PvP 2018 Stamina

Skander

Bleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEATBleeds
Incap/dawnbreaker
Steeltornado
no counterplay
REPEAT

Mrsinister2

There is usually a sub assault in there as well hitting harder then the dawn breaker

Skander

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

There is usually a sub assault in there as well hitting harder then the dawn breaker

and lowering your armor by 5k

ATomiX96

we get it, stamina is overperforming, stop spamming threads pls. thx

_Ahala_

Hmm... well when it comes to most stamina players, they are so predictable due to the aforementioned monotony of their burst rotation that you can tell when they are gonna db or uncap and block accordingly (75-50% health when all dots and bleeds are applied) Only problem I have with stam as a mag toon at this point is getting pit bulled by groups of 2+ bleed stacking snare spammers and then not being able to recover from execute without a preapplied hot due to the weakness of healing ward now that is has no initial heal to pull you out of execute range...

If all mag classes were given their own ways to deal with snares and roots without extensive stam investment this would likely not be a problem... it seems from zos change to the grace passive that they want mag toons to survive by a mixture of heals, wards, and mobility, however this passive that was supposed to help alleviate the ward nerf is not well thought out or working as intended...

Grace removes snares multiplicatively instead of additivly even though zos indicated otherwise through the pre NDA class rep system... so with 20% snare reduction a 30% snare gets reduced to 24% on live instead of 10% like it’s supposed to be... second, sprint cost reduction on mages is just dumb as most of the time the act of sprinting with a low stam pool build (ie 90% of mage builds) gets you killed by the next stun burst combo... if the grace passive was truly directed towards moving mage survivability from wards and heals to wards, heals, and mobility then it should have given additive snare reduction (up to 28% in 7 light) and a flat 10% speed bonus

Waffennacht

Shuffle now reduces all of those abilities except NB Incap by 25%....

Rending is dodgeable...

Just saying

usmguy1234

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Hmm... well when it comes to most stamina players, they are so predictable due to the aforementioned monotony of their burst rotation that you can tell when they are gonna db or uncap and block accordingly (75-50% health when all dots and bleeds are applied) Only problem I have with stam as a mag toon at this point is getting pit bulled by groups of 2+ bleed stacking snare spammers and then not being able to recover from execute without a preapplied hot due to the weakness of healing ward now that is has no initial heal to pull you out of execute range...

If all mag classes were given their own ways to deal with snares and roots without extensive stam investment this would likely not be a problem... it seems from zos change to the grace passive that they want mag toons to survive by a mixture of heals, wards, and mobility, however this passive that was supposed to help alleviate the ward nerf is not well thought out or working as intended...

Grace removes snares multiplicatively instead of additivly even though zos indicated otherwise through the pre NDA class rep system... so with 20% snare reduction a 30% snare gets reduced to 24% on live instead of 10% like it’s supposed to be... second, sprint cost reduction on mages is just dumb as most of the time the act of sprinting with a low stam pool build (ie 90% of mage builds) gets you killed by the next stun burst combo... if the grace passive was truly directed towards moving mage survivability from wards and heals to wards, heals, and mobility then it should have given additive snare reduction (up to 28% in 7 light) and a flat 10% speed bonus

And some mag specs of certain classes only can depend on vampire for mobility which means getting smacked by a dawn breaker is pretty much a death sentence. I get that you have to sacrifice things for mobility but mist form isn't even that great compared to how it gimps your character. Most of the time I die before I reach Los while in mist form.

DKsUnite

Waffennacht wrote: »

Shuffle now reduces all of those abilities except NB Incap by 25%....

Rending is dodgeable...

Just saying

Let me just use my shuffle and roll dodge every second... oh wait... im magicka >.>

MaxJrFTW

Stamina is so op that the 2 strongest classes at the moment are magplars and magdens...and stamdens i guess.

People seriously need to stop crying and start getting better.

susmitds

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stamina is so op that the 2 strongest classes at the moment are magplars and magdens...and stamdens i guess.

People seriously need to stop crying and start getting better.

Magplar, Stamden, sure. Magden, naw.

wheem_ESO

MaxJrFTW wrote: »

Stamina is so op that the 2 strongest classes at the moment are magplars and magdens...and stamdens i guess.

People seriously need to stop crying and start getting better.

You're comparing apples and oranges. Unless of course you're suggesting that Magicka Templars and Wardens are better in offensive roles than Stamina builds are, in which case you should start giving lessons to all of the various premade BG teams on PC-NA (and please do, my survivability would go way up if they all listen to you).

I'll extend an olive branch - How about we make some sizable nerfs to Stamina classes' damage and mobility (bringing it more in line with what's available to Magicka), and in return offer them the ability to run support specs that compare to the Magicka Templar and Warden options?

Twohothardware

Yeah there was loads of counterplay when just a couple of months ago the meta was:

Haunting Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage -> dead

Mihael

Twohothardware wrote: »

Yeah there was loads of counterplay when just a couple of months ago the meta was:

Haunting Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage -> dead

It that’s all it took to kill you you are probs still dead lol

CyrusArya

Mihael wrote: »

It that’s all it took to kill you you are probs still dead lol

If all it takes is bleeds to kill you, you’re probably dead all the time too regardless. No good player struggles hopelessly vs bleeds 1v1 and everything is rough 1vX or outnumbered.

For what it’s worth Skander I been doing great vs the vast majority of stam builds on my magplar and I’m sure I could do the same on my sorc if I returned to it or my mdk if wanted to play that class. You need to learn from your deaths and learn to play in general instead of respawning on the forums every time you die, which judging by the frequency of your threads is often.

Edit: you as in rhetorically, not you specifically.

Twohothardware

Mihael wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Yeah there was loads of counterplay when just a couple of months ago the meta was:

Haunting Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage -> dead

It that’s all it took to kill you you are probs still dead lol

That's all it took to kill the majority of players, especially Stamina. Shield stacking Sorcs or MagNB's were the only ones more able to counter it because of shields protecting you while your CC'd. By contrast most of the players complaining about bleed damage now are shield users which struggle more against bleed builds.

Thogard

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

Waffennacht

Twohothardware wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Yeah there was loads of counterplay when just a couple of months ago the meta was:

Haunting Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage -> dead

It that’s all it took to kill you you are probs still dead lol

That's all it took to kill the majority of players, especially Stamina. Shield stacking Sorcs or MagNB's were the only ones more able to counter it because of shields protecting you while your CC'd. By contrast most of the players complaining about bleed damage now are shield users which struggle more against bleed builds.

That's completely false; most players talking about bleeds are stamina users that recognize now a free dot that ignores resistance and synergies very well with stamina builds.

Bleeds are powerful. Only counters are cloak and extended ritual

Edit: and trellis

Flame_of_Hades

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

While I agree with your overall point, I do not think that it will be sorcs that will be king. I think it will be a new build that surprises most people, most likely taking advantage of the draining shot changes.

Twohothardware

Waffennacht wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Mihael wrote: »

Twohothardware wrote: »

Yeah there was loads of counterplay when just a couple of months ago the meta was:

Haunting Curse -> Meteor -> Rune Cage -> dead

It that’s all it took to kill you you are probs still dead lol

That's all it took to kill the majority of players, especially Stamina. Shield stacking Sorcs or MagNB's were the only ones more able to counter it because of shields protecting you while your CC'd. By contrast most of the players complaining about bleed damage now are shield users which struggle more against bleed builds.

That's completely false; most players talking about bleeds are stamina users that recognize now a free dot that ignores resistance and synergies very well with stamina builds.

Bleeds are powerful. Only counters are cloak and extended ritual

Edit: and trellis

Cloak and extended ritual aren't the only two counters to bleeds. Investing more into healing for stronger Vigor/Rally, running HoT's, putting more CP into Thick Skinned, applying Minor/Major maim, and anything that gives a flat damage reduction will together reduce bleed damage allowing you to better heal through it.

Stamina and healing/cloak MagNB builds are able to counter bleed damage the best. A shield stacking MagSorc is going to have the harder time dealing with constant bleed damage and procs because of weak healing and now bleeds Crit on shields.

And aren't you on Xbox One? The bleed damage and enchant procs are considerably stronger on PC with Murkmire compared to console, at least until this latest patch that toned down enchant procs.

Joy_Division

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

Better than last patch for sure and no speed pots make them a lot harder to run down. Until they get a good CC, think the class still has holes if it's trying to do more than kill people from 40 meters away.

PhoenixGrey

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

They are a little stronger compared to last patch.

Metemsycosis

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

Streak is more class defining than any mechanics related to shields and sorcs still have that crazy burst. So hopefully you're not trolling bc I agree with you

Derra

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

Not really since sorc dmg is still easy to avoid and or hardcounter for every class.

Feanor

Thogard wrote: »

Nobody will believe me, but Mag sorcs will be kings by the end of this patch cycle.

In a world where everyone is slow, the streak spam + range dmg is wowstrongwow

While I nornally agree with your statements „Streak spam“ is an oxymoron. The damage is lower than it was also because you need to build for more defense and have less utility due to the missing 3rd bar. So, potato mashing Kings maybe. Just as before.

Thogard

Well maybe this’ll be the time I’m wrong.
But I’ve gotten it written down and dated so I can @ you doubters later, the same way I Hit everyone with the @ who made fun of me for running 2 swift on day 1 of summerset (“you’ll lose so much damage!” They said), everyone who said stacking sub assaults wasn’t strong (“it’s so easy to avoid” they said) and everyone who said running wings on a Stam DK was dumb (“you won’t have the mag for that AND igneous” they said)

I hope I’m wrong. But I’m already kiting Zergs on my mag sorcs and picking off the straglers, so... yeah.

Waffennacht

.

Thogard wrote: »

Well maybe this’ll be the time I’m wrong.
But I’ve gotten it written down and dated so I can @ you doubters later, the same way I Hit everyone with the @ who made fun of me for running 2 swift on day 1 of summerset (“you’ll lose so much damage!” They said), everyone who said stacking sub assaults wasn’t strong (“it’s so easy to avoid” they said) and everyone who said running wings on a Stam DK was dumb (“you won’t have the mag for that AND igneous” they said)

I hope I’m wrong. But I’m already kiting Zergs on my mag sorcs and picking off the straglers, so... yeah.

Trust me; on this; you indeed are wrong. Sorc is not, in anyway, stronger with crits hurting Shields.

Nope, not with 90% dodgeable, not with purgeable burst, and kiting is non-existent with gap closers

Oh and resistance means nothing to bleeds and 2h ult

del9

Thogard wrote: »

Well maybe this’ll be the time I’m wrong.
But I’ve gotten it written down and dated so I can @ you doubters later, the same way I Hit everyone with the @ who made fun of me for running 2 swift on day 1 of summerset (“you’ll lose so much damage!” They said), everyone who said stacking sub assaults wasn’t strong (“it’s so easy to avoid” they said) and everyone who said running wings on a Stam DK was dumb (“you won’t have the mag for that AND igneous” they said)

I hope I’m wrong. But I’m already kiting Zergs on my mag sorcs and picking off the straglers, so... yeah.

The prophet has spoken...

Except that magdks and magplars will shred sorcs. Sorcs will not outshine either of those two specs at anytime this patch.

SHADOW2KK

Adapt

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

.

Thogard wrote: »

Well maybe this’ll be the time I’m wrong.
But I’ve gotten it written down and dated so I can @ you doubters later, the same way I Hit everyone with the @ who made fun of me for running 2 swift on day 1 of summerset (“you’ll lose so much damage!” They said), everyone who said stacking sub assaults wasn’t strong (“it’s so easy to avoid” they said) and everyone who said running wings on a Stam DK was dumb (“you won’t have the mag for that AND igneous” they said)

I hope I’m wrong. But I’m already kiting Zergs on my mag sorcs and picking off the straglers, so... yeah.

Trust me; on this; you indeed are wrong. Sorc is not, in anyway, stronger with crits hurting Shields.

Nope, not with 90% dodgeable, not with purgeable burst, and kiting is non-existent with gap closers

Oh and resistance means nothing to bleeds and 2h ult

Well let’s see.

Ender1310

Waffennacht wrote: »

Shuffle now reduces all of those abilities except NB Incap by 25%....

Rending is dodgeable...

Just saying

Has anyone tested Major Evasion? Is it noticeable?

Ender1310

My take on shields against some builds they seem stronger or just as strong. Against others they crumble. Usually the glass cannons crumble my shields. the ones spamming Snipe and such. But when you catch up to them they usually crumble so quid pro quo. It seems the archer is really strong against robed characters. I am okay with that.

Against reasonable builds that split their focus on survivability and damage and sustain <-- you know like a good build should. Shields seem okay. Anyone else have a take?