Sorcerer Combo Rotation

MalagenR

Yo -

Am I wrong that the typical rotation is -

LA - Curse - LA - Reach - Meteor - LA - Wrath - LA Frags?

I'm starting to think that it's to easy to read and have been having success with:

LA - Curse - LA - Meteor - Roll Dodge Cancel Reach - LA - Wrath - LA - Frags

Or do you all switch it up depending on whether or not they are reading you?

Thanks,

Mal

WrathOfInnos

I think you’re right that Meteor should be before reach, since it has a longer travel time. Then if you can land the reach before they start blocking the meteor they will be stunned when the meteor lands.

eso_nya

Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Repeat? No?

MalagenR

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think you’re right that Meteor should be before reach, since it has a longer travel time. Then if you can land the reach before they start blocking the meteor they will be stunned when the meteor lands.

Yeah exactly. On the flip side - I can't seem to get the Rune Cage timing correct. I'm starting to think Rune Cage should flow with a different ultimate, perhaps Overload.

LA - Curse - Overload On - LA - Frags - LA - Rune Cage - LA - Pulse - LA Wrath

yay or nay? is it enough damage?

MalagenR

eso_nya wrote: »

Elemental Weapon -> LA -> Repeat? No?

Not if you want to kill even a halfway decent player. No.

Waffennacht

It's LA Curse Shield Shield Shield LA Flop over from 3 Snipes

Or LA Curse Flop

Or LA Curse LA Meteor LA Reach LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Meteor LA Wrath (repeat) give up because sorcerer can't kill an equally skilled opponent

MalagenR

Waffennacht wrote: »

It's LA Curse Shield Shield Shield LA Flop over from 3 Snipes

Or LA Curse Flop

Or LA Curse LA Meteor LA Reach LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Meteor LA Wrath (repeat) give up because sorcerer can't kill an equally skilled opponent

It really is pathetic how telegraphed the entire combination is and how narrow the windows are now from the shield nerf. They really threw our class into a dumpster fire. I've been seriously considering a Torug's + Sloads build.

Malamar1229

You can't land a rune cage and meteor combo anymore unless lag assists you.

And welcome to Sorcs 2018, where telegraphed burst rotations are shut down by everyone except brain dead zerglings.

ccmedaddy

I'm still confused by the Rune Cage change. Like... who asked for this?

edit: sorry I just realized how off-topic my comment is. I just hate the reach spam playstyle and I didn't really mind the Wolfhunter version of Rune Cage so...

MalagenR

Malamar1229 wrote: »

You can't land a rune cage and meteor combo anymore unless lag assists you.

And welcome to Sorcs 2018, where telegraphed burst rotations are shut down by everyone except brain dead zerglings.

Yeah, I mean, no other class has a signal like curse. Curse being put on you is like a heads up in 3 seconds you need to dodge or block.

That coupled with the shield nerf makes it almost impossible to land the combination, so when you do, because it's so easily telegraphed, they absorb it.

I either fight to a draw or have to run away due to limitless sustain for stamina classes.

I don't get how they could make this change to shields.... it was so stupid....

dagonbeer

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I'm still confused by the Rune Cage change. Like... who asked for this?

They overbuffed and then compromised with a overall nerf.

Thogard

I’m running a very non-traditional build to get away from the whole telegraph thing. Crushing shock and infused oblivion is bae.

It’s a bg / no cp build for sure:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=w0JxQnJUdnE

Includes gameplay footage of sotha and BG with narration on how the build should be played.

Jsmalls

The current balance of this game makes me sick to my stomach.

In the past:

You didn't need ultimates in 1v1s.
Fights only lasted upward of a minute if both players executed flawlessly.
It wasn't beneficial to stack highly into defense, with low damage.
Abilities hurt.
There was counterplay for Xv1


There is a reason PvP in this game has COMPLETELY dropped off. On Xbox prime time isn't even filling both campaigns. There used to be 4-5 Vet campaigns with 3-4 of them 100% full during prime time.

Sewers are a ghost town.

This was my favorite game for 2-3 years following console release. Now it's a ghost of what it used to be. Sighhh

grannas211

Thogard wrote: »

I’m running a very non-traditional build to get away from the whole telegraph thing. Crushing shock and infused oblivion is bae.

It’s a bg / no cp build for sure:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=w0JxQnJUdnE

Includes gameplay footage of sotha and BG with narration on how the build should be played.

Interesting take. Nice video. Please tell me your fashion though. It’s OP

Thogard

grannas211 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m running a very non-traditional build to get away from the whole telegraph thing. Crushing shock and infused oblivion is bae.

It’s a bg / no cp build for sure:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=w0JxQnJUdnE

Includes gameplay footage of sotha and BG with narration on how the build should be played.

Interesting take. Nice video. Please tell me your fashion though. It’s OP

Traditional blue button down shirt with the sleeves rolled up, north face vest, and extremely pale skin.

Or were you asking about the character?

grannas211

Thogard wrote: »

grannas211 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

I’m running a very non-traditional build to get away from the whole telegraph thing. Crushing shock and infused oblivion is bae.

It’s a bg / no cp build for sure:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=w0JxQnJUdnE

Includes gameplay footage of sotha and BG with narration on how the build should be played.

Interesting take. Nice video. Please tell me your fashion though. It’s OP

Traditional blue button down shirt with the sleeves rolled up, north face vest, and extremely pale skin.

Or were you asking about the character?

Both of course

Derra

MalagenR wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think you’re right that Meteor should be before reach, since it has a longer travel time. Then if you can land the reach before they start blocking the meteor they will be stunned when the meteor lands.

Yeah exactly. On the flip side - I can't seem to get the Rune Cage timing correct. I'm starting to think Rune Cage should flow with a different ultimate, perhaps Overload.

LA - Curse - Overload On - LA - Frags - LA - Rune Cage - LA - Pulse - LA Wrath

yay or nay? is it enough damage?

You can´t get the timing right because the abilities no longer sync up. It´s not possible to land meteor unblocked with how runecage currently works.

Overload is dodgeable - it will naturally push people towards dodging it. Cage is dodgeable aswell. It also deals no dmg. They´re not a really desireable combination to use.

Reality is - the only people that will let you land a full burst rotation are those that you don´t need one to kill or tanks that you can´t kill with one.

Beardimus

Agree with all the comments that they have sucked the fun out of playing sorc. It's a mess at the mo

Beardimus

Waffennacht wrote: »

It's LA Curse Shield Shield Shield LA Flop over from 3 Snipes

Or LA Curse Flop

Or LA Curse LA Meteor LA Reach LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Wrath LA Curse LA Frag LA Meteor LA Wrath (repeat) give up because sorcerer can't kill an equally skilled opponent

Nailed it

ATomiX96

Its not like you are gonna kill a good player as a magsorc (on open world spec/gear) without grinding their ressources over a 4-5 minutes long battle where they will eventually make a mistake. You just have no constant pressure (spamming clench doesnt count), defiles (unless you run some wack ass 1hs magsorc builds) etc. to overwhelm their heals, in a meta where heals and HP pools are more potent than ever. Im not gonna lie, from my perspective it feels like more than half of cyrodiil is running 30k+ hp heavy armor builds with trollking or earthgore.
Best chance of you killing a good player is running a 3 man sorc squad and meteor-dumping them with coordination because thats how the game works now, almost no kill potential without ultimate abilities.

Sorc was always a potato farmer, it still continues to be a potato farmer. Zeni just makes it harder to farm potatoes with every patch.

gepe87

Add an Inferno Staff Heavy attack, using reach after that to land at same time, timed with curse, and send frag if reach make it proc.

Lord-Otto

Derra wrote: »

MalagenR wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think you’re right that Meteor should be before reach, since it has a longer travel time. Then if you can land the reach before they start blocking the meteor they will be stunned when the meteor lands.

Yeah exactly. On the flip side - I can't seem to get the Rune Cage timing correct. I'm starting to think Rune Cage should flow with a different ultimate, perhaps Overload.

LA - Curse - Overload On - LA - Frags - LA - Rune Cage - LA - Pulse - LA Wrath

yay or nay? is it enough damage?

You can´t get the timing right because the abilities no longer sync up. It´s not possible to land meteor unblocked with how runecage currently works.

Overload is dodgeable - it will naturally push people towards dodging it. Cage is dodgeable aswell. It also deals no dmg. They´re not a really desireable combination to use.

Reality is - the only people that will let you land a full burst rotation are those that you don´t need one to kill or tanks that you can´t kill with one.

The best chance to land Meteor is by using Invigorating Drain (the vampiric drain) directly after Meteor cast, I found out. It doesn't have the travel time of Reach. Just gotta block cancel it to follow up with the Frag.
Of course, the skill is rather bad otherwise, deals no damage if block cancelled, and range is lacking. It is also blockable, which really sucks (literally), so you're still relying on your opponent not reacting in time, as is the usual business with sorc. Therefore I can't recommend this skill. But if it was made unblockable...

Feanor

I have commented on another one of your Sorc videos already @Thogard, and it's the same here - it's not meant as a criticism of your build or your play style. But when you look at the footage (especially the BG one) it's glaringly obvious that you completely have to rely on other people's damage because your own doesn't suffice (outside having Soul Assault up in a favorable situation) even with legendary Spinner's on.

Half the time you have to stay out of range because you're OOM with 29k magicka and 12k stam. And you often survive just barely. It just doesn't look fun to me, although the Daedric Tomb idea is quite nice and offers good group support.

Irylia

Combos aren’t what they used to be.
https://youtu.be/fi2N3ilxuNE
You used to feint, utilize rolling frags, and more block cast bursts.
(Bsw, lich, 1x infernal, 1x vma destro (used to give 169 spell dmg), shadow mundus (12%) to crit and all spell glyphs) my open world build for months before the sustain nerfs.

Here’s another variation that I used many months back which removed the norm telegraph for something new which would catch the unaware off guard.
https://youtu.be/NPRReITuTpA

Otherwise now days it’s spam clench and build for overall damage pressure (dots, light weaves, high uptime on rotations to wear them down. The stun will happen eventually due to the incoming damage an opponent has to deal with.

IMO a bombardment of skills is more reliable than relying on a one shot especially with health pools so high and tankier sets.

MalagenR

dagonbeer wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

I'm still confused by the Rune Cage change. Like... who asked for this?

They overbuffed and then compromised with a overall nerf.

The dodge window is actually really small, but its almost like it was perfectly built so that you couldn't cast it and simultaneously land Meteor on an unblocked opponent.

gepe87 wrote: »

Add an Inferno Staff Heavy attack, using reach after that to land at same time, timed with curse, and send frag if reach make it proc.

Literally was thinking of how I could line up the heavy attack with the reach stun last night on my way home from work, it's the only thing I can think of to add that additional 2-3k of damage you'll need to push someone under 20%

MalagenR

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Its not like you are gonna kill a good player as a magsorc (on open world spec/gear) without grinding their ressources over a 4-5 minutes long battle where they will eventually make a mistake. You just have no constant pressure (spamming clench doesnt count), defiles (unless you run some wack ass 1hs magsorc builds) etc. to overwhelm their heals, in a meta where heals and HP pools are more potent than ever. Im not gonna lie, from my perspective it feels like more than half of cyrodiil is running 30k+ hp heavy armor builds with trollking or earthgore.
Best chance of you killing a good player is running a 3 man sorc squad and meteor-dumping them with coordination because thats how the game works now, almost no kill potential without ultimate abilities.

Sorc was always a potato farmer, it still continues to be a potato farmer. Zeni just makes it harder to farm potatoes with every patch.

This is every single 1v1 I get. 99% of the time we are dueling it out open world when either a yellow or a blue / red runs up and either I'm dead, I escape, or they die to a 2v1 or they escape.

MalagenR

Has anyone considered -

Cyrodil's Light + Wizards Riposte - for insane tank

Irylia wrote: »

Combos aren’t what they used to be.
https://youtu.be/fi2N3ilxuNE
You used to feint, utilize rolling frags, and more block cast bursts.
(Bsw, lich, 1x infernal, 1x vma destro (used to give 169 spell dmg), shadow mundus (12%) to crit and all spell glyphs) my open world build for months before the sustain nerfs.

Here’s another variation that I used many months back which removed the norm telegraph for something new which would catch the unaware off guard.
https://youtu.be/NPRReITuTpA

Otherwise now days it’s spam clench and build for overall damage pressure (dots, light weaves, high uptime on rotations to wear them down. The stun will happen eventually due to the incoming damage an opponent has to deal with.

IMO a bombardment of skills is more reliable than relying on a one shot especially with health pools so high and tankier sets.

Hey I like your video's but can't spend much time watching them at work. Strapped at night, gotta play. Can you type out what you're doing in the videos? If you can't I totally understand.

Thogard

Feanor wrote: »

I have commented on another one of your Sorc videos already @Thogard, and it's the same here - it's not meant as a criticism of your build or your play style. But when you look at the footage (especially the BG one) it's glaringly obvious that you completely have to rely on other people's damage because your own doesn't suffice (outside having Soul Assault up in a favorable situation) even with legendary Spinner's on.

Half the time you have to stay out of range because you're OOM with 29k magicka and 12k stam. And you often survive just barely. It just doesn't look fun to me, although the Daedric Tomb idea is quite nice and offers good group support.

Yeah you’re not wrong - that’s kind of the point. I would never duel or 1vX on that build - it’s meant to be played in a group, hence the transmutation set. Mines are expensive af too, I could slot cfrag instead and bump up the dmg (and the +spell dmg from jewelry) but that doesn’t fit as well with how BGs are currently being played.

The counter to the high MMR healbot premade groups is to steal their kills and slow them down. You could say that I’m on a kill stealing build lol.

Here’s me with mines dropped for cfrag. Much higher kill levels, but this is also a relatively low MMR match compared to the one in my build video. I designed the MagSorc build in the build video to work effectively as a solo queue in high MMR bg matches, and without the mines I can’t kite as effectively or set up kill stealing opportunities, even though I can blow up bad players more easily...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KhOIsJC-IQ0

NordSwordnBoard

In tight spaces, I've been using encase before the meteor lands. Its buggy though, and they can be immune/out of the cone. You do get to lock down more than one though which is good. I gave up on rune cage and don't miss it.

MalagenR

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

In tight spaces, I've been using encase before the meteor lands. Its buggy though, and they can be immune/out of the cone. You do get to lock down more than one though which is good. I gave up on rune cage and don't miss it.

The cost of encase is just ridiculous for its effect. It's not a good skill. It should be a root that either severely debuffs damage or actually does a decent amount of damage if they break the effect.

Feanor

@Thogard

Yeah I saw what your build is meant to do. Still, I’m asking myself if you couldn’t be much more effective on anything else than a Sorc. Yes, Streak is better in a slow world now, and Daedric Tomb adds an element of surprise, but your damage potential and group support would be way better on anything else I guess.