Sorc pets are outdated and need to be revised.

usmcjdking

I am of the opinion that sorc pets are extremely outdated with the new changes to pet invulnerability duality and pet sorc just being ridiculously simple solo. Magsorc pet builds are the DW torugs of PVE and uninteresting.

I suggest removing ALL pets from a toggle system, make them completely invulnerable, remove their cast time and have them work as follows:

Unstable Familiar:

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to ravage your enemy for 8 seconds. The familiar deals damage once every 2 seconds to enemies near him. Pet despawns after the last pulse. (Cannot be cast until duration is over)

Volatile Familiar:

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to ravage your enemy for 8 seconds. The familiar deals damage once every 2 seconds to enemies near him. The final pulse does double the damage and stuns enemies in it's proximity. Pet blows up ala old familiar. This can be activated at any time (no cost) during it's duration to immediately do it's final pulse.

Unstable Clannfear:

Command the powers of Oblivion to send a daedric clannfear to assault your enemy for 8 seconds. The clannfear immediately heals you for 35% of your maximum HP on cast. The clannfear taunts on attacks (lowest taunt priority), and applies minor maim to the target. Can activate the skill again (no cost) to cause the clannfear to tail swipe, snaring opponents by 70% for 3 seconds, inflicting major maim for 3 seconds and despawning immediately after. Lasts 8 seconds.

Summon Winged Twilight

Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to ravage your enemy for 8 seconds. The winged twilight’s attacks deals X Shock Damage. Heals you for 12,000 (2.5k sp dmg, 35k mag) amount of health over 8 seconds. Lasts 8 seconds.

Summon Twilight Tormentor

Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to ravage your enemy for 8 seconds. The winged twilight’s attacks deals 1.5x Shock Damage. Heals you for 12,000 (2.5k sp dmg, 35k mag) amount of health over 8 seconds. The Tormentor's attacks inflict Minor Invulnerability on the target. Lasts 8 seconds.

Summon Twilight Matriach

Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to ravage your enemy for 8 seconds. The winged twilight’s attacks deals X Shock Damage. Heals you for 12,000 (2.5k sp/wp dmg, 35k stam/mag) amount of health over 8 seconds. Friendly units that drop below 50% health will also receive the healing. This skill can be activated again (no cost) during the summon to burst heal up to 3 targets for the tooltip HOT and despawning immediately after. Lasts 8 seconds.

The concept is to a) provide mag sorc some more buffs/debuffs, b) clear up *** barspace, c) have a bit more utility options available to it to make it a more comprehensive class and d) remove petsorc overland/vma/duel bodyblock cheese.

courtesy of @gibous

usmcjdking

For those not fully understanding how this is intended to work -

Think of it more like Warden Bed-of-Pinky-Fluffy-***-and-Flowers-Skill-That-Somehow-Defiles wherein the first cast (which has cost) is more of a primer and the active cast during it's duration (which has no cost) is the burst heal/effect.

gibous

Some of the original points I discussed with OP which contributed to his specific ideas:

1. Definition needs to be brought to the question of what a pet is. Currently, pets include the sorc skills as well as other non-targetable entities such as NB shade, Warden netch, and the Shadowrend proc. These invulnerable, non-targetable "pets" should not have the same classification as targetable pets that require double barring and can be killed.
2. Double-barring is a vestigial game mechanic. Magelight and bound armaments have already been made more usable by removing their double-bar requirements. Pets need to be brought in line with those changes by making them single-bar skills.

The RP element of pets, I get it, there are some people that really love that. It can be retained - but functionally, pets are an opportunity for sorc to gain both effective damage and healing over time as skills that have pet graphics.

Look at the betty netch. It's not really a pet, it's just a buff skill that has graphic representation. Converting sorc pets over to this type of format would suddenly make the Rebate passive (gain magicka on pet despawn) relevant, as well as Expert Summoner (8% max health with pet up.) This would be consistent with the Warden's animal companions passive Bond With Nature.

Also on Warden - I'm sure a lot of people that play the class would love to run the bear if it worked like sorc's Atronach. But it requires double-barring, which limits builds and is a deal-breaker for most players who want to use all 10 skill slots.

AcadianPaladin

Please, no. I'm totally sick of short durations. More 8 second skills to further enslave players to a mechanical rotation? No thanks. What is so unique about pets is that they do last and you have to manage them. For those who want to micromanage a complex rotation, may I suggest a nightblade instead of a sorc?

usmcjdking

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Please, no. I'm totally sick of short durations. More 8 second skills to further enslave players to a mechanical rotation? No thanks. What is so unique about pets is that they do last and you have to manage them. For those who want to micromanage a complex rotation, may I suggest a nightblade instead of a sorc?

Twilight is either on a 6 second rotation if using tormentor or no rotation if using matriarch. Scamp is on 6 second rotation. Clannfear is on no rotation. The only rotation increase you will see is if you use either Matriarch or Clannfear, in which case both have been significantly buffed in my iterations to support added complexity.

I'm not seeing your argument anywhere in relevancy.

BretonMage

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Please, no. I'm totally sick of short durations. More 8 second skills to further enslave players to a mechanical rotation? No thanks. What is so unique about pets is that they do last and you have to manage them. For those who want to micromanage a complex rotation, may I suggest a nightblade instead of a sorc?

Agree with this.

usmcjdking

The argument about cooldowns is nonsensical. Tormentor & Scamp have a shorter durations as is on live making it more intensive. Both do about nil damage when their active isn't pumping.

The duration is being increased on both in favor of being able to be single barred and not being a permanent summon. Did I fail to explain this comprehensively enough?

lokulin

You'd also potentially need to rework the passive that increases health with a pet summoned.

While the addition of the HoT is nice you've now removed the burst heal from the matriarch which was good for sorc healer setups.

Personally, I like the current way they work and didn't mind the space they took up till they changed the way shields worked. Made the pet sorc play style unique from the rest of the classes. If you don't like the "simplicity" of the pet sorc play a different class or setup. It isn't like the pet sorc is the highest damage setup you can get.

usmcjdking

lokulin wrote: »

You'd also potentially need to rework the passive that increases health with a pet summoned.

While the addition of the HoT is nice you've now removed the burst heal from the matriarch which was good for sorc healer setups.

Personally, I like the current way they work and didn't mind the space they took up till they changed the way shields worked. Made the pet sorc play style unique from the rest of the classes. If you don't like the "simplicity" of the pet sorc play a different class or setup. It isn't like the pet sorc is the highest damage setup you can get.

Good feedback. I haven't removed the sorc burst heal entirely though; I have made it a double cast required (akin to budding seeds or whatever) which I think is a fairly strong tradeoff for the additional healing target, greater healing capacity and HOT.

Anotherone773

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Please, no. I'm totally sick of short durations. More 8 second skills to further enslave players to a mechanical rotation? No thanks. What is so unique about pets is that they do last and you have to manage them. For those who want to micromanage a complex rotation, may I suggest a nightblade instead of a sorc?

I agree, this game already has enough complexity for the sake of complexity and that serves no purpose other than to not be WoW. I dont want to micromanage a bunch of skills thats feels like a job and this game feels very job like sometimes already.

GreenHere

I like this idea for the simple fact that I wouldn't have to see the annoying purple ****s flapping and flopping all over the damn place when every fourth player goes by.

If there was an option to make other people's combat pets partially or totally invisible, I'd turn it on with all the vigor and zeal a simple toggle could handle.

This is the next best thing, and you have my vote for that reason alone! :P

Vahrokh

I play pet sorc since 4 years and I am exactly fine as is. I don't like having to double bar them, but if the price for 1 barring them is to have yet another dumb cooldown in my throat, I prefer double bars.

"Pet sorc" without pets... bah!

SirLeeMinion

usmcjdking wrote: »

I suggest removing ALL pets from a toggle system, make them completely invulnerable, remove their cast time and have them work as follows...

Thank you for putting so much time and thought into this, but no thank you to the proposed changes. There are good thoughts in there, but the permanence of the pets is what makes a pet-sorc.

usmcjdking wrote: »

The duration is being increased on both in favor of being able to be single barred and not being a permanent summon. Did I fail to explain this comprehensively enough?

Nope; we just disagree.

lokulin wrote: »

Personally, I like the current way they work and didn't mind the space they took up till they changed the way shields worked. Made the pet sorc play style unique from the rest of the classes. If you don't like the "simplicity" of the pet sorc play a different class or setup. It isn't like the pet sorc is the highest damage setup you can get.

Agreed. Overload changes plus shield changes have made the bars cramped.

GreenHere wrote: »

I like this idea for the simple fact that I wouldn't have to see the annoying purple ****s flapping and flopping all over the damn place when every fourth player goes by.

If there was an option to make other people's combat pets partially or totally invisible, I'd turn it on with all the vigor and zeal a simple toggle could handle.

The flapping wings are super-annoying, both when running pet-sorc and when one is in the area. If there were a UI toggle to make them mostly transparent (like boundless storm does to the player, maybe), if they could have an optional model change to be smaller, or just hover similar to a flame pixie, or even to something that would run on the ground with no flapping, I'd use it in a heartbeat. I'd spend crowns to substitute a non-combat pet model for Ms. Flappy.

Gundug

I have used a pet sorcerer for years, and find the pets annoying. Their combat AI is poor, often requiring micromanagement to ensure they attack the correct target. Using heavy attacks on enemies, I will often see the scamp bouncing from here to there like a ping pong ball as it chases my current target, then immediately runs off to chase another across the room as the first one dies. They also have difficulty at time following from place to place in combat, often getting stuck way behind the actual fighting as they battle a single trash mob in another area.

This, combined with the irritation of seeing them all the time, especially the twilight constantly flapping, makes me support an instant cast system. I would rather have full control over when and where they appear, like the atronach. I fail to see how this would overcomplicate the simple pet sorcerer rotation, as you already have to maintain their active damage skills for them to do any significant damage, and I could definitely find use for the extra bar slots.

lokulin

Gundug wrote: »

I have used a pet sorcerer for years, and find the pets annoying. Their combat AI is poor, often requiring micromanagement to ensure they attack the correct target. Using heavy attacks on enemies, I will often see the scamp bouncing from here to there like a ping pong ball as it chases my current target, then immediately runs off to chase another across the room as the first one dies. They also have difficulty at time following from place to place in combat, often getting stuck way behind the actual fighting as they battle a single trash mob in another area.

This, combined with the irritation of seeing them all the time, especially the twilight constantly flapping, makes me support an instant cast system. I would rather have full control over when and where they appear, like the atronach. I fail to see how this would overcomplicate the simple pet sorcerer rotation, as you already have to maintain their active damage skills for them to do any significant damage, and I could definitely find use for the extra bar slots.

The main thing I don't like about the instant cast idea is the sorc feeling too much like the warden. It is nice having different class identities with different tradeoffs.