How would you feel about a RP/speedrun option for dungeons?

Kuwhar

Given how there is a "mega-server" which everyone shares (phasing aside) it's fair to say this leads to a mash of playstyles:

Those who want to take their time and listen to dialogue in dungeons, or simply learn mechanics for the first time, and those who want to finish ASAP.

What if they implemented an option where you could either queue for "RP/casual/noob" dungeons or conversely queue for "Speed Run" dungeons?

Yes I know "join a guild, git gud, yadda yadda" but for those of us who enjoy the team aspect of dungeons but rarely have time to play so guilds aren't an option, and don't like feeling rushed in dungeons, I think it'd be great to proactively place ourselves in a queue with like minded adventurers.

That also applies to the speedrunners, it would allow them to get into groups they know are looking for that quick clear and not have to worry about showing the ropes to people.

What do you think?

(i'm not saying one playstyle is better vs the other but i think it's fair to say they clash)

Salvas_Aren

I would welcome it.

Not to mention that RPs would not welcome it. Well, they would state that they would like it that way, but their queue would be empty and nobody would carry them.

And if you call a queue option noob, nobody will use it. All level 20s are expert players. Didn't you know that?

yodased

If you are PC-NA you can simply join my guild and you will have all the types of people you want.

I created it in 2014 because it was very difficult to find people that enjoyed running dungeons, we have over 200 members of all different skills, types and locations.

Do we have world clear first bragging rights? No of course not, but its a large group of people that generally like each other and run all content regularly.

I'm sure there are dozens of such guilds around, you don't have to be in a max level progression trials guild, just find a laid back place that welcomes people that like to run 4mans.

Merlight

Call it Story mode, then.

Aurayna

Sounds like a great idea !

I am fairly new to dungeons and would welcome being able to take my time, with like minded players

So far that has not been an option if I want to keep up with the others and complete the dungeon

Parrot1986

Good idea but for some roles getting a group using the finder is already pretty difficult, diluting the pot of healers, tanks could make that even harder.

For me if someone’s asking to do quest/story I’ll not just push ahead but appreciate some groups just batter on.

Sheezabeast

I think a fun option would be something like Wildcard, where you could get grouped with any roles. You could get all dps, 3 tanks, all heals...it would be fun and challenging And you could select Wildcard for your premade groups too so it wouldn't pop up saying that roles are incompatible.

Salvas_Aren

If you want to add further ideas, how about 160+, 160- and random level?

Saturnana

I'd love story-mode dungeons!

Juju_beans

Just like wow's mythic+ dungeons ? Just because something is in wow doesn't mean it's good and should be in every MMO.

If you want to speed run then just form a group specifically for that.
Why do you need the game to do that for you ?

Kuwhar

Juju_beans wrote: »

Just like wow's mythic+ dungeons ? Just because something is in wow doesn't mean it's good and should be in every MMO.

If you want to speed run then just form a group specifically for that.
Why do you need the game to do that for you ?

I've never played WoW so i have no clue about that.

I don't want to speedrun but that's the point, why not have the groupfinder let you dictate which type of run you are interested in so I can use the simple UI and not have to spam zone chat?

I fail to see the drawback here? It's literally just adding a couple of checkboxes.

Kanar

I would prefer a solo mode for dungeons, and the quests to be repeatable (no rewards after first run).

yodased

I am not opposed to the concept of the idea, but you always need to consider segregating players into categories or groups. Creating an us vs them environment leads to problems and biases.

Something that I think could work is smarter grouping tools, assign a value to each player's completion and achievements and attempt to align them with other players within the same range.

So if you have an 810 with 0 dungeon achievements you could get linked for 3 level 40s who have similar accomplishments in the dungeon.

If all 4 people or even 3 people are on the quest, you all have to wait for the mechanics of quest progression to finish the story.

If all 4 people are level 10 undaunted with most or all achievements, high probability you can burn through it for gear or pledge

Taleof2Cities

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Good idea but for some roles getting a group using the finder is already pretty difficult, diluting the pot of healers, tanks could make that even harder.

^This.^

On paper the idea is not terrible ... but the queue for DPS players is long enough already.

Fleshreaper

Personally, I think you would be better off forming your own group with something like this. However, and this may work in your case, I think group finder should have the option for quests, public delves, and world bosses. So, it you want to do group dungeon quest, just que for the quest. So many times, I would run world bosses, if I could find a group.

MLGProPlayer

Just let us replay dungeon quests. Right now, they disappear once you complete the dungeon once.

BretonMage

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Just let us replay dungeon quests. Right now, they disappear once you complete the dungeon once.

Yes. Tbh, I'd love the option to replay ALL the questlines (without the force greet dialogue of course).

Nestor

There are still some dungeons where I have not heard the story. I slow down if some pipes up needing the quest, but I tend not ask as being CO1196, people look at me askance. I mean , not that I see them giving me funny looks, I just know they are.

temjiu

No.

The Idea sounds very promising on paper, like many ideas. And like those many ideas, would play out horribly in real time.

Queue times are punishing enough right now, with everyone in the same queue. You split queues, you will kill queue times. Fake tanks and Fake healers will increase exponentially in individual queues since the DPS queue would most likely be longer then most players have in their limited playtime.

Separating a player-base has NEVER improved queue times. And I guarantee you that queue times are far more impacting on player enjoyment then an RP accidentally grouping up with a speed run freak. or new players frustrated because they couldn't finish reading the quest.

The solution is something that has always been there. JOIN A GUILD. Get involved in guild aspects. Become part of a community. It works, really. it solves all aspects of grouping issues people twist their minds around trying to "solve" with a UI element.

> you can get a group of like minded individuals to play with
> you can eliminate queue times (queue with full group)
> you can get a group that allows you to read the quest scripts and enjoy the story
> you can get a group that will RP with you. or speedrun with you. or run around in big circles like a chicken with it's head cut off with you. whatever.
> and on top of that all, you can build guild camaraderie and forge ties with people in real ways.

Kidgangster101

Why not have a system that alerts the group a new player is in the group upon them getting the quest for the first time. After the quest is complete it unlocks a "new player dungeon complete treasure chest" that contains a piece of random set item from the instance giving all players an incentive to stick around and take their time allowing people to complete the instance as a rushed boss could result in not completing the quest. Just an idea but reward the entire group for helping finish quests for others.

temjiu

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Why not have a system that alerts the group a new player is in the group upon them getting the quest for the first time. After the quest is complete it unlocks a "new player dungeon complete treasure chest" that contains a piece of random set item from the instance giving all players an incentive to stick around and take their time allowing people to complete the instance as a rushed boss could result in not completing the quest. Just an idea but reward the entire group for helping finish quests for others.

That's actually a good idea. nothing wrong with encouraging positive behavior. And it has nothing to do with splitting the player-base.

I've also seen suggestions for a voting system. rewarding people for good behavior through votes would also be encouraging positive behavior. like a reward if you get all positive votes, or a random motif if you reach certain thresholds of votes for a supportive role or best teamwork votes or stuff like that.

Kidgangster101

temjiu wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Why not have a system that alerts the group a new player is in the group upon them getting the quest for the first time. After the quest is complete it unlocks a "new player dungeon complete treasure chest" that contains a piece of random set item from the instance giving all players an incentive to stick around and take their time allowing people to complete the instance as a rushed boss could result in not completing the quest. Just an idea but reward the entire group for helping finish quests for others.

That's actually a good idea. nothing wrong with encouraging positive behavior. And it has nothing to do with splitting the player-base.

I've also seen suggestions for a voting system. rewarding people for good behavior through votes would also be encouraging positive behavior. like a reward if you get all positive votes, or a random motif if you reach certain thresholds of votes for a supportive role or best teamwork votes or stuff like that.

Yeah ff14 had a vote system that gave away special mounts and such. It was a great way to encourage people to play together for sure.

Kuwhar

temjiu wrote: »

No.

The Idea sounds very promising on paper, like many ideas. And like those many ideas, would play out horribly in real time.

Queue times are punishing enough right now, with everyone in the same queue. You split queues, you will kill queue times. Fake tanks and Fake healers will increase exponentially in individual queues since the DPS queue would most likely be longer then most players have in their limited playtime.

Separating a player-base has NEVER improved queue times. And I guarantee you that queue times are far more impacting on player enjoyment then an RP accidentally grouping up with a speed run freak. or new players frustrated because they couldn't finish reading the quest.

The solution is something that has always been there. JOIN A GUILD. Get involved in guild aspects. Become part of a community. It works, really. it solves all aspects of grouping issues people twist their minds around trying to "solve" with a UI element.

> you can get a group of like minded individuals to play with
> you can eliminate queue times (queue with full group)
> you can get a group that allows you to read the quest scripts and enjoy the story
> you can get a group that will RP with you. or speedrun with you. or run around in big circles like a chicken with it's head cut off with you. whatever.
> and on top of that all, you can build guild camaraderie and forge ties with people in real ways.

> you can get a group of like minded individuals to play with
> you can eliminate queue times (queue with full group)
> you can get a group that allows you to read the quest scripts and enjoy the story
> you can get a group that will RP with you. or speedrun with you. or run around in big circles like a chicken with it's head cut off with you. whatever.
> and on top of that all, you can build guild camaraderie and forge ties with people in real ways.


You make good points here but everyone one of those can apply to the groupfinder as it is now. Why do we need a groupfinder when people can just join a guild and not have to deal with queue times at all? All the tools are there, why do we need groupfinder in the first place?

Because not everyone has time for a guild or to forge friendships in-game. Believe it or not; there are people who play maybe once or twice a week for only an hour or 2 at a time. That's not conducive to forging friendships when you almost never see the same person twice. This idea offers a way for people to get paired with like-minded individuals who can't devote the time to joining a guild and being a active member of a community, however small.

Also, why would it definitively increase queue times as you state? Where do you garner this information from? It's purely conjecture to state that.

Queue times are only an issue for DPS roles in my experience, my tank and healer are incredibly fast to get grouped up. Wouldn't this take a number of DPS out of the pool for speedrunners? Possibly shortening queue times? Sure it will take some tanks and healers out sure, but maybe you can have the speedrun option allow for any role to enter as long as you get to 4 people? Since from what i see around the forums tanks and healers aren't needed for random dailies anyways.

Regardless you don't have data to back up your point that it would increase queue times, it may, it may not. But we don't know so I can't base a design idea around a "maybe".

Needing a tank and a healer to enter a dungeon increases queue times, are you against that aspect of the groupfinder? Because for the top geared vets, all it does is increase queue times.

My point there is queue times can't be the singular metric you base design around.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

There is already an RP option to doing dungeons it involves making a guild or zone group manually and explaining your goals.

Queuing up for "quick and easy" content access then complaining it's too quick isn't the way to go imo

The RP queue would just be dead and never pop

HalloweenWeed

Agreed with OP.

Salvas_Aren wrote: »

I would welcome it.

Not to mention that RPs would not welcome it. Well, they would state that they would like it that way, but their queue would be empty and nobody would carry them.

Depends on the timing. Would work at prime time for NA server.

Also might have the nice side effect of less stress on the GF if different handlers handle the two types.

Jameliel

It would feel good if they stepped up the loot. After playing some of the classics, ESO generally has such weak/boring loot and rewards. Chests are especially disappointing.

UPrime

Story and Speed run would be the 2 options I think. But the problem is that the Story queue will be totally abandoned. Defeating the purpose of the option.

nicotee

I think a lot speedrunners underestimate the number of players who would use something like story mode. I would use it. I know a lot of people who would use it. Even if story mode was less popular, I would rather wait longer in a queue than be rushed through quest dialogue and npc interactions. I like op's suggestion, and would love if it were implemented.

Minyassa

I like the idea a lot. It gripes me to think how many chests I've missed, and I still don't know what some dungeons I've run more than once actually look like.

MyKillv2.0

I cannot believe that this is not a thing, yet. Seriously?

WoW has a really nice dungeon system in which offers many different variations of difficulty. The easiest ones make FG1 look like a vet dungeon and the hardest are more difficult than anything Zo$ can dream of putting out due to their homogenization belief system.

I mean, seriously? Four years into the game and the most the game can do for variety is normal and vet, with the option of making the final have (in most instance) an interesting mechanic that you must deal with?

The game really needs a feature like this in my opinion. Players need variety, lots of variety. Storymode (easiest mode) should be lowest level easy. Under 50 should have two separate additional systems, one that requires traditional set up (with a real tank, real healer, and two DPS) and one other “fastlane” que in which puts the first four character together, regardless of role. Champion Points should have their own system, in which has a Traditional and Fastlane system, in addition to access to storymode. I think Champion Points should have access to more systems, maybe a system that is designed for “speed runs”, “no death runs”, “vHM”. And for the love of the three (for you lore nuts), create separate systems for DLC and non DLC dungeons for random. I am so tired of queing up for a random daily, getting a DLC and having three lvl 10s in my group. It is not fair to them, in addition to myself.

Dungeon runners need the chance to play like they want, at the difficulty they want, and give them a chance to achieve goals outside of the traditional… “find a guild” response.

nicotee

I wouldn't actually want storymode or RPmode or whatever to be easier for the record. Not wanting to rush isn't about dungeon difficulty at all from my perspective. It's about wanting to enjoy all aspects of the dungeons. So much work is put into the art, voicing, writing -- all those lovely details. Why would I want to ignore all of those to rush to the end?

Usually I duo normal dungeons with a like minded friend or (most recently) vet dungeons with a trio or full party of like minded guildmates. (Badguys dying too quickly/easily is also not satisfying to me.) But it's not always the easiest thing to coordinate. It would be amazing if I had an option to PUG with people who are into appreciating the story, dialogue and environment in addition to fighting and mechanics -- I'd end up doing a lot more dungeons, and having a lot more fun in them.

TLDR: Not wanting to rush does not mean wanting things to be easy, and it also has nothing to do with combat skill.