Set piece drops, traits are evenly distributed (Y/N)?

ImmortalCX

I've noticed that set piece drops don't seem to represent all eight possible traits for a particular set. When I'm farming a set, I keep getting duplicates of one of several repeating traits.

What I'm not sure about is if all traits for a particular sets/pieces are even represented in the drop table? For instance is the chance of getting a Sunderflame (heavy) w/ divines > 0%? Are the traits of heavy sets weighted towards tanking traits? And are the traits for light/medium pieces weighted towards dps or utility traits?

Those who have been farming gear sets longer than I, will have a better perspective on the RNG of traits. IMO, it seems like sets are heavily weighted towards a few repeating traits. Its not yet clear to me if you can get any piece in any trait, and if so, what is the %chance.

Maikon

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I've noticed that set piece drops don't seem to represent all eight possible traits for a particular set. When I'm farming a set, I keep getting duplicates of one of several repeating traits.

What I'm not sure about is if all traits for a particular sets/pieces are even represented in the drop table? For instance is the chance of getting a Sunderflame (heavy) w/ divines > 0%? Are the traits of heavy sets weighted towards tanking traits? And are the traits for light/medium pieces weighted towards dps or utility traits?

Those who have been farming gear sets longer than I, will have a better perspective on the RNG of traits. IMO, it seems like sets are heavily weighted towards a few repeating traits. Its not yet clear to me if you can get any piece in any trait, and if so, what is the %chance.

Most people don't care about trait drops anymore since they can just transmute them.

ghastley

I think there's actually more of the exact opposite. Some unique set pieces dropped will always have the same trait.

Kanar

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

ImmortalCX

Kanar wrote: »

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

I agree. This is good and bad.

Whenever I've tried to farm a med/divines set, I usually have 2-3 armor divines, full jewelry, and at least one set weapon within five runs. It seems much easier to farm a rudimentary five piece set in a good trait than it should be.

OTH, it seems more difficult (maybe impossible?) to farm heavy armor set with dps traits.

SirAndy

ESO rng has always been heavily weighted. You can see this in pretty much anything that is rng based in this game.

So yes, drops are not fully random, as mentioned above, they are weighted ...

Kadoin

Kanar wrote: »

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

I honestly think drops might be time-dependent. One day someone will find the drop and RNG formula, setting us all free!

ImmortalCX

Kadoin wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

I honestly think drops might be time-dependent. One day someone will find the drop and RNG formula, setting us all free!

You may be onto something.

There are lots of interesting things they can do server side with drop tables/weighting.

bearbelly

Noob question:

Do the effects of the same trait in multiple pieces of a set stack?

Katahdin

Nope
Almost never see divines in relequin, siroria, mothers sorrow or any desired dps set really anymore.

Yes we have the transmute system thank God but it's heavily gated by the drop rates in pve.

therift

Kanar wrote: »

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

Computers cannot natively generate a random number. They can pull from a table of preset numbers, they can run an algorithm to generate a pseudorandom number, but neither method is statistically random nor unpredictable.

I believe many coders have too little appreciation for this fact and rely too much on the processing horsepower that can be brought to bear on generating pseudorandom numbers, thinking that a wide range of possible results will cloud the fact that natively generated random numbers from an alogrithm are will eventually reveal a pattern and skew.

Unless Zenimax's servers have an outside source for generating numbers - perhaps an anemometer to collect variations in wind gusts, or a source of radioactive decay - you can safely assume 'rng' is not random at all.

ImmortalCX

Katahdin wrote: »

Nope
Almost never see divines in relequin, siroria, mothers sorrow or any desired dps set really anymore.

Yes we have the transmute system thank God but it's heavily gated by the drop rates in pve.

Thats interesting.

Whenever I have tried to farm a medium set from vet dungeons, I get + divines traits in short order, making it very easy to farm the mid-tier sets.

I wonder if top-tier sets are gated by poorly weighted rng?

Transmute system is great, but unless someone is running a ton of alts through pvp campaigns, they are going to be short crystals most of the time.

iiYuki

Maikon wrote: »

ImmortalCX wrote: »

I've noticed that set piece drops don't seem to represent all eight possible traits for a particular set. When I'm farming a set, I keep getting duplicates of one of several repeating traits.

What I'm not sure about is if all traits for a particular sets/pieces are even represented in the drop table? For instance is the chance of getting a Sunderflame (heavy) w/ divines > 0%? Are the traits of heavy sets weighted towards tanking traits? And are the traits for light/medium pieces weighted towards dps or utility traits?

Those who have been farming gear sets longer than I, will have a better perspective on the RNG of traits. IMO, it seems like sets are heavily weighted towards a few repeating traits. Its not yet clear to me if you can get any piece in any trait, and if so, what is the %chance.

Most people don't care about trait drops anymore since they can just transmute them.

If you don't PvP, trials, or only have 1 character getting transmute crystals is a pain in the ass. I personally re-farm sets and save crystals for monster sets or jewellery.

zaria

Kanar wrote: »

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

+10 spell power cure bows and one restoration staff
Have an feeling some weapons are supressed. Traits are not as important with transmute.

zaria

therift wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

1. Any unique named piece will always have the same trait
2. There is no way for us to know if/how traits are weighted.

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

Computers cannot natively generate a random number. They can pull from a table of preset numbers, they can run an algorithm to generate a pseudorandom number, but neither method is statistically random nor unpredictable.

I believe many coders have too little appreciation for this fact and rely too much on the processing horsepower that can be brought to bear on generating pseudorandom numbers, thinking that a wide range of possible results will cloud the fact that natively generated random numbers from an alogrithm are will eventually reveal a pattern and skew.

Unless Zenimax's servers have an outside source for generating numbers - perhaps an anemometer to collect variations in wind gusts, or a source of radioactive decay - you can safely assume 'rng' is not random at all.

No rng generators are not perfect, however this is just relevant if you generate an map from rng and stuff like that.
Remember the server does 100 of rng calls every seconds, all attacks has to be checked for critical hit, all the loot from drops, nodes or deconstuct and so on. so drops in an dungeon is perfect random because its unknown how many calls happens every second.

starkerealm

SirAndy wrote: »

ESO rng has always been heavily weighted. You can see this in pretty much anything that is rng based in this game.

So yes, drops are not fully random, as mentioned above, they are weighted ...

That said, the weighting appears to be per account. If I had to guess, some piece of persistent part of your account record is used to generate your RNG seeds. So, as a result, it'll be streaky for individual players, but the aggregate data ends up being fairly uniform.

Just because you never see Divine Sunderflame doesn't mean that no one does.

Also, you'll never see Sunderflame in heavy, full stop. That's a medium armor set, and doesn't exist in Light or Heavy. If you want it for a tank, you can run the jewelry and weapons, including shields.

zaria

ImmortalCX wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

It is my belief that due to either buggy implementation, non-random random number generator, or deliberate tampering, drops are not fully random.

I agree. This is good and bad.

Whenever I've tried to farm a med/divines set, I usually have 2-3 armor divines, full jewelry, and at least one set weapon within five runs. It seems much easier to farm a rudimentary five piece set in a good trait than it should be.

OTH, it seems more difficult (maybe impossible?) to farm heavy armor set with dps traits.

Heavy dps sounds like pvp, most pvp players has so much transmute stones they transmute weapons to nirnhoned and sell for other to research or deconstruct for stones.

starkerealm

bearbelly wrote: »

Noob question:

Do the effects of the same trait in multiple pieces of a set stack?

You mean, like Divines? Yes.

If you have two pieces of divines, both will increase your Mundus Stone bonus.

If you mean the set bonuses themselves? Not really, but kinda.

Things like Increase Max Stamina or Increase Magicka regen will look at each piece of that set equipped, and average the values. So, if you have a Green level 10 Werewolf Hide piece equipped, and a Purple level 12 equipped, it will compare what the two pieces say they'll give you for Max Health, and then give you the average between the two.

So, you don't get both max health bonuses; just one for having two pieces equipped.

zaria

bearbelly wrote: »

Noob question:

Do the effects of the same trait in multiple pieces of a set stack?

Yes as in two divine parts will both give the divine bonus same with all the others. for dps or healer you want divine on armor, infused is also good on large pieces, For PvP impenetrable is nice as it protect against critical strikes but that is useless in pve. Training is probably the best up to cp160. Tanks tend to use sturdy on small pieces and robust or infused on large.
Infused is currently best for weapons unless below cp160,