How do you feel about current state of speed since murkimire?

Tasear

How have you adjusted? Do skills feel potent but not overwhelming? How are sets that had speed changes? How are you liking jelwery and mundus change?

LaveniaRose

I've adjusted by avoiding all of my stamina toons in PvP and switched to playing mainly ice wardens. My greatest pleasure is inflicting misery on others after all.

I've also started working on housing and looking at fishing next. PvP on a stamina toon is fine; there's nothing incredibly wrong with it. It's just not as fun as every previous patch.

Silver_Strider

Never bothered with Major Expedition much before the change and Swift was primarily just a farming tool before the nerfs as well. The only thing I can truly say I miss is Falcon Swiftness on my Warden. Recasting the ability constantly for the speed buff really just made casting the skill not worth it in most cases that, if it wasn't for the Minor Berserk, I don't think the skill would even be on my hotbar anymore since it just doesn't feel worth it to cast it for a short speed buff and a mediocre regen buff.

fred4

The fact that speed pots, Forward Momentum, Crippling Grasp, etc, have been nerfed makes me wish the stupid Swift trait had never been invented.

IAVITNI

I've adapted. There are ways to get speed. (solo/small-scale PvP focused)

I have a form of mobility on all my builds (all classes but magblade), although for magicka it's mist for 3/5 classes. Sprint only works as a form of open world mobility because stam classes can couple it with dodge roll. Magicka sprinters (accelerate) sacrifice too much for sprint to be a consistently viable option.

Magicka:

Cloak:
Over-performing. Period. Technically it isn't part of this discussion but deserves an honourable mention because it achieves many of the same goals of mobility, but at a far better cost-benefit ratio.

Streak:
Remove the momentum freeze and clunkiness before and after cast. Skill is fine. Arguably needs a cost decrease since sorcs are hurting stat-wise. But that would depend on overall direction of the class.

Boundless Storm:
Is now contesting Streak for mobility. 4 seconds of Major Expedition for ~4k just isn't worth it. This skill is now only used so you don't have to slot Chudan and can go with Blood Spawn.

Little Sorc Rant (as it is a class built around mobility)

It only benefits sorcs because current meta is to build tanky. So while sorc is still technically viable, it feels more like building a DK than a sorc. Mobility and zoning are supposed to be a sorcs defence. This just isn't the case. I have gripes with current sorc balance yet I never thought it would die in Murkmire but thats for a different thread. I will say Streak should have its clunkiness "unnerfed". The class has to over invest into both mitigation and sustain now. Greater access leading to reliance on mobility, which the class kit is geared towards, would help alleviate some requirement for mitigation and spread out build resources.

Falcon's Swiftness:
Should have the longest Major Expedition duration. Bird of Prey is debatable but right now its just a buff slot. It really hurt magden combat mobility, which also makes it harder to land Scorch. Streamlining duration was a poor choice.

Why not stream line every Major Buff? Make all Major Ward and Major Resolve 3 second buffs to match nightblades. Simply a horrible decision that was done because the dev team did not want to spend time actually balancing the durations.
As a magsorc main, the shield cast times did not make me want to quite the game. But the homogenization of Major Expedition durations have made me play far less. To me, its an admittance of incompetence and a sign that the game is in poor hands. I won't deny each patch does improve the game overall, but they are all marred by lazy decisions such as this.

Mist Form:
This skill is arguably overpowered. I use this on 3 classes and the difference in survivability is huge. 4 seconds is nigh invincibility. That said, only reason this skill is overpowered is because it now has the same duration of Major Expedition as every other source. There was a reason this skill had the shortest duration. Please read my rant on duration homogenization again because it that decision is going to get the only skill that makes true solo mag plar/dk/den builds work nerfed into the ground. 4 seconds should never have been made the baseline. Skill could be reduced to 3 seconds or have mitigation reduced to 50% IF it gets changed. Should be left untouched and other mobility should get buffed. Still locks regen and prevents player from actually doing damage. No different than blocking but you can't even cast skills.

Accelerate:
Neat-o idea. Offers little for solo as stamina has better options and does not actually allow mag to escape anything. Could compete with Mist Form if it reduced the cost of the next Roll Dodge. Sprint NEEDS to be coupled with roll dodge for effective open-world mobility. 3 second duration is really short. Should be 4 (equal to or greater than Mist).

Stamina:

Mobility pots: (no mag equivalent so will ignore niche specs)
Are still decent. Duration is meh. I'd rather use tri-pots on every single spec personally. This change hurt solo players the most. Solo player rant:

In return solo players were given the realization that zergs mobility was not nerfed at all. Smaller numbers should = greater mobility. That simply is not the case. Solo is still alive but it is a lot harder and niche for stam classes in solo (not zerg-surfing) open-world. Current meta is either build into aids tanky or build so much DPS you kill before you die. LoS cheese is the only thing solo players have left. Inb4 they nerf trees.

Haste (Bow passive):
Change isn't noticeable. There was no need to decrease the duration to 4 seconds. This should have stayed at 5 as it needs to be longer than mist but it is technically free so should not be longer than 6 (which is my personal sweet-spot for base line Major Expedition).

Quick Cloak:
Good skill. Hard to balance with new Major Evasion so while it feels expensive as a source of Major Expedition it's still a good skill. Base duration for mobility should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. Run this with BRP DW weapons as a defensive buff bar with 2h front bar. Your welcome.

Hurricane:
Stam Sorcs have their identity back, ish. This skill is fine in terms of mobility. Honorable mention of Dark Deal, as it required mobility to use. The nerf to Dark Deal has arguably made Hurricane too expensive for what it does. Skill needs a better cost ratio or a slight buff.

Gear:

Vicious Ophidian:
8 seconds is fine since something dies when you need it anyways. Still one of the strongest PvE stam sets.

Quick Serpent:
Outclassed by by marksman and combat acrobat. The conditional 8 seconds on kill is meh. Just a bad set in general. The duration didn't need to be changed as it was arguably the hardest condition to meet in PvP and I doubt adds in PvE care how fast players move.

Dreugh King Slayer:
Could have left duration or extended it even. Anyone actually running this set needs all the help they can get.

Skooma Smuggler:
I was upset that this set wasn't nerfed into the ground at first. Tested it out. You lose a lot to run this set. The 5th piece could benefit with a small bonus. Right now the 5 piece is nice but lack-lustre as it required infused potion jewelry to have viable uptime without sacrificing too much. Having built in Potion cooldown reduction could work and follows the set themes of speeding things up. Major Expedition is honestly not that strong on it's own, alluding back to Swift being the actual problem in conjunction with increased popularity of speed pots. JUST Major expedition is not worth a 5 pc.

Swift:
Trait was over-nerfed. I barely (I don't I'm just being polite) notice the trait now. If it also reduced cost of sprint might be worth.

Mundus:

The Steed:
Group play does not need this as they have Rapid spam. Solo benefits far more from other conventional Mundus Stones. PvE/farming builds could use it I suppose. Max Health bonuses are slightly higher than mag/stam. Health Recovery should follow the same rule. May be enough to make this Mundus worth the slot along with the extra mobility. Right now it is too huge of an opportunity cost.

TL;DR:
Base duration of Major Expedition skills should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. This is enough time to actually go offensive with the buff while not providing too much defensive benefits.

Falcon's Swiftness should have the longest duration of 7.5-8 seconds.

Mist should remain at 4 as a strong purely defensive option.

Acceleration should be increased to 4 for base duration. Channeled may need to be adjusted down to match Falcon's Swiftness.

Haste should fall in-between as it is technically free .

Speed pots aren't useless but aren't that great either.

Gear Sets:
Major Expedition <<<<<< actual 5 pc.

Swift:
"Over-Nerfed". Current value feels...fine? requires a secondary benefit to actually be useful.

The Steed:
Increase Health/Mag/Stam Recovery ratio bonuses to match Max Health/Mag/Stam and this Mundus should actually see use.


PLEASE have ZoS rethink homogenizing durations. It kills diversity and skill/class identity. It also makes the skills harder to balance as it removes an entire variable that they could use for balance (duration).

Nerftheforums

Freaking terrible. The loss of speed pots make me not want to move away from my stamnb. Being so slow forces you to build tanky/invest in swift and the steed, thus reducing your damage and healing potential. If you are severely outnumbered, now you have little to no choice but die. There are so little ways to overcome this issue,and all of them are inefficient. Zos has been zos once again: incompetent blank nerfing has hit us players again. And, surprisingly, even if murkmire, the game became less enjoyable for some of us. I never thought it could be worse: I guess there seriously is no limit to stupidity and incompetency.

Kingslayer513

Honestly I really hate it. Y'all can argue up and down all day about balance, tell me about people abusing swift, that I need to L2P and adapt, but at the end of the day this slowed pvp is less fun now than it was before the nerfs. PVP is the only area of the game that I can say is consistently losing players over the long term, and this homogenization of everything to be less fun is not helping at all.

Vapirko

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Honestly I really hate it. Y'all can argue up and down all day about balance, tell me about people abusing swift, that I need to L2P and adapt, but at the end of the day this slowed pvp is less fun now than it was before the nerfs. PVP is the only area of the game that I can say is consistently losing players over the long term, and this homogenization of everything to be less fun is not helping at all.

Well just per usual it was too much but then ZOS way over nerfed speed and on top of that beat the *** out of snare immunity. Seriously you gotta wonder what the *** thought process is over there. Plus I’m sure you’ve seen the amount of QQ threads about how stamina is still too strong. I’d suspect more incoming nerfs to stamina. Scrub mag sorcs wont be happy until they can run 3 pets, infinite shields and spam wrath again.

Hotdog_23

All classes should have some form of Major Expedition built into their skills that works on cast and not tied to a condition such as DK chains. The game has changed to motility from standing your ground. Personally only ever use swift on my farming character. I see a lot of talk on the forums about nerfing Rapid Maneuver because of ball groups. But I personally love the skill in pve content so I hope they do not change it at all.

Kram8ion

Gone from one swift ring to twice born and steed mundus all devines for the 15% speed boost so actually faster with relatively same sacrifice pair with any number of damage sets for my stamblade, making me a little more picky about strategy but at this stage surviving everything isn't a priority and I just can't go back to slow but it has ruined a couple of sets for me and pots I wouldn't even bother now

Crixus8000

I have adjusted by taking a break until pvp is more fun. Being unable to move is terrible when outnumbered. My main char is an orc stamsorc. I also use steed mundus yet I feel so damn slow, it seems anyone can catch me, and in outnumbered fights I spend all my time just breaking snares. Say I have multiple people attacking me, they will be spamming snares like crazy since they are basically free, so I have to use forward then have like 3 seconds to use buffs/heals or go offensive before I'm completely locked down again. It's too short a time when mixed with major expedition loss. Speed is terrible right now.

Kadoin

Didn't change much for me. Then again I played DK and Templar mostly and never crutched on bugging speed. I also rarely used speed pot, but when I did on DK and Templar (max alchemy), I can see how having major expedition 100%+ of the time was too powerful and an overwhelming advantage. I don't equate "fun" to always winning and having an enormous advantage over everyone else, but maybe that's just me.

Also, considering you can still bug the speed system even at 30% speed (and base speed if you move the right way), I'd say that the nerf is justified if they can't fix the targeting system. Now you can have speed, but you can't be bugging the targeting system with a build capable of one-shots.


No more speed buggers in BGs and Cyro. No more idiots moving out of the range of snares and preventing snare and immobolize by abusing a bug. No more need to slot 100% ranged skills because melee didn't work reliably. No more need to stop attacking and wait for the speedtard to run back to me and DBoS me, block it, have them out of range immediately after, then attack ranged to build ult and rinse-repeat until I eventually killed them or their buddies showed up and killed me.

Life is good...

Strangely enough, its almost as if swift disappeared overnight. If that wasn't a sign it was OP, I don't know what is. I'll admit, I will miss punishing speedsters. That never got old, esp. the rage whispers.

RIP Speed bugging: Morrowind - Murkmire. You will be missed...just not by me!

Biro123

Love it!

My magsorc can kite again (apart from the rapids-spamming zergs) - and I can actually target people!

Although I dropped in on my stamplar for a bit and found it hard work.. I kind of think the overall speed reductions were good (fixing the biggest problem with it - targeting), but the immunity duration nerfs from stuff like fwd momentum were overdone, imho.

Ragnarock41

Dk mobility on both specs are horrible. SnB/2h builds have no access to major expedition now outside of sets like cowards.

And running bow/2h is not viable cause both weapons have terribly long heavy attacks with also terribly slow spammables. Something that matters a lot in no cp/bgs.

React

The nerf to swift and potion uptime was necessary. However, the expedition should have been reduced to 20-30 seconds on potions, not 15. Equating major expedition in value to major vitality shows that the developers do not truly understand combat and balance. Swift was too strong, and while I think the better solution would have been to make swift have diminishing returns (1 swift = 10%, 2nd swift = 5%, 3rd swift = 2%), I'm happy with the adjustment they chose.

The real kick in the balls for stamina is the fact that, for some unknown reason, they felt the need to nerf EVERY source of expedition. Hasty retreat (bow), skills like quick cloak, boundless storm, empowering chains, sets like VO & dreugh king, etc did NOT need to be reduced, as they all offered short duration expedition at the cost of resources (apart from the sets which required you to kill something and only really functioned in PvE). Channeled acceleration has become the most effective source of expedition, and that is pretty difficult to sustain on most stam classes when you have vital buffs that cost magicka to keep up with. Not to mention that in XB NA lag, channeled becomes more of a 3 second cast time than a 1.2 second one.

I use the steed on most stam classes in place of swift now. It's a slight damage loss, but if you swap that jewelry piece to infused or robust you can mitigate this loss, and you gain a little health regen which is nice. I think the steed is an effective option now and I'm glad they choose to buff it, as it has sort of become a saving grace in the speed-nerfmire.

Tl;dr - Potions should be 20-30s, skills like boundless, quick cloak, empowering chains, bow dodge roll should be buffed back up to previous duration (perhaps a second or two further on some).

Illuvatarr

Perfect. An excellent change and look forward to more changes to bring stamina into balance with magicka.

CompM4s

I really wish they left speed potions alone.

Weps

It feels better because I haven't encountered a troll build that was just speedy-gonzalesing around with all the snares in the world. In the final days of Wolfhunter there were people who were faster without major expedition, but with a weak snare on, than my 5 pieces medium stamina with Major Exp. If feels more balanced and less BS

Minno

IAVITNI wrote: »

I've adapted. There are ways to get speed. (solo/small-scale PvP focused)

I have a form of mobility on all my builds (all classes but magblade), although for magicka it's mist for 3/5 classes. Sprint only works as a form of open world mobility because stam classes can couple it with dodge roll. Magicka sprinters (accelerate) sacrifice too much for sprint to be a consistently viable option.

Magicka:

Cloak:
Over-performing. Period. Technically it isn't part of this discussion but deserves an honourable mention because it achieves many of the same goals of mobility, but at a far better cost-benefit ratio.

Streak:
Remove the momentum freeze and clunkiness before and after cast. Skill is fine. Arguably needs a cost decrease since sorcs are hurting stat-wise. But that would depend on overall direction of the class.

Boundless Storm:
Is now contesting Streak for mobility. 4 seconds of Major Expedition for ~4k just isn't worth it. This skill is now only used so you don't have to slot Chudan and can go with Blood Spawn.

Little Sorc Rant (as it is a class built around mobility)

It only benefits sorcs because current meta is to build tanky. So while sorc is still technically viable, it feels more like building a DK than a sorc. Mobility and zoning are supposed to be a sorcs defence. This just isn't the case. I have gripes with current sorc balance yet I never thought it would die in Murkmire but thats for a different thread. I will say Streak should have its clunkiness "unnerfed". The class has to over invest into both mitigation and sustain now. Greater access leading to reliance on mobility, which the class kit is geared towards, would help alleviate some requirement for mitigation and spread out build resources.

Falcon's Swiftness:
Should have the longest Major Expedition duration. Bird of Prey is debatable but right now its just a buff slot. It really hurt magden combat mobility, which also makes it harder to land Scorch. Streamlining duration was a poor choice.

Why not stream line every Major Buff? Make all Major Ward and Major Resolve 3 second buffs to match nightblades. Simply a horrible decision that was done because the dev team did not want to spend time actually balancing the durations.
As a magsorc main, the shield cast times did not make me want to quite the game. But the homogenization of Major Expedition durations have made me play far less. To me, its an admittance of incompetence and a sign that the game is in poor hands. I won't deny each patch does improve the game overall, but they are all marred by lazy decisions such as this.

Mist Form:
This skill is arguably overpowered. I use this on 3 classes and the difference in survivability is huge. 4 seconds is nigh invincibility. That said, only reason this skill is overpowered is because it now has the same duration of Major Expedition as every other source. There was a reason this skill had the shortest duration. Please read my rant on duration homogenization again because it that decision is going to get the only skill that makes true solo mag plar/dk/den builds work nerfed into the ground. 4 seconds should never have been made the baseline. Skill could be reduced to 3 seconds or have mitigation reduced to 50% IF it gets changed. Should be left untouched and other mobility should get buffed. Still locks regen and prevents player from actually doing damage. No different than blocking but you can't even cast skills.

Accelerate:
Neat-o idea. Offers little for solo as stamina has better options and does not actually allow mag to escape anything. Could compete with Mist Form if it reduced the cost of the next Roll Dodge. Sprint NEEDS to be coupled with roll dodge for effective open-world mobility. 3 second duration is really short. Should be 4 (equal to or greater than Mist).

Stamina:

Mobility pots: (no mag equivalent so will ignore niche specs)
Are still decent. Duration is meh. I'd rather use tri-pots on every single spec personally. This change hurt solo players the most. Solo player rant:

In return solo players were given the realization that zergs mobility was not nerfed at all. Smaller numbers should = greater mobility. That simply is not the case. Solo is still alive but it is a lot harder and niche for stam classes in solo (not zerg-surfing) open-world. Current meta is either build into aids tanky or build so much DPS you kill before you die. LoS cheese is the only thing solo players have left. Inb4 they nerf trees.

Haste (Bow passive):
Change isn't noticeable. There was no need to decrease the duration to 4 seconds. This should have stayed at 5 as it needs to be longer than mist but it is technically free so should not be longer than 6 (which is my personal sweet-spot for base line Major Expedition).

Quick Cloak:
Good skill. Hard to balance with new Major Evasion so while it feels expensive as a source of Major Expedition it's still a good skill. Base duration for mobility should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. Run this with BRP DW weapons as a defensive buff bar with 2h front bar. Your welcome.

Hurricane:
Stam Sorcs have their identity back, ish. This skill is fine in terms of mobility. Honorable mention of Dark Deal, as it required mobility to use. The nerf to Dark Deal has arguably made Hurricane too expensive for what it does. Skill needs a better cost ratio or a slight buff.

Gear:

Vicious Ophidian:
8 seconds is fine since something dies when you need it anyways. Still one of the strongest PvE stam sets.

Quick Serpent:
Outclassed by by marksman and combat acrobat. The conditional 8 seconds on kill is meh. Just a bad set in general. The duration didn't need to be changed as it was arguably the hardest condition to meet in PvP and I doubt adds in PvE care how fast players move.

Dreugh King Slayer:
Could have left duration or extended it even. Anyone actually running this set needs all the help they can get.

Skooma Smuggler:
I was upset that this set wasn't nerfed into the ground at first. Tested it out. You lose a lot to run this set. The 5th piece could benefit with a small bonus. Right now the 5 piece is nice but lack-lustre as it required infused potion jewelry to have viable uptime without sacrificing too much. Having built in Potion cooldown reduction could work and follows the set themes of speeding things up. Major Expedition is honestly not that strong on it's own, alluding back to Swift being the actual problem in conjunction with increased popularity of speed pots. JUST Major expedition is not worth a 5 pc.

Swift:
Trait was over-nerfed. I barely (I don't I'm just being polite) notice the trait now. If it also reduced cost of sprint might be worth.

Mundus:

The Steed:
Group play does not need this as they have Rapid spam. Solo benefits far more from other conventional Mundus Stones. PvE/farming builds could use it I suppose. Max Health bonuses are slightly higher than mag/stam. Health Recovery should follow the same rule. May be enough to make this Mundus worth the slot along with the extra mobility. Right now it is too huge of an opportunity cost.

TL;DR:
Base duration of Major Expedition skills should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. This is enough time to actually go offensive with the buff while not providing too much defensive benefits.

Falcon's Swiftness should have the longest duration of 7.5-8 seconds.

Mist should remain at 4 as a strong purely defensive option.

Acceleration should be increased to 4 for base duration. Channeled may need to be adjusted down to match Falcon's Swiftness.

Haste should fall in-between as it is technically free .

Speed pots aren't useless but aren't that great either.

Gear Sets:
Major Expedition <<<<<< actual 5 pc.

Swift:
"Over-Nerfed". Current value feels...fine? requires a secondary benefit to actually be useful.

The Steed:
Increase Health/Mag/Stam Recovery ratio bonuses to match Max Health/Mag/Stam and this Mundus should actually see use.


PLEASE have ZoS rethink homogenizing durations. It kills diversity and skill/class identity. It also makes the skills harder to balance as it removes an entire variable that they could use for balance (duration).

I don't agree with your assessment of mist form mostly because you forgot a few things that make mist balanced:
- you have to be vamp. Dawnbreaker/fire is a pain which requires mist/bats to balance out. 75% mitigation is necessary dropping to 50% would be a weaker form of block.
- can't heal in the mist channel!
- 75% mitigation/immunity to snare/cc is only gained while in the channel. Which turns off your mag regen and can't sprint.
- expensive skill! 3500 on a breton in light armor isn't exactly "spamable".
- no snare/cc immunity outside channel.
- 4 seconds is fine, but that should be the lowest duration for overloaded abilities. Therefore I agree all over major exp sources be increased to 2 seconds.

And there might be other ways to balance stealth/cloak:
- remove the dot immunity on the damage only so if they want to roll around in stealth they have to reposition to heal up.
- better designed GTAOEs so players can make bar-space decisions to get the tools they need to pull targets out of stealth.
- once out of stealth, should take more effort to get back into it (but gain a huge offensive boost for that first stealth attack).

swift should:
- mimic windrunner passive for nCP pvp. If swift got reduced from 9% down to 5% purple, they should let you increase health/mag regen by x percent. Something small but a nice extra theorycraft bonus and to help races without regen gain some bonus back. Or larger percent but only while sprinting so you have to be moving to gain the benefit.
- or reduce snares for the missing percent
- or give back the missing speed via SPRINT.

I like the steed change, but the mag/health/stam regen would have to be really small.

Acceleration is weird, in that it has an offensive bonus but it's speed is too low. Either give major sorcery or increase the speed to be 6 seconds with 6 seconds of sprint cost reduction.

Falcon swiftness should be highest duration of all mobility sources (something like for the entire duration of the ability.)

Sorc armor buff to get additional defense or additional offense added to compensate for speed nerfs. return to 6 seconds to match other sources as well.

quick cloak should have its duration reduced to 4 seconds. it procs enchants passively.

Weps

The problem isn't Mist itself...the problem is that if you want to play melee magicka you're almost forced to be a vamp and have it on or go heavy armor. If magicka melee builds had other forms of resetting fights and get their asses out of an hairy situation, Mist form wouldn't be such an issue to a lot of people.

FakeFox

Zergs got stronger, soloplayers weaker, so everything how it should be...

danno8

I would have preferred if they lowered the speed cap to +75% in PvP only, keeping +100% in PvE.

The main problem I was having was max speed enemies were simply impossible to target unless they were moving in a straight line away from you.

IAVITNI

Minno wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

I've adapted. There are ways to get speed. (solo/small-scale PvP focused)

I have a form of mobility on all my builds (all classes but magblade), although for magicka it's mist for 3/5 classes. Sprint only works as a form of open world mobility because stam classes can couple it with dodge roll. Magicka sprinters (accelerate) sacrifice too much for sprint to be a consistently viable option.

Magicka:

Cloak:
Over-performing. Period. Technically it isn't part of this discussion but deserves an honourable mention because it achieves many of the same goals of mobility, but at a far better cost-benefit ratio.

Streak:
Remove the momentum freeze and clunkiness before and after cast. Skill is fine. Arguably needs a cost decrease since sorcs are hurting stat-wise. But that would depend on overall direction of the class.

Boundless Storm:
Is now contesting Streak for mobility. 4 seconds of Major Expedition for ~4k just isn't worth it. This skill is now only used so you don't have to slot Chudan and can go with Blood Spawn.

Little Sorc Rant (as it is a class built around mobility)

It only benefits sorcs because current meta is to build tanky. So while sorc is still technically viable, it feels more like building a DK than a sorc. Mobility and zoning are supposed to be a sorcs defence. This just isn't the case. I have gripes with current sorc balance yet I never thought it would die in Murkmire but thats for a different thread. I will say Streak should have its clunkiness "unnerfed". The class has to over invest into both mitigation and sustain now. Greater access leading to reliance on mobility, which the class kit is geared towards, would help alleviate some requirement for mitigation and spread out build resources.

Falcon's Swiftness:
Should have the longest Major Expedition duration. Bird of Prey is debatable but right now its just a buff slot. It really hurt magden combat mobility, which also makes it harder to land Scorch. Streamlining duration was a poor choice.

Why not stream line every Major Buff? Make all Major Ward and Major Resolve 3 second buffs to match nightblades. Simply a horrible decision that was done because the dev team did not want to spend time actually balancing the durations.
As a magsorc main, the shield cast times did not make me want to quite the game. But the homogenization of Major Expedition durations have made me play far less. To me, its an admittance of incompetence and a sign that the game is in poor hands. I won't deny each patch does improve the game overall, but they are all marred by lazy decisions such as this.

Mist Form:
This skill is arguably overpowered. I use this on 3 classes and the difference in survivability is huge. 4 seconds is nigh invincibility. That said, only reason this skill is overpowered is because it now has the same duration of Major Expedition as every other source. There was a reason this skill had the shortest duration. Please read my rant on duration homogenization again because it that decision is going to get the only skill that makes true solo mag plar/dk/den builds work nerfed into the ground. 4 seconds should never have been made the baseline. Skill could be reduced to 3 seconds or have mitigation reduced to 50% IF it gets changed. Should be left untouched and other mobility should get buffed. Still locks regen and prevents player from actually doing damage. No different than blocking but you can't even cast skills.

Accelerate:
Neat-o idea. Offers little for solo as stamina has better options and does not actually allow mag to escape anything. Could compete with Mist Form if it reduced the cost of the next Roll Dodge. Sprint NEEDS to be coupled with roll dodge for effective open-world mobility. 3 second duration is really short. Should be 4 (equal to or greater than Mist).

Stamina:

Mobility pots: (no mag equivalent so will ignore niche specs)
Are still decent. Duration is meh. I'd rather use tri-pots on every single spec personally. This change hurt solo players the most. Solo player rant:

In return solo players were given the realization that zergs mobility was not nerfed at all. Smaller numbers should = greater mobility. That simply is not the case. Solo is still alive but it is a lot harder and niche for stam classes in solo (not zerg-surfing) open-world. Current meta is either build into aids tanky or build so much DPS you kill before you die. LoS cheese is the only thing solo players have left. Inb4 they nerf trees.

Haste (Bow passive):
Change isn't noticeable. There was no need to decrease the duration to 4 seconds. This should have stayed at 5 as it needs to be longer than mist but it is technically free so should not be longer than 6 (which is my personal sweet-spot for base line Major Expedition).

Quick Cloak:
Good skill. Hard to balance with new Major Evasion so while it feels expensive as a source of Major Expedition it's still a good skill. Base duration for mobility should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. Run this with BRP DW weapons as a defensive buff bar with 2h front bar. Your welcome.

Hurricane:
Stam Sorcs have their identity back, ish. This skill is fine in terms of mobility. Honorable mention of Dark Deal, as it required mobility to use. The nerf to Dark Deal has arguably made Hurricane too expensive for what it does. Skill needs a better cost ratio or a slight buff.

Gear:

Vicious Ophidian:
8 seconds is fine since something dies when you need it anyways. Still one of the strongest PvE stam sets.

Quick Serpent:
Outclassed by by marksman and combat acrobat. The conditional 8 seconds on kill is meh. Just a bad set in general. The duration didn't need to be changed as it was arguably the hardest condition to meet in PvP and I doubt adds in PvE care how fast players move.

Dreugh King Slayer:
Could have left duration or extended it even. Anyone actually running this set needs all the help they can get.

Skooma Smuggler:
I was upset that this set wasn't nerfed into the ground at first. Tested it out. You lose a lot to run this set. The 5th piece could benefit with a small bonus. Right now the 5 piece is nice but lack-lustre as it required infused potion jewelry to have viable uptime without sacrificing too much. Having built in Potion cooldown reduction could work and follows the set themes of speeding things up. Major Expedition is honestly not that strong on it's own, alluding back to Swift being the actual problem in conjunction with increased popularity of speed pots. JUST Major expedition is not worth a 5 pc.

Swift:
Trait was over-nerfed. I barely (I don't I'm just being polite) notice the trait now. If it also reduced cost of sprint might be worth.

Mundus:

The Steed:
Group play does not need this as they have Rapid spam. Solo benefits far more from other conventional Mundus Stones. PvE/farming builds could use it I suppose. Max Health bonuses are slightly higher than mag/stam. Health Recovery should follow the same rule. May be enough to make this Mundus worth the slot along with the extra mobility. Right now it is too huge of an opportunity cost.

TL;DR:
Base duration of Major Expedition skills should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. This is enough time to actually go offensive with the buff while not providing too much defensive benefits.

Falcon's Swiftness should have the longest duration of 7.5-8 seconds.

Mist should remain at 4 as a strong purely defensive option.

Acceleration should be increased to 4 for base duration. Channeled may need to be adjusted down to match Falcon's Swiftness.

Haste should fall in-between as it is technically free .

Speed pots aren't useless but aren't that great either.

Gear Sets:
Major Expedition <<<<<< actual 5 pc.

Swift:
"Over-Nerfed". Current value feels...fine? requires a secondary benefit to actually be useful.

The Steed:
Increase Health/Mag/Stam Recovery ratio bonuses to match Max Health/Mag/Stam and this Mundus should actually see use.


PLEASE have ZoS rethink homogenizing durations. It kills diversity and skill/class identity. It also makes the skills harder to balance as it removes an entire variable that they could use for balance (duration).

I don't agree with your assessment of mist form mostly because you forgot a few things that make mist balanced:
- you have to be vamp. Dawnbreaker/fire is a pain which requires mist/bats to balance out. 75% mitigation is necessary dropping to 50% would be a weaker form of block.
- can't heal in the mist channel!
- 75% mitigation/immunity to snare/cc is only gained while in the channel. Which turns off your mag regen and can't sprint.
- expensive skill! 3500 on a breton in light armor isn't exactly "spamable".
- no snare/cc immunity outside channel.
- 4 seconds is fine, but that should be the lowest duration for overloaded abilities. Therefore I agree all over major exp sources be increased to 2 seconds.

I wrote that late at night so I was a little less objective than I would have liked.

I personally would not like a change to Mist. However, in terms of mobility it simply can't be beat. This leads into my discontent to the homogenization of buff durations. Prior to Murkmire, Mist was definitely still THE mobility skill for magicka. Bird of Prey could compete to an extent because of the long duration. Admittedly, Boundless has always been more of a aesthetic skill than anything but it had the larger benefit of being third barred compared to Mist as it also granted a long defensive buff. But the point is that the longer durations on these 2 skills gave them their own niches separate from Mist to the point where running Boundless/Bird and Mist still had merit.

The duration nerfs killed that merit. Sorc still has Streak but a Magden now NEEDS Mist. Magplar and MagDK needing Mist is a different argument as they are meant to be less mobile. I did end that bit by alluding to the points you make, though your post is more comprehensive. Ultimately I would prefer for these 2 skills specifically to be buffed in terms of duration and to leave Mist as is. Beyond that I have no further comments before knowing what direction ZoS would like to head with the classes

Minno wrote: »

And there might be other ways to balance stealth/cloak:
- remove the dot immunity on the damage only so if they want to roll around in stealth they have to reposition to heal up.
- better designed GTAOEs so players can make bar-space decisions to get the tools they need to pull targets out of stealth.
- once out of stealth, should take more effort to get back into it (but gain a huge offensive boost for that first stealth attack).

The first 2 options require specific building to counter a specific class which is not okay imo. It forces players to run skills they may not want and even tho bleeds/DoTs are meta right now it does not mean they always will be. The 3rd option would just make Snipe more ridiculous and that is the most heavily forum defended and broken skill in this game. It does not need a buff.

Take off Major Defile and for the love of Aiur (won't pray to any divines until lag is fixed) fix Snipe desynch. And to clarify though L2R players will still rage, I want the skill balanced so remove Major Defile but add something else. However, the Defile must go. If sorcs could spam frags that applied Major Defile the class would be deleted the next day. But because Cloakblades use Snipe its perfectly balanced...

I'd liken the first 2 too MagSorc/MagBlade vs MagDKs who spam wings. It's very frustrating running into a wing spammer and having no way to deal with it simply because of your skill bar.

The only difference, and why I always disagree with a Wings nerf is because not every DK runs it and if they do they are making an actual sacrifice for it as since Wings are a secondary defensive tool similar to Streak, Mines, Shade etc.

Cloak on the other hand is the classes primary defensive tool. Majority of nightblades run it and they make less of a sacrifice to run it because the skill is so overloaded and it is their primary defence. The opportunity costs for Cloak is not balanced. A sorc will always run shields, templars have purify, and DKs always run Spiked Armor (Burning Heart passive) the same way the nightblades run cloak. Requiring that players specifically build to counter those defences is unfair to those players.

I've personally preferred diminishing returns on Cloak casts myself. A single Cloak cast is a non-issue. Spamming it is.

Aaaaand because of the fact that I'm a magsorc main and I just motioned to nerf both Cloak and Snipe, let me reiterate the fact that this is a balance discussion and not a nerf discussion. If a portion of power is being taken away from a class, even if it is over performing, a portion of that power should be redistributed-hence the term balance. So while Cloak may be nerfed, Soul Siphoner and Dark Vigor could be buffed/made more accessible to compensate. inb4 this turns into a nerf sorc thread

Minno wrote: »

swift should:
- mimic windrunner passive for nCP pvp. If swift got reduced from 9% down to 5% purple, they should let you increase health/mag regen by x percent. Something small but a nice extra theorycraft bonus and to help races without regen gain some bonus back. Or larger percent but only while sprinting so you have to be moving to gain the benefit.
- or reduce snares for the missing percent
- or give back the missing speed via SPRINT.

All solid ideas. I'd be happy with any. Swift is the most useless trait now imo. Protective borders on too strong imo.

Minno wrote: »

I like the steed change, but the mag/health/stam regen would have to be really small.

Current Max Stat bonuses are at a 1.1-1-1 ratio whereas recovery is at a 1-1-1 ratio. Changing Recovery ratios to match Max Stat bonus is a small boost.

Minno wrote: »

Acceleration is weird, in that it has an offensive bonus but it's speed is too low. Either give major sorcery or increase the speed to be 6 seconds with 6 seconds of sprint cost reduction.

3 seconds is definitely too low. 6 would be good. Major Sorcery isn't a bad idea actually. Major sorcery is a great idea actually.

Minno wrote: »

Falcon swiftness should be highest duration of all mobility sources (something like for the entire duration of the ability.)

Sorc armor buff to get additional defense or additional offense added to compensate for speed nerfs. return to 6 seconds to match other sources as well.

quick cloak should have its duration reduced to 4 seconds. it procs enchants passively.

Agreed on all accounts.

Forgot that quick cloak also proc'd enchants passively. Skill kind of sounds OP after remembering that. Does it still proc off bar tho?

Sleep724

Unpopular opinion but I like the speed nerf. I can actually hit opponents again and can run tri pots without having to invest into speed. But it’s the snares in so many abilities that’s the real problem IMO.

frostz417

Speed nerf shows how incompetent and brainless zos combat team really is. All that needs to be said about it. Zos combat team has the brain capacity of a jelly fish. I don’t really do open world anymore because not only is it atrociously laggy, but everyone now spams roots and snares, totally love trying to do solo/small scale when people just spam roots and snares. Yea open world is dog crap. I only do it if I’m in a group of 4-8 now.
Only good form of PvP now lies in Bg’s Although the MMR system and the large amount of cheese makes it difficult. But I’ve learned to adapt to the cheese

Zekka

Swift and speed pots nerfs were spot on, Forward Momentum nerf was too harsh, major expedition providing skills nerfs were completely uncalled for.
The problem with major expedition was 100% uptime with speed pots and only that.

Emma_Overload

Jewelry was overnerfed. Should be 7% or 8% instead of 6%.

FM and speed pot nerfs are fine.

Chilly-McFreeze

FM, speed pots and mE sources were overnerfed.

Swift nerfs are fine.

Someone tag me when they decide to move away from the snare meta. I'm a bite tired of my rotation being 50% of the time spamming expedition or snare removal just to get sacked by rapid spamming zergs again - on a swift & steed using stam sorc.

eso_nya

i adjusted for pve:
melee specs run nights silence+night terror and try to avoid mob snares by not engaging combat. ranged specs try to oneshot everything before it gets the chance to apply a snare.

vo feels pointless. warden wings aswell.

generelly feels very sluggish. "oh no, the mob fell on my foot when dying, now im rootet for 10 seconds."

Crixus8000

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

FM, speed pots and mE sources were overnerfed.

Swift nerfs are fine.

Someone tag me when they decide to move away from the snare meta. I'm a bite tired of my rotation being 50% of the time spamming expedition or snare removal just to get sacked by rapid spamming zergs again - on a swift & steed using stam sorc.

Couldn't agree more.

It's so annoying when I chose an orc, have hurricane up and the steed mundus yet can't outrun anyone, even magicka chars. Getting completely locked down every 4 seconds is such a pathetic idea from a balance point. I'm a stamina sorc. My playstyle is meant to be based on speed yet when I play solo, most of my fights is just me standing still, pressing forward untill I'm dead.

When outnumbered your taking a lot of damage so you will need to keep buffs and heals going while obviously trying to apply counter pressure and get kills, having around 3 seconds to do this is not enough.

Minno

IAVITNI wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

IAVITNI wrote: »

I've adapted. There are ways to get speed. (solo/small-scale PvP focused)

I have a form of mobility on all my builds (all classes but magblade), although for magicka it's mist for 3/5 classes. Sprint only works as a form of open world mobility because stam classes can couple it with dodge roll. Magicka sprinters (accelerate) sacrifice too much for sprint to be a consistently viable option.

Magicka:

Cloak:
Over-performing. Period. Technically it isn't part of this discussion but deserves an honourable mention because it achieves many of the same goals of mobility, but at a far better cost-benefit ratio.

Streak:
Remove the momentum freeze and clunkiness before and after cast. Skill is fine. Arguably needs a cost decrease since sorcs are hurting stat-wise. But that would depend on overall direction of the class.

Boundless Storm:
Is now contesting Streak for mobility. 4 seconds of Major Expedition for ~4k just isn't worth it. This skill is now only used so you don't have to slot Chudan and can go with Blood Spawn.

Little Sorc Rant (as it is a class built around mobility)

It only benefits sorcs because current meta is to build tanky. So while sorc is still technically viable, it feels more like building a DK than a sorc. Mobility and zoning are supposed to be a sorcs defence. This just isn't the case. I have gripes with current sorc balance yet I never thought it would die in Murkmire but thats for a different thread. I will say Streak should have its clunkiness "unnerfed". The class has to over invest into both mitigation and sustain now. Greater access leading to reliance on mobility, which the class kit is geared towards, would help alleviate some requirement for mitigation and spread out build resources.

Falcon's Swiftness:
Should have the longest Major Expedition duration. Bird of Prey is debatable but right now its just a buff slot. It really hurt magden combat mobility, which also makes it harder to land Scorch. Streamlining duration was a poor choice.

Why not stream line every Major Buff? Make all Major Ward and Major Resolve 3 second buffs to match nightblades. Simply a horrible decision that was done because the dev team did not want to spend time actually balancing the durations.
As a magsorc main, the shield cast times did not make me want to quite the game. But the homogenization of Major Expedition durations have made me play far less. To me, its an admittance of incompetence and a sign that the game is in poor hands. I won't deny each patch does improve the game overall, but they are all marred by lazy decisions such as this.

Mist Form:
This skill is arguably overpowered. I use this on 3 classes and the difference in survivability is huge. 4 seconds is nigh invincibility. That said, only reason this skill is overpowered is because it now has the same duration of Major Expedition as every other source. There was a reason this skill had the shortest duration. Please read my rant on duration homogenization again because it that decision is going to get the only skill that makes true solo mag plar/dk/den builds work nerfed into the ground. 4 seconds should never have been made the baseline. Skill could be reduced to 3 seconds or have mitigation reduced to 50% IF it gets changed. Should be left untouched and other mobility should get buffed. Still locks regen and prevents player from actually doing damage. No different than blocking but you can't even cast skills.

Accelerate:
Neat-o idea. Offers little for solo as stamina has better options and does not actually allow mag to escape anything. Could compete with Mist Form if it reduced the cost of the next Roll Dodge. Sprint NEEDS to be coupled with roll dodge for effective open-world mobility. 3 second duration is really short. Should be 4 (equal to or greater than Mist).

Stamina:

Mobility pots: (no mag equivalent so will ignore niche specs)
Are still decent. Duration is meh. I'd rather use tri-pots on every single spec personally. This change hurt solo players the most. Solo player rant:

In return solo players were given the realization that zergs mobility was not nerfed at all. Smaller numbers should = greater mobility. That simply is not the case. Solo is still alive but it is a lot harder and niche for stam classes in solo (not zerg-surfing) open-world. Current meta is either build into aids tanky or build so much DPS you kill before you die. LoS cheese is the only thing solo players have left. Inb4 they nerf trees.

Haste (Bow passive):
Change isn't noticeable. There was no need to decrease the duration to 4 seconds. This should have stayed at 5 as it needs to be longer than mist but it is technically free so should not be longer than 6 (which is my personal sweet-spot for base line Major Expedition).

Quick Cloak:
Good skill. Hard to balance with new Major Evasion so while it feels expensive as a source of Major Expedition it's still a good skill. Base duration for mobility should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. Run this with BRP DW weapons as a defensive buff bar with 2h front bar. Your welcome.

Hurricane:
Stam Sorcs have their identity back, ish. This skill is fine in terms of mobility. Honorable mention of Dark Deal, as it required mobility to use. The nerf to Dark Deal has arguably made Hurricane too expensive for what it does. Skill needs a better cost ratio or a slight buff.

Gear:

Vicious Ophidian:
8 seconds is fine since something dies when you need it anyways. Still one of the strongest PvE stam sets.

Quick Serpent:
Outclassed by by marksman and combat acrobat. The conditional 8 seconds on kill is meh. Just a bad set in general. The duration didn't need to be changed as it was arguably the hardest condition to meet in PvP and I doubt adds in PvE care how fast players move.

Dreugh King Slayer:
Could have left duration or extended it even. Anyone actually running this set needs all the help they can get.

Skooma Smuggler:
I was upset that this set wasn't nerfed into the ground at first. Tested it out. You lose a lot to run this set. The 5th piece could benefit with a small bonus. Right now the 5 piece is nice but lack-lustre as it required infused potion jewelry to have viable uptime without sacrificing too much. Having built in Potion cooldown reduction could work and follows the set themes of speeding things up. Major Expedition is honestly not that strong on it's own, alluding back to Swift being the actual problem in conjunction with increased popularity of speed pots. JUST Major expedition is not worth a 5 pc.

Swift:
Trait was over-nerfed. I barely (I don't I'm just being polite) notice the trait now. If it also reduced cost of sprint might be worth.

Mundus:

The Steed:
Group play does not need this as they have Rapid spam. Solo benefits far more from other conventional Mundus Stones. PvE/farming builds could use it I suppose. Max Health bonuses are slightly higher than mag/stam. Health Recovery should follow the same rule. May be enough to make this Mundus worth the slot along with the extra mobility. Right now it is too huge of an opportunity cost.

TL;DR:
Base duration of Major Expedition skills should be 6 seconds, similar to sorc shields. This is enough time to actually go offensive with the buff while not providing too much defensive benefits.

Falcon's Swiftness should have the longest duration of 7.5-8 seconds.

Mist should remain at 4 as a strong purely defensive option.

Acceleration should be increased to 4 for base duration. Channeled may need to be adjusted down to match Falcon's Swiftness.

Haste should fall in-between as it is technically free .

Speed pots aren't useless but aren't that great either.

Gear Sets:
Major Expedition <<<<<< actual 5 pc.

Swift:
"Over-Nerfed". Current value feels...fine? requires a secondary benefit to actually be useful.

The Steed:
Increase Health/Mag/Stam Recovery ratio bonuses to match Max Health/Mag/Stam and this Mundus should actually see use.


PLEASE have ZoS rethink homogenizing durations. It kills diversity and skill/class identity. It also makes the skills harder to balance as it removes an entire variable that they could use for balance (duration).

I don't agree with your assessment of mist form mostly because you forgot a few things that make mist balanced:
- you have to be vamp. Dawnbreaker/fire is a pain which requires mist/bats to balance out. 75% mitigation is necessary dropping to 50% would be a weaker form of block.
- can't heal in the mist channel!
- 75% mitigation/immunity to snare/cc is only gained while in the channel. Which turns off your mag regen and can't sprint.
- expensive skill! 3500 on a breton in light armor isn't exactly "spamable".
- no snare/cc immunity outside channel.
- 4 seconds is fine, but that should be the lowest duration for overloaded abilities. Therefore I agree all over major exp sources be increased to 2 seconds.

I wrote that late at night so I was a little less objective than I would have liked.

I personally would not like a change to Mist. However, in terms of mobility it simply can't be beat. This leads into my discontent to the homogenization of buff durations. Prior to Murkmire, Mist was definitely still THE mobility skill for magicka. Bird of Prey could compete to an extent because of the long duration. Admittedly, Boundless has always been more of a aesthetic skill than anything but it had the larger benefit of being third barred compared to Mist as it also granted a long defensive buff. But the point is that the longer durations on these 2 skills gave them their own niches separate from Mist to the point where running Boundless/Bird and Mist still had merit.

The duration nerfs killed that merit. Sorc still has Streak but a Magden now NEEDS Mist. Magplar and MagDK needing Mist is a different argument as they are meant to be less mobile. I did end that bit by alluding to the points you make, though your post is more comprehensive. Ultimately I would prefer for these 2 skills specifically to be buffed in terms of duration and to leave Mist as is. Beyond that I have no further comments before knowing what direction ZoS would like to head with the classes

Minno wrote: »

And there might be other ways to balance stealth/cloak:
- remove the dot immunity on the damage only so if they want to roll around in stealth they have to reposition to heal up.
- better designed GTAOEs so players can make bar-space decisions to get the tools they need to pull targets out of stealth.
- once out of stealth, should take more effort to get back into it (but gain a huge offensive boost for that first stealth attack).

The first 2 options require specific building to counter a specific class which is not okay imo. It forces players to run skills they may not want and even tho bleeds/DoTs are meta right now it does not mean they always will be. The 3rd option would just make Snipe more ridiculous and that is the most heavily forum defended and broken skill in this game. It does not need a buff.

Take off Major Defile and for the love of Aiur (won't pray to any divines until lag is fixed) fix Snipe desynch. And to clarify though L2R players will still rage, I want the skill balanced so remove Major Defile but add something else. However, the Defile must go. If sorcs could spam frags that applied Major Defile the class would be deleted the next day. But because Cloakblades use Snipe its perfectly balanced...

I'd liken the first 2 too MagSorc/MagBlade vs MagDKs who spam wings. It's very frustrating running into a wing spammer and having no way to deal with it simply because of your skill bar.

The only difference, and why I always disagree with a Wings nerf is because not every DK runs it and if they do they are making an actual sacrifice for it as since Wings are a secondary defensive tool similar to Streak, Mines, Shade etc.

Cloak on the other hand is the classes primary defensive tool. Majority of nightblades run it and they make less of a sacrifice to run it because the skill is so overloaded and it is their primary defence. The opportunity costs for Cloak is not balanced. A sorc will always run shields, templars have purify, and DKs always run Spiked Armor (Burning Heart passive) the same way the nightblades run cloak. Requiring that players specifically build to counter those defences is unfair to those players.

I've personally preferred diminishing returns on Cloak casts myself. A single Cloak cast is a non-issue. Spamming it is.

Aaaaand because of the fact that I'm a magsorc main and I just motioned to nerf both Cloak and Snipe, let me reiterate the fact that this is a balance discussion and not a nerf discussion. If a portion of power is being taken away from a class, even if it is over performing, a portion of that power should be redistributed-hence the term balance. So while Cloak may be nerfed, Soul Siphoner and Dark Vigor could be buffed/made more accessible to compensate. inb4 this turns into a nerf sorc thread

Minno wrote: »

swift should:
- mimic windrunner passive for nCP pvp. If swift got reduced from 9% down to 5% purple, they should let you increase health/mag regen by x percent. Something small but a nice extra theorycraft bonus and to help races without regen gain some bonus back. Or larger percent but only while sprinting so you have to be moving to gain the benefit.
- or reduce snares for the missing percent
- or give back the missing speed via SPRINT.

All solid ideas. I'd be happy with any. Swift is the most useless trait now imo. Protective borders on too strong imo.

Minno wrote: »

I like the steed change, but the mag/health/stam regen would have to be really small.

Current Max Stat bonuses are at a 1.1-1-1 ratio whereas recovery is at a 1-1-1 ratio. Changing Recovery ratios to match Max Stat bonus is a small boost.

Minno wrote: »

Acceleration is weird, in that it has an offensive bonus but it's speed is too low. Either give major sorcery or increase the speed to be 6 seconds with 6 seconds of sprint cost reduction.

3 seconds is definitely too low. 6 would be good. Major Sorcery isn't a bad idea actually. Major sorcery is a great idea actually.

Minno wrote: »

Falcon swiftness should be highest duration of all mobility sources (something like for the entire duration of the ability.)

Sorc armor buff to get additional defense or additional offense added to compensate for speed nerfs. return to 6 seconds to match other sources as well.

quick cloak should have its duration reduced to 4 seconds. it procs enchants passively.

Agreed on all accounts.

Forgot that quick cloak also proc'd enchants passively. Skill kind of sounds OP after remembering that. Does it still proc off bar tho?

Yea mist has alot going for it, but mobility and defense is overshadowed by heavy dawnbreakers and fire dmg/vamp dmg enchants. Plus the regen locks you out and you can't heal so you have to be either proactive with it or be selective when to use it defensively. The only change I would make is it should have it's duration the lowest out of all speed along with quick cloak (4 seconds) but that change is already in the skill haha.

quick cloak procs things off bar, if im not mistaken, because its coded as an AOE direct damage ability similar to prox det. So each tick, procs an enchant.

im wary about cost increases on any defensive spell. Streak shouldnt have it since you don't have things helping to make it really cheap without downsides (unlike dodge roll with well fitted/medium armor or block with sturdy). Otherwise purge would need it, wings, warden absorb to be consistent, and we don't want zos to be consistent lol.

snipe is fine, it's just the target goes back into stealth instantly so it's hard to find them and they pop you with another snipe inside your dodge roll cost increase punishment. That is why snipe spam is so effective.