PVP is a trashfire. Put it out or fix it.

ForestGuard
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Nothing about ESO's PVP is fun, rewarding, engaging or, most importantly balanced...

First of all, Battlegrounds-... I was excited when I heard they were coming. I was tired of the senseless zerging in Cyrodiil and the constant threat of being overwhelmed by larger numbers and people in min-maxed gear / builds who could wreck you blindfolded.

Turns out, none of that disappeared in BGs.

Why on earth, Zenimax, why on earth did you think you had to continue the 3 Teams thing from the Faction War into Battlegrounds??? It's not NECESSARY, because hey, this isn't Cyrodiil, we don't need a Team for the Daggerfall, Ebonheart and Aldmeri Factions, this is separate, and it should feel completely different.

Three Team Battlegrounds are the stupidest things I've heard of after the Warden Class having an entire skill line based on Morrowind's fauna (Dragon Knights are kinda dumb too but I'm gonna get off that... (DRAGON WINGS?!?! FIRE BREATH?!?! SUMMONING CLIFFRACERS AND SHALKS AND BETTY NETCHES??!?! CAN'T WE JUST HAVE A BASIC WARRIOR, MAGE, ROGUE, CLERIC KIND OF VIBE? LITTLE LESS FLASH AND GLAMOUR MORE GRITTY REALISTIC DARK FANTASY WE KNOW AND LOVE FROM THE ELDER SCROLLS?? AT LEAST TONE IT DOWN, MAKE ANIMATIONS LESS EYEBURNING!).

OKAY SORRY FOR THE DISTRACTION PAY ATTENTION:

3 Teams in one Battleground is not fun.

You know why it is not fun?
--Because there are more people against you than on your side.
--Because it isn't Team 1 or Team 2 wins, it's Team 1 or Team 2 or Team 3... essentially giving you a higher chance of losing.
--Because it's a ZERG. Just like Cyrodiil, it's absolute chaos and nonsense.

Battlegrounds should be 6v6, not 4v4v4.
Battlegrounds should have competitive gear you can easily find, access and buy with a Battleground specific currency.
Battlegrounds should be completely separate from the Alliance War. Because not everyone who likes Battleground style PVP likes the Alliance War. You want to attract people to a form of endgame and new/different play styles? Make sure they exist and can function independently. I swear the direction of this game has just been nauseating to watch at times. Content that gets slapped onto the rotting carcass of other content, failing to improve the old or properly integrate the new. Things like the Justice system and Legerdemain getting put in as CONSUMABLE story content rather than REPEATABLE / INTERACTIVE world systems... Adding in hundreds of useless baubles to be stolen and sold in a mindnumbingly boring "thief" playstyle.

YES I know this post has been impossible to follow but I'm MAD. I wanted this game more than anything when I was 14, playing Morrowind alone, wishing I could play with friends who'd help me get through the harder and scarier regions, but all these years later, so much of what ESO is and has become is just plain wrong. I do still love a lot about it, mostly story, exploring Tamriel's cultures, considerably better graphics and combat than other MMOs I've played... but it can't settle, it needs a stronger direction and a stronger sense of itself, I don't want to see it end up like Wildstar and so many other games.
  • geonsocal
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    entertaining rant...

    no doubt this game can get super frustrating...I guess that means we care...
    PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place
  • kaithuzar
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    entertaining rant...

    no doubt this game can get super frustrating...I guess that means we care...

    When is it not frustrating? I can't really think of a time in the past few years that this hasn't been the case.
    Member of:
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  • NuarBlack
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    Yeah the three teams in BGs made no sense at all. It pretty much ruined it and cyro was fun all of the first 15 minutes you played it and that was only if you played it closer to launch when it wasn't a giant lag fest like it is now.
  • CatchMeTrolling
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    I wouldn’t compare bgs to open world, they’re much better than the chaotic state cyrodiil is in. Nothing is zergy about it, you can have zerg tactics but its not zergy. There’s equal teams , so it’s not 4v8 unless someone is teaming up or one team is doing whatever they want. I like small scale so even then I don’t mind 4v8 it’s not a big number difference since the enemy teams still hurt each other.

    Can add 2 team matches but I honestly prefer 3 teams because it adds randomness and uncertainty to a match. The victor would be obvious in a 2 team system. Plus, I’m not confident in this games mmr system. There’s already poor grouping. Would end up in more lopsided matches. Not only that this would make premades even more cancer.
  • Checkmath
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    Nice rant and I do not agree with you.

    In my opinion, it is a good idea battlegrounds to be 4v4v4. Maybe a 4v4 or 6v6 mode could be added, but saying that you play a 4v8 and your chances to lose is higher, is totally wrong. I have not seen two teams grouping up to go fully against one ever (not even when one group was totally dominating). So its three times of a small number, which looks quite fair to me. This is by far better than a 4v4 match up, since those are very fast decided in most cases and very stale from the point you realize its decided. The same case of a dominating group in a 4v4v4 scenario still gives the incentive of not getting last. Coming in second is not necessarily losing, also the daily boxes granted for the first and second place encourage this statement. You still can achieve something, even though your enemies are premade. Therefore the chance of losing actually is smaller in a 4v4v4. Also it is not a zerg like in Cyrodiil. This can only be called team play, when one group walks and works together.

    Also about the classes: I do not like the idea of having a warrior, a mage, a healer/monk and a marksman as a class. This is too limiting for ESO. Better to have 5 classes themed around some certain magicka or element than pigeonholing every class in a specific spec/role. It fits the Elder Scrolls theme of choose what ever you want. In every elder scrolls before you could be a heavy armored sword singer wielding magic. You could use a bow and summon daedras. Your roles of warriors and mages would make classes very limited only being able to wield a few specific weapon types. But now we have 5 classes, all able to use any weapon effectively. I can not imagine a warrior using a staff tough.
  • Xsorus
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    Here is what would happen in a 4v4 BG

    you'd get curb stomped then spawn camped the whole game

  • ChunkyCat
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    I would have to respectfully disagree.

    Threesomes are so much fun. They add just the right amount of spice to keep things interesting, in an otherwise stale life.

    But... threesomes aren’t for everyone. Some people, usually the guys, just get too uncomfortable in that situation. They feel awkward and inadequate... which leads to performance issues.

    As a guy myself, I can understand how those kind of... performance issues.... would be very, very frustrating.

    It happens to everyone. It’s ok man.

    You can do it.

  • Datthaw
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    I like how no one is touching on cyrodiil. Talk about a dumpster fire.
  • Fur_like_snow
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    While designing BGs they just went with what has worked in the past and that’s AvAvA. The dream is for a structured ladder arena mode with all the appropriate rewards and titles. But for now I think BGs work well as a micro version of Cyrodiil with similar but different win conditions.
  • casparian
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    The dream is for a structured ladder arena mode with all the appropriate rewards and titles.
    Our dream maybe. ZOS’ dream is for PVP to be a casual, drop-in-and-drop-out activity that players can do in between their cosmetic hunts and daily world boss runs. More of a side quest for the achievement than a main gaming activity. That model fits their overwhelming focus on casuals and allows them to avoid having to focus so much on balance and performance, two things they’ve never been able to get right in PVP and probably never will.
    7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.
  • SkysOutThizeOut
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    This new patch has drastically improved gameplay. We have achieved a semblance of balance for the moment with nothing that is too significantly overpowered. 1vX and small scale has been boosted a bit, which means cheese and skill-less set ups have been tuned down. If you dislike cyro, it’s because you have a low open world IQ (like basketball IQ). Bgs are still a struggle at times, but they’ve improved as well. If you think it has gotten worse then you might be the person that was benefitting from cheese.
    Edited by SkysOutThizeOut on November 29, 2018 1:12PM
  • ZarkingFrued
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    You lost me on your nonsensical rant rather early into it. Please stay on topic and make sense. Not every fantasy game in the universe has to feature the same 4 boring classes, with the same skill sets.
  • haakira
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    whoops wrong topic
    Edited by haakira on November 29, 2018 1:21PM
  • Reverb
    Reverb
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    ESO PvP has problems, many of them. But from the details of your rant it's pretty clear that this is not the game for you.
    Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche
  • MaxJrFTW
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    Decided to stop pvping in eso a couple of days ago. Too frustrating to keep investing my time into it.
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • yodased
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    I have not been able to and still can't wrap my head around this type of thinking. Your opinion of the game and what you want it to be is irrelevant to anyone but yourself.

    Stop with the "Make this game what I want it to be", accept that its not the thing you want and go find what it is you want.

    Just because you want a particular function or feature or whatever it is that word vomit was, that means nothing.

    This is not the experience you want, fair enough, but you are selfishly proclaiming that you know the answers to perceived problems, when there are huge amounts of people that don't even agree that it is in fact a problem.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Emmagoldman
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    Warden SUCKS, DK SUCKS, Cyrodil SUCKS, BG SUCKS. If you are not enjoying the game, it may be time to reevaluate how you use your time. If a game seems like a chore, there's little satisfaction, and yet you still log in, then there is potentially something unhealthy. This is advice for any gamer and not meant to be an attack.

    For bgs, I like 3x3x3 and want 4x4x4 as well. I would also like known tiers in the mmr system so you can see what "level" you are playing.
    three teams are nice in that It allows for situational awareness so you need to think of positioning and gameplay. Builds are one part of playing well, teamwork and positioning are the other.

    zerging.....cmon now. Maybe a stretch wouldnt you say?

    Also, you dont need to min/max to do well. I have wrong traits on gear, only have unduanted on 2 toons and dont follow metas and still do well

    instead of everything sucking, maybe you need help in terms of gameplay. can you post a vid clip and we can give you feedback?


  • Brutusmax1mus
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    I like it all but lag, which is out of control in cyro
  • Sylosi
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    Checkmath wrote: »
    I have not seen two teams grouping up to go fully against one ever (not even when one group was totally dominating)...

    Coming in second is not necessarily losing, also the daily boxes granted for the first and second place encourage this statement.

    Which is a fine example of why it is such a failed design, what actually happens is instead of the two weaker teams focusing the stronger team (which is about the only potentially redeeming aspect of the laughable 3 way design) the second place team focuses the last place to ensure they get second.



    Edited by Sylosi on November 29, 2018 3:07PM
  • Checkmath
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    Sylosi wrote: »
    Checkmath wrote: »
    I have not seen two teams grouping up to go fully against one ever (not even when one group was totally dominating)...

    Coming in second is not necessarily losing, also the daily boxes granted for the first and second place encourage this statement.

    Which is a fine example of why it is such a failed design, what actually happens is instead of the two weaker teams focusing the stronger team (which is about the only potentially redeeming aspect of the laughable 3 way design) the second place team focuses the last place to ensure they get second.



    Ok I formulated that not correctly. It is a normal behavior to go against the winning team, but there is no chance of not having to fight each others among the second and third placed team. If I am not in the winning team, then I motivate my group to go against the leading team if possible. And I think is normally the case in every battleground map. But not to the point of totally ignoring the other losing team.

    And I only go for the second place, if there is no way to overcome the leading time (like when two pug teams are up against a premade leading with 400 to 105 and 75 points). Probably most people think like this: Go for the first place as long as its realistic. No team, which has a chance of winning a battleground round goes for the safe second place.
  • NuarBlack
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    The 3 teams balancing each other out is great in theory but never works in practice. Especially considering the modes in BGs. Death Match just ends up a giant scrum with everyone just taking what kills they can get, not to mention the kill stealing issue.

    Domination and Crazy King just encourage zerg tactics because there are two teams to worry about instead of like AB in WoW where you have to think about how you will position your team, then rotating properly to attack and defend. In ESO it's just musical flags 90% of the time because dividing your team is suicide.

    CTF is about the only thing the 3 teams works for or that I've seen where the 3rd team helps check consistently.

    Last the 3 teams encourages the tank meta we have and limits build diversity. You pretty much want a build that can handle those 4v8 fights. I know none of the forum warriors care cause they all think they are l33t 1vXers and that's all that should matter. But the team with the most HA beed builds and a templar will win every time and that gets old.
  • NupidStoob
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    Nothing about ESO's PVP is fun, rewarding, engaging or, most importantly balanced...
    kaithuzar wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    entertaining rant...

    no doubt this game can get super frustrating...I guess that means we care...

    When is it not frustrating? I can't really think of a time in the past few years that this hasn't been the case.

    I don't get comments like this. If you hate it that much simply play something else? Nobody forces you to do things you dislike. There is a number of activities you can do in ESO and if you feel similar about all of them ESO simply isn't a game for you. Why does it matter then? Just move on to something you actually enjoy playing.
  • ccmedaddy
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    ... the stupidest things I've heard of after the Warden Class having an entire skill line based on Morrowind's fauna.
    😂😂😂
  • Datthaw
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    Lol still people not talking about the dumpster fire on its last life that is CYRO. Absolute mess with lag, no incentives, faction hopping killing the competition between alliances.

    I actually have to disagree with @casparian atleast a little. Zos had advertised before eso release about the alliance war. It was a HUGE part thier marketing for the game. They have just let it wilt and die through bad decisions. Only recently have they started making a heavy swing towards the more casual.

    All IMO ofcourse.
  • valeriiya
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    They're currently distracting everyone with the Undaunted event meltdown right now
  • Putinof
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    I agree 3-way bg's are nothing interesting. at least not with the design we have. ive never had- in a entire eso pvp history- experience even remotely comparable to excitement from WoW (wich is almost 15 years old, btw), or many other games that adopted the same idea.
    Edited by Putinof on December 1, 2018 11:06PM
  • jcm2606
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    This new patch has drastically improved gameplay. We have achieved a semblance of balance for the moment with nothing that is too significantly overpowered. 1vX and small scale has been boosted a bit, which means cheese and skill-less set ups have been tuned down. If you dislike cyro, it’s because you have a low open world IQ (like basketball IQ). Bgs are still a struggle at times, but they’ve improved as well. If you think it has gotten worse then you might be the person that was benefitting from cheese.

    I'm sorry, what?
    We have achieved a semblance of balance for the moment with nothing that is too significantly overpowered.

    Nightblade has a fully single-target kit, with an in-class source of Major Evasion, which now grants 25% AOE reduction. In essence, Nightblade takes less damage from Warden, Templar & (to a lesser extent) DK, due to the in-class Major Evasion, without being affected itself. Buffed considerably.

    Movement speed and snare immunity saw huge nerfs, so any classes and playstyles that are built off of roots and snares -- Warden, Templar, DK, frost mages -- are now much stronger. This is most seen whenever you're zerged down in an Xv1, where you have five or so ice walls stacked on top of each other from five different players, all trying to do the same thing, which is slow you down to an absolute crawl. 1vX received a monumental nerf, Xv1 received a monumental buff, and the game is incredibly unfun for everybody.

    There were other nerfs, but these two alone prove your point to be incorrect. This patch has tossed not only balance, but generally fun gameplay also, completely out the window, and is one of the main reasons why I've decided to take a break. Among the typical issues with BGs, they're the polar *** opposite of fun. The way they are now, they suck the joy out of PVP for me. So, no. We haven't achieved a semblance of balance. We've achieved a semblance of boring, monotonous, bleak, and overall depressing gameplay.
    1vX and small scale has been boosted a bit, which means cheese and skill-less set ups have been tuned down.

    No. See above. Movement speed and snare immunity were completely gutted, which has only strengthened roots and snares. Roots and snares, of which are mostly used by the Xv1 crowd, directly hurting 1vX and small scale.
    If you dislike cyro, it’s because you have a low open world IQ (like basketball IQ).

    Or maybe because we don't like being 20v1'd? We don't like Zenimax constantly handing this already vastly overperforming crowd even more tools?
    Bgs are still a struggle at times, but they’ve improved as well.

    No they haven't. They've messed with match making, yet again, and made the experience of not only myself, but several people I play with even worse, yet again. They've shown that they can't do ranked match making, so just bloody remove it.
  • Sylosi
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    If you dislike cyro, it’s because you have a low open world IQ (like basketball IQ).

    If you like Cyro you basically enjoy trash tier PvP that is made for PvE players, which means you have a low PvP IQ.

  • The Uninvited
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    I like it all but lag, which is out of control in cyro

    This! The only thing that sometimes makes me "rage quit" is the freezes followed by disconnecting. Especially after defending a keep for half an hour and then missing the defense tick because you get kicked out of the game.
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Pactriotic | IKnowWhatUDidLastWinter's | The Uninvited |

    Ride the paranoia | All life is pain | Only the grave is real
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