Does ZOS Cover Crown/Gold Trades

KingMagaw

Evening all. Was recently speaking about this in a guild, decent debate. One player claimed he made a trade with someone, his gold for their crowns. He traded the gold as someone has to go first but the other didn't gift and scammed him. He sent recorded video of this all to ZOS and they replied stating:

Player market in ESO is a buyer beware market etc etc etc.

If you do fall for such a scam again we will not be able to refund you a second time.


So, ZOs will cover it once as clearly it is a scam in the game as both items cannot be in the ready window at the same time. But not the second time? Doesn't seem right to me.

Has anyone had any experiences with this?. @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reply with an official stance on this

Elsonso

I suppose you could interpret it this way: ZOS does not cover it at all, but the CSR gave it to him this one time.

Tandor

Get fooled once, they'll look after you. Fail to learn from the experience and get fooled a second time, that's down to you.

That sounds a reasonable approach to me, not least as they have to impose some responsibility on the players if they are to prevent carefree - as opposed to careless - behaviour resulting in the gumming up of Support's resources.

Don't trade stuff with strangers that you cannot afford to lose - it's as simple as that.

Cpt_Teemo

Yeah buyers market for that stuff, I always accept the gift upfront and then pay been doing that ever since it was made available, bought nearly 40k+ crowns so far

weedgenius

Tandor wrote: »

Get fooled once, they'll look after you. Fail to learn from the experience and get fooled a second time, that's down to you.

That sounds a reasonable approach to me, not least as they have to impose some responsibility on the players if they are to prevent carefree - as opposed to careless - behaviour resulting in the gumming up of Support's resources.

Don't trade stuff with strangers that you cannot afford to lose - it's as simple as that.

Sounds right. I got scammed with a Crown/gold trade and reported it. The message I got was the same as OP posted, no refunds because the onus is on the buyer to not get scammed, but they made a "one time exception" and refunded me. I definitely will never buy Crowns for gold from someone I don't know personally again. I learned my lesson and I appreciate that they helped me out the first time around.

VaranisArano

ZOS said they would, but cautioned everyone to keep records of the trade. Screenshots are a good idea.

Reverb

Several people in my Trade Guild have used the GM and Officers to broker crown exchanges.

- The buyer sends the gold to the Officer, or deposits it into the guild bank, and the Officer confirms to the seller that the funds are secured.

- The seller gifts the item(s) and notifies the Officer and the seller

- The buyer confirms receipt, and the Officer sends the gold to the seller

- The seller takes screenshots of the gift confirmation window to be posted into Discord if the buyer claims to not receive the items.

- if the buyer doesn’t receive items and the seller doesn’t have the confirmation, gold is refunded by the Officer (I’ve never heard of this happening, but it’s a clear provision of the process)

It adds a layer of complexity, but gives some assurances to the seller. Of course there’s a chance that your broker could rip you off, but a trusted leader in a high profile and well reputed guild is a lower risk than a zone chat random.

Cryptical

Sounds like the customer service rep isn’t up to speed.

It’s an in-game item traded for an in-game item, but their software hasn’t been updated to be able to handle those specific two items yet, so it is a trade that is not yet scam-proof like the trade window. The trade window has undergone several software updates to close out the possibility of scammers.

When someone doesn’t follow through on the crown/gold trade, it isn’t a matter of caveat emptor (let the buyer beware). It is a matter of one person violating the terms of service - making use of a shortfall in the game software to exploit other people and gain gold.

When someone is reporting a crown/gold trade scammer, they are reporting a bannable offense. That sort of report will never be limited to “just this once”.

Perwulf

Prevention is still the best solution.

Join TCE EU/NA guild at discord if you want more insurance. I've already tried buying there but just make sure you read all faqs before ordering one. However, prices might be higher in TCE 200:1 but if you get scammed, officers will reimburse you though it rarely happens.

Also as the guy above me said, a broker transaction could work but there is still a risk involved. On the plus side, you'll probably find a better deal like one time in my Guild, a 100:1 ratio.

Dawnblade

Stupid system is stupid.

ZOS should provide players with actual objects (container or 'on use' items) from the Crown Store that can be traded in-game or sold through guild stores.

Vuron

I've sold crowns a few time since I've been back. I even made a sale last night with a stranger who was asking for crowns in zone chat.

It really is a trusting system. There are brokers you can use, you can try to use guild leadership, or even external sites, but it still comes down to trust.

I would suggest documenting everything, screen caps or vids of the agreement.

mreisse

I only use the brokered system of the Tamriel Crown Exchange (TCE) discord group because they guarantee exchanges. Yes it's more gold up front (currently 200:1) but I'll pay for the peace of mind.

Swomp23

Reverb wrote: »

Several people in my Trade Guild have used the GM and Officers to broker crown exchanges.

- The buyer sends the gold to the Officer, or deposits it into the guild bank, and the Officer confirms to the seller that the funds are secured.

- The seller gifts the item(s) and notifies the Officer and the seller

- The buyer confirms receipt, and the Officer sends the gold to the seller

- The seller takes screenshots of the gift confirmation window to be posted into Discord if the buyer claims to not receive the items.

- if the buyer doesn’t receive items and the seller doesn’t have the confirmation, gold is refunded by the Officer (I’ve never heard of this happening, but it’s a clear provision of the process)

It adds a layer of complexity, but gives some assurances to the seller. Of course there’s a chance that your broker could rip you off, but a trusted leader in a high profile and well reputed guild is a lower risk than a zone chat random.

Interesting system.

My trading guild has a ''Certified crown seller program'' that will refund any guild member scammed by onw of their certified seller.

Go Team Sauce!

Elsonso

Swomp23 wrote: »

My trading guild has a ''Certified crown seller program'' that will refund any guild member scammed by onw of their certified seller.

Go Team Sauce!

Cryptical

It’s not actually a trust system. There are logs.

Chat is recorded.

There is a hard drive at zeni headquarters saving every single scrap of text people type. Each swear, slur, misspelling, guild recruiting message, trade deal etc is kept.

Screenshots make it easier for them to enforce the terms of service on a crown scammer, but if you don’t have any then zeni always has their recorded text log.

When I buy crowns, I’m not extending any trust to anyone, because I know I’m already standing on the solid ground of zeni’s TOS and zeni’s text logs. I’ve bought at a 60 gold to 1 crown rate without hesitation or fear of “too good to be true” because of that solid ground.

And I’m on console, where people can appear and disappear in a wisp of smoke, so the worry that pc people have over this is weird.

Dymence

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s not actually a trust system. There are logs.

Chat is recorded.

There is a hard drive at zeni headquarters saving every single scrap of text people type. Each swear, slur, misspelling, guild recruiting message, trade deal etc is kept.

Screenshots make it easier for them to enforce the terms of service on a crown scammer, but if you don’t have any then zeni always has their recorded text log.

When I buy crowns, I’m not extending any trust to anyone, because I know I’m already standing on the solid ground of zeni’s TOS and zeni’s text logs. I’ve bought at a 60 gold to 1 crown rate without hesitation or fear of “too good to be true” because of that solid ground.

And I’m on console, where people can appear and disappear in a wisp of smoke, so the worry that pc people have over this is weird.

Just because there are logs doesn't mean ZOS has to enforce on them. Your trust is misplaced.

KingMagaw

@ZOS_GinaBruno - Can you give an official stance on this?.


Your customer service representative stated you only cover 1 trade and anything else you can be scammed in game with no consequence, which seems against TOS.

At least add in COD for crowns tore gifts, or some way for people to use the in game function ZOS made.

zaria

Dymence wrote: »

Cryptical wrote: »

It’s not actually a trust system. There are logs.

Chat is recorded.

There is a hard drive at zeni headquarters saving every single scrap of text people type. Each swear, slur, misspelling, guild recruiting message, trade deal etc is kept.

Screenshots make it easier for them to enforce the terms of service on a crown scammer, but if you don’t have any then zeni always has their recorded text log.

When I buy crowns, I’m not extending any trust to anyone, because I know I’m already standing on the solid ground of zeni’s TOS and zeni’s text logs. I’ve bought at a 60 gold to 1 crown rate without hesitation or fear of “too good to be true” because of that solid ground.

And I’m on console, where people can appear and disappear in a wisp of smoke, so the worry that pc people have over this is weird.

Just because there are logs doesn't mean ZOS has to enforce on them. Your trust is misplaced.

This, some has to take notice of your complaint and handle it.
This will require time as you has to dive into logs both chat and transactions.
And yes shots and even more timestamps are critical.

And always report even if just an pathetic scam simply as you help pad the scums file.

Perwulf

THE REAL QUESTION IS
Will they get banned? Apply this and trust me, no one will scam or get scammed. If this isn't a thing then ZOS doesn't support golds to crown but instead just giving it a yes because the majority demands it, not complying with that will surely bring an outcry.

Also, before you say; What if it's a dummy account? First of all, no one in the right mind trade against a low level accounts. If you do then shame on you, you deserved to get scammed.

But but what if... account was hacked? We have 2-step-authenticator like apps, sms, alt email, etc. now a days, It is nigh impossible to easily hack that. If you got hacked then shame on you, you deserve to get hacked for installing viruses from ***.

Runs

Perwulf wrote: »

THE REAL QUESTION IS
Will they get banned? Apply this and trust me, no one will scam or get scammed. If this isn't a thing then ZOS doesn't support golds to crown but instead just giving it a yes because the majority demands it, not complying with that will surely bring an outcry.

Also, before you say; What if it's a dummy account? First of all, no one in the right mind trade against a low level accounts. If you do then shame on you, you deserved to get scammed.

But but what if... account was hacked? We have 2-step-authenticator like apps, sms, alt email, etc. now a days, It is nigh impossible to easily hack that. If you got hacked then shame on you, you deserve to get hacked for installing viruses from ***.

I believe there have been players banned over trade scams.

While ZOS wont tell you if a player is banned, they have given an in-game method of finding out yourself. If something goes wrong, or if you are reporting a player for any reason, add them to your ignore list. If they stay on that list, they have not been banned. If they change their @name, it will also get changed on your list. If they no longer appear in your ignore list, they have been banned. If you try to add them after and the name doesn't get added or says no known player or whatnot, then they either got banned or changed their @name which is why you should add it before hand.

I believe this system is why "Chet" always says to ignore someone when you make a report.

ZOS could and should institute a COD function to the gifting system, with full refund of crown item if unpaid instead of just making you regift it to someone else as it is now when items are not accepted. This would get rid of the worries people have of getting scammed and more importantly for ZOS remove the man hours spent on reports of such.

If account was hacked, then they also hacked the players email account as logging in from an unknown device or IP address triggers a code mailed to the email you sign up with before you can log in. I fully suspect the majority of "hacks" are either false reports or sibling/spouses logging on for revenge or to get the person to eventually quit playing a game that takes so much of their time.

JKorr

My one GM does the "escrow" thing; people let the gm know they have crowns to sell or they want to buy X amount of crowns. GM matches sellers with buyers, and lets the seller know the buyer wants the Merchant/Banker/mount/whatever. The seller buys and gifts the "whatever" to the buyer. When the buyer accepts the gift and notifies the gm the deal is completed, the gm sends the gold. Haven't heard of anyone in the guild cheating anyone else yet.

ATomiX96

KingMagaw wrote: »

Evening all. Was recently speaking about this in a guild, decent debate. One player claimed he made a trade with someone, his gold for their crowns. He traded the gold as someone has to go first but the other didn't gift and scammed him. He sent recorded video of this all to ZOS and they replied stating:

Player market in ESO is a buyer beware market etc etc etc.

If you do fall for such a scam again we will not be able to refund you a second time.


So, ZOs will cover it once as clearly it is a scam in the game as both items cannot be in the ready window at the same time. But not the second time? Doesn't seem right to me.

Has anyone had any experiences with this?. @ZOS_GinaBruno Please reply with an official stance on this

its more like, first time is like an insurance, if you get scammed a 2nd time you clearly didnt learn from your mistakes so its your own fault.

supaskrub

JKorr wrote: »

My one GM does the "escrow" thing; people let the gm know they have crowns to sell or they want to buy X amount of crowns. GM matches sellers with buyers, and lets the seller know the buyer wants the Merchant/Banker/mount/whatever. The seller buys and gifts the "whatever" to the buyer. When the buyer accepts the gift and notifies the gm the deal is completed, the gm sends the gold. Haven't heard of anyone in the guild cheating anyone else yet.

Pretty much how I do it in my guild, easy system to have in place. We use our Facebook group for requests of exchanges, the two traders decide on the exchange details, buyer mails me the gold and I screenshot the mail and add the screeny to the trade thread and notify the other trader they are now free to gift the item.

Seller adds a screenshot of their gifted items and I release the buyers mail to the seller, ironically the buyer often adds a screenshot of the gifted items “accept this item” nag screen too. Flawless system and scam free. I generally oversee at least 5 trades per day and many more when limited edition items go on release.