DPS Dummies...

Odovacar

"Ah yes, captured by ellipsis again "

Anyhow... Do you think ZOS would ever consider DPS dummies (or smarties ) that offer an abbreviated combat scenario? I think it would be super helpful to have a DPS breakdown with some real in-game mechanics to practice against. Picture your normally perfect rotation having to all of a sudden be halted by your tested dummy's AOE, etc. These could range from mini-bosses all the way to a trial boss style with mechanics fitting for each tier of difficulty you would choose.

What do you guys think?

Would this even be something to ever consider?

*edited*: Thread mainly console driven due to no add-ons and zero combat metrics breakdown that I suppose an ordinary vMA run could easily provide.

MartiniDaniels

Odovacar wrote: »

"Ah yes, captured by ellipsis again "

Anyhow... Do you think ZOS would ever consider DPS dummies (or smarties ) that offer an abbreviated combat scenario? I think it would be super helpful to have a DPS breakdown with some real in-game mechanics to practice against. Picture your normally perfect rotation having to all of a sudden be halted by your tested dummy's AOE, etc. These could range from mini-bosses all the way to a trial boss style with mechanics fitting for each tier of difficulty you would choose.

What do you guys think?

Would this even be something to ever consider?

Just go on indoor WB solo in low peak hour so probably nobody will come to "help"

Oakmontowls_ESO

I'd just like to be able to set the debuffs on the dummy so I can have breach and magic steal without needing to slot or have someone else cast ele drain.

VaranisArano

Personally, I'd prefer for ZOS to add an in game DPS meter for everyone similar to what PC users get through add-ons.

Odovacar

agreed. I've been crying to the ZOS gods forever to get something comparable to PC's combat metric's breakdown add-on...

MashmalloMan

What would be the point. The point of the dps dummy is to see your max dps potential. It's up to everyone to learn how to be dynamic and understand that your dps in a real fight will always be different due to mechanics.

I'd rather want the choice of something that provided group debuffs and buffs so you can see what your dps REALLY is in comparison to other classes like night blades.

Imagine little boxes you press that add a buff or debuff to every person or dummy in the home.

Click -> Minor Berserk
Click -> Major Fracture

John_Falstaff

I think that the dummy in question is called Maelstrom Arena. >.> All the real mechanics there. I'm not even joking all that much here, because 'dummy with mechanics' would occupy too narrow a niche between arena and usual dummy. Running a round of arena may actually be a lithmus paper to the performance, though I'll admit it has more time overhead.

Speaking for myself, I would want to have 'debuff' options on a dummy to make parses more or less standard. If, for instance, I want to swap Cloak (or something else for that matter) in place of Noxious Breath, I can't reliably compare parses because I lose Major Fracture (which I know I will almost always have in group content). I'd rather have the ability to turn some debuffs on/off to emulate damage with all other conditions being equal.

(Pressed the post button and found out that @Marshall1289 got there first - so yes, basically what he said. ^^)

MartiniDaniels

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I think that the dummy in question is called Maelstrom Arena. >.> All the real mechanics there. I'm not even joking all that much here, because 'dummy with mechanics' would occupy too narrow a niche between arena and usual dummy. Running a round of arena may actually be a lithmus paper to the performance, though I'll admit it has more time overhead.

Speaking for myself, I would want to have 'debuff' options on a dummy to make parses more or less standard. If, for instance, I want to swap Cloak (or something else for that matter) in place of Noxious Breath, I can't reliably compare parses because I lose Major Fracture (which I know I will almost always have in group content). I'd rather have the ability to turn some debuffs on/off to emulate damage with all other conditions being equal.

Arena wouldn't be a correct PVE meter because it's solo, you sacrificing a lot for survivability etc.. it's activity completely different from trials.

John_Falstaff

@MartiniDaniels , mm-m, I would say that first arena at least, you can do without investing in anything special, straight with your trial build. Can also do normal arena - that won't pose any threat and will still exercise damage and mechanics combined.

Odovacar

Marshall1289 wrote: »

What would be the point. The point of the dps dummy is to see your max dps potential. It's up to everyone to learn how to be dynamic and understand that your dps in a real fight will always be different due to mechanics.

I'd rather want the choice of something that provided group debuffs and buffs so you can see what your dps REALLY is in comparison to other classes like night blades.

Imagine little boxes you press that add a buff or debuff to every person or dummy in the home.

Click -> Minor Berserk
Click -> Major Fracture

in this caviar dream of mine I wouldn't think ideas such as yours is not a possiblty but only to see what would make a much more improved tester before you venture out into real content. And comeon, you know ZOS would sell us each

Marshall1289 wrote: »

What would be the point. The point of the dps dummy is to see your max dps potential. It's up to everyone to learn how to be dynamic and understand that your dps in a real fight will always be different due to mechanics.

I'd rather want the choice of something that provided group debuffs and buffs so you can see what your dps REALLY is in comparison to other classes like night blades.

Imagine little boxes you press that add a buff or debuff to every person or dummy in the home.

Click -> Minor Berserk
Click -> Major Fracture

Nice idea! Also, max dps that a skelly shows you is, well, just standing there and holds no value to me. I'm a console peasant, so I guess a lot of my wishes have to do with wanting something to better gauge performance.

Odovacar

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I think that the dummy in question is called Maelstrom Arena. >.> All the real mechanics there. I'm not even joking all that much here, because 'dummy with mechanics' would occupy too narrow a niche between arena and usual dummy. Running a round of arena may actually be a lithmus paper to the performance, though I'll admit it has more time overhead.

Speaking for myself, I would want to have 'debuff' options on a dummy to make parses more or less standard. If, for instance, I want to swap Cloak (or something else for that matter) in place of Noxious Breath, I can't reliably compare parses because I lose Major Fracture (which I know I will almost always have in group content). I'd rather have the ability to turn some debuffs on/off to emulate damage with all other conditions being equal.

Arena wouldn't be a correct PVE meter because it's solo, you sacrificing a lot for survivability etc.. it's activity completely different from trials.

Thanks for the reply.

vMA was tough and I enjoyed every minute of it until I got what I was looking for. But I was thinking for something to read me back where I'm at in, yes, a vMA style scenario I suppose. I think I should of put *console* in the title.

Anotherone773

Some people take this game way to seriously. You could just do VMA or run a dungeon solo, or a WB solo. etc.

John_Falstaff

I probably overlooked that tidbit about console - yes, without Combat Metrics, measuring your performance in vMA (or nMA) won't be give that much of feedback. Console users miss out on some incredibly useful addon-provided features.

But instead of better training dummies, ZOS offers a musical box with a single tune. ^^

Odovacar

John_Falstaff wrote: »

I probably overlooked that tidbit about console - yes, without Combat Metrics, measuring your performance in vMA (or nMA) won't be give that much of feedback. Console users miss out on some incredibly useful addon-provided features.

But instead of better training dummies, ZOS offers a musical box with a single tune. ^^

haha, yes indeed.. the music box will be the life to me and my guildies #MURKMIRE!!!

Danksta

I think it would be easier for them to just add some form of combat metrics.

MartiniDaniels

Danksta wrote: »

I think it would be easier for them to just add some form of combat metrics.

They will never add this because every random guy who never used dummy will see how useless is his build..

Now he pugs to non-dlc dungeon.. probably other dps or healer or fake tank will be a real dps and will carry this team while random guy will see how boss consistently melts and so everybody is happy. Real dps feels his superiority, random guy wears dungeon set or even a new monster helm.. with dps meter, which will show 5-10k, random guy will understand that it will take much longer to finish boss with his dps and so something is wrong and he is weak part of the chain, he will start reading about builds, eventually will know about lack of balance and will go to forums for whining.

zaria

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

I'd just like to be able to set the debuffs on the dummy so I can have breach and magic steal without needing to slot or have someone else cast ele drain.

And providing orbs / shards, in any fight you need an dps requirement this should be provided or kick healer, assuming he is not healing until puking trying to keep you alive.

MartiniDaniels

zaria wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

I'd just like to be able to set the debuffs on the dummy so I can have breach and magic steal without needing to slot or have someone else cast ele drain.

And providing orbs / shards, in any fight you need an dps requirement this should be provided or kick healer, assuming he is not healing until puking trying to keep you alive.

And if healer provides 50%+ group dps then wut? Kick weakest dps and take healer instead?

zaria

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

zaria wrote: »

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

I'd just like to be able to set the debuffs on the dummy so I can have breach and magic steal without needing to slot or have someone else cast ele drain.

And providing orbs / shards, in any fight you need an dps requirement this should be provided or kick healer, assuming he is not healing until puking trying to keep you alive.

And if healer provides 50%+ group dps then wut? Kick weakest dps and take healer instead?

Making the discussion irrelevant.
DD dps requirements start at vBC2 kick in at vCoA2,
Yes I have had runs there my leveling warden healer had 80% of dps, normal BC2 on keeper Indril, It failed as I exited and re-queued.
Almost failed again on leveling tank going dd with no dd passives "soloing" last boss with 7k dps.
Its another level of incompetence. I have dropped normal darkshade 2 dungeon runs because group is headless chickens.
Guild runs and then pretty fun an the dungeon I became an Healer.