Ice tanks screwed once again

Unit117

Not only is arctic blast the weakest max health heal of all classes for tanks, but it is now a completely liability for us to even run. Why do we need a target to activate our self heal?! I can’t even play Frost tank because of it.

For 1 and half years now. Ice staff tanking has been a joke and yet somehow we keep getting new ways of getting nerfed. Where are our buffs?! When are we actually going to be competive with other tanks?! Why is our max health heal for only 15% of our health while the others are around 25% up to the forties? Has anyone from zos actually tried to play ice staff tanking in the dlc vet dungeons? It’s completely impossible...

Unit117

@ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_BillE @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_GinaBruno I’m not singling anyone out. Y’all probably don’t even deal with this one. I just need to be heard. I’m a warden ice staff tank and it’s been unplayable for vet dlc dungeons since they have been a thing. I’ve made mulitiple posts over the month trying to bring attention to this issue and it seems like we just keep getting set further back with every patch and nothing addressing our actual issues being..

1.Our arctic heal being way way to weak to viably heal us for the damage we take as tanks. Every other class is significantly better. cloak, dragon blood, pet..

2. Our staves shield is way to little. Even trash mobs in vet dlc dungeons easily destroy it on hit.

3. Our staves taunting mechanic is way to slow. The wind up of a heavy attack feels like it takes forever. This leads to bad news for the team we are suppose to protect.

4. No sets.. there are a million fire, lightning and even poison sets that work to complement them. But us ice staff tanks have nothing. We haven’t had a set since maelstrom... that’s messed up. And none of them are for tanking.

I’m just tired of waiting and frustrated. And it feels like no one is listening. Us warden ice staff tanks exist too. Yet there’s not a single build for us on the internet.

GusTheWizard

Zos never said ice tanks were a thing, they said ice was a tanking Element and ice staff was a magic tank weapon but they never said you should limit yourself to one element.

That’s like saying I’m gonna make a lighting sorc and only use lightning abilities, it just doesn’t work.

Try adding in inner fire for your taunt and leeching veins for more heals, there’s also a passive in green balance when you heal someone under 40% heath with a green balance ability you gain major mending which will increase all your healing by 25%, so when you’re low you get bigger heals.

Unit117

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Try adding in inner fire for your taunt and leeching veins for more heals, there’s also a passive in green balance when you heal someone under 40% heath with a green balance ability you gain major mending which will increase all your healing by 25%, so when you’re low you get bigger heals.

I do use those. They are needed. It’s the whole ice staff tanking in general though. The basics of it all screwed. It really needs to be looked in too. I’m not using just ice skilline. As but I do pull a lot from it because it’s supposed to be the tanking skill line

ccfeeling

Could you provide more details , thank you !
Like gears setup and skill loadout please ?

GusTheWizard

When I use an ice staff for tanking I only have an ice staff on my back bar with S&B on my front bar, also I don’t take the first passive in the desto line so I can block with Stam and use magic for skills, Using magic to block really doesn’t work unfortunately.

Unit117

ccfeeling wrote: »

Could you provide more details , thank you !
Like gears setup and skill loadout please ?

Sure thing

Both icestaves
5 plague doctors
5 greenpact
2 iceheart

Front bar:
Polarwind
Grippingshards
Icefortress
Innerfire
Blockade of frost
Permafrost

Backbar:
Leechingvines
Lotus blossom
Frozen device
Weaknessof elements
Boneshield
Icyrage

17k magicka
50k health
10k stamina

29k spell resistance
28k physical resistance

Stamina isn’t a problem I don’t run out of magicka unless I’m having to spam our weak heal a thousand times. It’s usually fine because of heave attack rotation.
Health surprising enough is a issue because of how much damage you get hit for. I ended up needing these sets because it boosts a lot of max health parts that the winter embrace is built around. But sadly that means I run selfish sets because what’s the point if I’m barely keeping alive myself.

Unit117

GusTheWizard wrote: »

When I use an ice staff for tanking I only have an ice staff on my back bar with S&B on my front bar, also I don’t take the first passive in the desto line so I can block with Stam and use magic for skills, Using magic to block really doesn’t work unfortunately.

That’s what most others do too. But I love ice staff tanking and hate sword and board. I can most dungeons with it too. I think it’s a problem though that they didn’t make it viable for endgame if they are going make the ice staff for tanking. Ice tanking really deserves to be looked into for how long they put it off.

Rake

Tanking with (sub) zero shields

Unit117

Rake wrote: »

Tanking with (sub) zero shields

Honestly a magic version of boneshield would be great

D0PAMINE

@Unit117 Why not Vigor? I mean yeah that skill isnt Ice themed but I run Echoing Vigor on one of my Tanks because of that sweet sexy radius. Unless you're looking for a burst heal.

AlienatedGoat

Use the other morph in the meantime, polar wind. Arctic blast is completely wrecked as of now.

Hopefully ZOS fixes it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Unit117

D0PAMINE wrote: »

@Unit117 Why not Vigor? I mean yeah that skill isnt Ice themed but I run Echoing Vigor on one of my Tanks because of that sweet sexy radius. Unless you're looking for a burst heal.

Sadly it’s not good for ice staff tanking. And yeah need a burst heal

Unit117

Phage wrote: »

Use the other morph in the meantime, polar wind. Arctic blast is completely wrecked as of now.

Hopefully ZOS fixes it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah that’s currently what I’m using for now. I hope they seriously fix it..

MartiniDaniels

Ice staff works great with S&B, your stamina restores while you block with magicka and vice versa.

Unit117

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ice staff works great with S&B, your stamina restores while you block with magicka and vice versa.

I don’t use sword and board on this one. I do for my other tanks though. This one is specifically ice staff tank

MartiniDaniels

Unit117 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ice staff works great with S&B, your stamina restores while you block with magicka and vice versa.

I don’t use sword and board on this one. I do for my other tanks though. This one is specifically ice staff tank

If there was such effective and cheap taunt on ice staff like pierce armor it will be a miracle.. without it.. it very expensive to taunt everything with inner rage and ice HA is quite slow

Unit117

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Unit117 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Ice staff works great with S&B, your stamina restores while you block with magicka and vice versa.

I don’t use sword and board on this one. I do for my other tanks though. This one is specifically ice staff tank

If there was such effective and cheap taunt on ice staff like pierce armor it will be a miracle.. without it.. it very expensive to taunt everything with inner rage and ice HA is quite slow

Yep a glimpse on why I’m so frustrated that Ice tanking has been ignored for so long.

Moonsorrow

I always wish they would put the Taunt on frost staff to the Frost Clench instead of the heavy attack. Then make it competitive with Pierce Armor by adding the same resistance debuffs to it also, but reducing the range to be in line with Pierce Armor so it would not be too "op" at pvp at long range.

This change would for sure make frost tanking more fun and competitive instead of just as a back bar option on "fun builds". When instant taunt from weapon line with debuffs. Would bring nice build options, well i got plenty atleast if such ever happens.

Unit117

Moonsorrow wrote: »

I always wish they would put the Taunt on frost staff to the Frost Clench instead of the heavy attack.

Yeah that was suggested along time ago and would have been better. Honestly I thing they should just seperate ice from the destruction staff skill line and make a new skill line that actually aligns it with tanking. Most of its moves are useless for tanks. There are a ton of cool moves already in game used by mobs and npcs that would work for it...

Joosef_Kivikilpi

GusTheWizard wrote: »

When I use an ice staff for tanking I only have an ice staff on my back bar with S&B on my front bar, also I don’t take the first passive in the desto line so I can block with Stam and use magic for skills, Using magic to block really doesn’t work unfortunately.

Try running Lich set backbar Frost Staff with a sword and shield backup. When magic run lows from blocking on Frost Staff, switch to sword and shield, proc Lich --> Have netch for either stamina or magicka, depending on what works best for you for almost infinite sustain of both resources.

But... I've been wanting to legitimately be an Ice Mage for a few years... and when Morrowind dropped with Warden, I erected the spine of excitement hearing about the Winter's Embrace skill line... to be very disappointed. 1... ONE dps option and maybe 2-3 total that did SOME very miniscule cold damage. Granted, that's awesome for tanking, but I believe the ice skills could be more. And I also agree with someone above that more ICE sets need to be added. Constant fire or lightning sets/monster sets are getting really old.

goldenflameslinger

Maybe it’s just me but I have no love for ice staff. I guess I have been in too many instances where some noob is using one and keeps pulling agro from the tank. I can’t take ice staff anything seriously.

Unit117

Same it’s my absolute favorite. I just don’t understand why it’s being neglected as a element for so long. And why they changed it half way to tanking but kept it in a skill line not for tanking with abilities not for tanking

Unit117

goldenflameslinger wrote: »

Maybe it’s just me but I have no love for ice staff. I guess I have been in too many instances where some noob is using one and keeps pulling agro from the tank. I can’t take ice staff anything seriously.

It’s fair. There has been much good to come out of it. It’s a absolute wreck right now that really needs to be addressed. It’s been put off for too long

_Ahala_

Ice destruction staff is currently a failed hybrid tank dps weapon. It’s not good for dps because even though it’s a destruction staff its damage modifiers are bad and it’s condition is literally maim. It’s not good for tanks because it has no tanking ult, no tanking actives, and only two tanking passives because it’s a destruction staff. This is probably the laziest way zos could have introduced magicka tanking. Ice destruction staff should be given back to dps who want to play a cryonancer like they could in every other elder scroll title and a new dedicated magicka tanking weapon, alteration staff, should be introduced with a tanking ult, five tanking actives, and five tanking passives... according to elder scroll lore alteration is the magick of tanking not frost

Unit117

I honestly like the ice staff for tanking I just think it needs to be given its own skill line that actually favors tanking for it. But I completely agree it’s a failed hybrid

emilyhyoyeon

They really should make a new staff for magicka tanking and revert the ice destruction staff back to a damaging staff only. I think balancing would be much easier for magicka tanking if it had its own magicka weapon like an alteration staff or illusion staff.

Unit117

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

They really should make a new staff for magicka tanking and revert the ice destruction staff back to a damaging staff only. I think balancing would be much easier for magicka tanking if it had its own magicka weapon like an alteration staff or illusion staff.

I mean I like ice for tanking it makes sense to me out of the 3 elements. There is just such a better way it should have been handled that really frustrates me it’s this was for this long

ESO_Nightingale

Unit117 wrote: »

Not only is arctic blast the weakest max health heal of all classes for tanks, but it is now a completely liability for us to even run. Why do we need a target to activate our self heal?! I can’t even play Frost tank because of it.

For 1 and half years now. Ice staff tanking has been a joke and yet somehow we keep getting new ways of getting nerfed. Where are our buffs?! When are we actually going to be competive with other tanks?! Why is our max health heal for only 15% of our health while the others are around 25% up to the forties? Has anyone from zos actually tried to play ice staff tanking in the dlc vet dungeons? It’s completely impossible...

There have been like 600 recent posts/discussions already. Its safe to say that the reps know about it. I can say this because i sent those discussions to checkmath and talked to a few reps Liofa, Fear Turbo, Masel, Checkmath etc. about the state of the skill. They agreed and its one of wardens main pain points, if not the main one. They know that the damage that the old skill did, had a high chance to proc chilled making it an at least decent tank tool and that it was fun. And i have told them the master plan for the skill.

As always: make old arctic blast the base skill so that polar wind inherits that useful maim proc chance for chilled and becomes the defacto tank morph.

Then remove the tank heal from arctic blast and add back the old damage but make it scale off max magicka and spell damage. And make its projectile do decent damage/ also apply that same aoe field around you but the targeted enemy too.

Jeremy

Unit117 wrote: »

Not only is arctic blast the weakest max health heal of all classes for tanks, but it is now a completely liability for us to even run. Why do we need a target to activate our self heal?! I can’t even play Frost tank because of it.

For 1 and half years now. Ice staff tanking has been a joke and yet somehow we keep getting new ways of getting nerfed. Where are our buffs?! When are we actually going to be competive with other tanks?! Why is our max health heal for only 15% of our health while the others are around 25% up to the forties? Has anyone from zos actually tried to play ice staff tanking in the dlc vet dungeons? It’s completely impossible...

I've seen some Ice Staff tanks do DLC dungeons. So it's possible. I would agree they aren't ideal though.

Tanking on this game generally has been nerfed into mediocrity to be honest. They should go back to the days when maintaining a consistent block was what defined tanking. It gave the role more style and identity - and encouraged more players to take up the role. Most tanks I see these days are just DPS classes who taunt, and frankly who can blame them. They crippled the most interesting aspect of playing defense on this game.

Maura_Neysa

Unit117 wrote: »

Not only is arctic blast the weakest max health heal of all classes for tanks, but it is now a completely liability for us to even run. Why do we need a target to activate our self heal?! I can’t even play Frost tank because of it.

For 1 and half years now. Ice staff tanking has been a joke and yet somehow we keep getting new ways of getting nerfed. Where are our buffs?! When are we actually going to be competive with other tanks?! Why is our max health heal for only 15% of our health while the others are around 25% up to the forties? Has anyone from zos actually tried to play ice staff tanking in the dlc vet dungeons? It’s completely impossible...

First... I agree ZoS f us with with this change. However Arctic Wind is actually a 25% Max Health Heal, 15% up front and 2% 5x over 10 seconds.

There are actually only 3 weakness to Ice Tanking
- Battle Field Mobility (from S&B) 60% movement speed while blocking
- Defect Bolts (from S&B) - 15% Reduced damage from projectiles
- Shields worth of Resistance - the actual Shields resistances

The fixes
- Icy Aura - aka the Warden Passive that reduces the penitently from snares
- Frost Bite - Reduced the damage from melee attackers by 15%
- Ice Staffs have an Armor value, same as S&B

(Side note; Blocking with an Ice Staff should use the same animation as S&B and you conjure an Ice Shield while blocking)