, PC NA
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    My bow / chicken video was based in large part on ovenface here
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA. Any high MMR player will tell you that.

    I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic. Which is sadly a great analogy for stealth snipe gameplay.

    100% serious. Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA.

    Oh I believe that part of it, never disputed. But whether you take stealth snipe builds (sans chicken wings) seriously was more the question.

    Yeah I do. He’s got a >1 kdr on me when I solo queue
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • Skoomah
    Skoomah
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    When drinking the blood of his enemies in the game isn’t enough... Ovenface slays his enemies on the forums!
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Thogard wrote: »
    Conduit0 wrote: »
    So were you also eating chicken while making this video?

    My bow / chicken video was based in large part on ovenface here
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA. Any high MMR player will tell you that.

    I’m not even sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic. Which is sadly a great analogy for stealth snipe gameplay.

    100% serious. Ovenface has one of the highest MMRs on PC NA.

    Oh I believe that part of it, never disputed. But whether you take stealth snipe builds (sans chicken wings) seriously was more the question.

    Yeah I do. He’s got a >1 kdr on me when I solo queue

    I guess we should all start sniping from stealth then lol. Lag deaths ftw.
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    Skoomah wrote: »
    When drinking the blood of his enemies in the game isn’t enough... Ovenface slays his enemies on the forums!

    Made me laugh IRL
  • Aurielle
    Aurielle
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    If you don't play a NB as a sneaky, opportunist scumbag, you're playing a Nightblade wrong.

    Nah. It’s very possible to play effectively as a brawling, team-focused NB. When I queue on my NB, I do my team lots of favours by keeping Piercing Mark up on any known gankblades. It gives me tremendous pleasure to see them desperately trying to cloak away, only to be melted because they’re not playing with their team, knowing that I’m the reason they could not retreat and exploit the health desync bug some more. I also help my team out with Soul Siphon, instead of selfishly ganking with incap, and have saved many a team wipe by doing so.

    Thanks, OP! I look forward to revealing more stamblades who attempt to copypasta this build in the near future. :*
    Peace-Weaver | Aldmeri Dominion | PS4 NA

    Sarenthia | Altmer Sorcerer
    Aurielle | Breton Warden
    Drusílla | Dunmer Nightblade
    Khuthala | RedguardTemplar
    Malignant gra-Nuloma | Orc Dragonknight

    For the Queen!
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    @Aurielle you’re most welcome. I want 20% of all your positive K/D kills and we’re all set
  • Aedrion
    Aedrion
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    Hah.

    How to bow/bow NB In BGs, brought to you by Cloak.
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Hah.

    How to bow/bow NB In BGs, brought to you by Cloak.

    You should give it a try and see how it works out for you
  • Aedrion
    Aedrion
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    Zeromaz wrote: »

    You should give it a try and see how it works out for you

    Nah, not my style.

  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »

    You should give it a try and see how it works out for you

    Nah, not my style.

    What is your style? I assume its something not as trivial as snipe spam, dawnbreaker axe bleed spin to win, or a cushy heavy armor build that allows for a lot of mistakes to be made and still be in good hands.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Vapirko wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    @Vapirko Glad you didn't enjoy it.

    These videos obviously aren't for you... just don't watch them or comment on them anymore.

    Don’t advertise as high level gameplay, high MMR bow builds then. You post the builds and say you’re a well known, competitive BGs bow build then you open yourself up to critique. You said I was wrong in my initial assumption so I said cool, show me some gameplay, prove me wrong.

    He's a well known PC NA battleground player. One of the only few gankblades that actually makes it work at a high mmr. Most of them are completely useless.

    I didn't see him advertise anything neither. "How to bow/bow NB In BGs by Ovenface", i guess when you're full of insecurities those words take on a whole new meaning? I don't know, just trying to understand where all this salt is coming from.

    "High MMR"

    Like MMR isnt just an arbitrary number that goes up too high if you play too much and then (also arbitrarily) massively extends your queue times.
  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    Aedrion wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    Aedrion wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »

    You should give it a try and see how it works out for you

    Nah, not my style.

    What is your style? I assume its something not as trivial as snipe spam, dawnbreaker axe bleed spin to win, or a cushy heavy armor build that allows for a lot of mistakes to be made and still be in good hands.

    You giving me sass, now? That's funny.

    Let's be fair here, alright? Playing a build so 100% squish takes practise and many people would not manage such clean kills. They would tunnelvision, pick bad fights, bad places to snipe from and wind up not getting much done. So I can't rightly claim that you have no skill. You do.

    But, this build is reliant upon the many benefits of cloak so heavily that it serves as a painful example of just how overpowered that skill is and why all other MMO's do stealth differently. You can build 100% offence get away with it because on demand invis covers 80% of your defence.
    Paired with a skill like Draining Shot that is known to have buggy CC and a skill like Lethal Arrow that applies Defile on top of its ridiculous damage, I don't so much see amazing gameplay here, as much as I see somebody using broken game design to their benefit.

    For that, I cannot appreciate what I'm seeing here since all I see is a hilarious design flaw in action. That's not your fault, it's ZoS, for not understanding what makes healthy PvP.

    PS: Spin2Win, bleeds and big damage while in heavy armour are also not healthy PvP.

    Cheese is cheese is cheese.

    Or is it?

    When we’re judging the builds, are we looking at how effective they are? Or how easy they are to play... or how it works in high end vs low end PvP?

    I tend to focus on the latter. I looked down on snipe builds because they were effective against bad players but ineffective against good players.

    HOWEVER that is no longer true!

    This new pbaoe ball group icewarden “meta” in BGs has made kiting a prerequisite for the high MMR BGs (unless you’re in a group with heavy healing).

    These snipe builds (and there’s really just one - ovenface) are a threat now because he waits until the slow AOE heal group forces their opponents to kite, then he adds on and steals the kills by killing players when they’re vulnerable kiting the tougher opponents.
    PC NA - Thogard / Sir Thogalot / Thoggy Boi jr / Thogaine / Madam Clamslam

    twitch.tv/ThogardPvP
  • wheem_ESO
    wheem_ESO
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    Being able to land 10k+ single hit damage, along with a Major Defile, isn't what I'd call ineffective against good players. And it's not just because of a "meta" change either; the burst damage on Snipe can get pretty silly, and when it's properly timed and coordinated, it's incredibly brutal.

    Archers benefit, more than probably any other build, from BGs having 3 teams instead of 2. Much of the inherent weakness can be covered for by the other teams being involved in heavy combat, and therefore not being able to easily disengage to go after the archer. I can sometimes run down Ovenface and land a kill, but not when I'm stacked with 5 bleeds and snared by >= 50%, even if those people dogpiling me aren't on his team.

    If ZOS ever implements a premade-vs-premade system with 2 teams, I think the current type of archer build would probably be in pretty bad shape...Which is one reason why they should re-balance the bow skill line. It'd be nice for Stamina to have a generally viable ranged damage tree, but nobody should be hitting decently well geared players for 10k+ damage in one ability.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Thogard wrote: »
    Aedrion wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »
    Aedrion wrote: »
    Zeromaz wrote: »

    You should give it a try and see how it works out for you

    Nah, not my style.

    What is your style? I assume its something not as trivial as snipe spam, dawnbreaker axe bleed spin to win, or a cushy heavy armor build that allows for a lot of mistakes to be made and still be in good hands.

    You giving me sass, now? That's funny.

    Let's be fair here, alright? Playing a build so 100% squish takes practise and many people would not manage such clean kills. They would tunnelvision, pick bad fights, bad places to snipe from and wind up not getting much done. So I can't rightly claim that you have no skill. You do.

    But, this build is reliant upon the many benefits of cloak so heavily that it serves as a painful example of just how overpowered that skill is and why all other MMO's do stealth differently. You can build 100% offence get away with it because on demand invis covers 80% of your defence.
    Paired with a skill like Draining Shot that is known to have buggy CC and a skill like Lethal Arrow that applies Defile on top of its ridiculous damage, I don't so much see amazing gameplay here, as much as I see somebody using broken game design to their benefit.

    For that, I cannot appreciate what I'm seeing here since all I see is a hilarious design flaw in action. That's not your fault, it's ZoS, for not understanding what makes healthy PvP.

    PS: Spin2Win, bleeds and big damage while in heavy armour are also not healthy PvP.

    Cheese is cheese is cheese.

    Or is it?

    When we’re judging the builds, are we looking at how effective they are? Or how easy they are to play... or how it works in high end vs low end PvP?

    I tend to focus on the latter. I looked down on snipe builds because they were effective against bad players but ineffective against good players.

    HOWEVER that is no longer true!

    This new pbaoe ball group icewarden “meta” in BGs has made kiting a prerequisite for the high MMR BGs (unless you’re in a group with heavy healing).

    These snipe builds (and there’s really just one - ovenface) are a threat now because he waits until the slow AOE heal group forces their opponents to kite, then he adds on and steals the kills by killing players when they’re vulnerable kiting the tougher opponents.

    Im sorry but I just don't buy it. Im watching this video again and again trying to see the merit in it, and Im seeing multiple kills where OP is able to get off multiple snipes, hits, before the person can even break free from the stealth snipe CC. And you should know as well as anyone what that is. There's multiple shots of half health gone in a single snipe/LA weave, very likely at least a few of those are desyncs. Most of the successful kill shots in this video are done from stealth, and it seems pretty clear that a lot of them are relying on lag deaths. If the lag/desyncs didn't exist around bows then I would be much more willing to support this video. Im sure OP understands PvP/has skill, but for right now it's just really hard to get behind bow builds that use the stealth/snipe combo heavily. The thing is, this play style isn't only effective against bad players because of how badly it lags people out. And many, many people are crutching off it right now and this video is basically just promoting a "stand to the sides and snipe people down then run from combat" play style which is really bringing PvP down. You're arguing that it counters a slow permafrost ball group playstyle but I don't see that here. Most attempts at killing wardens seems to fail and permafrost is obviously death on a build like this when caught. My problem isn't that OP wants to play this build, it's that it promotes it to new players and you end up getting at least 2 bow blades on most BGs teams and they're waiting around every corner in Cyro to gank you. Along with this tank ball group AoE Snare/Damge meta, these builds are probably the second most played style in PvP rn. Both styles seem to move away from active PvP and towards passively letting skills do the work for you. Theres some kiting in this video but I'd more describe it as running and hiding than actual kiting. I don't see a whole lot of follow up and to me kiting entails luring someone into a position where you can then take them out. I don't know the actual build, but Im guessing there is very little recovery, resources, defenses built in because this build relies on getting a one/two shot and getting out. I would be very much interested to see this playstyle in action if the lag/desyncs are ever fixed, and snipe is balanced so that it isn't a long ranged incap strike from stealth. Though that will probably never happen.

    I'd give kudos for the resource management and I do like the shot of knocking the guy back into lava which was well placed, but theres just too many really deadly bugs associated with stealth sniping, and it is very heavily used in this video.
    Edited by Vapirko on January 6, 2019 4:24AM
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    I don’t mind how anyone feels or thinks about what i do. If you think its cool, great... if you think its shameful, thats fair too. But its effective, it works, and i have carried a few teams by my own.

    Like Thog said, cheese is cheese and its everywhere in this game. Because my version of it isn’t the same as someone else’s, doesn’t mean i shouldn’t do it. If we all be honest about it.... isn’t that what most everyone goes for? Effectiveness? I find playing this style works for me.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about this video promoting much more sniping. I have a feeling most of whom try this will give up in a week. Its difficult because if you mess up once, chances are you won’t get the opportunity to correct that mistake.
  • Zeromaz
    Zeromaz
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    Mystikkal wrote: »
    Zeromaz is probably the best stealth bow NB, so I'll hand it to him, good job. Against really solid teams though the lack of team support usually makes it so his team loses the match. It's similar to these Stam sorcs that think they are winning when they get a lot of kills. They may get good damage or kills, but the rest of the team gets rolled cause they don't provide any support to them (e.g. cc, heals, etc). The reality is, for the rest of the team it feels like a 3v4. The enemy team has one less Target, which means those 3 players are taking more damage.. and getting little support from the stealth NB. Not taking anything against zero, he's a solid player.. but the stealth bow NB team rarely wins against solid teams

    You’re pretty accurate. In this scenario i look for someone to make mistakes and try to blow them up so my team ends up in a 3v3 with the added snipe support
  • ChunkyCat
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    In the immortal words of Mother Teresa “when I beat another player, it’s because I’m a skilled warrior of unfathomable prowess. When another player beats me, it’s because he used some cheesy exploit.”
  • Zeromaz
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    ChunkyCat wrote: »
    In the immortal words of Mother Teresa “when I beat another player, it’s because I’m a skilled warrior of unfathomable prowess. When another player beats me, it’s because he used some cheesy exploit.”

    I thought that was Kevin Bacon, no?
  • Zeromaz
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    I’m curious if i have any requests on the next mini-tutorial video i make. Anything specific you guys want to know about the way i play this?
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