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Damage scaling on AoE ultimates

Irylia
Irylia
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ultimates like standard, nova, sleet, destro, negate and veil of blades should have a similar proxy det scaling on their damage.

So when an aoe train is running over clumps below 6 those individuals aren’t being hit nearly as hard as if you hit a group of 12+

Since proxy hits once the amount of boosting % it gets makes sense. Aoe ultimates would have to be tweaked differently because they are damage dealt over x seconds.

Start the overall tooltip Lower for these ults and then scale it by 15% per player hit, starting at 6+ players and capping at 150%
6 = 15% more
7 = 30%
8 = 45%
9 = 60%
....
15 = 150%

Unorganized or individual players can now make more of a difference with a high impact ult on larger/organized groups.

There is already the reward of more players/skills/sets/buffs when stacked into larger groups but now the risk is you will take more damage or at the very least be far more susceptible to it.



  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    I'd be concerned about any added server calculations (having to tally per target per tick and apply an additional % modifier), and I don't know that it needs to be a universal thing on EVERY AoE ult, but in theory it sounds cool.

    It could be a nice way to up the popularity of ground-placed ults (Nova, Veil, etc.) in PvP.

    Could even just give the Entire ult a % modifier based on how many targets the first tick/initial drop hits?
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  • Syhae
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    I like this proposal.
    I believe they should also consider doing the opposite for AoE heal potency
    In other words, the more people standing within an AoE heal, the less potent the heal each individual in the AoE receives.
    Edited by Syhae on December 13, 2018 4:42PM
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  • Irylia
    Irylia
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    I'd be concerned about any added server calculations (having to tally per target per tick and apply an additional % modifier), and I don't know that it needs to be a universal thing on EVERY AoE ult, but in theory it sounds cool.

    It could be a nice way to up the popularity of ground-placed ults (Nova, Veil, etc.) in PvP.

    Could even just give the Entire ult a % modifier based on how many targets the first tick/initial drop hits?

    Something
    I just don’t think they should be doing nearly as much damage as they are to smaller groups or the individual player
    It’s mindless damage to begin with and by scaling per tick or initial hit for players hit then it punishes players for running around with a massive group

    But I get you with the server performance.
    If I had my way destro and sleet wouldn’t be mobile ults
  • SaintSubwayy
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    Syhae wrote: »
    I like this proposal.
    I believe they should also consider doing the opposite for AoE heal potency
    In other words, the more people standing within an AoE heal, the less potent the heal each individual in the AoE receives.

    jes, but only in PVP
    PVE doesnt need that
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  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
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    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?
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  • _Ahala_
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    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?

    Actually this would be a buff to true zerg killing as the 15+ player scaling would 150%... can’t say I like what it would do to dueling though when it comes to classes that rely on aoe ults
  • ESO_Nightingale
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    _Ahala_ wrote: »
    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?

    Actually this would be a buff to true zerg killing as the 15+ player scaling would 150%... can’t say I like what it would do to dueling though when it comes to classes that rely on aoe ults

    My bad. I didnt read it properly.
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  • Irylia
    Irylia
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    Syhae wrote: »
    I like this proposal.
    I believe they should also consider doing the opposite for AoE heal potency
    In other words, the more people standing within an AoE heal, the less potent the heal each individual in the AoE receives.

    jes, but only in PVP
    PVE doesnt need that

    Proxy det scales in pve based on mobs nearby
    Your aoe ults would be stronger in trash pulls and then you’d use meteor for bosses
  • Irylia
    Irylia
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    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?
    _Ahala_ wrote: »
    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?

    You do more damage to zergs and organized raids and the raids do less to singles/small clusters of people with their aoe train.

    Actually this would be a buff to true zerg killing as the 15+ player scaling would 150%... can’t say I like what it would do to dueling though when it comes to classes that rely on aoe ults

    Meteor/soul assault/db available to all
    Warden has bear
    Dk has leap
    Nb has incap
    Sorc uses atro
    Templar has aedric ult

    These aoe ults aren’t used in duels aside from a warden sleet and it’s still subpar at that
  • usmcjdking
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    Irylia wrote: »
    ultimates like standard, nova, sleet, destro, negate and veil of blades should have a similar proxy det scaling on their damage.

    So when an aoe train is running over clumps below 6 those individuals aren’t being hit nearly as hard as if you hit a group of 12+

    Since proxy hits once the amount of boosting % it gets makes sense. Aoe ultimates would have to be tweaked differently because they are damage dealt over x seconds.

    Start the overall tooltip Lower for these ults and then scale it by 15% per player hit, starting at 6+ players and capping at 150%
    6 = 15% more
    7 = 30%
    8 = 45%
    9 = 60%
    ....
    15 = 150%

    Unorganized or individual players can now make more of a difference with a high impact ult on larger/organized groups.

    There is already the reward of more players/skills/sets/buffs when stacked into larger groups but now the risk is you will take more damage or at the very least be far more susceptible to it.



    I somewhat agree but do not believe this scaling should be extended outside of targeted AOE ultimates. Sleet is powerful enough as is largely because it's mobile.
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  • p00tx
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    Yeah, I dig this, as long as the adjusted parameters only apply to enemy players. It needs to remain as is for NPCs.
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  • pieratsos
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    That would actually be a huge buff to AOE trains.
  • Juhasow
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    Calculations for that would be an issue. There is a difference between ability that hits once and dmg multiplier is based on number of enemies that were in area of damage at that point and ability that lasts couple of seconds on the ground and people walk in and out of it dynamically changing multiplier.
  • Ragnarock41
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    No you can only end ball groups by reducing the efficiency of braindead 1 press wonder defensive abilities and ultimates. Ball groups are very often literally invincible for individual players, you can't just pick them one by one, because aoe buffs, aoe heals, purges for everyone...

    İncreasing the efficiency of aoe abilities or ultimates will most likely make ball groups stronger since they can afford to have players that specialize in those roles.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on December 15, 2018 2:47PM
  • Vuron
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    I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it, but I have a weird problem with mechanics that I can't fit into the "reality" test.

    The destro ult is basically a rain of fire or some are like standing in fire. A person is going to take the same amount of damage standing in a pool of fire by themselves or with 11 other people so I just can't wrap my head around the change.... weird.
  • Merlight
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    Vuron wrote: »
    I understand what you're saying and why you're saying it, but I have a weird problem with mechanics that I can't fit into the "reality" test.

    The destro ult is basically a rain of fire or some are like standing in fire. A person is going to take the same amount of damage standing in a pool of fire by themselves or with 11 other people so I just can't wrap my head around the change.... weird.

    What's worse? Standing in a rain of fire, or standing in a rain of fire surrounded by 11 people on fire?
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  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
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    Irylia wrote: »
    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?
    _Ahala_ wrote: »
    so you would remove more zerg killing tools?

    You do more damage to zergs and organized raids and the raids do less to singles/small clusters of people with their aoe train.

    Actually this would be a buff to true zerg killing as the 15+ player scaling would 150%... can’t say I like what it would do to dueling though when it comes to classes that rely on aoe ults

    Meteor/soul assault/db available to all
    Warden has bear
    Dk has leap
    Nb has incap
    Sorc uses atro
    Templar has aedric ult

    These aoe ults aren’t used in duels aside from a warden sleet and it’s still subpar at that

    Warden has bear? If zos undoes that 30% damage nerf I will agree... thing is useless now that it doesn’t have rediculously high damage to counteract it’s bad ai and position based limitations... also northern is a god send in duels if you build for it with clever balorgs infused berserk enchant etc as it it’s guaranteed damage if you can keep your target in melee... meteor is too highly telegraphed to be used on a class with no block dropping stun... soul assault is good against medium armor builds only... db doesn’t scale with spell pen and warden doesn’t have the weapon damage/physical damage passives to make up for that drawback like sorc does...

    While this change would be great for open world 1vX and Zerg bombing it would have disastrous consequences for dueling... we really don’t need any new systems or rules that result in Magden being collateral damage

    As a middle ground... how about they make all ults do scaling increased damage to players past a certain population threshold without reducing the base damage of the skill... ie no change from 0-10 but then with 10% more against each player after that cap up to a max of 150% damage against 15+ players... we can push a reverse aoe cap system without further nerfing our classes
    Edited by _Ahala_ on December 15, 2018 5:07PM
  • lucky_Sage
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    Nova has it's purpose in PvP because it has major maim
    Veil doesn't see any real use standard is costly and the only thing it does for group is major defile which is very early got some where else. It use to be better pre nerf to standard but it's just not worth 250 ult it should be 200 or be 225 and give the 15% dmg buff and reduction buff to allies in it and make the synergy pull and root.
    Or give major heroism to allies in it and major coward to enemies would be very cool and have a good place for group PvP to give dks something to bring to group
    Edited by lucky_Sage on December 15, 2018 5:12PM
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  • Irylia
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    That would actually be a huge buff to AOE trains.

    Why? They are in 12-24 themselves.
    So they would be on the receiving end of more damage aoe ults while to be efficient with the higher dmg ults they would have to consistently face atleast equal or greater number foes (stacked up and not spread out).

  • Irylia
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    Juhasow wrote: »
    Calculations for that would be an issue. There is a difference between ability that hits once and dmg multiplier is based on number of enemies that were in area of damage at that point and ability that lasts couple of seconds on the ground and people walk in and out of it dynamically changing multiplier.

    So you mean like aoe caps and how the lag is hardly any different when we had those calculations and now that we didn’t.
    These are just inverse aoe caps and proxy det if it was a dot.
    Edited by Irylia on December 17, 2018 3:59PM
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