When guild mates go bad

mairwen85

I've been double barring inferno staves with my Dunmer magSorc for years, running some or other combination of Skoria/Ilambris/Grothdar, 5x Julianos, 5x BSW, mixing shock, flame and recovery enchants -- for me, this setup works, has always worked, seems likely to keep working as whatever combination I use, I'm pulling 30k+ comfortably, and I'm happy enough with that.

Recently, I had a guild mate (whom I picked up to run a dungeon from the guild chat) decide to take it upon himself to explain all the things wrong with my build. This is before we'd seen any action in the dungeon, just while we're queuing -- passing conversation because he wanted to know what I could do etc. We un-join the queue, because he has to invite his buddy (see, he might have some tips for me too. How nice!) -- and he proceeds to talk to his friend about how I could improve(!) The rest of the conversation I'm no longer participating, but the subject of.

Because I'm a dark elf and use fire staves, I should apparently be wearing Silks of the Sun instead of BSW because 400 spell damage on fire abilities, and mothers sorrow because Julianos is just a 'beginners set'...

let's forget that my rotation has but a single flame ability (blockade of fire) which steadily procs BSW to give me 500 spell damage across the rest of my abilities, and chance to apply burning effect which can proc my monster set (which can proc BSW, and so it goes around again).

Clearly someone has been reading alcastHq and misinterpreted the word beginner; whereas there it is used to mean 'not farmed from a trial', my guildie decided it meant trash -- I'm not opposed to mothers sorrow, but with Julianos and BSW, I'm already at 50% crit, thief mundus puts me over 60%, but I'm also getting a nice 299 spell damage from Juli -- would the extra 9% crit from MS really be worth sacrificing that spell damage for? I'm not sure, and my dummy parse doesn't look much better for it. I've tried Siroria, but I'm too mobile a player to get the full benefit (doesn't suit my play-style); I'm picking up spell strat over time (in no rush to get it tbh). In the meantime I'm happy to be able to craft, and re-craft a decent set of the exact weight/trait/type/piece(s) I need without farming for it, and get all the benefit I know to work with.

To be honest, it wound me up -- this guy had already decided that I was sub optimal because of his unwillingness to look outside of bullet-pointed lists of pre-digested information (overheard or read). I'm not saying his suggestions were invalid, but just not applicable to me, and to press on it as gospel because blah blah without a basis for comparison did nothing to endear him at all. I made my excuses, and dropped group -- subsequently waited on a random instead which was much nicer.

I didn't just want to post this to have a rant, but really more to say that this kind of snobbery really irks me. What is it that makes people believe they can just make assumptions because they've read something somewhere and regurgitate it with divine authority?

ATomiX96

Silks of the Sun on a magsorc *facepalm* that guy truly cant teach you anything.
If someone comes up to me and tells me what to do in an online game unless I ask them specifically for advice -> /ignore and move on.

WaltherCarraway

he was drunk problem solved now go queue with someone else instead of dat ass

SanguineMyBrother

I would've muballed him, told him to shut his face hole, and finish the dungeon. I'm one of two females in my guild and that usually works on those rascally men.

Sorry that you had a bad time.

theyancey

Wow, that was an excellent read! Kudos to you and your build!

Harrdarrzarr

Did you post parses to shut him up?

Ohtimbar

I can't stand mouthy snobs either. Props to you for doing your own thing and not letting the idiots ruin your fun.

JobooAGS

Silks of the sun on a mag sorc... 😂😂😂😂😂

Aalahk

There's nothing quite like unsolicited advice that suggests you're doing everything wrong.

Some people can't really help themselves. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt for a few reasons:

1. When people feel knowledgeable about a subject, they often want to share that knowledge;
2. When people are passionate about a subject, they often want to share what they know;
3. Sometimes people just want to help
4. Even if none of the above are true, expecting the worst from people doesn't help me feel any better about life

It sounds like he's just emotionally immature - I wouldn't take it too personally; it probably had much less to do with you and much more to do with him.

I find the best response to unsolicited advice is to thank them for it but tell them that I'm not looking for any guidance at this time.

The most common place I'll give advice is in a dungeon if I see someone doesn't appear to be following mechanics for example, but I try to prefix with, "Sorry if you already know this but there are some mechanics I can explain here if you need it."

kathandira

mairwen85 wrote: »

snip

Did you stand up for yourself? Telling them that you don't need their advice, that you know quite well what you are doing?

From the way it sounds in your telling of the situation, you just sat there and let them dominate the conversation.

Hoolielulu

Silks of the Sun? Never heard of it.

Your armor combo sounds nice and I'm glad you're not apologizing for it.

Shezzarrine

[edited to remove unnecessary comment]

That being said, this guy is a moron. Even on a magDK BSW is similar to silks, on a magsorc? It's nothing close to the best. I find it laughable when people in this try to critique builds when they clearly know nothing.

People should ask if it's alright to give advice before going after builds. If you ask and they say no, and their performance is not satisfactory (i.e. snipe spammers) leave the group and dont carry them. As for the OPs fps, 30k is fine for pretty much everything in the game(non-HM). It's not ideal but it's more than enough for any dungeon.

mairwen85

kathandira wrote: »

Did you stand up for yourself? Telling them that you don't need their advice, that you know quite well what you are doing?

From the way it sounds in your telling of the situation, you just sat there and let them dominate the conversation.

I didn't feel the need to; not when I can just walk away. Thing is, if people are going to spout drivel and trumpet smoke up each other's back passage -- I'm OK with that -- just let me step away from it first... don't want hep-c.

In all seriousness though, you are right. Best action is to just tell someone politely that you have no need of their input. I'm a bit wordier in writing than verbally because I have a speech impediment that causes me to clutter words and mispronounce things, so I tend to talk slower if I want people to get me -- so I find it hard to interrupt people in full flow.

Kova

All speculation is compressed by doing the math

kathandira

mairwen85 wrote: »

kathandira wrote: »

Did you stand up for yourself? Telling them that you don't need their advice, that you know quite well what you are doing?

From the way it sounds in your telling of the situation, you just sat there and let them dominate the conversation.

I didn't feel the need to; not when I can just walk away. Thing is, if people are going to spout drivel and trumpet smoke up each other's back passage -- I'm OK with that -- just let me step away from it first... don't want hep-c.

In all seriousness though, you are right. Best action is to just tell someone politely that you have no need of their input. I'm a bit wordier in writing than verbally because I have a speech impediment that causes me to clutter words and mispronounce things, so I tend to talk slower if I want people to get me -- so I find it hard to interrupt people in full flow.

Fair enough. If it isn't worth your time, then that is that.

Shameless Plug: If you are on PS4, and are looking for a guild of people who treat everyone as equals, hit me up @fizzlepop-531. Our guild doesn't play those games. We'll help if someone is asking, but that is about as far as that will go.

susmitds

While I don't endorse what he did in any way, as far as DPS is concerned Mother's Sorrow>Julianos by a good margin.

Odovacar

Don't waste your time with people who want to belittle you over YOUR setup! This is YOUR character and your setup and it works best for you! I've tried so many combinations over the years in the attempt to try and see if I can squeeze a little more DPS out and somehow I revert back to what I know works best, most of the time. Lastly, for the record I've played with more ladies that either smoked me in PvP or showed me the ropes in trials and various HM content than my fellow bros. Don't sweat the small stuff and keep grinding!

Sparr0w

Silks. Lol. Potato.

Sparr0w

susmitds wrote: »

While I don't endorse what he did in any way, as far as DPS is concerned Mother's Sorrow>Julianos by a good margin.

On a magsorc? Like 500 dps literally...

The Uninvited

Nothing to do with you being a woman I think, but I could be wrong.

Just the other day I had a guild member going mad because I and the other dps were wearing PVP gear while doing veteran White Gold Tower. Kept going on and on about it (he was tanking and me and the other dps were wrecking the bosses mind you) and that we wouldn't make it to the end in PVP gear.

Explained that we had cleared this dungeon many times before, even in the beginning before the nerfs to it (and with worse gear back then), but he wouldn't stop. Eventually we just said F U and dropped out, gladly taking the timer penalty.

Look, I gladly take advice IF needed but if I clearly show that I can pull my weight, there is no need.

In your case, he should have waited until you took down the first boss and only then IF you were doing terrible dps, should he consider giving advice.

Edit: The fact that he mentioned Silks of the Sun for a Sorc AND calling Julianos a beginner set, clearly shows that he has little knowledge of how some things work in the game.

FakeFox

Well, yeah. That guy has no idea. But I don't understand why you have to make it about gender.

menathradiel

mairwen85 wrote: »

edited to remove deleted content

Actually, it probably would have played out exactly the same. Believe it or not, there are some people who feel the need to "educate" others on the "correct" way to play a game, that's just their nature. It is you who chose to think that they acted that way because you are a woman when the chances are that they're probably that way with everyone who they feel isn't "doing things right".

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Sparr0w

menathradiel wrote: »

mairwen85 wrote: »

I doubt this would have played out the same if I were male. Not that that is the primary purpose of this thread. I'll change it because it offends you so, ironically.

Actually, it probably would have played out exactly the same. Believe it or not, there are some people who feel the need to "educate" others on the "correct" way to play a game, that's just their nature. It is you who chose to think that they acted that way because you are a woman when the chances are that they're probably that way with everyone who they feel isn't "doing things right".

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Had someone tell me to farm Calurions on a magblade once because the burst for ranged dps was better than any spell damage set... yeah some people just have no idea.

mairwen85

FakeFox wrote: »

Well, yeah. That guy has no idea. But I don't understand why you have to make it about gender.

I changed that. Gender was merely a side observation. Story remains the same.

Hopefully I didn't derail my own thread in the opening post, and it can get back on track to the crux of the matter.

VagabondLife

menathradiel wrote: »

Actually, it probably would have played out exactly the same. Believe it or not, there are some people who feel the need to "educate" others on the "correct" way to play a game, that's just their nature. It is you who chose to think that they acted that way because you are a woman when the chances are that they're probably that way with everyone who they feel isn't "doing things right".

There are two kinds of people.

The first kind are the people who just HAVE to insist that gendered treatment of players in ESO simply doesn't exist, and any perception of such on a woman's part must be all in her own head.

The second kind are the women who actually play ESO...

FakeFox

mairwen85 wrote: »

FakeFox wrote: »

Well, yeah. That guy has no idea. But I don't understand why you have to make it about gender.

I changed that. Gender was merely a side observation. Story remains the same.

Hopefully I didn't derail my own thread in the opening post, and it can get back on track to the crux of the matter.

You pobably derailed it, yes.

Well I guess the problem is that people overestimate their own performance. I mean the idea of trying to help other players improve is generally good. There are players out there competent enough to do so, many other players just need to realize they aren't one of them.
The (mostly unintentional) spread of misinformation is a big issue in this game in my opinion and I tend to get fed up about it my self. However I don't understand why it should affect me personally if someone tries it on me and I actually know better. Just either educate the person back or tell him to shut up and move on. Whats the issue?

ZOS_RikardD

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Veinblood1965

Agreed some people try to give advice but come across as jerks. Ignore them.

I'm running almost the exact same set up except running necropotence instead of BsW as I run with a pet. I've been gathering the BsW pieces and also Spell Strategist to try different builds but haven't gotten all five pieces of either yet but am fairly close. Can you share your rotation? I know this isn't what the thread is about but if you can that would be great.

royo

I love when people apply leaderboard raid tactics to Banished Cells 2.

GusTheWizard

You could’ve just said politely that you like your build and you’re not changing it, if he leaves that’s his problem but he could’ve just said okay that’s fine, you never know what could happen when you’re polite.

I have given advice to many people men and women and it’s usually well received by guys but 70% of the women think I’m “mansplaining” to them all the things wrong with their build (the only reason I have to give them advice is because I’m the raid leader in my guild) if you don’t want advice just tell him, don’t just assume he’s “mansplaining” to you because you’re a girl he could just be trying to help you because you’re a guild mate

I’m really done with these posts with women womensplaining all the things that guys do to them that are wrong, get over yourself.

sevomd69

I've never asked anyone in a PUG what they are wearing...don't really want to know...and don't care to be honest...

Whenever I'm asked what my gear is...I just post in chat any random green and blue gear. that happen to be on my toon...also any intricate I have...