Mag Sorc DPS increase

thorwyn

I'm a relatively new player, been playing since August. My main char is a Magicka Sorcerer, currently at CP 400ish. For some reason, I seem to be unable to increase my dps. I'm stuck around the 16k mark. My rotation might not be perfect, but it's at least decent (depending on movement, interrupts etc.). I'm running a full set of BSW and Julianos along with the usual Ilambris monster set. All sets are purple except for the staves, which are golden. Champion point wise, I'm following Alcast's recommendation. Still... no feeling of improvement.
I understand that the high end dps marks of 50-60k are perfect condition set ups and I'm not even trying to reach them. But then, this 15-16k seems to be a soft cap for me.
Any recommendations on how to improve this? Am I missing something?

Beardimus

Gear etc sounds somewhat there so what's the rotation?

Are you weaving?

thorwyn

Yes, I am weaving. I still need to get used to the new Elemental Weapon (instead of Force Pulse) a bit, but even before the change, dps was still the same.

thorwyn

One thing that came to my mind is the use of the ultimate. The guides usually say "use it whenever it's ready", which makes sense when doing a parse on a target dummy. During a trial or dungeon however, I'm always reluctant to drop it, because I always think there might be a better time to use it. That certainly decreases my overall dps, but I don't think that's really "it".

Parrot1986

It’s really difficult to tell you where your going wrong without seeing it. If you can do a video on a dummy it’d make it much easier to show what’s good and what needs improving.

Only thing I’d say on gear is BSW and illambris don’t really synergize as BSW needs lots of fire damage and illambris needs shock and fire to be effective. It’s probably better to run Skoria if staying a range. Personally I think Mother’s Sorrow and Julianos would be better but it’s probably marginal.

I know you said rotation is ok but honestly It’s going to come down to rotation more than anything. What skills are you using in full and what does a rotation look like I.e
LA - Blockade- LA - Liquid Lightning etc??

Are you using 2 fire staves?

Mag Sorcs can comfortably hit 30k and 40k+ is achievable too so that gap doesn’t come from gear differences and more rotation.

Worth noting missing 400CP will have an impact but shouldn’t stop you hitting 25-30k.

Also assuming you don’t have a VMA staff that will have an impact on DPS but again not 10+k

Couple things to check if you are on PC using combat metrics.

- what is your BSW uptime? Should be aiming for this to be 56-60% otherwise it’s not really helping you.
- Where is light attack damage in your damage sheet? On a dummy it should be your highest/2nd highest damage contributor if you use dual fire staves.

thorwyn

I know you said rotation is ok but honestly It’s going to come down to rotation more than anything. What skills are you using in full and what does a rotation look like I.e
LA - Blockade- LA - Liquid Lightning etc??

My usual skill bar set up is:
Bar 1
Liquid Lightning, Crystal Fragments, Elemental Weapon, Inner Light, Bound Aegis - Elemental Rage

Bar 2
Elemental Blockade, Haunting Curse, Power Surge, Channeled Acceleration, Bound Aegis - Greater Storm Atronach

Rotation starts on bar 2
LA > EB > LA > HC > WS
LA > LL > LA > EW (5 times) > WS

Swap CF for LL whenever it procs, reapply HC every 2nd rota.

Are you using 2 fire staves?

Yes, 2 Julianos fire staves

- what is your BSW uptime? Should be aiming for this to be 56-60% otherwise it’s not really helping you.
- Where is light attack damage in your damage sheet? On a dummy it should be your highest/2nd highest damage contributor if you use dual fire staves.

I will check that later today. Thank you for your input so far!

vesselwiththepestle

Are you talking about DPS in dungeons and trials or on dummy parses? You can't compare real fights, depending on movement, boss stages etc. 15k DPS can be really worse or really good.

I don't play my magsorc very often, I am sitting at 35k DPS, so keep that in mind with my tips, there will be better ones. I am mostly a stam dps player and I never got the "feel" for a magicka rotation, be it on magsorc or magblade. (I am a bit better with magblade.)

The shorter the fight, the greater the impact of your ultimate. In a boss fight you should always drop your ultimate - there won't be a better use. Your job is to do max dps. In dungeons like Vaults of Madness - with lots of Daedra or undead trash mobs - your ultimate will be ready very often and very fast because of fighter guild passive Banish the Wicked. If you don't have learned it yet, do it now.

However, using a ultimate won't make a difference between 15k and 45k+ except maybe in very short trash fight with many mobs .

Do you have increase magical harm enchantments on jewelry? Do you have divine trait on armor and a dps increasing Mundus like Lover or Thief? Do you have spell damage and spell crit buffs on you, for example from surge, inner light or spell potions?

You should ask a friend in-game to have a look at your weaving. Watch some videos explaining weaving if you haven't already. Some players are doning it the wrong way. Even with Elemental Weapon: Hit first the light attack and instantly after the LA hit the skill button. With elemental weapon you can try it without being in a combat. Be sure you don't hit the next light attack too early. You have to get a feel for the rhythm. You can start practicing just with elemental weapon, then you can begin using other skills until you are doing it with the full rotation. Practice full rotation on target dummy.

If you are heaving sustain issues, you might consider changing your rotation or chainging a dps set to a sustain set. With "low" CP your sustain will be worse than at max CP and it might be possible that you have to adapt to that fact.

Parrot1986

That rotation is fine but it may still come down to execution, if your DPS on a Dummy is still about 15k then either your missing light attacks or your dots are dropping off before you complete and you lose a lot of damage that way too or maybe a combination of both.

On a dummy make sure to use elemental drain either self applied or get someone to do it as that is a good damage boost and helps sustain massively.

On your question I’m ultimates, there’s a few trials where bosses move or become immune at points i.e Cloudeest and Asylum so you don’t want to dump them as this happens for obvious reasons but other than that you should be better using them as they come up. Holding onto them for too long will definitely hurt damage.

Protossyder

Do you have all passives needed?
- class
- light armor(first 3 passives of medium and heavy)
- destruction staff
- undaunted
- psijic
- mages guild
- racial
- vampire
- alchemy (medicinal use)

Are you using pots (spellpower pots) and bufffood (witchmother's potent brew)?

Are you using atleast elemental drain for your tests? an effective dps build is not made to sustain without any "help" since you should be provided with ele drain and synergies (shards/bubbles) in trials and dungeons (unless you run with 3 dds, then you will have less synergies)

Other than that: your gear, cp are factors too, but most likely you have to work on your rotation. Do you track your dots? most importantly blockade and liquid lightning.

Also, pls don't listen to this "dummy tests are not real fights" ***. dummy tests are the best way to compare your dps to other classes/setups and players and improve your rotation, because they are static. The better you know your rotation, the better you will be able to execute it during bossfights while playing mechanics without thinking.

Ender1310

Protossyder wrote: »

Do you have all passives needed?
- class
- light armor(first 3 passives of medium and heavy)
- destruction staff
- undaunted
- psijic
- mages guild
- racial
- vampire
- alchemy (medicinal use)

Are you using pots (spellpower pots) and bufffood (witchmother's potent brew)?

Are you using atleast elemental drain for your tests? an effective dps build is not made to sustain without any "help" since you should be provided with ele drain and synergies (shards/bubbles) in trials and dungeons (unless you run with 3 dds, then you will have less synergies)

Other than that: your gear, cp are factors too, but most likely you have to work on your rotation. Do you track your dots? most importantly blockade and liquid lightning.

Also, pls don't listen to this "dummy tests are not real fights" ***. dummy tests are the best way to compare your dps to other classes/setups and players and improve your rotation, because they are static. The better you know your rotation, the better you will be able to execute it during bossfights while playing mechanics without thinking.

Target dummies are where you test your dps. Everyone has the same environment on a target dummy so you can compare. I understand what the poster was saying however. Some boss fights. Some. 15K might not be that bad. But op is saying that 15K is soft cap on EVERYTHING. Sounds odd with your set up. Take the sustain off your jewelry if you have. Add 175 Spell damage glyphs. Get the optimal enchants spell damage or fire glyphs as needed. Those changes if not made should get you to the 20k crest.

Protossyder

Ender1310 wrote: »

Protossyder wrote: »

Do you have all passives needed?
- class
- light armor(first 3 passives of medium and heavy)
- destruction staff
- undaunted
- psijic
- mages guild
- racial
- vampire
- alchemy (medicinal use)

Are you using pots (spellpower pots) and bufffood (witchmother's potent brew)?

Are you using atleast elemental drain for your tests? an effective dps build is not made to sustain without any "help" since you should be provided with ele drain and synergies (shards/bubbles) in trials and dungeons (unless you run with 3 dds, then you will have less synergies)

Other than that: your gear, cp are factors too, but most likely you have to work on your rotation. Do you track your dots? most importantly blockade and liquid lightning.

Also, pls don't listen to this "dummy tests are not real fights" ***. dummy tests are the best way to compare your dps to other classes/setups and players and improve your rotation, because they are static. The better you know your rotation, the better you will be able to execute it during bossfights while playing mechanics without thinking.

Target dummies are where you test your dps. Everyone has the same environment on a target dummy so you can compare. I understand what the poster was saying however. Some boss fights. Some. 15K might not be that bad. But op is saying that 15K is soft cap on EVERYTHING. Sounds odd with your set up. Take the sustain off your jewelry if you have. Add 175 Spell damage glyphs. Get the optimal enchants spell damage or fire glyphs as needed. Those changes if not made should get you to the 20k crest.

Are you talking to me? ^^'

Oreyn_Bearclaw

thorwyn wrote: »

I'm a relatively new player, been playing since August. My main char is a Magicka Sorcerer, currently at CP 400ish. For some reason, I seem to be unable to increase my dps. I'm stuck around the 16k mark. My rotation might not be perfect, but it's at least decent (depending on movement, interrupts etc.). I'm running a full set of BSW and Julianos along with the usual Ilambris monster set. All sets are purple except for the staves, which are golden. Champion point wise, I'm following Alcast's recommendation. Still... no feeling of improvement.
I understand that the high end dps marks of 50-60k are perfect condition set ups and I'm not even trying to reach them. But then, this 15-16k seems to be a soft cap for me.
Any recommendations on how to improve this? Am I missing something?

If the bold is true, you have a rotation issue, period. CP and min.maxing your gear will certainly help, but they arent 35k worth of DPS.

Best thing is to post a vid or at least a combat metrics parse if possible. Two things to spot check on a sorc are number of light attacks per second and number of seconds between frag procs. You should be north of .9 LAs/Sec, and somewhere around 1 frag proc every 6 seconds or so. There is some RNG component to the later, but its still a decent bench mark.

Mintaka5

This is the nature of magsorc. Although other players have yet to show me a 30K dps parse, I still do not believe this class can have sustained DPS over 20K. Other magicka classes yes, but not sorc. Most of the high hitting damage stems from bursts, with correct order and rotation of skills. If you don't get this exact rotation down, in combination with a specific pairing of sets, your sustained DPS will be marginal at best.

Magsorc is the most difficult class to master for damage dealt.

Kikke

It's all down to the rotation, and the reluctant use of ultimates that is your issue.
And do you use proper potions? Essence of Spell power?

First; Start a parse with destro ult, into liquid lightning (last longer than blockade), don't do a LA before Liquid as that will start the DPS meter.

So Ult - Liquid - barswap - la/blockade - la/curse - barswap - la/ele wep. Use frags as replacement for ele wep if proc.

For the best usage of frag procs use them when you barswap for curse (if you use dynamic rotation) or as a pure replacement for a la/ele wep weave (if you use static rotation)

I personally use a absorb magicka enchant on my backbar and a lightning enchant on front bar because of sorc passives increasing lightning dmg.

At the moment I can managed 60k+ on centurion dummy and 48k~ on 6mill dummy with Ilambris/Perf Siroria / Willpower Jewelry (gold) / Perf Asylum fire and a vma fire. This is my support build for my team using crushing shock as a spammable, and I know ele wep does more dmg xD So getting that to 70k+ is rather easy (in a proper group setting ofc)

Edit:
- Dungeons DPS: Stuff dies to fast for a sorc to get any DPS at all..... True story xD
- Trial DPS: Depending on fights. Craglorn Trials + MoL = 50-60k, HoF = Extremely depending on fights! Mini-trials = 20k-40k xD

Edit 2: Sorc is extremely gear depended if you haven't figured out yet xP

Krayl

You might think your rotation is 'good enough' but it's probably not. This is in no way an insult. People who pull high dps parses off dummies play the same character most of the time and spend hours and tons of pots on the targeting dummy perfecting their rotation. They are running skills they wouldn't normally run in trials to mimic the bonuses they might get from a team.

Take a look at your skill bar and if there is anything you can swap out that is not benefiting like shields. Ele drain, skills that increase your max magicka, etc. . . max out mage's guild and put that comet on one bar just for the passives. This then also makes your rotation less natural because you need to fit them in, but to get your best numbers you'll need to to make them work.

Remember that 10.46 magicka = 1 point of spell power.

From what you've described I think that your shortfall is likely in your rotation and lack of maximizing ultimates, potions, and skills on your conducive to maxing out your dps as a solo tester.

Personally haven't been able to break 30K yet on my magsorc with decent gear, though i can get 35K+ on my mag DK/NB/Templar. Part of this is by design; sorcs are more survivable (build depending obviously) and are designed more for aoe and splash damage rather than single target.

Try different mundus stones on your tests as well. You may find one works better than another.

You could also try running rearming trap instead of channeled acceleration for testing purposes. It's an instant cast so may be easier to get into rhythm with and also won't use up your primary resource. You just need to make sure you're close to the dummy.

You could also try out xynode's easy sorc build but it would require some gear tweaks; the rotation is very simple, with no concern for sustain because your'e using heavies. It's easy sorc for a reason, so you could use it to get your numbers up, then work on your rotation with other builds to try to really maximize yoru preferred build.

adeptusminor

Mintaka5 wrote: »

This is the nature of magsorc. Although other players have yet to show me a 30K dps parse, I still do not believe this class can have sustained DPS over 20K. Other magicka classes yes, but not sorc. Most of the high hitting damage stems from bursts, with correct order and rotation of skills. If you don't get this exact rotation down, in combination with a specific pairing of sets, your sustained DPS will be marginal at best.

Magsorc is the most difficult class to master for damage dealt.

Uhhh, what, really?





Here's a couple, all self-buffed

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Mintaka5 wrote: »

This is the nature of magsorc. Although other players have yet to show me a 30K dps parse, I still do not believe this class can have sustained DPS over 20K. Other magicka classes yes, but not sorc. Most of the high hitting damage stems from bursts, with correct order and rotation of skills. If you don't get this exact rotation down, in combination with a specific pairing of sets, your sustained DPS will be marginal at best.

Magsorc is the most difficult class to master for damage dealt.

Umm.... What? So many things wrong with that post.

Mag sorcs (non pet) can easily pull 30k DPS. Dont confuse how they play in PVP with what they can do in PVE. Mag sorc, Mag NB, and Mag Templar are all pretty close once you standardize what buffs they get. All can pull 50K+ single target. In terms of difficulty, NB is the hardest, Mag sorc is in second, and templar is easiest by a significant margin IMO. The only thing that really keeps mag sorcs from competing for the top ranged spot in a raid is sustain issues.

If you want to play with a pet, you might not get invited to the best raids, but 40k self buffed is trivial with a heavy attack pet build. Sustain is not even remotely an issue, and its one of the easiest rotations in the game.

FrancisCrawford

Protossyder wrote: »

- light armor(first 3 passives of medium and heavy)

Before asking that we should ask what his Undaunted rank is.

FrancisCrawford

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

40k self buffed is trivial with a heavy attack pet build.

It's definitely not trivial. I almost never parse over 20K. Now, I'm typically messing around and not wholly optimizing -- cheap pots, Power Surge to make up for the cheap pots, whatever Mundus stone I have at the moment, whatever jewelry enchants first come to hand, etc., etc. And no trials or VMA gear whatsoever. Still, that all isn't enough to suddenly turn me into a 30K parser, and even if it were, it wouldn't be trivial. So 40K is DEFINITELY not trivial.

kojou

thorwyn wrote: »

I'm a relatively new player, been playing since August. My main char is a Magicka Sorcerer, currently at CP 400ish. For some reason, I seem to be unable to increase my dps. I'm stuck around the 16k mark. My rotation might not be perfect, but it's at least decent (depending on movement, interrupts etc.). I'm running a full set of BSW and Julianos along with the usual Ilambris monster set. All sets are purple except for the staves, which are golden. Champion point wise, I'm following Alcast's recommendation. Still... no feeling of improvement.
I understand that the high end dps marks of 50-60k are perfect condition set ups and I'm not even trying to reach them. But then, this 15-16k seems to be a soft cap for me.
Any recommendations on how to improve this? Am I missing something?

I have been helping new guild members improve their DPS for a while now and usually it comes down to 2 things. Missing light attacks and letting buffs and DoTs drop off. Gear and CP optimization can make a difference if they are really off, but getting the rotation correct is far more important.

If you are on PC get Combat Metrics and Action Duration Reminder.

Use combat metrics to see what buffs and DoTs you are not reapplying fast enough and divide light attacks by the number of seconds you are in combat. The more light attacks you weave between skills the higher your DPS will be. Getting light attacks in is more about the correct rhythm than speed. When you start take it slowly and make sure you get them in, then speed up as you build the muscle memory.

If you need to heavy attack do so when all of your buffs and DoTs are up and before you run out of magicka. You don't want to lose a DoT because you can't cast it due to no resources. I usually throw them in when I get to about a 3rd of my pool left.

Action Duration Reminder will tell you when a buff or DoT is about to end so you can refresh it. Always refresh your highest damage DoTs first.

I also recommend practice on the PTS server if possible. Most gear combinations are available and potions are "free", so you can spend as much time as you need to hone your skills without burning expensive potions.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

40k self buffed is trivial with a heavy attack pet build.

It's definitely not trivial. I almost never parse over 20K. Now, I'm typically messing around and not wholly optimizing -- cheap pots, Power Surge to make up for the cheap pots, whatever Mundus stone I have at the moment, whatever jewelry enchants first come to hand, etc., etc. And no trials or VMA gear whatsoever. Still, that all isn't enough to suddenly turn me into a 30K parser, and even if it were, it wouldn't be trivial. So 40K is DEFINITELY not trivial.

You just listed like 4 things wrong with your setups that are very simple fixes. Pots, Mundus, enchants, decent gear, are just not that hard to get in this game.

Trivial is of course a relative term, but a pet sorc is probably the easiest way in the game to break 40k. Now of course you need close to a min-maxed spec, but for pet sorc, that gear just isnt that hard to get. Does it really take that much effort to buy some necro gear or make some potions? That is the easiest part when it comes to damage. Honestly the hardest thing about a Pet sorc build is a VMA staff. That content is 3 years old at this point, and a pet sorc build is about the easiest way to clear it. And even without a VMA staff, 40k is perfectly achievable.

Everyone loves to point at gear and CP when it comes to DPS, but the reality is that damage in this game comes down to rotation at the end of the day. Even in a non optimal spec, 20k on a pet sorc build shows some serious flaws in your rotation. A heavy attack pet sorc is the easiest rotation you will find in this game. Something like magplar or a few of the stam classes with circular rotations are perhaps close, but they generally require a better weave and AC than a HA build.

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Vahrokh

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

codestripper

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

The parse from above (thanks @adeptusminor) was achieved with the following rotation:
Liquid Lightning > light attack > Elemental Blockade > swap > heavy attack > Daedric Prey > heavy attack > Volitile Familiar > swap > repeat.

The highest I've gotten on this self-buffed so far has been about 45.6k. And also the build I use in all content, even vMA. Does not require any skills to be changed around. This is also a 2 pet build, I use the twilight matriarch morph.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

codestripper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

The parse from above (thanks @adeptusminor) was achieved with the following rotation:
Liquid Lightning > light attack > Elemental Blockade > swap > heavy attack > Daedric Prey > heavy attack > Volitile Familiar > swap > repeat.

The highest I've gotten on this self-buffed so far has been about 45.6k. And also the build I use in all content, even vMA. Does not require any skills to be changed around. This is also a 2 pet build, I use the twilight matriarch morph.

Why is prey in front of familiar? They should be the other way around. You are losing at lease one buffed tick of your familiar.

If you put familiar in front of prey, both with heavy attacks, you buff ticks 3, 4 and 5. If you put prey in front of familiar, I think you only buff ticks 1 and 2 consistently. Been a long time, but I think this was tested a while back.

WrathOfInnos

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

The parse from above (thanks @adeptusminor) was achieved with the following rotation:
Liquid Lightning > light attack > Elemental Blockade > swap > heavy attack > Daedric Prey > heavy attack > Volitile Familiar > swap > repeat.

The highest I've gotten on this self-buffed so far has been about 45.6k. And also the build I use in all content, even vMA. Does not require any skills to be changed around. This is also a 2 pet build, I use the twilight matriarch morph.

Why is prey in front of familiar? They should be the other way around. You are losing at lease one buffed tick of your familiar.

If you put familiar in front of prey, both with heavy attacks, you buff ticks 3, 4 and 5. If you put prey in front of familiar, I think you only buff ticks 1 and 2 consistently. Been a long time, but I think this was tested a while back.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw It’s about buffing the final tick of the previous rotation’s familiar and the first tick of the next rotation’s. You’ll lose a little damage in a very short fight, but gain in a longer fight.

Vildebill

Hmm interesting regarding the rotation I use a semi-dynamic rotation got get maximum daedric prey uptime, and I'm parsing over 40k with this:
LA - LL - LA - Blockade - bar swap - LA - Familiar - LA - Prey - 2x HA - Prey - bar swap - LA - LL - LA - Blockade - bar swap - LA - Familiar - HA - Prey - HA - Bar swap and repeat.

Sparr0w

Mintaka5 wrote: »

This is the nature of magsorc. Although other players have yet to show me a 30K dps parse, I still do not believe this class can have sustained DPS over 20K. Other magicka classes yes, but not sorc. Most of the high hitting damage stems from bursts, with correct order and rotation of skills. If you don't get this exact rotation down, in combination with a specific pairing of sets, your sustained DPS will be marginal at best.

Magsorc is the most difficult class to master for damage dealt.

Huh?

Magsorcs rotation is 1 line, literally LL>Blockade>6 skills that's it. I've had 50k this patch with perfect gear, cp etc etc and I'm at 44k running mech acuity and scathing mage

Vahrokh

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

The parse from above (thanks @adeptusminor) was achieved with the following rotation:
Liquid Lightning > light attack > Elemental Blockade > swap > heavy attack > Daedric Prey > heavy attack > Volitile Familiar > swap > repeat.

The highest I've gotten on this self-buffed so far has been about 45.6k. And also the build I use in all content, even vMA. Does not require any skills to be changed around. This is also a 2 pet build, I use the twilight matriarch morph.

Why is prey in front of familiar? They should be the other way around. You are losing at lease one buffed tick of your familiar.

If you put familiar in front of prey, both with heavy attacks, you buff ticks 3, 4 and 5. If you put prey in front of familiar, I think you only buff ticks 1 and 2 consistently. Been a long time, but I think this was tested a while back.

I am not a theorycrafter, but with my rotation (which does not use clench) I get 1-2k more if I use prey before familiar. I get a bigger prey uptime in Combat Metrics with that.

Vahrokh

Mintaka5 wrote: »

This is the nature of magsorc. Although other players have yet to show me a 30K dps parse, I still do not believe this class can have sustained DPS over 20K. Other magicka classes yes, but not sorc. Most of the high hitting damage stems from bursts, with correct order and rotation of skills. If you don't get this exact rotation down, in combination with a specific pairing of sets, your sustained DPS will be marginal at best.

Magsorc is the most difficult class to master for damage dealt.

56k DPS on two pet magsorc. And I am below guild DPS average, as the DPS addon shows.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

codestripper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Pet sorcs have been breaking 40k with a basically a 5 skill 2 HA circular rotation for more than 2 years at this point. It's as easy as it gets.

Duh, I thought it was a 4 skill HA rotation. Which is the 5th?

Also, I dont break 40k with 2 HA but I do with 1 HA.
How can you break 40k if daedric curse is going to stay off for seconds?

Clench is what I have always used. Admittedly, it's been a little while since I have tried to min/max a pet sorc, but the rotation I have always used is simple (on purpose). This is always my go to when teaching newer players to achieve acceptable DPS to break into trials. I know lots of people that broke 40k for the first time on this rotation. There have been patches where this build was closer to 50K:

LA>LL,LA>Blockade, Bar Swap, HA>Familiar, HA>Daedric Prey, LA>Clench, Bar Swap, Repeat. (5 Skills, 2 Heavys)

The point of this is to remain circular. You can of course achieve better uptime if you juggle everything independently, but that defeats the purpose of this style of rotation. It's meant to be as simple as possible.

The thing to realize is that no matter how you line up Familiar and Daedric prey in a circular rotation, at best you will buff 3 of the 5 familiar ticks with prey. If you go light attack in front of both, you buff ticks 2,3,4. If you go heavy attack in front of both, you buff ticks 3,4,5. If you put prey in front of familiar, you only buff ticks 1 and 2.

Of course you still need to juggle potions and ultimates. Another trick with this build for parsing is to run elemental susceptibility over ele drain. You can cast it pre-fight and forget. Major breach will reapply itself, and you just dont need the magic steal for this setup. Running 2 heavies sustains almost infinitely. If you want towards execute, you can drop one of the heavies for another LA.

It wont break records, but it will break 40 if you are on top of everything.

The parse from above (thanks @adeptusminor) was achieved with the following rotation:
Liquid Lightning > light attack > Elemental Blockade > swap > heavy attack > Daedric Prey > heavy attack > Volitile Familiar > swap > repeat.

The highest I've gotten on this self-buffed so far has been about 45.6k. And also the build I use in all content, even vMA. Does not require any skills to be changed around. This is also a 2 pet build, I use the twilight matriarch morph.

Why is prey in front of familiar? They should be the other way around. You are losing at lease one buffed tick of your familiar.

If you put familiar in front of prey, both with heavy attacks, you buff ticks 3, 4 and 5. If you put prey in front of familiar, I think you only buff ticks 1 and 2 consistently. Been a long time, but I think this was tested a while back.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw It’s about buffing the final tick of the previous rotation’s familiar and the first tick of the next rotation’s. You’ll lose a little damage in a very short fight, but gain in a longer fight.

Whats the advantage of buffing the final tick? I dont think they increase in damage. Better to buff 2,3,4 than 1 and 5. But again, havent tried to optimize this in a patch or two. That said, I know 40k is more than doable, which was the point of this convo. Haha