What does it take to be a tank?

Daran_Cousland

I mean besides a group of people willing to put their lives in my hands? Do I need to know all the fights or can I just wing it?

I've got a character geared and ready to tank dungeons but I've hesitated because in my experience with other MMOs I've learned players can be pretty impatient with tanks who are trying to learn the ropes. Unkind, even.

EDIT: I'm not asking about class/build/gear.

EDIT again: *sigh* the specific question I'm asking is this: are players supportive of new tanks? If I need to take my time are players going to bail on my group?

testd4n1

A petsorc pre shield nerf with hardened ward and a taunt.

Daran_Cousland

I'm not asking about class/build/gear, btw.

Ramber

Use sword and board, use pierce armor to taunt and debuff bosses and as many ads as u can. with harder bosses you will need to be able to hold block and taunt every 5 secs or so to keep up the debuff.. there are specific armors and enchants you will need to look up a current build online and practice in some normal dngns... you will have to learn it and that takes practice, the mechanics will come in time or you can look them up as well.

HOPE that helps some

testd4n1

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

I'm not asking about class/build/gear, btw.

I know. I just tank Vet HM (non DLC) 4 mans on my DPS PetSorc cus people say its not possible.


Generally, hold the boss still and block any telegraphed abilities.

VaranisArano

A basic tank taunts the boss, holds boss aggro, and stays alive.

A good tank taunts the boss, holds boss aggro, stays alive, taunts priority and hard hitting adds, keeps the boss more or less still in the DDs' AOEs and facing away from the group, crowd controls mobs, buffs the group, debuffs the boss, and follows mechanics like blocking, bashing, interrupting.

testd4n1

VaranisArano wrote: »

A basic tank taunts the boss, holds boss aggro, and stays alive.

A good tank taunts the boss, holds boss aggro, stays alive, taunts priority and hard hitting adds, keeps the boss more or less still in the DDs' AOEs and facing away from the group, crowd controls mobs, buffs the group, debuffs the boss, and follows mechanics like blocking, bashing, interrupting.

^^^ -> He's right. Contrary to what some people think, being a good tank does take skill. Join a guild and I'm sure some of the tanks there would be happy to help you out.

Daran_Cousland

A lot of good advice to be sure, but like any skill it needs to be put into practice to learn it effectively. What I'm asking is what is it like getting started as a new tank? Am I going to get the chance to practice without players rage quitting because I'm not going at a pace they're used to?

AcadianPaladin

People are unpredictable. I'd like to think if you started in normal (non-DLC) dungeons and said up front something like 'new tank plz be patient' most groups would be supportive - especially since real tanks are in such demand in group dungeons. That said, I was nervous with the same concerns as you when I started tanking. My solution was basically to avoid that situation by getting reasonably proficient before ever queuing into a group dungeon. Here are some of the things I did to get ready:

Tank world bosses (when there are a few others around to provide your dps). Start with single bosses and get comfortable grabbing, turning and holding. Then try some WBs that are duos where you have to grab and hold two. Finally, try some of the WBs that are trios. When you can grab and hold 3 bosses you are getting pretty good.

I also did dolmens - mostly for the unpredictable hectic large groups of mobs to practice pulling in adds.

Then, I ran easy normal group dungeons on my non tanks to learn the mechanincs of a few dungeons. You Tube vids can help some here.

I did have the advantage of a couple friends that I could duo up with for public dungeons to practice things with another player to provide feedback and supply some dps.

Finally, I started with some easy dungeons (Fungal Grotto I is great) and normal pugs. By that time, my tank was a full blown classic DK main tank with maxed CP. I found he was very much up to the challenge. Just remember that in large fights, you don't have the stam/mag to pull in all adds. The priority is (while staying alive of course) grab, turn and hold the boss. Then, as you can, lock down nearby foes and pull others into your boss-centered 'killing zone' so your dps can safely burn them down with AoE damage.

Edit: Ideally, you want to lead and set the pace - no problem asking to do that at the beginning. Problem is too many pugs have 'race ahead' damage dealers that charge ahead creating messes instead of letting the tank get and maintain initial control of big fights. That is part of pugs and why so many tanks won't pug.

VaranisArano

Daran_Cousland wrote: »

A lot of good advice to be sure, but like any skill it needs to be put into practice to learn it effectively. What I'm asking is what is it like getting started as a new tank? Am I going to get the chance to practice without players rage quitting because I'm not going at a pace they're used to?

So I started by tanking for IRL friends, which was awesome.

The next easiest method will be to tank for guildmates.

If you tank for randoms, it will probably be okay. Here's how I handle it common occurrences.

1. Your group will either expect the tank to lead or will race past you.

If you get the lead, its simple. AOE the mobs to get aggro, crowd control them and taunt priority adds. For boss, use your taunt. There may be mechanics which you can learn through trial and error, asking your teammates, or google.

If they race past you, I tend towards the philosophy of "If you aggro it, you can tank it until I get there, and I'm not rushing."


2. Your group will likely be happy to get an actual tank who will taunt the boss and stay alive. Fake tanks tend to be pretty annoying because having someone reliably take boss aggro makes the fights easier to manage. Best thing you can do is hold the boss more or less still in the AOEs.

If a group isn't happy, you are a tank. It'll take like 30 seconds for you to queue for a new group.

Anyways, its totally worth it for those groups when you go "Thank god I'm a real tank" as you rez all three other members of your group who died during the Engine Guardian's poison phase on their first run of Darkshade 2. Or you stand and take it while your group of newbies learns how to deal with the mechanics so they can slowly burn the boss.


3. Don't be afraid to ask about a mechanic. Most players are happy to explain mechanics if asked, especially if you say you are learning to tank. We like good tanks and want to help you learn! Normal dungeons are pretty forgiving up until the DLC dungeons, where you have to follow the mechanics. Veteran dungeons are the same mechanics, except more unforgiving and with more one-shots. So some of the learning process for me transitioning to Vet dungeons was learning what actually could and couldn't kill me.

If you want to make sure you know the mechanics beforehand, I recommend player guides or YouTube.


So I'd say "Jump in Groupfinder and give it a try." You'll probably meet some jerks, and it'll be a learning curve, but tanking for random groups can be a real blast.

Daran_Cousland

excellent advice, thank you

RebornV3x

simple answer don't die and if your wanna go the extra mile face boss or mobs away from other group mates

gear for tanks isn't really that important yes sure there are one or two must have sets but generally nobody questions your gear choice unless you die a lot

TheCyberDruid

As long as you taunt and have some decent health/resistance you should be good. Go for normal dungeons/trials first and learn them.

Spark

Start with easier content and gradually increase the difficulty. Mainly to get the required confidence, although the experience will help too! Usually it doesn't matter if you don't know the specific fights, as long as you pay attention and know the general mechanics (block heavy attacks, interrupt boss when the red line tell happens, keep boss in the dps' aoe, avoid red tells on ground when convenient or necessary). If people give you a hard time even if you tell them you're just learning, then that's their problem IMO.

ETA: Actually thought of one thing - there are some mechanics that are harder to figure out by just winging it. These are exceptions. There are a handful of bosses that can not be taunted or situations where you should taunt the adds, not the boss (eg. final boss in AA). If you are alert to this, you will figure it out.

zaria

I just made an tank, created an new character some time before the event.
Made some heavy armor sword and shield and started doing dungeons.
Found it was better being an low level than cp810 then you had no idea that you was doing.

Main difficulty is that mechanics matter far more and its plenty of it dd and healer don't have to think about.

BejaProphet

@Daran_Cousland in my signature is a link to a guide I wrote on dungeon tanking. It is a long read but might give you the help you are looking for.

kylewwefan

To tank you must keep your health points more higher than your adversaries.

You must prevent priority mobs from whooping the snot out of your teammates. (2H mobs, bigger than normal mobs, Archers with red hands etc)

You must hold aggro from the boss and position him so he does not kill your team. Hold him still in all the AOE damage and ultimates your team is putting out.

You must learn to interrupt bosses from their bizarre attacks when possible.

You will eventually learn every single mechanic of every dungeon and trial as this is your job.

Sometimes a teammate will die. Someone should res them. It’s ok for you to perform this task sometimes.

You can “kite” mobs and bosses around. You don’t always have to block when kiting, but maybe sometimes you will. Kiting is moving boss or mob in big circles keeping them moving. Damage dealers hate this because you move the boss out of their AOE and ultimates.

When learning, hold block. A lot. All the time. Use puncture, pierce armor, inner fire, inner rage etc...to get the boss/mob attention and they attack you instead of someone else. Don’t forget to hold block.

If you press attack while you hold block, this is known as bashing. Bashing is an interrupt. You will stop the boss from what they were doing and set them off balance maybe. Very important to interrupt.

If you heavy attack boss while they are interrupted or off balance, you get a lot of more resources back.

Nestor

Some bosses wont stand still. Either they have an attack that randomly sends them in direction or the other or they flat out ignore taunt. For those fights, have a gap closer slotted and chase them around. You can still debuff them and or face them away from the party. Also, if you face a boss towards the wall, they tend to run in to it....lol. Bone Collosus in Crypt of Hearts is one example.

Some bosses will jump away to do an attack, then come back to you. Let the boss do all the moving around for that. I am thinking the second boss in the second wave in Blessed Crucible.

Anyway, learn the boss mechanics so you can help the group.

Crowd Control is another lost art. With adds, either chain them towards you, or use Talons to root them.

As for Bashing, have yet to meet a boss I could not interrupt. Maybe they exist. Anyway, you can dramtically reduce the damage a boss puts out with interupts.

Learn the pre cues the boss makes before they unleash their big skills. Call out Block or Roll Dodge or Purge or what ever is needed.

Since you should be all up in the grill of the boss, the pyrotechnics can make it harder to see the Red danger zones. Use the game options to make the AoE indicator Pepto Bismal Pink. It really helps to see it in the middle of everything.

GimpyPorcupine

A good overland boss to practice on is Wreck of the Raptor on the west coast of Auridon. Lots of adds to deal with also. Head there and try to taunt everything. Keep the boss on you, CC the adds to make space when you need breathing room. It's going to be a long fight if no randoms show up, but think of that as a chance to judge your sustain.

As far as pugging dungeons, you just have to be clear. For example, last night I was pugging vArx, and the Sorc DD kept running ahead between pulls. I just asked if he could stay behind me so my Leeching Vines was guaranteed to land on me, and after that he did. Most of the players are actually cooperative.

One other suggestion I'd make is to make friends with a healer. That way the two of you can discuss, as a sidebar, the amount of support you need, and you can wean yourself.

I was just helping a guildie out who wanted to try tanking. I didn't agree with his setup (Armor Master/Plague Doctor/Earthgore) but he said it was a "safe" set while he figures things out. Can't fault him for that.

AcadianPaladin

Short Tusk, the kagouti WB in western Deeshan is a good trainer for block/bash. He telegraphs his heavy and magic attacks well, giving you a great workout for bash and block. If you miss a bash or block, he can hurt you so it is a good trainer. If not in a hurry, my DK tank can reliably kill the boss and feels like he got a good half hour workout.

Vermethys

I think it's very important for the tank to learn every mechanic of every boss fight, because things tend to fall into chaos once the tank dies in harder content (like vet DLC dungeons). My main char is a tank, and the one I play the most, but before tanking any new content I join a group as a DD and try to learn what the tank is doing so I can later go in with a solid base and not waste my group's time by learning on the spot. However this does not matter at all with non-DLC dungeons.

If you are new to tanking, I highly recommend going with a DK -- because it is the easiest tank to play imo (I've tried Warden, Sorc, and Templar tanks). Generally, you have to chain in all trash mobs and form a circle of enemies around you so that your DDs can kill them easily. Prioritize taunting the heavy-hitting ones (which are usually larger in size) and face them away from the rest of your group. Of course, try your best to keep the group of mobs immobilized for as long as you can with abilities such as Choking Talons or Gripping Shards. Bash whenever a mob is charging an ability (the red glow) and block/dodge heavy attacks (yellow glow).

Tanking bosses can be different depending on the dungeon/trial. Basically keep the boss taunted, debuffed, and still for as long as possible (sometimes you are forced to keep moving like in vet Fang Lair HM). Keep them facing away from your group because many bosses have cone/cleave AOE attacks. Trust me, it is often easier than it sounds; as long as you can do those things, no group is going to be unsupportive of you.

For me, most of the time tanking feels like a game of managing resources -- because most of what you are doing in dungeons is keeping the boss' attention on you while debuffing it, and waiting for the DDs to finish it off as fast as possible.

One more thing, don't wing DLC dungeons or trials -- it can be rather embarrassing

Mr_Walker

Well, you're always going to pretty much wing it the first time you do content.

It'll probably be like the first time you made love... hesitant, embarassing, disappointing, and over with quite quickly.

zaria

vermillion2077 wrote: »

I think it's very important for the tank to learn every mechanic of every boss fight, because things tend to fall into chaos once the tank dies in harder content (like vet DLC dungeons). My main char is a tank, and the one I play the most, but before tanking any new content I join a group as a DD and try to learn what the tank is doing so I can later go in with a solid base and not waste my group's time by learning on the spot. However this does not matter at all with non-DLC dungeons.

If you are new to tanking, I highly recommend going with a DK -- because it is the easiest tank to play imo (I've tried Warden, Sorc, and Templar tanks). Generally, you have to chain in all trash mobs and form a circle of enemies around you so that your DDs can kill them easily. Prioritize taunting the heavy-hitting ones (which are usually larger in size) and face them away from the rest of your group. Of course, try your best to keep the group of mobs immobilized for as long as you can with abilities such as Choking Talons or Gripping Shards. Bash whenever a mob is charging an ability (the red glow) and block/dodge heavy attacks (yellow glow).

Tanking bosses can be different depending on the dungeon/trial. Basically keep the boss taunted, debuffed, and still for as long as possible (sometimes you are forced to keep moving like in vet Fang Lair HM). Keep them facing away from your group because many bosses have cone/cleave AOE attacks. Trust me, it is often easier than it sounds; as long as you can do those things, no group is going to be unsupportive of you.

For me, most of the time tanking feels like a game of managing resources -- because most of what you are doing in dungeons is keeping the boss' attention on you while debuffing it, and waiting for the DDs to finish it off as fast as possible.

One more thing, don't wing DLC dungeons or trials -- it can be rather embarrassing

Yes, learn mechanics https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-rM-3hfqAOSLSP3w_W57Iw Xynode all about mechanic is highly recommended, even so you get into issues. Trying an tank for the first time and feels it going well up to vet Selene yesterday I was killed over and over on last boss as its was some mechanic i did not get.
Has healer and DD it multiple times but tank has to handle other mecanics.

Tucker3711

It takes guts and a whole lot of foul language... (Tank dies everyone dies)

Mancombe_Nosehair

Try the world boss by the docks in glenumbra. He tends to chase everyone around if no one tanks him, so they will be quite relieved to have a tank there.

His attacks are good to learn how to block and prevent too.

Mancombe_Nosehair

There's another by the middle dolmen in Deshaan too.