An Undaunted tutorial would be nice

idk

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That is such a basic expectation of a raid leader (which the OP was) helping a new tank and would have resolved the entire situation.

Certainly something to consider for next time.

Lol, I quite clearly said in my original post:

I was recently asked by a guild member to help him through his first trial, nHRC He said he would tank it.

I neither said I was "raid" leader nor insinuated it.

You're clutching at straws or deflecting from your negativity. I'd suggest you properly read text before commenting. It's certainly something for you to consider for next time.

You seemed to indicate you put the raid together (with your friend). You also indicate your friend asked you to help them through their first trial.

Regardless if you assigned someone else to be the raid leader after forming the group, both areas did not do their role.

It really does not matter how one slices and dices it, the situation still comes back to the same point.

I didn't say he was my friend either. It was a guild member that asked in guild chat, and I offered to join and help him through. It was normal hel Ra and we did it without a tank, which is neither surprising nor difficult a feat.

I didn't go into the details of that particular trial because, as mentioned, it was just an anecdote to start off my suggestion.

You've entirely changed your point from "your idea sucks". - which when constructively given is fine - to "you should be a better trials leader".

To that last point, I'm an excellent trials leader, fyi.

1st, I merely presented some flaws with the idea and pretty sure I pointed out Zos is really a bad source for such information as well. Zos is one of the worst sources for learning how to play this game.

2nd, Guild, friend, does not matter. You clearly stated "we" formed the group and you were helping him get through his first trial, and helped very little which is my second point.

You can split hairs however you want to, it does not change it. Hopefully this is a lesson learned on how to help the next guild member that asks.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

idk wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That is such a basic expectation of a raid leader (which the OP was) helping a new tank and would have resolved the entire situation.

Certainly something to consider for next time.

Lol, I quite clearly said in my original post:

I was recently asked by a guild member to help him through his first trial, nHRC He said he would tank it.

I neither said I was "raid" leader nor insinuated it.

You're clutching at straws or deflecting from your negativity. I'd suggest you properly read text before commenting. It's certainly something for you to consider for next time.

You seemed to indicate you put the raid together (with your friend). You also indicate your friend asked you to help them through their first trial.

Regardless if you assigned someone else to be the raid leader after forming the group, both areas did not do their role.

It really does not matter how one slices and dices it, the situation still comes back to the same point.

I didn't say he was my friend either. It was a guild member that asked in guild chat, and I offered to join and help him through. It was normal hel Ra and we did it without a tank, which is neither surprising nor difficult a feat.

I didn't go into the details of that particular trial because, as mentioned, it was just an anecdote to start off my suggestion.

You've entirely changed your point from "your idea sucks". - which when constructively given is fine - to "you should be a better trials leader".

To that last point, I'm an excellent trials leader, fyi.

1st, I merely presented some flaws with the idea and pretty sure I pointed out Zos is really a bad source for such information as well. Zos is one of the worst sources for learning how to play this game.

2nd, Guild, friend, does not matter. You clearly stated "we" formed the group and you were helping him get through his first trial, and helped very little which is my second point.

You can split hairs however you want to, it does not change it. Hopefully this is a lesson learned on how to help the next guild member that asks.

What started as a simple anecdote has become the gear for you to grind upon and I cannot understand why.

After the first boss, I took the raid leader and non-tank tank into a private guild chat chanbel to discuss tanking. Everyone patiently waited. After a couple of minutes, I suggested he focus on damage. I went back into group chat and suggested we continue on without a tank... It would be a bit hectic but we had good damage dealers so it would be fine. For the next 2 (well three, upstairs and downstairs bosses split group) bosses, I carefully explained the mechanics to the "raid leader" and for anyone else that was new. We completed it perfectly fine. And people thanked me afterwards. I then had a 2 hour conversation with said "raid leader" describing what a tank is, how they tank and how you build it differently. We also spoke to dd's and what their role is. In the end, he chose to be a DD. Magicka sorc non pet build to be exact. I crafted him some Julian's to begin with and let him know he can message me anytime for further info. I also directed him to this site, Reddit and uesp.

Does that satisfy your ire towards me?

arun_rajputb16_ESO

And finally @idk had there been a tutorial on this, we wouldn't have run into this issue. Which was the central point of my post. Which is why I started with the now exhausted anecdote.

idk

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

BejaProphet wrote: »

I think we can all agree the original poster has not found the solution for stupid.

We can also agree that a player with a bit of initiative and an internet browser can figure things out.

I just think there is actually a sample of players in between those two categories which would be well served by a group role tutorial.

If it helps 5% of the player base, it's been of use.

I like your optimism. I would certainly hope one of the worst sources of information on how to play this game could help some players. Those completely inexperienced and do not seek out any information can be helped by even bad information.

For those that go on to do some serious tanking, their raid leaders will just have to re-train them.

But again, next time someone says they will help a tank through their first trial, hopefully they actually make sure the tank some basic understanding of what to do. Especially if Zos starts a tutorial about it.

arun_rajputb16_ESO

....and yes, you're spot on. ZOS is awful at providing information. Many years ago, they literally sent me to uesp and Reddit to get factual info on resistances in this game. But if we, as a community, come together and ask for things with good backup, they will listen.

BejaProphet

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

That is such a basic expectation of a raid leader (which the OP was) helping a new tank and would have resolved the entire situation.

Certainly something to consider for next time.

Lol, I quite clearly said in my original post:

I was recently asked by a guild member to help him through his first trial, nHRC He said he would tank it.

I neither said I was "raid" leader nor insinuated it.

You're clutching at straws or deflecting from your negativity. I'd suggest you properly read text before commenting. It's certainly something for you to consider for next time.

You seemed to indicate you put the raid together (with your friend). You also indicate your friend asked you to help them through their first trial.

Regardless if you assigned someone else to be the raid leader after forming the group, both areas did not do their role.

It really does not matter how one slices and dices it, the situation still comes back to the same point.

I didn't say he was my friend either. It was a guild member that asked in guild chat, and I offered to join and help him through. It was normal hel Ra and we did it without a tank, which is neither surprising nor difficult a feat.

I didn't go into the details of that particular trial because, as mentioned, it was just an anecdote to start off my suggestion.

You've entirely changed your point from "your idea sucks". - which when constructively given is fine - to "you should be a better trials leader".

To that last point, I'm an excellent trials leader, fyi.

1st, I merely presented some flaws with the idea and pretty sure I pointed out Zos is really a bad source for such information as well. Zos is one of the worst sources for learning how to play this game.

2nd, Guild, friend, does not matter. You clearly stated "we" formed the group and you were helping him get through his first trial, and helped very little which is my second point.

You can split hairs however you want to, it does not change it. Hopefully this is a lesson learned on how to help the next guild member that asks.

What started as a simple anecdote has become the gear for you to grind upon and I cannot understand why.

After the first boss, I took the raid leader and non-tank tank into a private guild chat chanbel to discuss tanking. Everyone patiently waited. After a couple of minutes, I suggested he focus on damage. I went back into group chat and suggested we continue on without a tank... It would be a bit hectic but we had good damage dealers so it would be fine. For the next 2 (well three, upstairs and downstairs bosses split group) bosses, I carefully explained the mechanics to the "raid leader" and for anyone else that was new. We completed it perfectly fine. And people thanked me afterwards. I then had a 2 hour conversation with said "raid leader" describing what a tank is, how they tank and how you build it differently. We also spoke to dd's and what their role is. In the end, he chose to be a DD. Magicka sorc non pet build to be exact. I crafted him some Julian's to begin with and let him know he can message me anytime for further info. I also directed him to this site, Reddit and uesp.

Does that satisfy your ire towards me?

My fav post this year.

Starlock

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

....and yes, you're spot on. ZOS is awful at providing information. Many years ago, they literally sent me to uesp and Reddit to get factual info on resistances in this game. But if we, as a community, come together and ask for things with good backup, they will listen.

Dear lords.

I remember the days when you bought a game, it came with a manual. An honest to goodness paper manual. And for a game as complex as Elder Scrolls Online, that manual would have been quite thick. Companies used to be responsible about putting this sort of stuff together on their own. But it is expensive, so they outsource it or don't bother doing it at all these days. The trend of digital downloads didn't help with this. This game seriously needs a 200-page manual.

Tasear

Maybe we could mirgrate this into guild updates? Let people teach each other? Save rotation at test dummies? Maybe guild lorebooks with how to do x? Guild training areas for how do x mechanics?

P.S What's an improper healer?

arun_rajputb16_ESO

Tasear wrote: »

Maybe we could mirgrate this into guild updates? Let people teach each other? Save rotation at test dummies? Maybe guild lorebooks with how to do x? Guild training areas for how do x mechanics?

P.S What's an improper healer?

How do you practice/healing tanking or healing on a test dummy?

It's a lot to ask for guilds. And it requires the person that needs "training" to know they need it. If you don't know what a tank/taunt is and haven't heard of it, why would you go seek out the knowledge?

An improper healer is one that doesn't heal... Usually sorcs that keep themselves healed or shielded quite easily

Tasear

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Maybe we could mirgrate this into guild updates? Let people teach each other? Save rotation at test dummies? Maybe guild lorebooks with how to do x? Guild training areas for how do x mechanics?

P.S What's an improper healer?

How do you practice/healing tanking or healing on a test dummy?

It's a lot to ask for guilds. And it requires the person that needs "training" to know they need it. If you don't know what a tank/taunt is and haven't heard of it, why would you go seek out the knowledge?

An improper healer is one that doesn't heal... Usually sorcs that keep themselves healed or shielded quite easily

Easy new test dummy. Set up areas where things can die. After the area is setup it runs by itself for the most part.

idk

Tasear wrote: »

Maybe we could mirgrate this into guild updates? Let people teach each other? Save rotation at test dummies? Maybe guild lorebooks with how to do x? Guild training areas for how do x mechanics?

P.S What's an improper healer?

This idea is great. I believe I had stated guilds are good for learning. Heck, I cannot tell you how many tanks I have explained how to tank even easy trials like vSO.

Tasear wrote: »

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Maybe we could mirgrate this into guild updates? Let people teach each other? Save rotation at test dummies? Maybe guild lorebooks with how to do x? Guild training areas for how do x mechanics?

P.S What's an improper healer?

How do you practice/healing tanking or healing on a test dummy?

It's a lot to ask for guilds. And it requires the person that needs "training" to know they need it. If you don't know what a tank/taunt is and haven't heard of it, why would you go seek out the knowledge?

An improper healer is one that doesn't heal... Usually sorcs that keep themselves healed or shielded quite easily

Easy new test dummy. Set up areas where things can die. After the area is setup it runs by itself for the most part.

With this I have always disagreed. Especially with healing.

First, players not dying is just part of healing in this game. Half of it is buffing/debuffing and sustain.

For the healing part each fight is different and it really takes time in the saddle to get accustomed with what to watch for to prepare for the heavy damage phases.

However, I will certainly agree that getting used to a rotation, which healing has one, could help since one has to be comfortable with the use of ones skills, cannot be thinking about what to do next when healing. Has to be innate. Do not see what a test dummy would do. Certainly would not be useful as a benchmark for trials

Maybe you could enlighten us with how a test dummy could prepare someone for healing the newer trials.

For tanking, it is merely knowing where ones skills are. There is no actual rotation, though it is still getting comfortable with ones skills.

Just my silly opinion.

albesca

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

I think you misunderstand his reasoning. He didn't know what a tank was, per say. He thought it was something else so he thought he'd give it a go. From his perspective, he was going into his first trial as the tank - there is no real or helpful explanation of the role in game. People want to play the game, not read up on it.

This kind of approach works fine in single player games, cause you're the only player around, so you can take your time, try as many times as needed, reload if you don't like the outcomes; when other people are involved searching a bit in advance is a must, otherwise you risk wasting others' time

On the flip side, I have a friend that did all the research on the game before starting. He built a stam nb. Put all the skills together, ground his way up to 50 and >160CP. He didn't have a clue what he was doing or why he was using certain abilities. In the end, it was too much and he quit 6 weeks later.

Maybe he did enough research, but I think he didn't do enough experiments with skills and sets, otherwise he couldn't have got over 160 CPs without a clue about how the game works.
ESO is a complex game that requires studying but also a lot of tinkering with skills and gear, a simple tutorial could have helped in the first case, but not in this one.

At level 0, we have a tutorial on the very basics of movement and combat (why they give you a two hander to start with is beyond me). There is no reason to not have another one going into a little detail on group play.

ESO could use a group activity tutorial and some kind of guide (even the simplest facts, like trial and arena requiring you to manually form a group, aren't clearly stated), I certainly agree with that.

dovakiin5574

There was literally 0 tutorial for even dpsing until the whole class guides with Morrowind and even then there is no in game tutorial showing you what even is roles. I'd like to see an optional quest line for the new people where they can be instanced into a small dungeon with 3 helper NPCs and the player temporarily becomes a level 50 with basic skills for their role. Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS. The NPCs would fill the roles the player is not and the quest giver would talk the player through a short boss fight. Put a quest giver for this in Reaper's March, Bankorai, and The Rift. That way new players getting close to CP can learn proper roles before getting in to vet dungeons.

@ZOS_GinaBruno