Swapping weapons - DoTs

preevious

Hello, everyone..

In another thread, a fellow player told me something interresting .. but since his approach was empirical, he wasn't sure.
Since it might do a difference in certain buildI figured I'd ask.

Let's say I use volatile familiar's pulse ability (DoT).
Then, I swap weapons .. on my ohter skill bar, I have both inner light and bound aegis slotted, wich will give me a fait bit more magicka.
Will the already placed dots increase in power, or was their strenght determined on cast?

Thanks !

getemshauna

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

MashmalloMan

getemshauna wrote: »

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

I thought they fixed single target dots awhile back to update with weapon swapping too.

preevious

Well, that's perfect, thanks !

Kanar

Marshall1289 wrote: »

getemshauna wrote: »

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

I thought they broke single target dots awhile back to update with weapon swapping too.

Not pre-murkmire. And I don't think they changed it in murkmire either.

TheYKcid

Marshall1289 wrote: »

getemshauna wrote: »

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

I thought they fixed single target dots awhile back to update with weapon swapping too.

Nope, poison inject is the only single-target DoT that updates stats every tick. This change was made during Morrowind to enable its execute behaviour to function properly.

Aside from this exception, single target DoTs save your stats (max resource and wep/spell damage) from the moment of impact, while ground-based AoE DoTs update per-tick.

Crit % change and CHD modifier is always updated in both cases.

Penetration is always saved upon impact in both cases.

EDIT: Please ignore all the struck-through text—it was outdated info as some posters below pointed-out. I've since retested these mechanics and my results are in a subsequent post further down.

Emma_Overload

What about Charged trait? Does it need to be on the bar you cast Blockade from or should it be on your main bar?

GaunterODim

One thing that does increase the damage is having the weapon you swap to be a sword. If you have for example 2 axes dw on your backbar, cast rending and then swap to a greatsword, the damage would increase.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Emma_Overload wrote: »

What about Charged trait? Does it need to be on the bar you cast Blockade from or should it be on your main bar?

Charged does not carry over. The only trait that does is infused, one of the reasons it is so powerful.

Kanar

TheYKcid wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

getemshauna wrote: »

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

I thought they fixed single target dots awhile back to update with weapon swapping too.

Nope, poison inject is the only single-target DoT that updates stats every tick. This change was made during Morrowind to enable its execute behaviour to function properly.

Aside from this exception, single target DoTs save your stats (max resource and wep/spell damage) from the moment of impact, while ground-based AoE DoTs update per-tick.

Crit % change and CHD modifier is always updated in both cases.

Penetration is always saved upon impact in both cases.

They actually stealth fixed PI, maybe it was in wolfhunter? It was in the patch where they fixed it from consuming vMA buff. It now works like all ST dots, saving the stats from the bar it was fired from.

GaunterODim

Back in the day sharpened carried over too, has that changed?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Kanar wrote: »

TheYKcid wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

getemshauna wrote: »

Ground dots' damage (Elemental Blockade, Twisting Path, Caltrops, etc.) is updated by every tick of your stats and damage modifiers, but single target dots(Poison Injection, Venemous Claw, Cripple) copy your stats from the moment you casted it and deals certain, unchangeable anymore damage over full duration.

I thought they fixed single target dots awhile back to update with weapon swapping too.

Nope, poison inject is the only single-target DoT that updates stats every tick. This change was made during Morrowind to enable its execute behaviour to function properly.

Aside from this exception, single target DoTs save your stats (max resource and wep/spell damage) from the moment of impact, while ground-based AoE DoTs update per-tick.

Crit % change and CHD modifier is always updated in both cases.

Penetration is always saved upon impact in both cases.

They actually stealth fixed PI, maybe it was in wolfhunter? It was in the patch where they fixed it from consuming vMA buff. It now works like all ST dots, saving the stats from the bar it was fired from.

can confirm this, would like to have official stuff say this.

TheYKcid

@Kanar @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Thanks for pointing this out. I just re-tested the old info I posted and realised I was wrong.

You guys were correct—PI now saves stats from the impact bar—although the old workaround of doing a swapcancel to your mainbar before the projectile hits is still valid (since your mainbar becomes the impact bar)

Interestingly (and another point on which I was outdated), ZOS has also made a general change to the interaction of penetration with DoTs/barswaps. Both sticky AND ground-based DoTs now update on each tick (previously neither did), and this applies to both personal penetration (tested with Spriggan's & Sharpened trait) as well as penetration debuffs (tested with major frac).

I have no idea when they slipped this in either—possibly the same time they patched PI? Would appreciate any info.

CHD modifier remains unchanged, and updates per tick like it used to. I haven't tested crit chance, but for now I'm willing to assume it's tied to CHD and hasn't changed either.

I wish ZOS would mention tweaks like this in the patch notes. They're pretty groundbreaking from a mechanics standpoint...

FrancisCrawford

Do pulsing AoE DoTs like Lightning Form, Volatile Familiar, Deadly Cloak, Solar Barrage et al. work like ground-based DoTs or single-target ones?

And do HoTs work like DoTs?

TheYKcid

@FrancisCrawford

PBAoEs behave like ground-based DoTs. Just tested with Boundless and Bladecloak.

HoTs worked like DoTs in previous patches, following the same distinctions between sticky vs. ground-based. I'm not planning to test if that's changed, but go ahead if you're interested. I'd be keen to find out.

Emma_Overload

One more question for the experts, if you don't mind:

Since Infused on the back bar "sticks" to the ground dot even after you bar swap to a non-infused front bar, does this mean you can back-bar Torug's Pact? Does Torug's stick to the ground dot even if you swap to a front bar that doesn't have the Torug's five piece bonus?

twofaced

Emma_Overload wrote: »

One more question for the experts, if you don't mind:

Since Infused on the back bar "sticks" to the ground dot even after you bar swap to a non-infused front bar, does this mean you can back-bar Torug's Pact? Does Torug's stick to the ground dot even if you swap to a front bar that doesn't have the Torug's five piece bonus?

nope, I tested it