Argonians are Asexual Seahorses?

starkerealm

Silver_Strider wrote: »

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Still can't figure out why the "females" have mammaries...

Lore wise, its so they can pass on Hist Sap to their children in the event a Hist Tree is not present to do so.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

max_only wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

If Argonians can change genders than what does that make Molag?

Edit: auto correct

He isn’t an Argonian...

It was a brief, simple question I asked and it wasn’t about the race at all.

Reistr_the_Unbroken

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

If Argonians can change genders than what does that make Molag?

Edit: auto correct

I didn't think Molag or many of the Daedra even had genders. They have favored forms, and those have genders, but they can take on any form they wish.

Somehow I missed this but thank you for answering.

Luigi_Vampa

Reistr_the_Unbroken wrote: »

If Argonians can change genders than what does that make Molag?

Edit: auto correct

The deadric princes don't have genders.

firedrgn

ChrisToTheCanvas wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

I think frogs irl are able to shift between male and female depending on conditions even without magic trees. Some of those Argoanians definitely look more amphibian than reptilian in Murkmire’s Dead-Water area

neat stuff

i must have missed that lesson in biology tho

Jurassic park .. i get all my info from movies and snapple lids.

starkerealm

firedrgn wrote: »

ChrisToTheCanvas wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

I think frogs irl are able to shift between male and female depending on conditions even without magic trees. Some of those Argoanians definitely look more amphibian than reptilian in Murkmire’s Dead-Water area

neat stuff

i must have missed that lesson in biology tho

Jurassic park .. i get all my info from movies and snapple lids.

In this case, you're not wrong. Not right, either. There are a few species of tree frogs that can change their sex, if the population is distorted. Also some fish species I think. So, some frogs, but not all frogs.

Banana

TheShadowScout

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

Krymzonbladez

Don't forget they can also change into other reptiles, like that old Argonian adventurer in stormhaven that can be changed into a crocodile.

Aristocles22

Krymzonbladez wrote: »

Don't forget they can also change into other reptiles, like that old Argonian adventurer in stormhaven that can be changed into a crocodile.

Yeah, that was a weird quest. I don't think that transformation was specific to Argonians, though.

Kiralyn2000

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Still can't figure out why the "females" have mammaries...

BigBragg wrote: »

This is also something that has bothered and baffled me for the longest time.

Because the game is made by and for humans, and giving 'female' characters typical human-pattern curves is the quickest/easiest way to make them read as 'female' to the pattern-recognition routines in human brains.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NonMammalMammaries

Aristocles22

The Argonians with mammaries are female; they are clearly the ones who lay the eggs. Even that quest in Stonefalls has a female's eggs as set of quest-specific items. Unfertilized, I assume. Like a hen who hasn't seen a rooster can still lay eggs, without chicks in them. What this means for female Argonians is best left unanswered, lest they keep getting "pregnant" every few months even without seeing a male.

Luigi_Vampa

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

That's like saying that Sheogorath is human because he portrays himself as human. Just because a Daedric Prince portrays themselves as male or female it doesn't make them male or female. They don't have genders they are more like natural forces. Molag Bal isn't a guy who likes domination, he is domination. It is the same way when looking at the Princes in the light of good or evil. They aren't good or evil, they just are. In that same way they don't have a gender they just are.

Aristocles22

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

That's like saying that Sheogorath is human because he portrays himself as human. Just because a Daedric Prince portrays themselves as male or female it doesn't make them male or female. They don't have genders they are more like natural forces. Molag Bal isn't a guy who likes domination, he is domination. It is the same way when looking at the Princes in the light of good or evil. They aren't good or evil, they just are. In that same way they don't have a gender they just are.

It is tricky to ascribe good and evil to the Daedra, but not impossible. Assuming that the Aedra define what morality is, we can assume that they are what we would call good, and their opposite would be bad. Now, that is a bit of an assumption, but not an unreasonable one to make, considering that no one wants to have the deeds inflicted on them that the Daedra regularly inflict on others, such as murder, destruction, enslavement, etc. Now, it is in the nature of the Daedra to do what they do, presumably with less free will or even no free will. Unlike mortals, many Daedra may not have a say in the matter; ie, they might legitimately be unable to stop themselves from bringing harm to others. This is also an assumption. It may also be possible that the Aedra find it hard/impossible to act against their own nature, but that's another story.

The best thing that I can say on the matter is that from a mortal and an Aedric-centered perspective, most of the Daedra are evil, and the ones which aren't are amoral at best. Not all mortals follow the Aedra (the eight and later nine divines), but even the ones which don't (Dunmer, Argonians, Orcs) still usually reason in terms of good and evil and generally consider the same things to be good and evil as most other races, with a few exceptions, such as slavery (Dunmer until very late in the 3rd era), polygamy (the Orcs), and legally-sanctioned murder (the Dunmer even into the 4th era).

TheShadowScout

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

That's like saying that Sheogorath is human because he portrays himself as human. Just because a Daedric Prince portrays themselves as male or female it doesn't make them male or female. They don't have genders they are more like natural forces. Molag Bal isn't a guy who likes domination, he is domination. It is the same way when looking at the Princes in the light of good or evil. They aren't good or evil, they just are. In that same way they don't have a gender they just are.

Actually the whole "male" thing is kinda big for Molag Bal - since one ofhis titles is also King of Ra... uhm... guess I can't really mention that one here, huh?
But the point is, Daedric Princes are basically creatures of pure spirit, if they have a "male" spirit, they are male, and if their spirit is more female, they are female... and some have more fluid spirits, and others have spirits that exceed human comprehension...

And if you want to be technical about it, then the daedric princes were there before gender became a thing with the mortal races, observed and learned about it during the eons and picked the one they felt most suitable to portray their nature as.

Also, Sheogorath is not portraying himself as human, not for longer then it serves one of his schemes anyhow. He is Sheogorath, and makes it quite evident that the humanoid form he takes is barely skin-deep... although there IS a method behind the madness, and he does take a humanoid form for good reason - after all, who are more susceptible to madness then sentient races, and the short lived men possibly moreso then the magical and longer lived mer... so, in some way sheogorath IS a twisted mirror of one aspect of humanity I suppose...
(as for him being human, well... remember the plot of the Shivering Isles and its conclusion? Just sayin... )

As for good and evil... that is always in the eye of the beholder.

Daedra are evil from a follower of the divines point of view, not so much from an ashlander or cultists point of view.
Cannibalism is evil from most peoples point of view, but good from a green pact Bosmers point of view.
Eating your veggies is good from most mothers point of view, but bad for the green pact bosmer I mentioned above.
Slavery is evil from many peoples point of view, but imperials and telvanni see it as normal and natural.
Murder is evil from most peoples point of view, but if you ask a follower of sithis you get a different point of view.
The divines are good from most peoples point of view, but daedric cultists and necromancers might disagree.
Madness is evil from normal peoples point of view, uncle Sheo of course has a different opinion.
Undeath is evil from a priest of Arkays point of view, but a vampire would beg to differ.
Law enforcement is good from a lawful persons point of view, thieves and assassins on the other hand see things a bit differently.
Necromancy is evil say most people, a necromancer has a different point of view.
Et cetera...
But this may not be a discussion we should rekindle, seeing how the last time we had one like it, the thread got locked in the end...

ItsMeToo

GimpyPorcupine wrote: »

Still can't figure out why the "females" have mammaries...

If they didn't have mammaries they would forget.

Luigi_Vampa

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

That's like saying that Sheogorath is human because he portrays himself as human. Just because a Daedric Prince portrays themselves as male or female it doesn't make them male or female. They don't have genders they are more like natural forces. Molag Bal isn't a guy who likes domination, he is domination. It is the same way when looking at the Princes in the light of good or evil. They aren't good or evil, they just are. In that same way they don't have a gender they just are.

Actually the whole "male" thing is kinda big for Molag Bal - since one ofhis titles is also King of Ra... uhm... guess I can't really mention that one here, huh?
But the point is, Daedric Princes are basically creatures of pure spirit, if they have a "male" spirit, they are male, and if their spirit is more female, they are female... and some have more fluid spirits, and others have spirits that exceed human comprehension...

And if you want to be technical about it, then the daedric princes were there before gender became a thing with the mortal races, observed and learned about it during the eons and picked the one they felt most suitable to portray their nature as.

Also, Sheogorath is not portraying himself as human, not for longer then it serves one of his schemes anyhow. He is Sheogorath, and makes it quite evident that the humanoid form he takes is barely skin-deep... although there IS a method behind the madness, and he does take a humanoid form for good reason - after all, who are more susceptible to madness then sentient races, and the short lived men possibly moreso then the magical and longer lived mer... so, in some way sheogorath IS a twisted mirror of one aspect of humanity I suppose...
(as for him being human, well... remember the plot of the Shivering Isles and its conclusion? Just sayin... )

As for good and evil... that is always in the eye of the beholder.

Daedra are evil from a follower of the divines point of view, not so much from an ashlander or cultists point of view.
Cannibalism is evil from most peoples point of view, but good from a green pact Bosmers point of view.
Eating your veggies is good from most mothers point of view, but bad for the green pact bosmer I mentioned above.
Slavery is evil from many peoples point of view, but imperials and telvanni see it as normal and natural.
Murder is evil from most peoples point of view, but if you ask a follower of sithis you get a different point of view.
The divines are good from most peoples point of view, but daedric cultists and necromancers might disagree.
Madness is evil from normal peoples point of view, uncle Sheo of course has a different opinion.
Undeath is evil from a priest of Arkays point of view, but a vampire would beg to differ.
Law enforcement is good from a lawful persons point of view, thieves and assassins on the other hand see things a bit differently.
Necromancy is evil say most people, a necromancer has a different point of view.
Et cetera...
But this may not be a discussion we should rekindle, seeing how the last time we had one like it, the thread got locked in the end...

You saying women can't r**e? You really want to go there? Anyway, the point is is that your are ascribing human characteristics on non human entities. What does it even mean to be a male or female deadric prince? What could human values mean to those that are not human?

And as for my good or evil comment. Deadric Princes are good or evil like a sunny day is good and a hurricane evil. They are what they are. They can't do anything different because their sphere of influence is their essence. Do you blame a fire for burning?

But this is quite the derail.

Mrsinister2

My argonian is a sexual Tyrannosaurus

Danikat

Aristocles22 wrote: »

The Argonians with mammaries are female; they are clearly the ones who lay the eggs. Even that quest in Stonefalls has a female's eggs as set of quest-specific items. Unfertilized, I assume. Like a hen who hasn't seen a rooster can still lay eggs, without chicks in them. What this means for female Argonians is best left unanswered, lest they keep getting "pregnant" every few months even without seeing a male.

That's not unusual. A lot of animals will produce eggs without mating, including humans, because they don't have a way to store male gametes (more commonly known by a word beginning with S which is censored on the forum) so the egg has to be there in advance, ready to be fertilised. Some animals will reabsorb it if it's not fertilised, other can't or don't for various reasons and so have to pass it. And again humans are one of those, but fortunately our eggs are a single cell so it's microscopic and mixed in with the wall of the uterus which is also shed from the body at the same time, so the egg isn't noticeable. So it's more the body preparing for pregnancy, and then scrapping those preparations and starting over than actually getting pregnant every 28 days.

One thing I'm not sure about is if argonians are like humans who go through that cycle continuously once they pass puberty, or if they're like some other animals which are only fertile once a year or under specific circumstances. Since the Hist are so tied up in their life cycle it might be something which the argonian or the Hist can 'activate' - so they only produce eggs at a time and place when they're likely to be able to find a mate and lay fertilised eggs. I seem to remember argonians have fairly elaborate mating rituals so it's possible they only produce eggs at that time.

TheShadowScout

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

TheShadowScout wrote: »

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

The deadric princes don't have genders.

Actually... that is not entirely correct.

Its more like... their gender is whatever they decide it to be.
Some prefer to portray themselves as male (Molag Bal, Sheogorath), some as female (Meridia, Azura) and some in-between, switching back and forth as they like (Boethiah, Mephala) while others are unspeakable tentacled things (Hermaeus Mora)...

That's like saying that Sheogorath is human because he portrays himself as human. Just because a Daedric Prince portrays themselves as male or female it doesn't make them male or female. They don't have genders they are more like natural forces. Molag Bal isn't a guy who likes domination, he is domination. It is the same way when looking at the Princes in the light of good or evil. They aren't good or evil, they just are. In that same way they don't have a gender they just are.

Actually the whole "male" thing is kinda big for Molag Bal - since one ofhis titles is also King of Ra... uhm... guess I can't really mention that one here, huh?
But the point is, Daedric Princes are basically creatures of pure spirit, if they have a "male" spirit, they are male, and if their spirit is more female, they are female... and some have more fluid spirits, and others have spirits that exceed human comprehension...

And if you want to be technical about it, then the daedric princes were there before gender became a thing with the mortal races, observed and learned about it during the eons and picked the one they felt most suitable to portray their nature as.

Also, Sheogorath is not portraying himself as human, not for longer then it serves one of his schemes anyhow. He is Sheogorath, and makes it quite evident that the humanoid form he takes is barely skin-deep... although there IS a method behind the madness, and he does take a humanoid form for good reason - after all, who are more susceptible to madness then sentient races, and the short lived men possibly moreso then the magical and longer lived mer... so, in some way sheogorath IS a twisted mirror of one aspect of humanity I suppose...
(as for him being human, well... remember the plot of the Shivering Isles and its conclusion? Just sayin... )

As for good and evil... that is always in the eye of the beholder.

Daedra are evil from a follower of the divines point of view, not so much from an ashlander or cultists point of view.
Cannibalism is evil from most peoples point of view, but good from a green pact Bosmers point of view.
Eating your veggies is good from most mothers point of view, but bad for the green pact bosmer I mentioned above.
Slavery is evil from many peoples point of view, but imperials and telvanni see it as normal and natural.
Murder is evil from most peoples point of view, but if you ask a follower of sithis you get a different point of view.
The divines are good from most peoples point of view, but daedric cultists and necromancers might disagree.
Madness is evil from normal peoples point of view, uncle Sheo of course has a different opinion.
Undeath is evil from a priest of Arkays point of view, but a vampire would beg to differ.
Law enforcement is good from a lawful persons point of view, thieves and assassins on the other hand see things a bit differently.
Necromancy is evil say most people, a necromancer has a different point of view.
Et cetera...
But this may not be a discussion we should rekindle, seeing how the last time we had one like it, the thread got locked in the end...

You saying women can't r**e? You really want to go there? Anyway, the point is is that your are ascribing human characteristics on non human entities. What does it even mean to be a male or female deadric prince? What could human values mean to those that are not human?

Ah, but they quite obviously "get inspired" by the mortal races, a lot. And when you imitate a mortal characteristic... then it says something about the one in question which aspect they choose to imitate, does it not? And if they pick one gender aspect, or another, or switch back and forth, or bypass the whole issue... yes? I mean, they -could- all have manifested as colored balls of light if they wanted to, but that they -choose- this or that form... says something about them, right?
Thus...
...we're back to "A Daedric princes gender is what they want it to be!" (Or maybe more accurately, what they feel best fits their nature )

As for the R thing... yeah, I know well enough it is possible, tho its still a rather hefty skew towards the other side. Even moreso when you get past the physical and get into energetic discussions... which is a way more interesting way to look at daedra, tho a bit too esotheric for many people.

Luigi_Vampa wrote: »

And as for my good or evil comment. Deadric Princes are good or evil like a sunny day is good and a hurricane evil. They are what they are. They can't do anything different because their sphere of influence is their essence. Do you blame a fire for burning?

And I say, they are what they are, as "evil" is always dependent on the point of view, and thus the question who or what is "evil" is dependent on who you ask.
But just because its subjective doesn't mean there is no "evil"... it just depends on the context the question is asked in.