Battlegrounds should be CP160 Req at level 50

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Topic.

Battlegrounds should 100% be CP 160 minimum to queue once you reach level 50, it's entirely unfair to your team who gets you on their team and you don't even have your fully CP 160 gear. I entirely lost a match because of a CP23 ally who went 0 kills 11 deaths on my team, he was just getting melted and I couldn't heal through it.

VaranisArano

Then we'd need a 3rd BGs queue for CP 1 through 159, and that would be really low population. Or do we just say "oops, sorry you outleveled the below level 50 ones, you can't play until you hit CP 160"?

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Just disallow queueing until 160 CP. Don't certain dungeons have CP requirements? Why shouldn't battlegrounds?

ChunkyCat

At least you guys came in third.

VaranisArano

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

Just disallow queueing until 160 CP. Don't certain dungeons have CP requirements? Why shouldn't battlegrounds?

Because Battlegrounds, unlike certain dungeons, has a Below 50 queue that's pretty decent. I've enjoyed doing lower level battlegrounds on leveling characters and never really had a problem as long as my gear was relatively close to level.

And since there's a decent below level 50 BGs, it just seems odd to leave a gap of CP 1 to CP 159 where people aren't allowed to queue for Battlegrounds. Giving them their own queue doesnt really work that well either, since the population wouldnt be that big.

CatchMeTrolling

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

wheem_ESO

I think it'd probably be OK if the lower level BG bracket was expanded to be from level 10 to CP-159. In a no-CP environment, there wouldn't be too much difference between a level 49 player and a CP-159 one, especially if the level 49 guy actually has some experience (and therefore CP) on his primary character(s).

That said, a lot of legitimately new people aren't going to see any major improvements once they hit CP-160. Getting the proper, max level gear sets can be a bit of a chore for someone who solo quested most of the way, especially if they're not in a guild that's helping out with advice, crafting materials, running dungeons for the proper monster sets, etc...

I had a BG late last night where two people on my team were between CP-160 and CP-180, and they were dying too fast to heal, not putting out much damage, and not positioning themselves very well. It's somewhat frustrating, especially when you get a fairly high MMR and wait 15+ minutes between games at that hour, but at least I wasn't also against premades.

NupidStoob

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

CatchMeTrolling

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

Thogard

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

You’re missing what he’s saying.

If a player on your team doesn’t realize that the other two teams are sandwiching you, then you’ll lose the match.

From what I’ve seen of console streams this isn’t a big deal on console, but on PC the high MMR matches are decided by which team is the best at not getting stuck in between the other two teams. One bad player ruins it.

CatchMeTrolling

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

You’re missing what he’s saying.

If a player on your team doesn’t realize that the other two teams are sandwiching you, then you’ll lose the match.

From what I’ve seen of console streams this isn’t a big deal on console, but on PC the high MMR matches are decided by which team is the best at not getting stuck in between the other two teams. One bad player ruins it.

It’s a poor example, sandwiching happens on any platform. He’s specifically blaming the one person with low cp but if you look at all of the scores it looked as if only one player stood out while the rest played poorly. What about them? What’s their excuse?

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

You’re missing what he’s saying.

If a player on your team doesn’t realize that the other two teams are sandwiching you, then you’ll lose the match.

From what I’ve seen of console streams this isn’t a big deal on console, but on PC the high MMR matches are decided by which team is the best at not getting stuck in between the other two teams. One bad player ruins it.

It’s a poor example, sandwiching happens on any platform. He’s specifically blaming the one person with low cp but if you look at all of the scores it looked as if only one player stood out while the rest played poorly. What about them? What’s their excuse?

Having one bad teammate drastically pulls your entire team down, same can be said for having one really good teammate which carries. Faqs aren't excuses.

CatchMeTrolling

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

You’re missing what he’s saying.

If a player on your team doesn’t realize that the other two teams are sandwiching you, then you’ll lose the match.

From what I’ve seen of console streams this isn’t a big deal on console, but on PC the high MMR matches are decided by which team is the best at not getting stuck in between the other two teams. One bad player ruins it.

It’s a poor example, sandwiching happens on any platform. He’s specifically blaming the one person with low cp but if you look at all of the scores it looked as if only one player stood out while the rest played poorly. What about them? What’s their excuse?

Having one bad teammate drastically pulls your entire team down, same can be said for having one really good teammate which carries. Faqs aren't excuses.

Okay, I’ll entertain this.

Another person died 9 times, major difference is they had a few kills. Unless we’re going to blame the low cp guy for them dying too.

Even so there’s another guy who’s 0-7 for the second place team with the same score as your guy. How many cp did they have ?

But I think the biggest stand out about this is the person that’s first for the winning team. 10-9. I could be wrong but this doesn’t look like a highly competitive match even with the close scores. It looks like one of those matches where everyone is all over the place.

Judging by the amount of assists some players had I’d wager a lot of kills ended up stolen. Then also include two of your teammates played poorly. Sure one player can affect the team positively or negatively but for your case it seems like two people had a bad game.

Kadoin

Ah, that's why I play a healer in BGs. Eventually, all 8 stop caring about winning just to get me to have one death. Having them chase me around or get angry and jump me usually gets me a victory. They even ignore the "weak" teammates...

You gotta know how to play your opponents' minds!

NupidStoob

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

NupidStoob wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Get what you’re saying but one player rarely is the reason a team loses. Plus that’s why you off heal your teammates, especially low cp ones.

To add it seems like everyone was dying in this game.

That's literally how higher MMR BGs get decided... The one guy that has sub 20K HP, no group healing and no clue how to avoid being the sandwich filling is the one that usually decides the match. Obviously you don't really have sub 160 people on higher mmr unless you queue at really odd times, but still.

And if you’re a high mmr player you should already know who the weak link is and act accordingly. The problem is a lot of players have no sense of teamwork so they just let that player die over and over. At times that could be an advantage because they’re so focused on trying to get cheap kills that they die to other people. I have won games with someone having similar KDs.

You’re missing what he’s saying.

If a player on your team doesn’t realize that the other two teams are sandwiching you, then you’ll lose the match.

From what I’ve seen of console streams this isn’t a big deal on console, but on PC the high MMR matches are decided by which team is the best at not getting stuck in between the other two teams. One bad player ruins it.

It’s a poor example, sandwiching happens on any platform. He’s specifically blaming the one person with low cp but if you look at all of the scores it looked as if only one player stood out while the rest played poorly. What about them? What’s their excuse?

Poor stats are just a side effect of playing 3v4v4. You can be as good as you want if a coordinated team of 4 people is on you when you are alone or outnumbered you will die in most cases. I am not saying that OP is right and that by default it's always the weakest person that loses the game, but they heavily drag a team down. Also if you have captain snipe on your team do you really want 3 people to follow him around to make sure he doesn't die when he has no clue how to defend himself in an actual fight and your team still has to fight at least 3v4? You know a BG is gonna be tough when you have to ask your teammates to please stay together, because you get that one oddball that thinks it's heroic to shieldcharge into a full team especially when you see the other team approaching on the flank. Either you follow him and all of you enjoy getting sandwiched or you abandon him and have to make up for only 1 death.

The first team that engages in a triangle position is usually the one that is going to be at a disadvantage unless they are properly coordinated to actually outmaneuver the other two teams. One person can easily make or break this.

wheem_ESO

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Even so there’s another guy who’s 0-7 for the second place team with the same score as your guy. How many cp did they have ?

I'd guess that the person with 0-7-1 is a healer (though of course it's possible that they're not, and that their damage output really was that low anyway).

'Course, plenty of teams can win with one (or more) low level or bad players, just depends on the opposition. In a game that otherwise might be somewhat close, one bad player can absolutely make the difference. If they're "feeding" the other team(s), it may actually be worse than just having a group of 3 that never fills up.

Stormshadowonesixty

Let me guess
You're the guy with 1 kill?....
Solid effort my man

disintegr8

Wouldn't help people like me. I have over 1100 CP with maxed out gear and still suck in battlegrounds/PVP.

As in dungeons and trials, if you are worried about who you get grouped with when pugging, DON'T PUG!!!

Curtdogg47

You do realize that anyone that plays the game long enough will eventually be CP160.

A players CP level isn’t a sign of any great skill in the game!
All my CP975 says, is that have spent more time playing ESO and less time outside! 😎

Stebarnz

Top player on your team was sorc with execute running and got the kills, your man although low cp and high deaths still had 9 assists, sure he was squishy but got involved, the player who finished last on fire drakes also had a poor game but less assists, granted he died less but didn't seem as involved.
Going on the screen shot it was a poor bg overall. but so long as everyone learned something and had fun that's all that matters.

Protoavis73

Well better luck next time.
Some shouldn't take it so seriously imo, there are good players and bad players (and in between).
I'm now at CP310 but haven't done much BG's and would probably get killed more then I kill, it's all learning and having fun.

Cyhawk

Protoavis73 wrote: »

Well better luck next time.
Some shouldn't take it so seriously imo, there are good players and bad players (and in between).
I'm now at CP310 but haven't done much BG's and would probably get killed more then I kill, it's all learning and having fun.

Its not about that, most of us have fun even if we're losing. Problem is CP10-159 is at a strict disadvantage over CP160 just due to gear cap. Doesn't matter if you're a good player at CP10, you just can't stand up to a fully geared player unless they're a complete dodo. To top it off, the mass majority of sub 160 players ARENT skilled to attempt to even make it at least even.

I would recommend buffing lower level (10-35) a bit Battle Spirit and including everything from Level 10 to CP159 in a BG queue group. There isnt much difference between a 50 and CP159 most of the time and it would prevent stuff like this from happening.

Maybe even reduce the XP needed to get to CP160 to begin with too. . . hmm.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Honestly, if MMR worked in a ranking system similar to how other games work, ie Overwatch or League of Legends, then this issue would 100% not be a problem. Whether you like those games not is irrelevant, you have to admit they're doing something right, and their ranking system works. We would not see newer player being bundled together with experienced players, and in that turn, get crushed against other experienced players.

From what I understand about MMR is you just have to keep playing it to raise it, whether you win or lose. Correct me if I'm wrong, pretty sure that's right although.

If Zenimax took PvP seriously in this game and focused more on it rather than DLC and cosmetics, I see ESO having rich battlegrounds experience. Guild vs Guilds (6v6s) and (12v12s), an actual ranking system where you have to first place to see where you'll be ranked, and then the ability to lose that rank if you lose matches, or grow in rank as you win.

Additionally, have seasons man! In my humble opinion, the way you get PvP items is just a burdance. Anyone who consistently PvPs will know they clutter up your mailbox, and most of the time they have little to no real market value when selling to the community because they're just so over inflated and ubiquitous. Easy solution would be to make them "End of Season Rewards".

Joy_Division

Your team's worst was better than the red team's worst.

It looks like your team lost the match because the other teams were better.

saucefarb16_ESO

No i'd say let it stay as it is, these high cp idiots often remind new players how easy it is to pvp with low cp, they should feel how it is themselves when playing with one.

There are enough restrictions as it is to low cp players returning to the game, you get to know you can't do this and this because your cp is too low, so you better grind for the next 6 months.

I call it justice.

DeadlyRecluse

Which makes more sense?

1). anyone can queue for BGs, regardless of level
2). Some paying customers are locked out of a product arbitrarily?

You win some, you lose some. If you disconnect your ego from PvP/BGs, you'll have a better time.

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

saucefarb16_ESO wrote: »

No i'd say let it stay as it is, these high cp idiots often remind new players how easy it is to pvp with low cp, they should feel how it is themselves when playing with one.

There are enough restrictions as it is to low cp players returning to the game, you get to know you can't do this and this because your cp is too low, so you better grind for the next 6 months.

I call it justice.

I uninstalled the game already, do I don't care lol

Joy_Division

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

saucefarb16_ESO wrote: »

No i'd say let it stay as it is, these high cp idiots often remind new players how easy it is to pvp with low cp, they should feel how it is themselves when playing with one.

There are enough restrictions as it is to low cp players returning to the game, you get to know you can't do this and this because your cp is too low, so you better grind for the next 6 months.

I call it justice.

I uninstalled the game already, do I don't care lol

You might also have caused the two people who finished above you to also uninstall out of frustration due to bad teammates. Zero assists, modest healing totals, and dying half-as much as the teammates you're supposed to be healing on the surface looks like someone afraid to get into the heat of battle and mist-forms away when things begin to take a turn for the worst.

iCaliban

VaranisArano wrote: »

Then we'd need a 3rd BGs queue for CP 1 through 159, and that would be really low population. Or do we just say "oops, sorry you outleveled the below level 50 ones, you can't play until you hit CP 160"?

Maybe roll under 50 into a new "under 160 battlegrounds" ?

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino

Joy_Division wrote: »

Rizz_the_Filthy_Dino wrote: »

saucefarb16_ESO wrote: »

No i'd say let it stay as it is, these high cp idiots often remind new players how easy it is to pvp with low cp, they should feel how it is themselves when playing with one.

There are enough restrictions as it is to low cp players returning to the game, you get to know you can't do this and this because your cp is too low, so you better grind for the next 6 months.

I call it justice.

I uninstalled the game already, do I don't care lol

You might also have caused the two people who finished above you to also uninstall out of frustration due to bad teammates. Zero assists, modest healing totals, and dying half-as much as the teammates you're supposed to be healing on the surface looks like someone afraid to get into the heat of battle and mist-forms away when things begin to take a turn for the worst.

There's a reason I have you on ignore now LOL
What a tool.

Zelda42O

I dream of being this petty.

To be honest, It looks like Ven tried to put you both on his back but the weight was just too much. I wouldn't have posted this as I don't think the 0 and 11 guy was the only problem on that team.