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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Why?
Best Answers
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ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!6 -
midgetfromtheshire✭✭✭✭Bows use stamina, so why are they not melee?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee_weapon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranged_weaponGet rid of faction locks.5 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭With One Tamriel, ZOS implemented "smart loot" in which sets where the weapons triggered from specific situations had weapons removed if they couldnt proc the effect. The Marksman set was the biggest culprit, since it only procced from bows, but it impacted things like Viper.
This did not change things like staves dropping from stamina-oriented sets. Just sets where its impossible for the weapon to proc the set.
Now, I suspect that ZOS hasn't been as strict about this with newer sets, probably because of threads where people ask for a Viper Bow to complete the set even,though the Viper Bow abilities can't proc its set effect.5 -
Arkangeloski✭✭✭✭I got a viper's bow
and I can tell you is useless 
I got it long long ago in sanctum run a master or shackle or any 2 piece set that gives you damage, I personally don't like max resource back bar or any bar bc it bugs my resources sometimes specially on laggy environments. But yeah master bow would be ideal if not the perfect back bar weapon. 5 -
midgetfromtheshire✭✭✭✭ProbablePaul wrote: »midgetfromtheshire wrote: »Bows use stamina, so why are they not melee?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee_weapon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranged_weapon
But liek... Throwing daggers? hatchets? bayonettes?
Those are listed in ranged weapons.Get rid of faction locks.5 -
midgetfromtheshire✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »TheDarkoil wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!
You both know that a Spell Strategist bow is just as useless as a bow for a set that procs of melee damage. So why is it in game, when the other ones aren't?The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.
So, that's exactly my point. Why is it in game, when bows for the other sets have been removed?
Spell Strategist bow would work as intended technically, all you got to do is light attack with it, probs a random hybrid build somewhere which might use it.
Of course not, a bow is useless on a magicka set of which the proc gives spell damage. Dual wield or 2-handed would work, especially on a hybrid but bow wouldn't be much of any help.
That's missing the point.
Spell strategist bows may be useless, but they are technically useable. With a light attack, a bow can proc the Spell Strategist set effect even though it is almost certainly a waste for whatver build thought they wanted a bow with a magicka set.
My favorite item in the game "Inferno Staff of the Fire" is in a similar boat. A destro staff for a weapon damage set is useless, but technically useable.
Compare that to several of the removed sets.
Viper procs from melee damage, therefore bows were removed because bow abilities cannot proc it at all. Bows are unusable with Viper, though non-bow melee abilities coud proc it on the bow bar.
Marksman weapons other than bows were removed from drop tables because the effect only benefits bows.
Sword Singer similarly benefits weapons using Two-Handed skills, so you'll only ever get those weapons from it.
With all of those, the removed types of weapons are unuseable for proccing the set bonus. People want them so they can use other abilities to proc the effect while on that bar, but the weapons themselves are unusable.
Now, the set that indicates this design philosophy is changing is Soldier of Anguish which procs from a melee light attack. That ought to have a limited weapon pool, but it drops in all weapon types. I suspect ZOS listened to the threads where people want Viper bows, etc, and decided they might as well throw the useless weapons into the drop table oe else people will complain.
This. It's not about whether it's useless for the build, it's about whether the set bonus will proc. Spell strategist will proc from light attacks regardless of the weapon. Viper bow will not proc because it's only from melee damage.Get rid of faction locks.5 -
Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I used to proc viper, with a viper bow, from bashing. Back when it did all of its damage up front, it worked very well in tandem with a couple other procs on a spambush archer.
Viper bows still exist, they just don't drop anymore.Edited by Judas Helviaryn on January 3, 2019 7:06AM5
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The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real5 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.CP2,000 Master Explorer - AvA One Star General - Console Peasant - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!7 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!3 -
Gnozo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Still a ranged attack. Just use Agility bow instead, whats the Problem Dude?
Ups, didnt saw the /s
Sorry
Edited by Gnozo on December 28, 2018 11:35AM2 -
burglar✭✭✭✭midgetfromtheshire wrote: »Bows use stamina, so why are they not melee?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melee_weapon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranged_weapon
But liek... Throwing daggers? hatchets? bayonettes?Bosmer Melee Magicka Nightblade0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
jerrodbuffington✭✭✭If they made stam sets not drop staves then I wouldn't have an alkosh lightning staff.
I can see them not allowing a bow of viper to drop tho.. just use a master bow..0 -
El_Borracho✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Because that's the way it is. There used to be a Advancing Yokeda bow, too. That got dumped about 2 years ago with One Tamriel:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/294849/pc-mac-patch-notes-v2-6-4-update-12-one-tamriel
Specifically:
So enjoy your pointless Vicious Serpent Resto staff and thank the devs for their intelligent drops.Sets that grant a bonus to melee damage will now drop more intelligently (i.e. a set with melee damage will no longer drop with a bow or stave).1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.
What about Soldier Of Anguish Frost Staves?0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.
What about Soldier Of Anguish Frost Staves?
ZOS probably learned a little something since One Tamriel, namely that even if a weapon is completely useless for proccing its set bonus, people will still ask for it.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
I'm going to hate myself for saying this, but "tanks."
Tanks will often use, "unconventional" set choices. Normally you wouldn't see a tank using a bow, but there are a few reasons one might want to take one. So, combine these and there is a reason for things like IA or Mending to drop on a bow.
Does this specific example make sense? No. Not at all. But I can see where it might be used.
The sets that don't drop in specific weapon types cannot be used on that weapon type.
So, Viper won't drop on a bow because a bow can't proc it. (I suppose you could slot surprise attack or something similar, and force it to proc that way, but the set won't work with the bow.
Similarly, you're never going to see a Sword Singer in anything other than 2h, because it only affects 2h abilities. So, if you're using a bow, you can't use momentum.
Stuff like Spider Cultist, Light Seeker, and Knight-Errant are hard locked to specific skill lines and will never drop in combinations that cannot function.
The game will gleefully drop stuff that makes no sense. Automaton Resto Staff? Cool. Master Architect Battle Axe? Sure, why not? Ice Staff of Vicious Ophidian? Yep, you betcha. Ysgramor exists? Now you're getting in the spirit!
But, seriously, yeah, usuable weapons don't drop. Bad weapon/set combos do.0 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!
You both know that a Spell Strategist bow is just as useless as a bow for a set that procs of melee damage. So why is it in game, when the other ones aren't?The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.
So, that's exactly my point. Why is it in game, when bows for the other sets have been removed?Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
TheDarkoil✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!
You both know that a Spell Strategist bow is just as useless as a bow for a set that procs of melee damage. So why is it in game, when the other ones aren't?The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.
So, that's exactly my point. Why is it in game, when bows for the other sets have been removed?
Spell Strategist bow would work as intended technically, all you got to do is light attack with it, probs a random hybrid build somewhere which might use it.1 -
The Uninvited✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheDarkoil wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!
You both know that a Spell Strategist bow is just as useless as a bow for a set that procs of melee damage. So why is it in game, when the other ones aren't?The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.
So, that's exactly my point. Why is it in game, when bows for the other sets have been removed?
Spell Strategist bow would work as intended technically, all you got to do is light attack with it, probs a random hybrid build somewhere which might use it.
Of course not, a bow is useless on a magicka set of which the proc gives spell damage. Dual wield or 2-handed would work, especially on a hybrid but bow wouldn't be much of any help.Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |
Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real0 -
Chaos2088✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
....I'm involved...yay.Edited by Chaos2088 on December 29, 2018 12:29PM@Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP1 -
Vizikul✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.
Do bash attacks and poison glyphs not count as melee attacks? Making viper bows just like 80% irrelevant?Pugging. Pugging all the way to victory.Imperial Dragonknight --- male, stamina, heavy & medium armor, dual wield, one hand and shield, two handed.
Breton Templar --- female, magicka, light armor, restoration staff.
Redguard Warden --- female, stamina, medium armor, bow.
Breton Sorcerer --- male, magicka, light armor, destruction staff.
Imperial Templar --- male, stamina, medium armor, two handed.
Daggerfall Covenant loyalist0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The Uninvited wrote: »TheDarkoil wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
What Ackwalan meant is those sets only proc off melee damage. Bows aren't melee damage and thus, would never proc it's own set if used, thus making them 100% irrelevant.The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Hybrids...OR someone that might have all class skills on their bar, but take the bow's stun/knockback skill for extra defense instead of rolling. The description only says a light attack is needed, never said anything about a staff!
You both know that a Spell Strategist bow is just as useless as a bow for a set that procs of melee damage. So why is it in game, when the other ones aren't?The Uninvited wrote: »Then explain Spell Strategist bow, Ackwalan.
Just because RNG drops an inappropriate weapon, it does not mean that weapon will work.
So, that's exactly my point. Why is it in game, when bows for the other sets have been removed?
Spell Strategist bow would work as intended technically, all you got to do is light attack with it, probs a random hybrid build somewhere which might use it.
Of course not, a bow is useless on a magicka set of which the proc gives spell damage. Dual wield or 2-handed would work, especially on a hybrid but bow wouldn't be much of any help.
That's missing the point.
Spell strategist bows may be useless, but they are technically useable. With a light attack, a bow can proc the Spell Strategist set effect even though it is almost certainly a waste for whatver build thought they wanted a bow with a magicka set.
My favorite item in the game "Inferno Staff of the Fire" is in a similar boat. A destro staff for a weapon damage set is useless, but technically useable.
Compare that to several of the removed sets.
Viper procs from melee damage, therefore bows were removed because bow abilities cannot proc it at all. Bows are unusable with Viper, though non-bow melee abilities coud proc it on the bow bar.
Marksman weapons other than bows were removed from drop tables because the effect only benefits bows.
Sword Singer similarly benefits weapons using Two-Handed skills, so you'll only ever get those weapons from it.
With all of those, the removed types of weapons are unuseable for proccing the set bonus. People want them so they can use other abilities to proc the effect while on that bar, but the weapons themselves are unusable.
Now, the set that indicates this design philosophy is changing is Soldier of Anguish which procs from a melee light attack. That ought to have a limited weapon pool, but it drops in all weapon types. I suspect ZOS listened to the threads where people want Viper bows, etc, and decided they might as well throw the useless weapons into the drop table oe else people will complain.
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