or even make it stay on target after leaving proc circle very briefly to offset reduced efficacyHere's as example using healing springs in an excessive amount for dramatic effect.
Let's say you have 10 players each casting 3 layers of springs. At the most extreme point you will have 30 layers of springs on the ground, pulsing 4 times each one second apart, with the ability to heal 180 players. Each pulse of each layer of springs has to figure out which 6 players it will heal and then heal them accordingly. That's a lot going on.
This could be changed one of two ways according to OP. It could be a self only hot which doesn't have to figure out who to heal pulses every 2 seconds for twice the amount of healing each pulse, healing only the 10 players that cast it. Or it could be changed to an AoE direct heal that heals every target within its radius one time for 4 times the healing power. It does have to figure out who to heal, but it is all inclusive, or all exclusive depending on who is within the radius. Both of these ways of the spell working require orders of magnitude less calculations by the server to perform the heals.
a simpler solution would be to reduce their radius so you have to really intentionally get healed by it.
There are only 2 ways to reduce the lag in game. Create a bigger pipeline or reduce what travels thru the current pipeline. Since creating a bigger pipeline probably involves overhauling the engine itself lets look at reducing the data that travels through the pipeline. Below I will list ways to do that, some which may stand alone, and some which may be built upon others. Each idea is singular at its heart and a stand alone independent idea, but could be used with others listed for greater effect.
Dots and Hots is where we start. Right now some Dots and Hots tick every 2 seconds, some tick every second, I think some tick every half second. Make all Hots and Dots tick every 2 seconds period, end of discussion. This alone will reduce the data transferred by any Dots and Hots that tick every half second by a factor of 4 and those that tick every second by a factor of 2. The ticks will need to be 2 times and 4 times stronger so that the dps or hps of these abilities in the end is the same, they just pulse much slower. This includes proctato and cheese.
Make Dots and Hots single target only. This will reduce the data transferred by a factor of however many targets that specific ability can hit, or on average does hit. Hots would be self only heals while Dots would only effect 1 single target. They may need to be increased in strength to accommodate the fact that they are only single target. Certain classes may need access to more or better Hots for self healing.
Give direct damage abilities cool downs. Spamables with a damage rating deemed appropriate for a spamable would get a 1 second cooldown. Heavier hitters could get a 2 second cooldown, or a 1 second cooldown and 1 second cast time. These would do more damage than spamables by a significant margin. Complete blasters that would do even more damage, but get a 3 second or more cool down. These can be single target or AoE but are not channeled nor over time abilities.
Heals, get rid of smart targeting. Make all AoE heals so that if you are within the radius you get the heal, if you are outside the radius you don't. All AoE heals are direct heals, no AoE Hot heals. Self heals can be HoT or a direct self heal. Again the strength of these heals may need to be adjusted and balanced.
All special effects that are part of all types of these Dots, HOts, DD, DH of the CC variety would also obey any of these above mentioned rules that were adopted. No over time CC, only single target CC or AoE off of AoE direct damage that doesn't reapply the CC after the initial hit.
Gonna stop there as I probably am already pissing too many people off, but will follow up later with light attack weaving and the effects of it on server performance. It is time to re-think the amount of data that is getting pushed through the pipeline and come up with creative ways to reduce it, while at the same time maintaining current DPS/HPS numbers by pushing fewer larger numbers through rather than more smaller numbers through.
My understanding is that the hideous lag we encounter in Cyrodiil is server processing lag. We see it represented in ping not because the network connections are saturated, but because the server load is so high that even responses to ping requests become lagged.
The 'server' is actually multiple machines, of course. The ESO server tech is supposed to segment battles so that a big fight at Ash doesn't lag players at BRK, but for some reason that doesn't work.
IMO, the main problem is that ZOS didn't design the server tech for how the game is played. I don't think the game was designed for us to have enough recovery to constantly spam abilities as quickly as we do.
Futhermore, I think ESO is profiled and optimized to work well in 12 player instances. This became more true as the emphasis of the game switched almost entirely to PVE and ZOS introduced 12 player PVP.
I believe the true solution to AvA lag is to separate AvA game design from the rest of the game and design gameplay around the limitations of the server. Another solution is to design better gameplay to create PVP opportunities across the map. ZOS has been very unimaginative in doing so -- probably because they don't allocate the resources necessary for it to be done well.
My understanding is that the hideous lag we encounter in Cyrodiil is server processing lag. We see it represented in ping not because the network connections are saturated, but because the server load is so high that even responses to ping requests become lagged.
The 'server' is actually multiple machines, of course. The ESO server tech is supposed to segment battles so that a big fight at Ash doesn't lag players at BRK, but for some reason that doesn't work.
IMO, the main problem is that ZOS didn't design the server tech for how the game is played. I don't think the game was designed for us to have enough recovery to constantly spam abilities as quickly as we do.
Futhermore, I think ESO is profiled and optimized to work well in 12 player instances. This became more true as the emphasis of the game switched almost entirely to PVE and ZOS introduced 12 player PVP.
I believe the true solution to AvA lag is to separate AvA game design from the rest of the game and design gameplay around the limitations of the server. Another solution is to design better gameplay to create PVP opportunities across the map. ZOS has been very unimaginative in doing so -- probably because they don't allocate the resources necessary for it to be done well.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y
which is why we need computational accelerators (because if we're going to make PvP scale beyond 12 players a thread, why not pull in something more apt for transforming a massive dataset in realtime) and a revised approach to combat moderation (since people exploit and suddenly we have an excess of processing power)
My understanding is that the hideous lag we encounter in Cyrodiil is server processing lag. We see it represented in ping not because the network connections are saturated, but because the server load is so high that even responses to ping requests become lagged.
The 'server' is actually multiple machines, of course. The ESO server tech is supposed to segment battles so that a big fight at Ash doesn't lag players at BRK, but for some reason that doesn't work.
IMO, the main problem is that ZOS didn't design the server tech for how the game is played. I don't think the game was designed for us to have enough recovery to constantly spam abilities as quickly as we do.
Futhermore, I think ESO is profiled and optimized to work well in 12 player instances. This became more true as the emphasis of the game switched almost entirely to PVE and ZOS introduced 12 player PVP.
I believe the true solution to AvA lag is to separate AvA game design from the rest of the game and design gameplay around the limitations of the server. Another solution is to design better gameplay to create PVP opportunities across the map. ZOS has been very unimaginative in doing so -- probably because they don't allocate the resources necessary for it to be done well.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y
which is why we need computational accelerators (because if we're going to make PvP scale beyond 12 players a thread, why not pull in something more apt for transforming a massive dataset in realtime) and a revised approach to combat moderation (since people exploit and suddenly we have an excess of processing power)
Are you talking hardware or software, and is it viable at this point?
Or, just do what everyone in the industry knows works well and implement both client side *and* server side prediction.
That way, you don't have to transfer *any* of the information you mentioned in real time, both the client and server predict what needs to happen next but the server never trusts data from the client (which has been ESO single largest flaw), instead the server makes the final choice and sends that to the client.
99% of the time, the client prediction will match the server choice (or be very close to it) and all is well in game land.
That's how many, many games before ESO have done it successfully. ESO should have been setup that way from the beginning but unfortunately whoever was in charge of the "netcode" had no real world experience building real time client/server systems for games.
And now they are either stuck with continuing to add band-aid patches to a flawed system or bite the bullet and redo it correctly.
PS: None of this is new, myself and others made ZOS aware of the shortcomings of their implementation all the way back in beta, months before PC launch.
There are only 2 ways to reduce the lag in game. Create a bigger pipeline or reduce what travels thru the current pipeline. Since creating a bigger pipeline probably involves overhauling the engine itself lets look at reducing the data that travels through the pipeline. Below I will list ways to do that, some which may stand alone, and some which may be built upon others. Each idea is singular at its heart and a stand alone independent idea, but could be used with others listed for greater effect.
Dots and Hots is where we start. Right now some Dots and Hots tick every 2 seconds, some tick every second, I think some tick every half second. Make all Hots and Dots tick every 2 seconds period, end of discussion. This alone will reduce the data transferred by any Dots and Hots that tick every half second by a factor of 4 and those that tick every second by a factor of 2. The ticks will need to be 2 times and 4 times stronger so that the dps or hps of these abilities in the end is the same, they just pulse much slower. This includes proctato and cheese.
Make Dots and Hots single target only. This will reduce the data transferred by a factor of however many targets that specific ability can hit, or on average does hit. Hots would be self only heals while Dots would only effect 1 single target. They may need to be increased in strength to accommodate the fact that they are only single target. Certain classes may need access to more or better Hots for self healing.
Give direct damage abilities cool downs. Spamables with a damage rating deemed appropriate for a spamable would get a 1 second cooldown. Heavier hitters could get a 2 second cooldown, or a 1 second cooldown and 1 second cast time. These would do more damage than spamables by a significant margin. Complete blasters that would do even more damage, but get a 3 second or more cool down. These can be single target or AoE but are not channeled nor over time abilities.
Heals, get rid of smart targeting. Make all AoE heals so that if you are within the radius you get the heal, if you are outside the radius you don't. All AoE heals are direct heals, no AoE Hot heals. Self heals can be HoT or a direct self heal. Again the strength of these heals may need to be adjusted and balanced.
All special effects that are part of all types of these Dots, HOts, DD, DH of the CC variety would also obey any of these above mentioned rules that were adopted. No over time CC, only single target CC or AoE off of AoE direct damage that doesn't reapply the CC after the initial hit.
Gonna stop there as I probably am already pissing too many people off, but will follow up later with light attack weaving and the effects of it on server performance. It is time to re-think the amount of data that is getting pushed through the pipeline and come up with creative ways to reduce it, while at the same time maintaining current DPS/HPS numbers by pushing fewer larger numbers through rather than more smaller numbers through.
You really don't understand how this works do you
For the layman that sounds great ... Reality ... Probably wouldn't make anything different other than create a boring arse Game that no one wants to play
Simple truth is as numbers drop the number of servers used to create the mega server are also reduced to prevent unneeded overhead costs
This means calculations take longer and are creating lag
Also pings from farther reaching clients take longer to process as the send n return are longer
Influx of people using mobile data instead of fixed line internet is creating lag
All these things need to be addressed first
Merge NA and EU servers so more servers are running
Improve the net code for balancing the send n return times for different regional zones across the globe
Do what bungue did and identify mobile data connections and lock those players from the game (usually kids who's parent turn off the WiFi as punishment so they tether the condone to their phones )
There are only 2 ways to reduce the lag in game. Create a bigger pipeline or reduce what travels thru the current pipeline. Since creating a bigger pipeline probably involves overhauling the engine itself lets look at reducing the data that travels through the pipeline. Below I will list ways to do that, some which may stand alone, and some which may be built upon others. Each idea is singular at its heart and a stand alone independent idea, but could be used with others listed for greater effect.
Dots and Hots is where we start. Right now some Dots and Hots tick every 2 seconds, some tick every second, I think some tick every half second. Make all Hots and Dots tick every 2 seconds period, end of discussion. This alone will reduce the data transferred by any Dots and Hots that tick every half second by a factor of 4 and those that tick every second by a factor of 2. The ticks will need to be 2 times and 4 times stronger so that the dps or hps of these abilities in the end is the same, they just pulse much slower. This includes proctato and cheese.
Make Dots and Hots single target only. This will reduce the data transferred by a factor of however many targets that specific ability can hit, or on average does hit. Hots would be self only heals while Dots would only effect 1 single target. They may need to be increased in strength to accommodate the fact that they are only single target. Certain classes may need access to more or better Hots for self healing.
Give direct damage abilities cool downs. Spamables with a damage rating deemed appropriate for a spamable would get a 1 second cooldown. Heavier hitters could get a 2 second cooldown, or a 1 second cooldown and 1 second cast time. These would do more damage than spamables by a significant margin. Complete blasters that would do even more damage, but get a 3 second or more cool down. These can be single target or AoE but are not channeled nor over time abilities.
Heals, get rid of smart targeting. Make all AoE heals so that if you are within the radius you get the heal, if you are outside the radius you don't. All AoE heals are direct heals, no AoE Hot heals. Self heals can be HoT or a direct self heal. Again the strength of these heals may need to be adjusted and balanced.
All special effects that are part of all types of these Dots, HOts, DD, DH of the CC variety would also obey any of these above mentioned rules that were adopted. No over time CC, only single target CC or AoE off of AoE direct damage that doesn't reapply the CC after the initial hit.
Gonna stop there as I probably am already pissing too many people off, but will follow up later with light attack weaving and the effects of it on server performance. It is time to re-think the amount of data that is getting pushed through the pipeline and come up with creative ways to reduce it, while at the same time maintaining current DPS/HPS numbers by pushing fewer larger numbers through rather than more smaller numbers through.
You really don't understand how this works do you
For the layman that sounds great ... Reality ... Probably wouldn't make anything different other than create a boring arse Game that no one wants to play
Simple truth is as numbers drop the number of servers used to create the mega server are also reduced to prevent unneeded overhead costs
This means calculations take longer and are creating lag
Also pings from farther reaching clients take longer to process as the send n return are longer
Influx of people using mobile data instead of fixed line internet is creating lag
All these things need to be addressed first
Merge NA and EU servers so more servers are running
Improve the net code for balancing the send n return times for different regional zones across the globe
Do what bungue did and identify mobile data connections and lock those players from the game (usually kids who's parent turn off the WiFi as punishment so they tether the condone to their phones )
I know a lot of players using mobile who aren't kids. They simply do not have a stable wired connection in very rural areas, and locking them out would be very unjustified.
Not just rural areas. Circumstances in my city led me to a 4G+ wireless service and it basically beats the crap out of my previous landline with slightly better pings and hugely better bandwidth. Quite consistent as well.I know a lot of players using mobile who aren't kids. They simply do not have a stable wired connection in very rural areas, and locking them out would be very unjustified.
There are only 2 ways to reduce the lag in game. Create a bigger pipeline or reduce what travels thru the current pipeline. Since creating a bigger pipeline probably involves overhauling the engine itself lets look at reducing the data that travels through the pipeline. Below I will list ways to do that, some which may stand alone, and some which may be built upon others. Each idea is singular at its heart and a stand alone independent idea, but could be used with others listed for greater effect.
Dots and Hots is where we start. Right now some Dots and Hots tick every 2 seconds, some tick every second, I think some tick every half second. Make all Hots and Dots tick every 2 seconds period, end of discussion. This alone will reduce the data transferred by any Dots and Hots that tick every half second by a factor of 4 and those that tick every second by a factor of 2. The ticks will need to be 2 times and 4 times stronger so that the dps or hps of these abilities in the end is the same, they just pulse much slower. This includes proctato and cheese.
Make Dots and Hots single target only. This will reduce the data transferred by a factor of however many targets that specific ability can hit, or on average does hit. Hots would be self only heals while Dots would only effect 1 single target. They may need to be increased in strength to accommodate the fact that they are only single target. Certain classes may need access to more or better Hots for self healing.
Give direct damage abilities cool downs. Spamables with a damage rating deemed appropriate for a spamable would get a 1 second cooldown. Heavier hitters could get a 2 second cooldown, or a 1 second cooldown and 1 second cast time. These would do more damage than spamables by a significant margin. Complete blasters that would do even more damage, but get a 3 second or more cool down. These can be single target or AoE but are not channeled nor over time abilities.
Heals, get rid of smart targeting. Make all AoE heals so that if you are within the radius you get the heal, if you are outside the radius you don't. All AoE heals are direct heals, no AoE Hot heals. Self heals can be HoT or a direct self heal. Again the strength of these heals may need to be adjusted and balanced.
All special effects that are part of all types of these Dots, HOts, DD, DH of the CC variety would also obey any of these above mentioned rules that were adopted. No over time CC, only single target CC or AoE off of AoE direct damage that doesn't reapply the CC after the initial hit.
Gonna stop there as I probably am already pissing too many people off, but will follow up later with light attack weaving and the effects of it on server performance. It is time to re-think the amount of data that is getting pushed through the pipeline and come up with creative ways to reduce it, while at the same time maintaining current DPS/HPS numbers by pushing fewer larger numbers through rather than more smaller numbers through.
You really don't understand how this works do you
For the layman that sounds great ... Reality ... Probably wouldn't make anything different other than create a boring arse Game that no one wants to play
Simple truth is as numbers drop the number of servers used to create the mega server are also reduced to prevent unneeded overhead costs
This means calculations take longer and are creating lag
Also pings from farther reaching clients take longer to process as the send n return are longer
Influx of people using mobile data instead of fixed line internet is creating lag
All these things need to be addressed first
Merge NA and EU servers so more servers are running
Improve the net code for balancing the send n return times for different regional zones across the globe
Do what bungue did and identify mobile data connections and lock those players from the game (usually kids who's parent turn off the WiFi as punishment so they tether the condone to their phones )
I know a lot of players using mobile who aren't kids. They simply do not have a stable wired connection in very rural areas, and locking them out would be very unjustified.
ditto this, blocking mobile connections is daft - there are some places in the uk where a physical line is slower than the mobile internet at that location.
This is only a problem if the client/server communication uses TCP instead of UDP. Oh, it does... so yeah, it would make a difference.
Or, just do what everyone in the industry knows works well and implement both client side *and* server side prediction.
That way, you don't have to transfer *any* of the information you mentioned in real time, both the client and server predict what needs to happen next but the server never trusts data from the client (which has been ESO single largest flaw), instead the server makes the final choice and sends that to the client.
99% of the time, the client prediction will match the server choice (or be very close to it) and all is well in game land.
That's how many, many games before ESO have done it successfully. ESO should have been setup that way from the beginning but unfortunately whoever was in charge of the "netcode" had no real world experience building real time client/server systems for games.
And now they are either stuck with continuing to add band-aid patches to a flawed system or bite the bullet and redo it correctly.
PS: None of this is new, myself and others made ZOS aware of the shortcomings of their implementation all the way back in beta, months before PC launch.