Why do people lie about their FPS?

MLGProPlayer

It's not uncommon to see someone in-game or on Reddit proclaim that they run this game at a stable 100+ FPS, even in Cyrodiil. They will vehemently argue that the game has no optimization issues, as if lying about this gets them some sort of prize.

I get into frequent arguments on Reddit about this. Whenever I ask for proof of them running the game at 100+ FPs, I never get a response. There is quite a large contingent of these shills though as they actively downvote any posts criticising the game's optimization.

I do remember one interaction with a guildie who said he averaged "buttery smooth" FPS. We argued for a bit, and it turned out he didn't even have his FPS counter turned on. So I told him to turn his counter on and read his FPS out to me. Turns out he was averaging ~45 FPS, unsurprisingly.

Anyway, just a random rant.

ghastley

Well, of course. Do you understand just how much your frame rate is adversely affected by counting it? It's a HUGE overhead.

tmbrinks

luckily, your eye only need 30 fps to register "smooth" motion (unless things are moving really, really fast) So, 45 FPS will appear to be "smooth"

Cruxanero

Came here expecting you had misspelled "DPS". Was disappointed.

TheGreatBlackBear

Lol. I read your title as why do people lie about their DPS. That's a problem too.

Salvas_Aren

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

yodased

Why do people lie about anything in this manner? To feel superior.

It's not just about the stability of their fibre optic internet, that you don't have, its that they also have a computer expensive enough to run an unoptimized game at full settings, nothing can stop the beast of their rig.

If you are familiar with monitor technology they are also bragging that they have a superior monitor than you because the refresh rate is 120mhz and not 60mhz which will put a physical limit on the amount of frames that can be rendered by hardware it self.

Why do people take pictures in front of mercedes in the parking lot or buy clothes they can't afford then wear them to the party with the tags tucked to return later?

People want other people to be jealous of them, or envious, depends on the person. Regardless of the motivation we are a comparison based intelligence. If you have something that another doesn't you feel better they feel worse and you win.

Best to ignore such things and arguing with someone like that asking for legitimate proof is only going to have people clamshell and start attacking you personally, because if they really were not having any issues and everything was great, they wouldn't be interacting with the people that did, they wouldn't be on reddit boasting. They would be playing their silky smooth game.

Giving them attention is literally what they want, they need you to pay attention to them so they can feel some kind of way.

MLGProPlayer

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

These are folks who are saying they get that performance at 1080p/1440p/4K.

It just sends a mixed message to ZOS about the game's performance. We know the game runs like ass, but then you have some players giving false feedback that it runs great.

tmbrinks

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

These are folks who are saying they get that performance at 1080p/1440p/4K.

It just sends a mixed message to ZOS about the game's performance. We know the game runs like ass, but then you have some players giving false feedback that it runs great.

Personally, I rarely go below 40 FPS. The game runs fine, if you have a high-end system. A lot of people are trying to run the game on a potato, and then complain about FPS issues.

Is it perfect? No. Nothing is.

Tandor

I don't see how a figure taken at one specific moment in time in one particular game situation can possibly tell anything about overall performance. So far as FPS figures are concerned, however, I think there are two camps of players - those whose feel of the game is such they never see the need even to find out what the FPS is, and those who over-obsess about the statistics as if they are the only thing that determines whether they are allowed to enjoy a game. Indeed, I have encountered many forum posters in the past who won't even consider playing a game at all if they aren't guaranteed a consistent FPS rate way, way over that at which differences in motion can be detected. That may possibly be a factor in some game genres, but it isn't in most MMORPGs.

Salvas_Aren

These folks maybe own a high end rack next to a big networking node. Maybe they are aware of this and make unrealistic claims in favour of Zeni. Maybe because they like the game, maybe because they have been given additional incentives.

MLGProPlayer

tmbrinks wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

These are folks who are saying they get that performance at 1080p/1440p/4K.

It just sends a mixed message to ZOS about the game's performance. We know the game runs like ass, but then you have some players giving false feedback that it runs great.

Personally, I rarely go below 40 FPS. The game runs fine, if you have a high-end system. A lot of people are trying to run the game on a potato, and then complain about FPS issues.

Is it perfect? No. Nothing is.

40 FPS is terrible for a high-end system, especially for a 4+ year-old game.

I'm an FPS snob. I have a GTX 1080 and a 144 hz monitor, and a game that frequently dips below 60 FPS is poorly optimzied. The game only uses like 30% of your GPU's processing power. Even at 4K resolution, it only uses around 75%. It's a CPU-bound game.

I like the game. It's fun. But it also runs like absolute ass. There is no need to lie about that fact.

ZeroXFF

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

This is not true about resolution. This would help with a GPU bottleneck, but that is rarely an issue in ESO. I get around 45fps both with my old HD7850 and the new RX580 in grahtwood (standing on top of the stairs looking at the wayshrine), even though the RX580 is literally 3x faster. Neither of these GPUs is at 100% load there.

What is at 100% though, is a single thread on the CPU. That's what's limiting FPS. So someone running with an i7 8700k@5.2GHz instead of an R7 1700@3.85GHz might very well run at smooth 60-80FPS (doubt the 100 figure anywhere even slightly crowded). But even then it will drop to the 40s in trials and cyro zergs.

Synthwavius

People tend to lie about numbers

VaranisArano

ghastley wrote: »

Well, of course. Do you understand just how much your frame rate is adversely affected by counting it? It's a HUGE overhead.

Schroedinger's FPS?

BuddyAces

With small group action I hover 60-100 fps. Full on scale kick you to log in screen lagged out zergs I barely ever drop below 40.

FlyingSwan

Thing is that you can get 100FPS in the game in certain cases. I have it capped at 144 and I can get that at 2k, but only in the wilderness and only on some occasions.

I am in Cyrodiil right now and getting 90-108FPS but I am alone and running about in the trees without another soul in sight.

However, port into a trial and my FPS will drop to 25FPS and sometimes even less. When the last event was on I ended up ditching many trials as the game was running so badly as to be a slideshow.

So those people are twisting the facts, any of us can pick a specific use case where the game runs well, but chuck a bit of server-side effort into the mix and the whole thing drops off a cliff.

tmbrinks

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

You can play at 100 FPS easily if you downgrade your resolution to 480p.

FPS mean nothing without context.

These are folks who are saying they get that performance at 1080p/1440p/4K.

It just sends a mixed message to ZOS about the game's performance. We know the game runs like ass, but then you have some players giving false feedback that it runs great.

Personally, I rarely go below 40 FPS. The game runs fine, if you have a high-end system. A lot of people are trying to run the game on a potato, and then complain about FPS issues.

Is it perfect? No. Nothing is.

40 FPS is terrible for a high-end system, especially for a 4+ year-old game.

I'm an FPS snob. I have a GTX 1080 and a 144 hz monitor, and a game that frequently dips below 60 FPS is poorly optimzied. The game only uses like 30% of your GPU's processing power. Even at 4K resolution, it only uses around 75%. It's a CPU-bound game.

I like the game. It's fun. But it also runs like absolute ass. There is no need to lie about that fact.

rarely is a key word here. Like Refab committee in vHoF... or 2, 40+ Zergballs in pvp coming together. Reading comprehension and word choice was very important here.

I say rarely, you say frequently... quite a difference in the meaning of those words.

p00tx

Some people desperately need attention and will consistently act contrarily in order to garner that attention. It takes all kinds.

BuddyAces

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Thing is that you can get 100FPS in the game in certain cases. I have it capped at 144 and I can get that at 2k, but only in the wilderness and only on some occasions.

I am in Cyrodiil right now and getting 90-108FPS but I am alone and running about in the trees without another soul in sight.

However, port into a trial and my FPS will drop to 25FPS and sometimes even less. When the last event was on I ended up ditching many trials as the game was running so badly as to be a slideshow.

So those people are twisting the facts, any of us can pick a specific use case where the game runs well, but chuck a bit of server-side effort into the mix and the whole thing drops off a cliff.

Old non gaming comp and there were maybe 2 boss fights I seen over 30 with all settings on low. Bought an actual gaming comp this summer and other than some random stutters I barely see below 50 in trials now. I use to think people lied about their fps. Not anymore.

eso_nya

I like fps braggzards. Most willl be insistent to see a difference between 100 and 120 fps, while playing on a 60Hz monitor xD

Jhalin

If you shrink down the window size of the game then you can boost your FPS real quick, but the game is shrunk sooo

FlyingSwan

BuddyAces wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Thing is that you can get 100FPS in the game in certain cases. I have it capped at 144 and I can get that at 2k, but only in the wilderness and only on some occasions.

I am in Cyrodiil right now and getting 90-108FPS but I am alone and running about in the trees without another soul in sight.

However, port into a trial and my FPS will drop to 25FPS and sometimes even less. When the last event was on I ended up ditching many trials as the game was running so badly as to be a slideshow.

So those people are twisting the facts, any of us can pick a specific use case where the game runs well, but chuck a bit of server-side effort into the mix and the whole thing drops off a cliff.

Old non gaming comp and there were maybe 2 boss fights I seen over 30 with all settings on low. Bought an actual gaming comp this summer and other than some random stutters I barely see below 50 in trials now. I use to think people lied about their fps. Not anymore.

The game can run well, I was at Breda earlier and even with all those people running about I had 60FPS at 2k on Ultra-high. BUT, it can easily become unplayable on even the best kit (I have 1080Ti and 8770K). There are specific areas in MoL that are very taxing for some reason, and in HRM there are certain areas in HRC that can be a total slideshow.

My GPU only works at about 50% effort even if the CPU is also only around 50% across all cores, so there's something else holding it up, from using Perfmon it appears to be threads waiting on data from the network that causes a bottleneck when it arises.

ZeroXFF

FlyingSwan wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Thing is that you can get 100FPS in the game in certain cases. I have it capped at 144 and I can get that at 2k, but only in the wilderness and only on some occasions.

I am in Cyrodiil right now and getting 90-108FPS but I am alone and running about in the trees without another soul in sight.

However, port into a trial and my FPS will drop to 25FPS and sometimes even less. When the last event was on I ended up ditching many trials as the game was running so badly as to be a slideshow.

So those people are twisting the facts, any of us can pick a specific use case where the game runs well, but chuck a bit of server-side effort into the mix and the whole thing drops off a cliff.

Old non gaming comp and there were maybe 2 boss fights I seen over 30 with all settings on low. Bought an actual gaming comp this summer and other than some random stutters I barely see below 50 in trials now. I use to think people lied about their fps. Not anymore.

The game can run well, I was at Breda earlier and even with all those people running about I had 60FPS at 2k on Ultra-high. BUT, it can easily become unplayable on even the best kit (I have 1080Ti and 8770K). There are specific areas in MoL that are very taxing for some reason, and in HRM there are certain areas in HRC that can be a total slideshow.

My GPU only works at about 50% effort even if the CPU is also only around 50% across all cores, so there's something else holding it up, from using Perfmon it appears to be threads waiting on data from the network that causes a bottleneck when it arises.

Try standing in Fang Lair in the center of the room of the last boss and turn camera towards the entrance. You'll see a massive FPS drop. This cannot be caused by network problems, because what data you load from the network is not changed depending on what direction you look, only your position, especially in a dungeon.

Use Process Explorer (can get it for free from the Microsoft website), find the ESO process, select properties and look at the threads of the process. You will see 1 thread at 100/[CPU thread count]% load (so in my case it's 6.25% for my 8c/16t CPU). That's a thread that is basically at 100% on a single core.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the draw calls all come from the same thread, and that thread is pegged when there are a lot of objects in front of the camera within view distance.

DX12/Vulkan actually do address this issue, but it has to be implemented correctly in the engine and by game devs to take advantage of this feature.

Until that is done, the only thing that would help performance would be reduction of necessary draw calls, for example with smart object culling before they get to the thread doing the draw calls. I suspect that a kind of failed attempt to do exactly that is what caused the few months old bug that results in textures disappearing sometimes.

Mureel

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

It's not uncommon to see someone in-game or on Reddit proclaim that they run this game at a stable 100+ FPS, even in Cyrodiil. They will vehemently argue that the game has no optimization issues, as if lying about this gets them some sort of prize.

I get into frequent arguments on Reddit about this. Whenever I ask for proof of them running the game at 100+ FPs, I never get a response. There is quite a large contingent of these shills though as they actively downvote any posts criticising the game's optimization.

I do remember one interaction with a guildie who said he averaged "buttery smooth" FPS. We argued for a bit, and it turned out he didn't even have his FPS counter turned on. So I told him to turn his counter on and read his FPS out to me. Turns out he was averaging ~45 FPS, unsurprisingly.

Anuway, just a random rant.

It’s probably because their pants are on fire.

FlyingSwan

ZeroXFF wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

FlyingSwan wrote: »

Thing is that you can get 100FPS in the game in certain cases. I have it capped at 144 and I can get that at 2k, but only in the wilderness and only on some occasions.

I am in Cyrodiil right now and getting 90-108FPS but I am alone and running about in the trees without another soul in sight.

However, port into a trial and my FPS will drop to 25FPS and sometimes even less. When the last event was on I ended up ditching many trials as the game was running so badly as to be a slideshow.

So those people are twisting the facts, any of us can pick a specific use case where the game runs well, but chuck a bit of server-side effort into the mix and the whole thing drops off a cliff.

Old non gaming comp and there were maybe 2 boss fights I seen over 30 with all settings on low. Bought an actual gaming comp this summer and other than some random stutters I barely see below 50 in trials now. I use to think people lied about their fps. Not anymore.

The game can run well, I was at Breda earlier and even with all those people running about I had 60FPS at 2k on Ultra-high. BUT, it can easily become unplayable on even the best kit (I have 1080Ti and 8770K). There are specific areas in MoL that are very taxing for some reason, and in HRM there are certain areas in HRC that can be a total slideshow.

My GPU only works at about 50% effort even if the CPU is also only around 50% across all cores, so there's something else holding it up, from using Perfmon it appears to be threads waiting on data from the network that causes a bottleneck when it arises.

Try standing in Fang Lair in the center of the room of the last boss and turn camera towards the entrance. You'll see a massive FPS drop. This cannot be caused by network problems, because what data you load from the network is not changed depending on what direction you look, only your position, especially in a dungeon.

Use Process Explorer (can get it for free from the Microsoft website), find the ESO process, select properties and look at the threads of the process. You will see 1 thread at 100/[CPU thread count]% load (so in my case it's 6.25% for my 8c/16t CPU). That's a thread that is basically at 100% on a single core.

I suspect it has more to do with the fact that the draw calls all come from the same thread, and that thread is pegged when there are a lot of objects in front of the camera within view distance.

DX12/Vulkan actually do address this issue, but it has to be implemented correctly in the engine and by game devs to take advantage of this feature.

Until that is done, the only thing that would help performance would be reduction of necessary draw calls, for example with smart object culling before they get to the thread doing the draw calls. I suspect that a kind of failed attempt to do exactly that is what caused the few months old bug that results in textures disappearing sometimes.

Well, the game is DX11 and that has limited multi-threading ability, as you allude to, so things will all resolve back to the main thread eventually. However, the game does not always max the main thread out on my PC, which is what makes me think it's not always bound by that thread. The main thread is often found in a wait state if you check with Perfmon, but it's not clear what it's waiting on as it has no other thread dependencies at those points, although other threads will all be waiting on it at these points.

D0PAMINE

It's odd because it will show 100 fps for me but the latency will way too high to be that smooth.

tplink3r1

45 is fps is butter smooth to me for a game like this.
Just because he thinks his game is running smoothly at 45 fps doesn't mean he was lying, like you implied.

kypranb14_ESO

I mean, I do get a steady 60 FPS @ 1080p, all settings Ultra in overland, battlegrounds, and dungeons. I've only done a few trials during the witches festival, and honestly was too busy with the trial to pay attention to my FPS. I don't bother with uncapping my FPS because there is no noticeable difference between 60 FPS and 100 FPS in ESO.

I also can say that add-ons have a very negative impact on performance. By adding Lorebooks, Skyshards, Combat Metrics, and Elder Bar, My average FPS in a battleground drops from 60, to 50.


System Specs:
i7 7700k @ 4.2Ghz
1080GTX 8GB
500GB Sata III Samsung 860 Evo SSD
16GB DDR4 3400 RAM


*DISCLAIMER: I play with grass turned off, for easy alchemy farming. I play with all ally effects turned on, I prefer to see ally abilities so I can work with my team better.

Rain_Greyraven

I get between 55 and 60 FPS regularly, It's has a lot to do with what platform you're playing on your knowledge of routers and network cards etc.

I will freely admit that no game should require that however.

phairdon

My fps is all over the place. Can be as high as 54fps and as low as 13fps. What baffles me, are the large fps drops in non populated area's. The best example was in Alikir. The area where the ships and zombies are, near one of the dolmens. The stuttering, fps drop & lag spike in that particular area was insane. My ping hit 1951, fps was around 13. Could not interact with anything. Rarely had trouble with lag & fps in previous years, outside of Cyrodiil. Feels like its becoming progressively worse in all zones. Stornhelm in Rivenspire is very laggy area.