The secret of many dummy +50k dps test

Artemiisia

This is ofcourse not meant for every test you see, but it gives a direction for people that look at these dummy test where you see 50k-70k+ dps in combat metrics test results, and maybe think did they cheese it.

1. look at what mundus stone they use, many use a different one on dummy then in real (the one that lowers spell penetration)

2. look at what food they use, many use lets say you magicka user, use max mag, max mag recovery, food is called somthing with Eye in it, what you dont see there is their actual health is only 10k when they practice on a dummy

3. they put their champion points in a way so they work better on a dummy then in real fights, like putting tons of cp into getting higher light attack damage, some test have 12-15k dps on just light attacks

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra recovery to their stats. better sustain, and gives an extra +1k dps

5. even the dummy placement can have a huge factor on the results, I saw a mag sorc cheesing using deadric mines, where all mines explodes due to hitting the dummy, when put in a corner, which will never work in real fights.

6. and many other ways to cheese the results

KlotePino

Some of these I had never thought off! Interesting

Raudgrani

True. My changes from "optimal" to realistic, with vet Sanctum Ophidia last night as an example (stamblade).
Switch Beast Trap for Vigor, switch Incap Strike to Bolstering Darkness, switch 2 Medium Velidreth to 2 heavy Velidreth, Switch bi-stat max health/stam to Dubious Camoran Throne (no stamina = dead).

I'm probably pulling 30k on that, instead of 40k (yes, I don't to more than that, no need to comment on that - thank you) at my dummy setup. Difference is, I don't have to sit and watch people trying to resurrect me all the time. I'm sure some can run optimal setup in vet trials, but I can't - and many or most others can't either.

Cpt_Teemo

Not even worth the time to prove your "dps" to everyone

Dragonnord

To be honest, I never cared if people cheese or not dummies. If you do 50-60-70k cheesing or not a dummy, it means you can perform and know your rotation, so then it's just changing mundus, food and adjusting CPs when going to trials.

However, if you cheese and do 30k and less...
 

Gatviper

All the more reason to emphasize that all the glorified dummy test DPS brags won't reflect any of that in real combat situation. There's moving around you've got to do, there's reacting quickly to dangerous mechanics of bosses you might have to counter etc. etc.
Only true tests of dps are the ones posted in a combat, preferably a random PUG where it's often more your skill doing dps than the help of the group. Anything better than that (organized group, good healer / tank) is a cherry on the pie.

KlotePino

Raudgrani wrote: »

True. My changes from "optimal" to realistic, with vet Sanctum Ophidia last night as an example (stamblade).
Switch Beast Trap for Vigor, switch Incap Strike to Bolstering Darkness, switch 2 Medium Velidreth to 2 heavy Velidreth, Switch bi-stat max health/stam to Dubious Camoran Throne (no stamina = dead).

I'm probably pulling 30k on that, instead of 40k (yes, I don't to more than that, no need to comment on that - thank you) at my dummy setup. Difference is, I don't have to sit and watch people trying to resurrect me all the time. I'm sure some can run optimal setup in vet trials, but I can't - and many or most others can't either.

our guild doesn't run optimal because of that reason, we run with lower lvl players as well so it might just be time, but we like having a bit of survivability to spare the healers stress levels. (which would include me:p)

Artemiisia

Dragonnord wrote: »

To be honest, I never cared if people cheese or not dummies. If you do 50-60-70k cheesing or not a dummy, it means you can perform and know your rotation, so then it's just changing mundus, food and adjusting CPs when going to trials.

However, if you cheese and do 30k and less...
 

heheh, true its more for those people that do lots of dummy tests and have like +40k dps without cheesing the test and they cant figure out how to get those high numbers they see others have on some of the cheesed tests

ChunkyCat

The secret I use is to just make up whatever I want.

“Yup. 51k dps test. No big deal. So we doing this trial or what?”

Jameliel

ChunkyCat wrote: »

The secret I use is to just make up whatever I want.

“Yup. 51k dps test. No big deal. So we doing this trial or what?”

This lol.

Raudgrani

KlotePino wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

True. My changes from "optimal" to realistic, with vet Sanctum Ophidia last night as an example (stamblade).
Switch Beast Trap for Vigor, switch Incap Strike to Bolstering Darkness, switch 2 Medium Velidreth to 2 heavy Velidreth, Switch bi-stat max health/stam to Dubious Camoran Throne (no stamina = dead).

I'm probably pulling 30k on that, instead of 40k (yes, I don't to more than that, no need to comment on that - thank you) at my dummy setup. Difference is, I don't have to sit and watch people trying to resurrect me all the time. I'm sure some can run optimal setup in vet trials, but I can't - and many or most others can't either.

our guild doesn't run optimal because of that reason, we run with lower lvl players as well so it might just be time, but we like having a bit of survivability to spare the healers stress levels. (which would include me:p)

I kind of panic too when my only self heal is Briarheart and Leeching Strikes, and some Troll looks and me and picks up a rock; low stamina, AOE's everywhere and really nowhere to dodge. It's pretty stupid alright.
Sure, there might be military disciplined, perfect raid parties, that line up in a position and stay there, everyone resurrect or unpin people to your left - SHIELDWALL, FIGHT! But, I've never been in such a group. We are more like:

- I'm dead!
- Where, where mate?
- Eehm, behind you kind of... (was meant to be on his left)
- I'm picking you up, oh sheez; tank died! I'll defend xxxx (healer), too late!
- Aww, we wiped. Ok, let's try again. Line up...

I actually think it's part of what's fun with the game. You don't have to be afraid people talk *** behind your back, and don't invite you to more trials. We do this together, and everyone can do stupid things. Important thing is you pick something up each time you wipe.

gepe87

Never understood why people show that can pull 50k+ dps. Show off?

I'm satisfied with my 30-33k dps, it was more than enough to get Dungeons skin, vma 7 times. Altough I never run too many vet trials.

I still think that 4man dungeons its were you pratice very well your rotation, first because you dont have help from other 11 playes instead, only tank and healer will help you.
Second, on trials its a little more easier to stack and stay alive, on dungeons one mistake can be a wipe. Few 4-man dungeons let you stay quiet doing your dummy perfect rotation.

Latios

50K DPS is more than enough for anything, and if you pull that with major fracture and minor berserk(the buffs nightblades get by themselves), you’re good to do whatever content you want.

People who “cheese” parses really have nothing better to do.. it’s pretty useless outside of end-game trial discords and showing off.

ATomiX96

Thats why most guilds ask for self-buffed parses with apprentice on mag, lover on stam since they use it in trials as well.
And often they also ask for a Superstar (addon) screenshot which shows your gear, ability bars, mundus stone and cp allocation.

Gatviper

Raudgrani wrote: »

- I'm dead!
- Where, where mate?
- Eehm, behind you kind of... (was meant to be on his left)
- I'm picking you up, oh sheez; tank died! I'll defend xxxx (healer), too late!
- Aww, we wiped. Ok, let's try again. Line up...

I actually think it's part of what's fun with the game. You don't have to be afraid people talk *** behind your back, and don't invite you to more trials. We do this together, and everyone can do stupid things. Important thing is you pick something up each time you wipe.

That sounds like 70% of the vet pugs through Dungeon Finder every day I'm encountering. Even so you're lucky if someone actually bothers to pick you up if you wipe.
I mean it's ok if that happens on a Normal mode dungeon, people can be and are new, they're learning. If you go Veteran, and even if it's just the base game group dungeons and not the DLC ones, you should know where you're going. Mobs have more health on Vet, they hit harder, they have higher mitigations. Like that famous harpy sneeze in Blackheart Haven Vet, where at least one guy usually drops dead. That is if the group makes it through the hordes of pirates at the start of the zone.

FakeFox

Artemiisia wrote: »

2. look at what food they use, many use lets say you magicka user, use max mag, max mag recovery, food is called somthing with Eye in it, what you dont see there is their actual health is only 10k when they practice on a dummy

Ghastly Eye Bowl is a must have for solo testing many raid builds because they otherwise run dry on 6mil dummies without synergies. For builds that use blue food in trials this is no DPS increase at all, as their Magicka stays the same and the loss in regen is made up for by support. For builds that run Clockwork Citrus Filet the difference is ~800 Magicka, which is not a huge DPS increase and the closest we get to representative solo test.

Sparr0w

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Thats why most guilds ask for self-buffed parses with apprentice on mag, lover on stam since they use it in trials as well.
And often they also ask for a Superstar (addon) screenshot which shows your gear, ability bars, mundus stone and cp allocation.

Thief*

Sparr0w

FakeFox wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

2. look at what food they use, many use lets say you magicka user, use max mag, max mag recovery, food is called somthing with Eye in it, what you dont see there is their actual health is only 10k when they practice on a dummy

Ghastly Eye Bowl is a must have for solo testing many raid builds because they otherwise run dry on 6mil dummies without synergies. For builds that use blue food in trials this is no DPS increase at all, as their Magicka stays the same and the loss in regen is made up for by support. For builds that run Clockwork Citrus Filet the difference is ~800 Magicka, which is not a huge DPS increase and the closest we get to representative solo test.

Same with stam and lava foot, if you can sustain a light attack rota in a trial what good is a test where you have to heavy attack?

Artemiisia

FakeFox wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

2. look at what food they use, many use lets say you magicka user, use max mag, max mag recovery, food is called somthing with Eye in it, what you dont see there is their actual health is only 10k when they practice on a dummy

Ghastly Eye Bowl is a must have for solo testing many raid builds because they otherwise run dry on 6mil dummies without synergies. For builds that use blue food in trials this is no DPS increase at all, as their Magicka stays the same and the loss in regen is made up for by support. For builds that run Clockwork Citrus Filet the difference is ~800 Magicka, which is not a huge DPS increase and the closest we get to representative solo test.

its still a fake test, since with that food buff, you gain more dps on the dummy, since you dont need to do any heavy attacks to sustain + you have more magicka also to use from that gives more damage as well, and last having 10k health on a dummy you cant die from well enough said

Katahdin

The problem is that groups want to see that 35 k+ parse on a dunmy before you're ever allowed to step foot into a vet dlc trial with them.

Doesn't matter if you can survive the mechanics, if you don't show that 35-40k on that dummy, you are not going, period

kathandira

Artemiisia wrote: »

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra mag to their stats, and gives an extra +1k dps

Just want to point out that Worm Cult only reduces the cost of your magicka spells.

https://eso-sets.com/set/the-worms-raiment

It is a boost to sustain, but it isn't a "DPS boost" in terms of increasing your damage output.

Shezzarrine

There are things you can do to cheese dummies, but the standard of what is cheese and what is acceptable is set by the group you are showing. For example, every trial guild I've been a part of has allowed orbs to be given because you would get those in a trial anyway with any competent healer. But all of those guilds also only let you have 12k pen because if you have any more you will over pen in a trial situation and therefore do less damage.

Food can be considered cheese (green one star or max resource plus regen) but can also be acceptable for some people if you are not being given orbs because it stimulates trial sustain.

Dummies are pretty reliable measurements IF you know what to look for. If someone is scrolled down and refuses to show the buffs page, chances are they cheesed it. Just because you can cheese a dummy doesnt mean they are not a viable tool, as many people who can't hit decent dps claim.

Artemiisia

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra mag to their stats, and gives an extra +1k dps

Just want to point out that Worm Cult only reduces the cost of your magicka spells.

https://eso-sets.com/set/the-worms-raiment

It is a boost to sustain, but it isn't a "DPS boost" in terms of increasing your damage output.

the better sustain you have on the dummy, less heavy attacks = more dps

but it was more an example, there are even better sets another player can wear in the group, on a target dummy that will boost youre dps like crazy

kathandira

Artemiisia wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra mag to their stats, and gives an extra +1k dps

Just want to point out that Worm Cult only reduces the cost of your magicka spells.

https://eso-sets.com/set/the-worms-raiment

It is a boost to sustain, but it isn't a "DPS boost" in terms of increasing your damage output.

the better sustain you have on the dummy, less heavy attacks = more dps

but it was more an example, there are even better sets another player can wear in the group, on a target dummy that will boost youre dps like crazy

No doubt, was just pointing out what it actually does. It is a DPS boost in terms of sustain without a doubt.

"gives extra mag to their stats" could be seen as it increases your Max Magicka or that it increases your Spell Damage. Only pointed it out so you can maybe update the original post for accuracy.

People ask me why I use Worm Cult on my healer. Well, here is the reason, to boost my teams sustain, ultimately increasing their DPS.

Artemiisia

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra mag to their stats, and gives an extra +1k dps

Just want to point out that Worm Cult only reduces the cost of your magicka spells.

https://eso-sets.com/set/the-worms-raiment

It is a boost to sustain, but it isn't a "DPS boost" in terms of increasing your damage output.

the better sustain you have on the dummy, less heavy attacks = more dps

but it was more an example, there are even better sets another player can wear in the group, on a target dummy that will boost youre dps like crazy

No doubt, was just pointing out what it actually does. It is a DPS boost in terms of sustain without a doubt.

"gives extra mag to their stats" could be seen as it increases your Max Magicka or that it increases your Spell Damage. Only pointed it out so you can maybe update the original post for accuracy.

People ask me why I use Worm Cult on my healer. Well, here is the reason, to boost my teams sustain, ultimately increasing their DPS.

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

4. some people have another player in the group, you cant see, that provides static buffs, like wormcult, that gives extra mag to their stats, and gives an extra +1k dps

Just want to point out that Worm Cult only reduces the cost of your magicka spells.

https://eso-sets.com/set/the-worms-raiment

It is a boost to sustain, but it isn't a "DPS boost" in terms of increasing your damage output.

the better sustain you have on the dummy, less heavy attacks = more dps

but it was more an example, there are even better sets another player can wear in the group, on a target dummy that will boost youre dps like crazy

No doubt, was just pointing out what it actually does. It is a DPS boost in terms of sustain without a doubt.

"gives extra mag to their stats" could be seen as it increases your Max Magicka or that it increases your Spell Damage. Only pointed it out so you can maybe update the original post for accuracy.

People ask me why I use Worm Cult on my healer. Well, here is the reason, to boost my teams sustain, ultimately increasing their DPS.

Thx, I edited my post to recovery

BuddyAces

On warden, in basic raid gear (have non perfected relequin) I can hit around 52.5k on 6 mill dummy self buffed and I'm not an elite end game player. It's all about rotation. I tip my hat at those who can hit above 55k. Just nutty

redlink1979

"Players" can try and cheat their way into vet trial teams but once the real combat starts all the falseness in them will fade away and the truth will be discovered.
I'm proud of the long path I've walked to be able to do the dps I'm currently doing. There's nothing like the fulfillment of being able to achieve the end-game accomplishments.

Daimmyo

I will admit that I don't have that much experience and I wouldn't ever be able to recognize some of these tricks, so thanks for the inputs.

While arguing with certain dudes on this topic about what's real and what's not real I've noticed some of these things.

I mean I do care in a way that I want to improve my DPS - but i don't care that much to stand in front of the dummy and test their claims in front of it.

I don't care about trial score leader-board, it doesn't have any appeal to me.

I don't care about dummy test results as much as people try to put it up on some pedestal, I want to play through the game the way I like to play, the way I enjoy to play, not in a way some other dude is playing it.

I will read about it, listen to the advice, see where I do wrong (if I do it in a wrong way at all), but ultimately this is the game, I will play it in my own way and ultimately it's 0fucksgivenonwhatsomebodyelsegottosayaboutit.

Drako_Ei

Raudgrani wrote: »

True. My changes from "optimal" to realistic, with vet Sanctum Ophidia last night as an example (stamblade).
Switch Beast Trap for Vigor, switch Incap Strike to Bolstering Darkness, switch 2 Medium Velidreth to 2 heavy Velidreth, Switch bi-stat max health/stam to Dubious Camoran Throne (no stamina = dead).

I'm probably pulling 30k on that, instead of 40k (yes, I don't to more than that, no need to comment on that - thank you) at my dummy setup. Difference is, I don't have to sit and watch people trying to resurrect me all the time. I'm sure some can run optimal setup in vet trials, but I can't - and many or most others can't either.

Trap!? why remove the trap!?

Raudgrani

Gatviper wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

- I'm dead!
- Where, where mate?
- Eehm, behind you kind of... (was meant to be on his left)
- I'm picking you up, oh sheez; tank died! I'll defend xxxx (healer), too late!
- Aww, we wiped. Ok, let's try again. Line up...

I actually think it's part of what's fun with the game. You don't have to be afraid people talk *** behind your back, and don't invite you to more trials. We do this together, and everyone can do stupid things. Important thing is you pick something up each time you wipe.

That sounds like 70% of the vet pugs through Dungeon Finder every day I'm encountering. Even so you're lucky if someone actually bothers to pick you up if you wipe.
I mean it's ok if that happens on a Normal mode dungeon, people can be and are new, they're learning. If you go Veteran, and even if it's just the base game group dungeons and not the DLC ones, you should know where you're going. Mobs have more health on Vet, they hit harder, they have higher mitigations. Like that famous harpy sneeze in Blackheart Haven Vet, where at least one guy usually drops dead. That is if the group makes it through the hordes of pirates at the start of the zone.

Yeah, dungeon finder is a bit different. I don't bother to pick people up if the boss is at 5% or so, of course depending on a number of factors. A dungeon boss has some X00K left, and I might handle it in seconds - but I can't handle being beaten at by a boss, trying to resurrect a wiped group (if I'm not on tank, of course). That's for sure. It's however really embarrassing if you do die, trying to "one man" a boss while everyone's watching - and you maybe could have resurrected.
A vet TRIAL boss though, they can have millions left in health well beneath "execute phase", and I can't handle that hahaha.... I mostly do trials with friends, or "friends of friends", and all of them are pretty polite, friendly and forgiving, doing their best to resurrect people and so forth. I HAVE been in some trial group with really uptight people too. Luckily enough on a tank, and I did my job and didn't die once - and I wasn't blamed for anything either. But I felt genuinely uncomfortable by things they said etc. about others. These guys make (in game) gold from running people to get skins etc. They accept no mistakes.

FakeFox

Artemiisia wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

Artemiisia wrote: »

2. look at what food they use, many use lets say you magicka user, use max mag, max mag recovery, food is called somthing with Eye in it, what you dont see there is their actual health is only 10k when they practice on a dummy

Ghastly Eye Bowl is a must have for solo testing many raid builds because they otherwise run dry on 6mil dummies without synergies. For builds that use blue food in trials this is no DPS increase at all, as their Magicka stays the same and the loss in regen is made up for by support. For builds that run Clockwork Citrus Filet the difference is ~800 Magicka, which is not a huge DPS increase and the closest we get to representative solo test.

its still a fake test, since with that food buff, you gain more dps on the dummy, since you dont need to do any heavy attacks to sustain + you have more magicka also to use from that gives more damage as well, and last having 10k health on a dummy you cant die from well enough said

Did you understand anything I said? Guess not.