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Building for PVE DD without needing online guides

validifyedneb18_ESO
validifyedneb18_ESO
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Just wondering if anyone has tips/tricks for how they build top-damage builds without resorting to just copying one of the very-carefully crafted builds online.

Have a custom build for PVP that can pull about 22k dps in PVE which is really not great now im with a guild looking to complete all the games vet content, dont want to just copy a build or splice builds from Alcast or others.

I mean, a good place to start is is there a good place where all the sets are ranked? Where I can just find all the calculations done to get a basic idea of whats "generally" good or bad in a rankings? Save me from having to manually calculate it ALL myself?
EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Nolic1
    Nolic1
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    Well unfortunately your best bet is to learn from others but find the sets that fit your playstyle or build based on that. As for what sets can you use you can use most damage sets or a mix of sets to get good results but they will not be meta and that is were many will see you as problem in groups cause your not min/maxed to the greatest potential for your group.

    But remember the meta is just a group dynamic or a group of builds that work in a certain way and until another type of meta or group dynamic is made some will see the meta as the only way. This is a big problem with all mmo's no matter what the devs do to try and avoid it like the devs here have done for a long time it seems is not cater to only the meta but to many ideas of group dynamics or group make up but with the meta working the way it does many see it as the best and only option.

    So I say take there thinking or way of play and try to make your own group dynamic with what suits your groups playstyle but offers the same tools used in the meta and see what happens you never know you could find the next best thing.
    Sherman from Sherman's Gaming

    Youtube content creator that is dedicated to the Casual and Roleplay community for News, Lets Talks, Guides, Help and character builds.

    Youtube channel link: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrgYNgpFTRAl4XWz31o2emw
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    I want to learn about becoming a better player...but I dont want to learn from good players....logic(missing)
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    I want to learn about becoming a better player...but I dont want to learn from good players....logic(missing)

    Im quite happy to see a list of calculations and get set bonus breakdowns, I would just rather actually play the game for myself then have someone else tell me how to play.

    Ill check out the guides in your sig later, but im not exactly hopeful. Any of the guides I see online simply say "use this set its good", or maybe go as far as saying something like "It adds crit, which is nice", but guess what, a whole load of sets add crit, I want to know how, without the huge amount of calculation and spread-sheeting I do atm, I can know what sets are better.

    Hundings for example is good, I get that, but then you see that often used as like a "level 0" setup for builds because its easy to get and decent, but apparently other sets do more or less the same but better, and are just harder to farm so you work on getting them later? How do you rank these things?

    Thanks for your useless comment though, very helpful.
    Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on December 31, 2018 6:28PM
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Tasear wrote: »

    Thanks for the link, was looking at this a while back but it seems heinously complex and time consuming if all I want to know is, for example, which of 2 Sets provide more DPS with a basic rotation. Dont know if im just missing a trick?

    I feel like, maybe with the exception of odd proc chances, many sets in the game could be flat calculated and scored for 1 to 1 comparison against eachother? Like if you summed up the DPS added by each component of the armor and came up with a ballpark figure for amount of DPS each set is worth, thats what I try to do atm, but its extremely time consuming and I only calculate for sets I already thing will be decent.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • usmcjdking
    usmcjdking
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    Just wondering if anyone has tips/tricks for how they build top-damage builds without resorting to just copying one of the very-carefully crafted builds online.

    Have a custom build for PVP that can pull about 22k dps in PVE which is really not great now im with a guild looking to complete all the games vet content, dont want to just copy a build or splice builds from Alcast or others.

    I mean, a good place to start is is there a good place where all the sets are ranked? Where I can just find all the calculations done to get a basic idea of whats "generally" good or bad in a rankings? Save me from having to manually calculate it ALL myself?

    This is called relearning the wheel.
    0331
    0602
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    usmcjdking wrote: »
    Just wondering if anyone has tips/tricks for how they build top-damage builds without resorting to just copying one of the very-carefully crafted builds online.

    Have a custom build for PVP that can pull about 22k dps in PVE which is really not great now im with a guild looking to complete all the games vet content, dont want to just copy a build or splice builds from Alcast or others.

    I mean, a good place to start is is there a good place where all the sets are ranked? Where I can just find all the calculations done to get a basic idea of whats "generally" good or bad in a rankings? Save me from having to manually calculate it ALL myself?

    This is called relearning the wheel.

    No, its called learning why the certain wheels are better than others, so I can make my own.

    Why do so many people here have a problem with actually learning the game...
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    It's simple for me;

    Is there a theme? If so primary focus on theme (mostly fun, like pets or a poison build)
    What abilities am I interested in? Choose sets and abilities that synergizes with them
    What sets affect the majority of my abilities? Automaton only buffs half my abilities, I should pick a different set
    Do I wanna solo? If so then a set and a few abilities should be delegated to survivability rather than damage

    Test, did it work at all? What abilities weren't used? What did more than expected? Did it survive? Is it worth pursuing?

    Dps test, am I actually gonna be worth anything if in a group? (Want 30k+)

    It's what I spend a great deal of time doing for fun

    Gamer tag: DasPanzerKat NA Xbox One
    1300+ CP
    Battleground PvP'er

    Waffennacht' Builds
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    I want to learn about becoming a better player...but I dont want to learn from good players....logic(missing)

    Im quite happy to see a list of calculations and get set bonus breakdowns, I would just rather actually play the game for myself then have someone else tell me how to play.

    Ill check out the guides in your sig later, but im not exactly hopeful. Any of the guides I see online simply say "use this set its good", or maybe go as far as saying something like "It adds crit, which is nice", but guess what, a whole load of sets add crit, I want to know how, without the huge amount of calculation and spread-sheeting I do atm, I can know what sets are better.

    Hundings for example is good, I get that, but then you see that often used as like a "level 0" setup for builds because its easy to get and decent, but apparently other sets do more or less the same but better, and are just harder to farm so you work on getting them later? How do you rank these things?

    Thanks for your useless comment though, very helpful.
    Tasear wrote: »

    Thanks for the link, was looking at this a while back but it seems heinously complex and time consuming if all I want to know is, for example, which of 2 Sets provide more DPS with a basic rotation. Dont know if im just missing a trick?

    I feel like, maybe with the exception of odd proc chances, many sets in the game could be flat calculated and scored for 1 to 1 comparison against eachother? Like if you summed up the DPS added by each component of the armor and came up with a ballpark figure for amount of DPS each set is worth, thats what I try to do atm, but its extremely time consuming and I only calculate for sets I already thing will be decent.

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    I want to learn about becoming a better player...but I dont want to learn from good players....logic(missing)

    Im quite happy to see a list of calculations and get set bonus breakdowns, I would just rather actually play the game for myself then have someone else tell me how to play.

    Ill check out the guides in your sig later, but im not exactly hopeful. Any of the guides I see online simply say "use this set its good", or maybe go as far as saying something like "It adds crit, which is nice", but guess what, a whole load of sets add crit, I want to know how, without the huge amount of calculation and spread-sheeting I do atm, I can know what sets are better.

    Hundings for example is good, I get that, but then you see that often used as like a "level 0" setup for builds because its easy to get and decent, but apparently other sets do more or less the same but better, and are just harder to farm so you work on getting them later? How do you rank these things?

    Thanks for your useless comment though, very helpful.
    Tasear wrote: »

    Thanks for the link, was looking at this a while back but it seems heinously complex and time consuming if all I want to know is, for example, which of 2 Sets provide more DPS with a basic rotation. Dont know if im just missing a trick?

    I feel like, maybe with the exception of odd proc chances, many sets in the game could be flat calculated and scored for 1 to 1 comparison against eachother? Like if you summed up the DPS added by each component of the armor and came up with a ballpark figure for amount of DPS each set is worth, thats what I try to do atm, but its extremely time consuming and I only calculate for sets I already thing will be decent.

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    But I have watched the videos, read the guides, and what im saying is, unless I just flatout copy what they've done, they otherwise provide no meaningful insight about how they ended up with the build they created.

    WHY is hundings and briar a worse/easier-to-get counterpart to Beserking and Relequen? Do these builders calculated every possible combination of every possible set? Do they have a method for more easily determining what sets to try? What are the exact calculations for why Maelstrom weps are apparently so much better for DPS? Have these builders even calculated it or are they just picking something they know is top-tier"ish" because its what everyone else picks? If you wanted to choose a new wep how would you/they go about working out which was best?

    So many (imo) totally valid questions, yet all im getting as feedback is "read the guides"
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • ccmedaddy
    ccmedaddy
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    So you don't want to learn from other people's builds but then you want others to make a numerical ranking of all viable sets for you..? That's so weird to me lol.

    I know you said you don't want to but you should really go read/watch other people's builds. Alcast, Dottz, asiangod, etc have great build videos and written guides that explain the thought process that go behind their builds. These are all valuable learning resources for beginners and you don't have to just blindly follow them either.

    Once you understand why they make builds the way the way they do, then you can start making changes to fit your playstyle and eventually come up with your own build.
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    ccmedaddy wrote: »
    So you don't want to learn from other people's builds but then you want others to make a numerical ranking of all viable sets for you..? That's so weird to me lol.

    I know you said you don't want to but you should really go read/watch other people's builds. Alcast, Dottz, asiangod, etc have great build videos and written guides that explain the thought process that go behind their builds. These are all valuable learning resources for beginners and you don't have to just blindly follow them either.

    Once you understand why they make builds the way the way they do, then you can start making changes to fit your playstyle and eventually come up with your own build.

    No, im asking if, while doing all these builds, other people have already made numerical rankings. There seem to be enough people pumping build guides out that I can only assume that either they dont do the calculations in the way I do (and therefore Id like to know the better way of doing it), or they all do the same calculations independant of eachother because they all love spreadsheets so much.

    Or its happy guess work, and most of the builders just copy the other builders that actually know what they're doing and make small edits to call something new their own. I mean, seems less likely but looking more and more likely by each reply I see :/
    Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on December 31, 2018 7:24PM
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    It's simple for me;

    Is there a theme? If so primary focus on theme (mostly fun, like pets or a poison build)
    What abilities am I interested in? Choose sets and abilities that synergizes with them
    What sets affect the majority of my abilities? Automaton only buffs half my abilities, I should pick a different set
    Do I wanna solo? If so then a set and a few abilities should be delegated to survivability rather than damage

    Test, did it work at all? What abilities weren't used? What did more than expected? Did it survive? Is it worth pursuing?

    Dps test, am I actually gonna be worth anything if in a group? (Want 30k+)

    It's what I spend a great deal of time doing for fun

    This

    For example, a full heavy attack mDK for PvP

    1- Want it focused on burst or Dots? If Dots, then use a shock staff
    2- what sets benefits me more for dots? Skoria
    3- full HA will make me lose few magicka, do I go with spell dmg jewelry glyphs or magicka recovery? The former the best
    4- How do I dmg blocking chars? Just use an oblivion glyph on an infused lit staff. If you want more dmg, just use Torug's pack.
    5- Any other set that can help me? You can run spinner for extra penetration, or knight slayer/Sload's for more oblivion dmg. Or Netch for extra shock dmg.
    6- What about the bars?

    You need to stun the guy before using thre heavy attack so you have to choose a ranged stun. Stone fist is an option, but shck reach has a DoT that help you with skoria so, that's the first skill.
    Then, if you want to put dmg without losing much penetration you have to run light armor, and light armor comes with annulement, so that's your second skill. A burst heal can be CDB, so if an enemy catches you, you can block-cast annulement and then heal with CDB. A fourth skill could be one that help you with snares, so wings is an option. As a fifth skill, DKs have one that not only buffs your spell dmg, but also your heavy attacks, so slot molten armaments. Finally, a great ulti DoT can be meteor, but maybe soul assault is better and fits the DoT concept.

    And then you have a build. Slot a resto staff in the other bar with some "Oh ***" skills (healing ward, panacea, mutagen, igneous armor) some buffs (Volatile armor) and things that help your group (ash cloud, healing springs; ultis like barrier, horn, magma armor, standard, etc) and you will be OK.

    Then just try the build.
    Edited by Xvorg on December 31, 2018 8:42PM
    Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly

    I was born with the wrong sign
    In the wrong house
    With the wrong ascendancy
    I took the wrong road
    That led to the wrong tendencies
    I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
    For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
    On the wrong day of the wrong week
    Used the wrong method with the wrong technique
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    Pretty useful post, I do tend to sim everything on a target dummy when I can, but its hard to try major variations without all the gear/upgrades I need, do most builders just use the PTR to create builds and then actually make/use them on live?
    Xvorg wrote: »
    5- Any other set that can help me? You can run spinner for extra penetration, or knight slayer/Sload's for more oblivion dmg. Or Netch for extra shock dmg.

    So what you're saying I assume is, worry less about calculating, use general knowledge of the game to realize that all the sets you mentioned are good enough (Which is fair), and then just try them all out on a target dummy? I feel like this question feeds into my other point about PTR building, testing a lot of different stuff out on live has cost me a lost of gold for not a lot of gain on all but my main.

    Thanks though, I feel like I may have written the original question in the wrong way, what I wanted is insight into how builders actually go about making the best tuned builds, to see if im doing stuff wrong or could be doing things better.
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • Liofa
    Liofa
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    PTS is your friend.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    I want to learn about becoming a better player...but I dont want to learn from good players....logic(missing)

    Im quite happy to see a list of calculations and get set bonus breakdowns, I would just rather actually play the game for myself then have someone else tell me how to play.

    Ill check out the guides in your sig later, but im not exactly hopeful. Any of the guides I see online simply say "use this set its good", or maybe go as far as saying something like "It adds crit, which is nice", but guess what, a whole load of sets add crit, I want to know how, without the huge amount of calculation and spread-sheeting I do atm, I can know what sets are better.

    Hundings for example is good, I get that, but then you see that often used as like a "level 0" setup for builds because its easy to get and decent, but apparently other sets do more or less the same but better, and are just harder to farm so you work on getting them later? How do you rank these things?

    Thanks for your useless comment though, very helpful.
    Tasear wrote: »

    Thanks for the link, was looking at this a while back but it seems heinously complex and time consuming if all I want to know is, for example, which of 2 Sets provide more DPS with a basic rotation. Dont know if im just missing a trick?

    I feel like, maybe with the exception of odd proc chances, many sets in the game could be flat calculated and scored for 1 to 1 comparison against eachother? Like if you summed up the DPS added by each component of the armor and came up with a ballpark figure for amount of DPS each set is worth, thats what I try to do atm, but its extremely time consuming and I only calculate for sets I already thing will be decent.

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    But I have watched the videos, read the guides, and what im saying is, unless I just flatout copy what they've done, they otherwise provide no meaningful insight about how they ended up with the build they created.

    WHY is hundings and briar a worse/easier-to-get counterpart to Beserking and Relequen? Do these builders calculated every possible combination of every possible set? Do they have a method for more easily determining what sets to try? What are the exact calculations for why Maelstrom weps are apparently so much better for DPS? Have these builders even calculated it or are they just picking something they know is top-tier"ish" because its what everyone else picks? If you wanted to choose a new wep how would you/they go about working out which was best?

    So many (imo) totally valid questions, yet all im getting as feedback is "read the guides"

    All the reputable people making guides test all the gear with rarairaraid buffs determining the beat performing gear. For specific questions I would ask them directly. Most are in discord and are friendly and willing to answer any questions.
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
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    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?
  • validifyedneb18_ESO
    validifyedneb18_ESO
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    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    As an edit, ill add a thankyou, took a while to get there but I got the answers I wanted in the end lol

    Edited by validifyedneb18_ESO on December 31, 2018 11:04PM
    EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
    NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/
  • Iskiab
    Iskiab
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    To the OP, I’ve noticed the same thing. The reason you’re getting these kind of responses is because there are very few theorycrafters in this game. Most players just parrot what they’ve read and think they’re experts. That’s why people start theorycrafting in the first place, if someone finds something really good they might not share it.

    I also think it’s because of the time investment required to test these things. Most people get the minimum skill points they need for their wanted build and once done make an alt. Testing all these sets takes a lot of time, time away from reading forums...

    If you want to make your own build start with passives. Everything I’ve looked into points to maximizing passives over more abilities. The key to dps builds in this game is to collect all available dps passives on each bar, then fill with the other skills you want. The passives are more important than the skills you choose themselves. Start with one skill from each class skill line, weapon skill if you need it, inner light for magicka.
    Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
    Havoc Warhammer - Alair
    LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
    Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
    Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten
  • idk
    idk
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

    Boy does the game lack without Asayre
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    idk wrote: »

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

    Boy does the game lack without Asayre

    Detailed testing like he did to find bugs is definitely needed, as far as gear and skill choice, Liko filled that spot. Also the fact that he is able to provide raid parses confirming his testing gives him credibility that no other tester has.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    idk wrote: »

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

    Boy does the game lack without Asayre

    Detailed testing like he did to find bugs is definitely needed, as far as gear and skill choice, Liko filled that spot. Also the fact that he is able to provide raid parses confirming his testing gives him credibility that no other tester has.

    Link to the testing that Liko has done?
  • hedna123b14_ESO
    hedna123b14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    idk wrote: »

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

    Boy does the game lack without Asayre

    Detailed testing like he did to find bugs is definitely needed, as far as gear and skill choice, Liko filled that spot. Also the fact that he is able to provide raid parses confirming his testing gives him credibility that no other tester has.

    Link to the testing that Liko has done?

    If you go to his channel there are parses for most classes and raid parses are also available.
  • WuffyCerulei
    WuffyCerulei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Minor Slayer is helpful. if you're stam, focus less on max stam and more on weapon damage. Magicka, try looking to keep your magicka around 38-40k and use sets that give you a bonus to spell damage, or Necropotence if you're a pet sorc. Do some research on sets that may be beneficial to you. Healing/sustain sets aren't needed, as you'll have food and absorb stam/magicka glyphs to help with that.
    For the love of Kyne, buff sorc. PC NACP 2100+Star-Sïnger - Khajiit Magicka Sorc - EP Grand Overlord - Flawless Conqueror vMA/vBRP/vDSA no death/vHel Ra HM/vAA HM/vSO HM/vMoL HM/vHoF HM/vAS +2/vCR+3/vSS HMs/vKA HMs/vVH/vRG Oax HM/vDSR
  • T3hasiangod
    T3hasiangod
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    For PvE, you can just math it out. I've even built a spreadsheet that I can use to simplify the process.

    While it isn't 100 percent precise, it gives me a good enough idea to know which combinations are going to be close enough that further testing (i.e. dummy parses) are necessary.

    Literally, all the resources are out there. You just aren't looking hard enough.
    PC/NA - Mayflower, Hellfire Dominion

    Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor - Voice of Reason - Gryphon Heart - The Unchained - Extinguisher of Flames

    Tank - Healer - DPS (all classes, all specs)

    Youtube - Twitch
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    idk wrote: »

    I'm not trying to be a ***, but you ask a question about learning the intricacies of build making, but dont want to watch videos from people that give you several gear selections for different situations and explain why certain gear choices matter. The information you asked in your question is contained in guides. So then someone gives you the completely DIY path and you say that is too complex. I dont get you at all. Either do it yourself from the get go, or do what everyone else does about anything. Read up the info on it and then choose your own direction. If I wanted to create my own way of farming i would first read all about how professionals farm and then using that knowledge go my own direction...not sure what you are trying to do...

    Take for example the first comment from your stamden build thread;
    This build is way worse than the DPS suggests, you are benefiting from major fracture while other builds don't while DPS testing and would be applied in any serious setting by someone else. This alone accounts for at least. AT LEAST. 10% of your dps which brings you back down to more like 34k which is below avg for the gear level you are at. A DK or templar would do better. Also you provide 0 group utility. LOL because of that this isn't even a good warden build.

    I mean did you consider this in your calculations? Why is your DPS so low compared to the super high tuned builds? Is your build just less glass-cannon? How did you come up with the set and rotation, I mean rotation changes heavily depending on how high your maxstat/dmg is and more stuff becomes viable, how did you balance this? Why did you choose the lover stone, not the Serpend for example which would offset the need for recovery from food and potentially give a dps boost from higher maxstat? What about Theif stone, did you consider it? Did you do the calculations considering average enemy defence and the possibility of stacking crit damage to increase the effectiveness of higher crit?

    I havent done any builds in over 6 months so I wouldnt use my guides as a resource. That being said, to answer your questions.
    1. At the time the build was posted the dps I was showing in the build was top.
    2. Currently there are no variations between builds because everyone tests everything on the PTS with full buffs and everyone arrives at the same results. There is no build variety, which is primarily why I stopped posting builds. If you question the validity of this testing it is peer reviewed by over 100 different people all at the top end.
    3. Rotation is either fully dynamic, semi dynamic or static. The current stamden rotation is mostly static for example.
    4. Lover stone yields the most dps for all dps in all situations, the reason why all stamina classes run it is because they do not reach penetration cap without it. Magicka classes do not Lover, because a good group allows them to reach penetration cap without Lover.
    5. The enemy defense in all group PvE content is 18200. So yes all of these variable were looked at.

    Any other queations?

    I think I read about the penetration cap being around 7.5k somewhere? So its pretty much guaranteed in all cases that if you're not at cap then getting more will yield more dps compared to any other option? Ill have to look for a calculations breakdown to get an idea.

    Other than that, you mostly answered my question yeah, main point being I need to get into the PTR to do builds

    Yes penetration is the best way to buff damage.
    Penetration in all trials/arena/dungeons is 18200
    For overworld I think its 12k, but dont quote me on that...that doesnt matter in any case since you can basically breath on anything and it dies.
    I think this may be what you're looking for:
    This is a bit outdated, but most of the formulas should work.
    https://tamrielfoundry.com/articles/introduction-to-pve-damage-calculation-homestead/

    Boy does the game lack without Asayre

    Detailed testing like he did to find bugs is definitely needed, as far as gear and skill choice, Liko filled that spot. Also the fact that he is able to provide raid parses confirming his testing gives him credibility that no other tester has.

    Link to the testing that Liko has done?

    If you go to his channel there are parses for most classes and raid parses are also available.

    Link to channel?
  • StytchFingal
    StytchFingal
    ✭✭✭

    Link to channel?

    Liko's channel.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭

    Link to channel?

    Liko's channel.

    Thank you.
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