ESO+ Price Increase

Indigo_Shade

Not sure if this has been mentioned anywhere (and did search), but the amount I was charged on Oct 30 for ES0+ was more then all the other months I paid for ESO+ in 2018.

Oct 1 - $14.99
Oct 30 - $16.14

Billing History via Account Info
ORDER# DATE PRODUCT PRICE TOTAL
<code> 10/29/2018 30 Days of ESO Plus™ $14.99 $16.14

What is with this 1.15 charge. I can't find any reference to it in my account info.

Hippie4927

I believe it's a new charge for tax.

idk

The recurring price has not changed. Tax is now required so that may be what you see.

The Tax is required for basically all internet purchases

yodased

https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/21/states-will-be-able-to-charge-sales-tax-on-online-purchases-thanks-to-the-supreme-court/

In a five-to-four decision issued today, the Supreme Court ruled that states can make online businesses collect sales taxes — even if they don’t have a physical presence in that state.

Today’s ruling overturns a decision from the Court in 1992 that paved the way for the explosion of online retail in the United States.

kadochka

yodased wrote: »

https://techcrunch.com/2018/06/21/states-will-be-able-to-charge-sales-tax-on-online-purchases-thanks-to-the-supreme-court/

In a five-to-four decision issued today, the Supreme Court ruled that states can make online businesses collect sales taxes — even if they don’t have a physical presence in that state.

Today’s ruling overturns a decision from the Court in 1992 that paved the way for the explosion of online retail in the United States.

*sigh..*

Indigo_Shade

Thanks folks. This is the actual first time I have seen this happen. And since there was no announcement from ZOS, I was like hmmmm!

Needless to say, unless a Mod chimes in, I'll consider this solved.

rumple9

That's why they started giving extra crowns no doubt

DanteYoda

So can they charge tax on customers not in the USA if so how and is that even legal?

Indigo_Shade

Pretty sure they will not be charging tax on non-US customers.

idk

Indigo_Shade wrote: »

Pretty sure they will not be charging tax on non-US customers.

This is completely a US issue as it is a US law that only affects the US. It is not an increase Zos is charging either. They are just required to collect and pay those collected taxes to each state that has laws requiring it.

That does not mean they have not been collecting appropriate taxes for other countries already. It would depend on laws in those countries.

kimaeril

I just got billed for my 6 month sub and noticed it was over $4 more than usual and was wondering what it was for. I've been paying the same amount since launch so this had me confused.

DaveMoeDee

kimaeril wrote: »

I just got billed for my 6 month sub and noticed it was over $4 more than usual and was wondering what it was for. I've been paying the same amount since launch so this had me confused.

You can probably make thatYou can probably make thatYou can probably make that $4 back with a 1 year sub next time.

Danikat

DanteYoda wrote: »

So can they charge tax on customers not in the USA if so how and is that even legal?

It depends on the tax law in your country. It's up to each government to decide what they tax and how much and it would actually be illegal for ZOS not to collect that tax and pass it on if required. But of course if you're not in the USA you'll be charged the tax rate for your country and it will go to your government, not the US government.

For example in Europe we've been paying tax (Value Added Tax or VAT specifically) on ESO+ and crown purchases, as well as purchases of the game itself, since day 1. Although it's not always obvious because over here the tax is included in the price. So when you see ESO+ advertised at £8.99 or €12.99 that is the total you'll pay - you're expected to know that a percentage of that is tax.

Other places may choose not to tax that type of product/service, or only to tax services provided by businesses with an office, factory or other official presence in the country/state. That's what's changed in the USA recently - some states used to only charge tax if the business was based there, now they all do it based on where the customer lives, so a lot of people who never paid tax on ESO+ now have to.

DocFrost72

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

DaveMoeDee

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

There is no awareness to raise. The Supreme Court decided this. Delivering the software digitally doesn't matter. You will get charged the same sales tax as if you bought it in your local Game Stop. You aren't going to come up with a better argument than ones already made before the court.

Unless you think you can get legislators to change laws concerning this.

Acrolas

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

South Dakota v. Wayfair established that both physical and economic presence are to be considered when establishing a sales tax nexus. It's an important change for web-based businesses, but it affects all interstate commerce such as catalogs and cold calls.

It's important to note that this is not additional revenue for ZOS or any other individual business. They report it, need a permit to collect it in the first place, and file it on whatever schedule they have (monthly, quarterly or annually).


There are differences in how states classify products, so some may see ESO+ as a taxable service, some as a non-taxable service, and others as a miscellaneous point of sale contributing to economic nexus. It's incredibly complicated. That's why people you'll never see on ESO Live handle this part of the business.

DocFrost72

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

There is no awareness to raise. The Supreme Court decided this. Delivering the software digitally doesn't matter. You will get charged the same sales tax as if you bought it in your local Game Stop. You aren't going to come up with a better argument than ones already made before the court.

The supreme court rules on existing law. If new law is introduced, and is also not found unconstitutional, the old precedent would in effect be "overturned." As for arguments, I'll have to go look for it.

Unless you think you can get legislators to change laws concerning this.

I have a feeling if more people knew that digital objects are being taxed simply because you are a resident of a state, legislators may feel pressure to listen to their constituency. Or not. Who knows these days.

Acrolas wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

South Dakota v. Wayfair established that both physical and economic presence are to be considered when establishing a sales tax nexus. It's an important change for web-based businesses, but it affects all interstate commerce such as catalogs and cold calls.

Thanks for the case name, I'll check it out.

It's important to note that this is not additional revenue for ZOS or any other individual business. They report it, need a permit to collect it in the first place, and file it on whatever schedule they have (monthly, quarterly or annually).

Oh for sure. ZOS' hands are tied when it comes to taxes and tax law. I don't blame them in the slightest (hence my initial post eeferencing my state and not the company).

There are differences in how states classify products, so some may see ESO+ as a taxable service, some as a non-taxable service, and others as a miscellaneous point of sale contributing to economic nexus. It's incredibly complicated. That's why people you'll never see on ESO Live handle this part of the business.

I'd vastly prefer entirely digital items to not be a taxable service, and will let my representatives know that.

shadowwraith666

in the UK VAT charges on digital goods and services (including games, music etc) was made law in 2014

Cundu_Ertur

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I'd vastly prefer entirely digital items to not be a taxable service, and will let my representatives know that.

You: "We had a deal: we elect you and you only do those things we want you to do."
Representatives: "We have altered the deal. Pray we do not alter it further."

So.....good luck with that.

A government that can give you anything can take from you everything. And eventually , it will.

OneForSorrow

Annoying, but some states (like mine) have been doing this for a while now.

Jayne_Doe

Of course we'd prefer not to be charged tax on digital goods, but as more and more services are online and the more we purchase movies and games digitally, the more money that states lose out on. The notion that we should only have to pay taxes on physical goods or if a company has a physical presence within your state is becoming antiquated in this digital age.

idk

DocFrost72 wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

There is no awareness to raise. The Supreme Court decided this. Delivering the software digitally doesn't matter. You will get charged the same sales tax as if you bought it in your local Game Stop. You aren't going to come up with a better argument than ones already made before the court.

The supreme court rules on existing law. If new law is introduced, and is also not found unconstitutional, the old precedent would in effect be "overturned." As for arguments, I'll have to go look for it.

Unless you think you can get legislators to change laws concerning this.

I have a feeling if more people knew that digital objects are being taxed simply because you are a resident of a state, legislators may feel pressure to listen to their constituency. Or not. Who knows these days.

Acrolas wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

This is confusing. Why does my state collect taxes on a digital item that does not exist in, travel through, stop in, or use infastructure (other than what I already pay for) in my state's borders? Might be time to raise awareness.

South Dakota v. Wayfair established that both physical and economic presence are to be considered when establishing a sales tax nexus. It's an important change for web-based businesses, but it affects all interstate commerce such as catalogs and cold calls.

Thanks for the case name, I'll check it out.

It's important to note that this is not additional revenue for ZOS or any other individual business. They report it, need a permit to collect it in the first place, and file it on whatever schedule they have (monthly, quarterly or annually).

Oh for sure. ZOS' hands are tied when it comes to taxes and tax law. I don't blame them in the slightest (hence my initial post eeferencing my state and not the company).

There are differences in how states classify products, so some may see ESO+ as a taxable service, some as a non-taxable service, and others as a miscellaneous point of sale contributing to economic nexus. It's incredibly complicated. That's why people you'll never see on ESO Live handle this part of the business.

I'd vastly prefer entirely digital items to not be a taxable service, and will let my representatives know that.

In effect legislators did pass this law, state by state.

In those states people are accustomed to paying sales tax for physical item as well as services. While legislators do follow pressure if it is enough, it is doubtful there will be enough to enact change on this since it is pretty much customary in those areas, and has been for years. It is just new that internet sales are no longer finding their exemption they used to.

So, yes, let your representative know. Even start up an awareness campaign and maybe a signature drive. Good luck.

Defilted

I have seen posts on this in the past. I live in America. I have been paying 14.99+tax for a total of 16.08 since June 9th 2015.

If you have not been getting charged tax then you laws have changed and now you are.

Congrats!

Volckodav

and to confirm in Canada nothing changes in my payment so yes, really US only (or any other countries with changing tax law)